Should I or should I not...

[KristainSC]

I think it's great that you have handled this problem the way you have, rather than taking the 'easy' option and just cheating on him. It's a shame that he's unlikely to be consensual or involved to any degree in your personal discovery, it could easily have lead to a closer, stronger relationship.

Thank you. It breaks my heart how he has handled it all, I will give him a little more time to think about how he responded but if he doesn’t realize how selfish he is being than i am not sure how much more I want to have the conversations. It’s on him now I’m afraid

 

[naughtymind]

Thank you. It breaks my heart how he has handled it all, I will give him a little more time to think about how he responded but if he doesn’t realize how selfish he is being than i am not sure how much more I want to have the conversations. It’s on him now I’m afraid

Really sorry for your whole situation Kristain. I don't know him, so I hate to presume too much, but based on your comments and perspective he does not sound like he's capable of caring for you. I don't mean physically nearly as much as I mean emotionally; if he's completely dismissive of your feelings and the difficult place you're in, and he's not willing to seek any counseling, then he is not treating you with the love that you deserve. I must disagree with your last comment though; I think it's really on you now. Sounds like you laid it all out there in plain language, and he gave you your answers.

If I were to hazard a guess, I suspect that his actions aren't due to a lack of love or compassion on his part; but rather due to a lack of ability to see past his own insecurities and suffering. He might even feel like the victim, and be wallowing in the fact that your needs are putting extra stress and strain on him, that this isn't his fault, etc. These are things that could possibly be sorted out with good communication, and counseling. He has to actually want it though, and it just doesn't sound like he's ready or able to see past his own issues. He may never be. At this point, I hope you start focusing on you; including reaching out to friends and family for emotional support, and seeking counseling yourself. I think he gave you his answers, and you have some difficult decisions to make. I think you're going to need more support than just the fine and thoughtful advice from the members of this thread.
Best of luck to you!

 

[CandK_inSE]

My wife is a member of an "ED Community" on Facebook. She joined it when I was going through my struggles. She's stayed on it and sometimes gives some advice or will commiserate with some of the women there. It also leads her to get hit on by trolls, but that's part of things like that...

Anyway, I told her about this thread because she tells me about what advice she gives to spouses of men with ED.

First thing she said is that this has gone on for far too long. In the beginning of things, she tells the women to loosen themselves up and make themselves an object of desire for their husband/boyfriend. Obviously, that's already happened here and that ship has sailed.

Second thing, the man NEEDS counseling/treatment. MOST of the time, if the man is willing, treatments will work to some degree, BUT he has to be willing to try. And in that trying, the spouse needs to be supportive. During this time, he also has to be responsive to her needs. He needs to use other body parts to satisfy her. He can't be a mopey bitch.

If he is NOT willing to try, the woman has to give him an ultimatum. My wife would never go outside of marriage, and she doesn't advise it, mainly because of her moral standing, BUT, if cheating can be proven, the woman will lose any advantage in a potential split/divorce. She says threatening to leave the relationship is a whole lot better than sneaking around in it.

All of that said, we are just amazed at the number of so called men out there who just don't care about sex. Do they not remember before they were married about what they had to do to get a girl/woman? Now you have one and you refuse to have sex with her? What the fuck is your problem? If you have a problem, SEEK HELP!

 

[KristainSC]

My wife is a member of an "ED Community" on Facebook. She joined it when I was going through my struggles. She's stayed on it and sometimes gives some advice or will commiserate with some of the women there. It also leads her to get hit on by trolls, but that's part of things like that...

Anyway, I told her about this thread because she tells me about what advice she gives to spouses of men with ED.

First thing she said is that this has gone on for far too long. In the beginning of things, she tells the women to loosen themselves up and make themselves an object of desire for their husband/boyfriend. Obviously, that's already happened here and that ship has sailed.

Second thing, the man NEEDS counseling/treatment. MOST of the time, if the man is willing, treatments will work to some degree, BUT he has to be willing to try. And in that trying, the spouse needs to be supportive. During this time, he also has to be responsive to her needs. He needs to use other body parts to satisfy her. He can't be a mopey bitch.

If he is NOT willing to try, the woman has to give him an ultimatum. My wife would never go outside of marriage, and she doesn't advise it, mainly because of her moral standing, BUT, if cheating can be proven, the woman will lose any advantage in a potential split/divorce. She says threatening to leave the relationship is a whole lot better than sneaking around in it.

All of that said, we are just amazed at the number of so called men out there who just don't care about sex. Do they not remember before they were married about what they had to do to get a girl/woman? Now you have one and you refuse to have sex with her? What the fuck is your problem? If you have a problem, SEEK HELP!

Thank you and your wife for that advice, I agree wholeheartedly and have reached the breaking point, after us talking for hours last night and his refusal to empathize with me was very telling to me

 

[ToPleaseHim]

So sorry to hear it went that way, Krista.

 

[KristainSC]

So sorry to hear it went that way, Krista.

Me too but thank you for the thoughts. Life can be really frustrating at times

 

[naughtymind]

Thank you and your wife for that advice, I agree wholeheartedly and have reached the breaking point, after us talking for hours last night and his refusal to empathize with me was very telling to me

It sounds like he's being defensive? Sometimes when we get backed into a corner of insecurities, people can be pretty irrational and petty. At the same time, it sounds like you're seeing him in a true light here; this won't be the only crisis he goes through, so there is a good chance he will deal with future crisis in similarly dysfunctional ways...unless he can get some help finding better ways to deal with his issues. We don't all get a complete user manual growing up, especially where relationships are concerned, and aren't necessarily able to just sort it all out on our own sometimes.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

My wife is a member of an "ED Community" on Facebook. She joined it when I was going through my struggles. She's stayed on it and sometimes gives some advice or will commiserate with some of the women there. It also leads her to get hit on by trolls, but that's part of things like that...

Anyway, I told her about this thread because she tells me about what advice she gives to spouses of men with ED.

First thing she said is that this has gone on for far too long. In the beginning of things, she tells the women to loosen themselves up and make themselves an object of desire for their husband/boyfriend. Obviously, that's already happened here and that ship has sailed.

Second thing, the man NEEDS counseling/treatment. MOST of the time, if the man is willing, treatments will work to some degree, BUT he has to be willing to try. And in that trying, the spouse needs to be supportive. During this time, he also has to be responsive to her needs. He needs to use other body parts to satisfy her. He can't be a mopey bitch.

If he is NOT willing to try, the woman has to give him an ultimatum. My wife would never go outside of marriage, and she doesn't advise it, mainly because of her moral standing, BUT, if cheating can be proven, the woman will lose any advantage in a potential split/divorce. She says threatening to leave the relationship is a whole lot better than sneaking around in it.

All of that said, we are just amazed at the number of so called men out there who just don't care about sex. Do they not remember before they were married about what they had to do to get a girl/woman? Now you have one and you refuse to have sex with her? What the fuck is your problem? If you have a problem, SEEK HELP!

While I absolutely agree with your advice, I wanted to point out that this bolded part will vary by state. I don’t advocate for cheating, either, and I’m very well aware of how much additional pain is inflicted by infidelity. In a No Fault state, though, it wouldn’t be considered in a divorce.

 

[CandK_inSE]

While I absolutely agree with your advice, I wanted to point out that this bolded part will vary by state. I don’t advocate for cheating, either, and I’m very well aware of how much additional pain is inflicted by infidelity. In a No Fault state, though, it wouldn’t be considered in a divorce.

True.

We live in North Carolina, where there is something called "alienation of affection" still on the books.

It's a well-intentioned, however, extremely archaic law intended to stop infidelity. Its used here if there is any kind of a substantial marital estate and the cases can get very messy.

Neither of us know what the laws are in South Carolina.

We both have friends that have gone through it in NC. From what we've gathered is, the divorce can be filed, and as long as it isn't contested, it's granted with no real arguments. However, if the other party contests, seems like anything is on the table.

 

[davion2308]

Nothing else?

There's nothing else that he can do to please you, like go down on you or wear a strap-on or use toys or tools or gadgets or try anything else?

If it has to be penis-in-vagina sex and he refuses to do it, you need to voice your concerns and frustrations. Don't ultimatum the guy and don't threaten or offer options. Tell him how you feel and your experience so far and ask him what he feels is a reasonable solution that satisfies you and doesn't expose him to further embarrassment.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

There's nothing else that he can do to please you, like go down on you or wear a strap-on or use toys or tools or gadgets or try anything else?

If it has to be penis-in-vagina sex and he refuses to do it, you need to voice your concerns and frustrations. Don't ultimatum the guy and don't threaten or offer options. Tell him how you feel and your experience so far and ask him what he feels is a reasonable solution that satisfies you and doesn't expose him to further embarrassment.

Have you read the thread?!? You seem to be missing details if you think she’s demanding PIV sex and nothing else will do. Your tone is off.

 

[NightL]

Don't ultimatum the guy and don't threaten or offer options.

whoa - why do I feel like you have just turned this around to your own insecurities?

 

[KristainSC]

whoa - why do I feel like you have just turned this around to your own insecurities?

It did seem that way right?

I didn’t and never would give him an ultimatum. Have never claimed to handle this perfectly but I’ve been so patient and comforting with him and it’s almost like he resents me for it

 

[ChuckandAndrea]

Thank you for this and we were up all hours last night having this conversation. He has been firm that he will not do counseling which I told him tells me he is not interested in me or my feelings. He was selfish and dismissive of my needs throughout the entire conversation. I am pretty certain last night was a bit of a breaking point, I was careful with my words and was very empathetic with him but he simply chose not to consider nor care for my needs. That was very telling for me.

Be careful here. This isn't just about you. He's going through a lot too. He's not handling it correctly, but his insecurities are the source of that reaction. He's exposed, he's raw, and it's human nature for him to become defensive.

Don't jump to conclusions about his reaction. When confronted with very difficult things people often don't react in the best ways. Its out there, you've broken the ice, give him a little time to settle down and approach the situation again in a few days. A simple, "that conversation didn't go the way I hoped it would and I hope to continue it when you're ready" would go a long way.

Your time isn't infinite, but if you're serious about saving your marriage you cannot expect issues this significant to be ironed out according to plan after the first big conversation. All that the initial conversation told you is that he's super sensitive about it. The next steps over the coming weeks will really tell you. Tread lightly, give space, but don't ignore it. Situation is super delicate right now...

 

[KristainSC]

Be careful here. This isn't just about you. He's going through a lot too. He's not handling it correctly, but his insecurities are the source of that reaction. He's exposed, he's raw, and it's human nature for him to become defensive.

Don't jump to conclusions about his reaction. When confronted with very difficult things people often don't react in the best ways. Its out there, you've broken the ice, give him a little time to settle down and approach the situation again in a few days. A simple, "that conversation didn't go the way I hoped it would and I hope to continue it when you're ready" would go a long way.

Your time isn't infinite, but if you're serious about saving your marriage you cannot expect issues this significant to be ironed out according to plan after the first big conversation. All that the initial conversation told you is that he's super sensitive about it. The next steps over the coming weeks will really tell you. Tread lightly, give space, but don't ignore it. Situation is super delicate right now...

Thank you for this reminder, you are right, I will continue to be patient. It’s been a long 2+ years already...

 

[NightL]

Try in your discussions to use "I" and "my" as much as possible when talking of how this situation impacts you and your feelings. It pulls the recipient into listening (hopefully). "You" and "your" can build instant walls.

"It’s been a long 2+ years already..." - be patient for another two years? Four?...

I still strongly suggest you attend sex therapist counselling, even if on your own. You need a chance to talk through the impact of this on yourself, what it would take to improve things within the relationship. What the deal breakers are. The consequences. Options.

You are entitled to look after your own feelings, take care of yourself. If you are to hang in there without returned affection and intimacy you are allowed to define for yourself the conditions. If you are not happy within yourself then it becomes very hard to love. Very hard to care about someone who offers no care in return, especially if they also give up care for themselves.

Marriage is not a contract to be miserable.

If "How can we work at this together?" is met with avoidance then you are entitled to announce "I am going to work toward happiness, I am inviting you along to participate in this journey, but I will be proceeding on this discovery."

 

[KristainSC]

Try in your discussions to use "I" and "my" as much as possible when talking of how this situation impacts you and your feelings. It pulls the recipient into listening (hopefully). "You" and "your" can build instant walls.

"It’s been a long 2+ years already..." - be patient for another two years? Four?...

I still strongly suggest you attend sex therapist counselling, even if on your own. You need a chance to talk through the impact of this on yourself, what it would take to improve things within the relationship. What the deal breakers are. The consequences. Options.

You are entitled to look after your own feelings, take care of yourself. If you are to hang in there without returned affection and intimacy you are allowed to define for yourself the conditions. If you are not happy within yourself then it becomes very hard to love. Very hard to care about someone who offers no care in return, especially if they also give up care for themselves.

Marriage is not a contract to be miserable.

If "How can we work at this together?" is met with avoidance then you are entitled to announce "I am going to work toward happiness, I am inviting you along to participate in this journey, but I will be proceeding on this discovery."

Thank you. We had another long discussion last night and he opened up a little for the first time which was nice but still frustrating because he has all but closed the door on counseling for him anyway. I told him that I may still consider it for myself and that I’d love for him to come along with me and left that door open for him.

 

[ChuckandAndrea]

Thank you. We had another long discussion last night and he opened up a little for the first time which was nice but still frustrating because he has all but closed the door on counseling for him anyway. I told him that I may still consider it for myself and that I’d love for him to come along with me and left that door open for him.

Progress is progress. Each of you are going to have a different pace for these things. Keeping doors open > closing off options... especially now.

Keep plugging away. Expect setbacks, but two steps forward and one step back is still progress.

 

[PapaDan]

I thought I would add my comment.

Not trying to offend you or tell you how to live your life, but perhaps you need to take a step back and take a look at what has happened from his viewpoint.

What you told him was: You aren't being fulfilled sexually and you need a man.

What he heard was: My marriage has blown up and my wife is leaving me for another man. And now he is in shock!

When anyone is faced with a crisis like this, they, (all of us), go through he four stages of grief: Denial, Anger, Depression and finally, Acceptance.
It happens to all of us.

When you told him that his marriage had fallen apart, and you were leaving him for another man, (from his viewpoint), he went into denial, and tried to make it go away by telling you to go fuck somebody else, (or whatever he said), then it appears by the time he got home, he was in anger.

I suspect at this point, he is some where between anger and depression.

To get to the point where you want to be, "acceptance", you are going to have to remain calm and be the strong one, because at the point, he can't.

You cannot let this turn into a pissing contest, because no one ever won a pissing contest in a marriage. When a marriage turns into a pissing contest, it just as often as not, ends up in divorce.

A divorce may sound like an option, but consider what a divorce is for a middle-age woman. It can be tough starting over, and then, who are your children going to blame for breaking up their parents marriage. Children, (even when grown), see it differently than either you or your husband.

When a couple reaches a crisis like this, they rarely think of their children, but consider this, when you reach the autumn of your life, you will need them just as they needed you when they were growing up. (If you have children)

Also consider if this is left unresolved, what you marriage will be like going forward. Pandora's box has been opened, and now it has to be resolved one way or the other.

Soon he will reach depression, and when he does, stand your ground, but treat him with compassion.

And hopefully, in the not to distant future, he will reach acceptance, and when he does, that's when he is ready to talk. But not until that point.

What he will decide, I have no idea, but you have waited over two years, and what you do in the coming days/weeks may dictate how you will live the rest of your life.

Just my opinion

I have said my peace, and now let the trolls begin.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I thought I would add my comment.

Not trying to offend you or tell you how to live your life, but perhaps you need to take a step back and take a look at what has happened from his viewpoint.

What you told him was: You aren't being fulfilled sexually and you need a man.

What he heard was: My marriage has blown up and my wife is leaving me for another man. And now he is in shock!

When anyone is faced with a crisis like this, they, (all of us), go through he four stages of grief: Denial, Anger, Depression and finally, Acceptance.
It happens to all of us.

When you told him that his marriage had fallen apart, and you were leaving him for another man, (from his viewpoint), he went into denial, and tried to make it go away by telling you to go fuck somebody else, (or whatever he said), then it appears by the time he got home, he was in anger.

I suspect at this point, he is some where between anger and depression.

To get to the point where you want to be, "acceptance", you are going to have to remain calm and be the strong one, because at the point, he can't.

You cannot let this turn into a pissing contest, because no one ever won a pissing contest in a marriage. When a marriage turns into a pissing contest, it just as often as not, ends up in divorce.

A divorce may sound like an option, but consider what a divorce is for a middle-age woman. It can be tough starting over, and then, who are your children going to blame for breaking up their parents marriage. Children, (even when grown), see it differently than either you or your husband.

When a couple reaches a crisis like this, they rarely think of their children, but consider this, when you reach the autumn of your life, you will need them just as they needed you when they were growing up. (If you have children)

Also consider if this is left unresolved, what you marriage will be like going forward. Pandora's box has been opened, and now it has to be resolved one way or the other.

Soon he will reach depression, and when he does, stand your ground, but treat him with compassion.

And hopefully, in the not to distant future, he will reach acceptance, and when he does, that's when he is ready to talk. But not until that point.

What he will decide, I have no idea, but you have waited over two years, and what you do in the coming days/weeks may dictate how you will live the rest of your life.

Just my opinion

I have said my peace, and now let the trolls begin.

You make some valid points, especially about treating her husband with compassion. She’s given every indication that she is doing just that.

Some of your inferences about his reactions are definitely projections and connecting dots that aren’t there.

Further, as a divorced woman with a lot of divorced friends, my experience is that people ALWAYS think of their children during a divorce. Also, women are often happier after divorce. Your “imagine what divorce is for a middle-age woman” doesn’t sit right.

https://bestlifeonline.com/women-happier-after-divorce-survey/

https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/voice...are-happily-divorced-and-wont-be-repartnering

https://www.aarp.org/research/topics/life/info-2014/divorce.html

I 100% advocate for doing everything possible to salvage the relationship. But if only one person is trying, then it’s absolutely a good decision to consider a different future.

 

[NightL]

Just my opinion

as the strains of "Stand by your man" fade into the distance.

Tell us more about your divorce PapaDan. You seem to be still hurting. But seriously, how did you fail your marriage?

 

[ChuckandAndrea]

as the strains of "Stand by your man" fade into the distance.

Tell us more about your divorce PapaDan. You seem to be still hurting. But seriously, how did you fail your marriage?

I'd rather hear about the failures in your life that brings about such a thinly veiled shitty response to a perfectly reasonable opinion.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I'd rather hear about the failures in your life that brings about such a thinly veiled shitty response to a perfectly reasonable opinion.

PapaDan’s response, while likely well-intended, is definitely filling in a lot of blanks with details likely from his own life. I didn’t read it as perfectly reasonable. It read as shaming the OP to me.

 

[ChuckandAndrea]

PapaDan’s response, while likely well-intended, is definitely filling in a lot of blanks with details likely from his own life. I didn’t read it as perfectly reasonable. It read as shaming the OP to me.

Shaming? I'm not seeing jt.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

Shaming? I'm not seeing jt.

She is not responsible for her husband’s feelings. There’s a lot of manipulation going on in a post that’s providing such highly detailed internal dialogue projected onto the husband. Unless that person is the husband, he can’t possibly know the things he’s saying. They are written as certainties, not suggestions.

Also, the fear-mongering of the plight of the middle aged divorced woman? Come on! As a middle-aged divorced woman with lots of middle-aged divorced woman friends, I don’t know one person who regrets the divorce. I’m sure there are plenty who do, but regret and strife are also not a certainty. It’s easy to find a lot of articles that suggest women are happier after. That said, divorce is hard, even if you’re ready for it, even if you’re sure. But, it’s more than possible to be happier and more fulfilled after. Hell, there are studies suggesting the happiest women are those who never marry. This does not surprise me at all.