Sleeping on the Wing Challenge: Vladimir Mayakowski (1893-1930)

[Eluard]

Hey, howsabout someone posting a poem here.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

I would, but mine are still in process. But I'll be brave, to get the thread back round...

How bout a couple of snips out of one of the rough drafts? Shred away, kids.

...

I can't control
the red stilettos
favored by my guardian angel
she dresses as she likes
and she does not help me
with you.

it is fitting a waterfall
into a kitchen faucet
the pavement rumbles and explodes
it is putting a grenade into a shoebox
it is asking the volcano to fuel a car
just write
just write about it and the volcano
says yes, yes yes I will but what
will I do with the rest of it? What
can hold it? Where can it go?

it peels paint, it breaks glass
makes speakers squeal with feedback,
it is a hard arrow out of my chest
teeth-grinding, crawling like
horns or thorns across my shoulders
lightbulbs blow and sparks jump
and my back is like clenched teeth
and I am a river all day

O god
we will sit with a table between us
o god
we will embrace twice, arriving and parting
and our pelvises will not touch
and it will all go on in midair above us
and we should probably pretend
not to see it.

 

[Senna Jawa]

I've heard of Mayakowski (or Mayakovsky, as his name is sometimes spelled) [...]

From A Cloud in Trousers

The central + the depressing meaning of English cloud is given by Russian word tucha (Polish chmura). Majakowski (Mayakovskij, ...) used a different Russian word oblako (or obłok in Polish, pronounced obwok or obwock), which is a small white cloud in a nice sunny weather. Thus the image induced by the metaphoric phrase cloud in trousers is much more delicate and poetic than the straight English phrase suggests. Imagine an ice cream sticking out of an ice cream cone. Now think about a big man body hovering above his pants. Majakowski was a big man but he says that he is just a gentle cloud in pants. Of course, if you are in a naughty mood then you may think (imagine ) of a small cloud inside the man's trousers--that would be a secondary association. It does not work with the word "cloud" while it does very well with the original oblako.

The phrase was used independently by two Russian poets. The other one was known for and fond of his trousers. He had exclaimed: Majakowski has stolen my trousers!

 

[Angeline]

The central + the depressing meaning of English cloud is given by Russian word tucha (Polish chmura). Majakowski (Mayakovskij, ...) used a different Russian word oblako (or obłok in Polish, pronounced obwok or obwock), which is a small white cloud in a nice sunny weather. Thus the image induced by the metaphoric phrase cloud in trousers is much more delicate and poetic than the straight English phrase suggests. Imagine an ice cream sticking out of an ice cream cone. Now think about a big man body hovering above his pants. Majakowski was a big man but he says that he is just a gentle cloud in pants. Of course, if you are in a naughty mood then you may think (imagine ) of a small cloud inside the man's trousers--that would be a secondary association. It does not work with the word "cloud" while it does very well with the original oblako.

The phrase was used independently by two Russian poets. The other one was known for and fond of his trousers. He had exclaimed: Majakowski has stolen my trousers!

What do you think, in general, of this translation? I thought even the little snipple of the poem here was better than what's in my book. You know perhaps of another translation of it that I could read online? And I already thought the image of a cloud in trousers is a delicate, etheral image.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Make your poem full of streets, hotels, subways, factories, bridges, airports, smokestacks, and electricity.

Literotica messed up the format of most of my poems, but I hope that they are still readable. (It's ironic since I pay attention to the look of the poem more than most anybody).

Only some of the poems listed below use energetic language, the other are peaceful - it's the other side of the same coin.

monk
San Jose
STREETCAR ISLANDS [the street's...]
a song of no bandwidth
life is a private party
angel of neutrality
digressing
checkered board
san jose blues
september
warsaw
life is something else
time on your hands
the cities of the city
​

and going away from the city:

Yom Kippur
​

 

[Angeline]

Literotica messed up the format of most of my poems, but I hope that they are still readable. (It's ironic since I pay attention to the look of the poem more than most anybody).

Only some of the poems listed below use energetic language, the other are peaceful - it's the other side of the same coin.

monk
San Jose
STREETCAR ISLANDS [the street's...]
a song of no bandwidth
life is a private party
angel of neutrality
digressing
checkered board
san jose blues
september
warsaw
life is something else
time on your hands
the cities of the city
​

and going away from the city:

Yom Kippur
​

the cities of the city is my favorite of yours, I think. It's the one I always remember, and I bet you remember why. Butterfly time. A very sweet and human interlude in a clanging city of a poem.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

If you are his friend then why are you complementing him for a pathetically stupid text? As a friend you should treat it with a merciful silence, like it never happened.

Because I happened to like it .. I've seen you lash out before but was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt because so many people I love and respect on here think you are worth it and I have good manners so if you have a beef with someone kindly don't presume my likes and dislikes are yours. I apologise to Angeline for even dragging this into her thread and let this be the end of it

 

[Senna Jawa]

[...] if you have a beef with someone [...]

But I don't, and it is wrong of you to imply otherwise.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Just as it was wrong of you to imply I was being sarcastic? I beg your pardon for my implication .... as I said before I have good manners

 

[Angeline]

Because I happened to like it .. I've seen you lash out before but was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt because so many people I love and respect on here think you are worth it and I have good manners so if you have a beef with someone kindly don't presume my likes and dislikes are yours. I apologise to Angeline for even dragging this into her thread and let this be the end of it

None needed UYS.

 

[Eluard]

None needed UYS.

IMO apologies ARE needed, but they should be flowing entirely in the other direction.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Just as it was wrong of you to imply I was being sarcastic?

How could I know?!

 

[Senna Jawa]

Intentions, intentions... I try to be nice and ... Let me try to clear it. I don't know if there is still a chance. This world is nothing but (irrational) chaos.

A new participant, Eluard, wrote a tasteless, stupid drivel. Fine. Each participant has the privilege to write whatever. I am nice, I don't say anything. But then another new participant, UYS, wrote how the poor guy has written like a true artist, or something sounding equally nasty. So I try to protect Eluard. He intellectually shits above his asshole, but, as I told UYS, it's not a reason to be sarcastic, just leave the poor guy alone. Now it turns out that UYS is unbelievably naive, that she meant what she wrote. But how could I know?!?! So now all of you will have your day attacking me. Fine. Whatever. And on the top of everything, the new guy, that Eluard, turned out to be not just another innocent, naive person, but a snobbish, rude jerk. He does not have a clue about poetry but he talks through his nose so well

OK guys, jump at me. However, don't we owe any respect and gratitude to the artists of the past? You may dislike me, but why at the expense of Vladimir M.?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Just because you immediately jump to the conclusion that comments are sarcasm please don't judge me by your own standards I would rather be deemed naive than drop mine

 

[Liar]

A new participant, Eluard, wrote a distasteful, stupid drivel.

Your opinion is once again, duly noted. I'm just curious why you can't stand for it, but instead fallaciously treat your point of view as inarguable?

OK guys, jump at me.

...you say, thus effectively giving you the monopoly on ad hominem.


Anyhoo...

My own distasteful, stupid drivel will be posted tomorrow night. Because in less than an hour, I expect to be too drunk to type. Good night and god bless, poets.

 

[Senna Jawa]

...you say, thus effectively giving you the monopoly on ad hominem.

...you say, thus effectively giving you the monopoly on raping orphans and stealing money from them.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

If everyone is this much in the mood to shred something, how bout the poem I put up, as requested?


bj

 

[Senna Jawa]

If everyone is this much in the mood to shred something, how bout the poem I put up, as requested?

bj

The maintenance manager woke me up this morning, and I had to empty the bathroom sink neighborhood so that he could replace the sink by a new one. I had only 3h of sleep, so it was cruel. Now I am still not myself, and I will go soon to do my daily chores and routines. But let me write a bit in a hurry anyway.

We have here a lot of challenges (and Angeline is a big part of it). You could say that it's great. I'd say, it could be better. It seems like around here the quick and ad hoc challenges provide 90% of the stimulus and motivation for writing poems, instead of just 5-10%. It's good to react with quick poems but not when such poems become it, and when they are not based on something more profound.

More than one of the Sleeping on the wing challenges could provide an excellent start for something good happening here, if there was just one of them (but please, not Emily Dickinson, unless for fun exclusively). When you have one after another then they become meaningless hence harmful (doing poetry in a shallow way is poetically harmful).

Valadimir Mayakovsky provides an especially interesting material to study and hence to increase the poetic sensibility, granted that you get deep into this material. Only then it may have a positive impact on your own poetry. Otherwise you have no chance, your reaction will be shallow.

Yes, we may discuss your poem write away but then we will not take advantage of Majakowski/Mayakovsky. The duscussion would have very little to do with him or with anything. It's predictable that unpredictable can write, that her phrase is something to be respected... but we will not get anything essentially new.

If we are even half serious we need to appreciate the historical background, the character of the region, the Majakowski's own historical time, and also the man himself.

I'll have to go soon. But let me start (even if I never finish )

There was centuries ago a great knight story in old Slavic, which Russians treat as their own. Then for centuries there was nothing. Actually, there was no Russia. The territory was under the Mongol (Tatar) brutal occupation. That's why to this day the human life there is not a big deal. At one time, after the 300 hundred years of Mongolian occupation, when Polish troops went to Moscow, none of the Polish aristocrats cared to become a Russian leader. Soon Russia became a political and military power. But their first poet and the father of Russian poetry was Alexander Pushkin (who was one quarter black). Pushkin was formally a romantic poem because these were times of romanticism. In reality, if you read him carefully, you will see that he was very rational (and with a wonderful sense of humor). Since Pushkin, the Russian poetry became strong. Not too much younger than Pushkin was a very interesting and modern poet (ahead of his time) -- Tutchev, recognized and appreciated by Pushkin but not known to the great majority of even educated Russians. Thus the next truly popular Russian poet was Lermontov - a true romantic.

Now there is an important moment: both Pushkin and later Lermontov died in a duel, which pressed into Russian poetry its tragic stamp. Later it would be Yesenin i Majakowski who would die of their own hand (they had committed suicide). That's already four greatest Russian poets dying tragically. Then consider the Stalin's terror.

I need to go. There is quite a bit of fascinating material before one should attempt to sleep on Majakowski's wing. Why, it would be nice, for the sake of reference point and to get the fuller spectrum of the world poetry, to have a look at the Polish poetry in parallel, it would give a partial bridge between the East and the West (but avoid any simplification, I said partial). Then you can feel the Russian poetry still better. And of course the man himself is a crucial chapter of this study.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

o silly me.

I thought we were just supposed to try writing poems.

Well, I'll do better next week.

bj

 

[Angeline]

The maintenance manager woke me up this morning, and I had to empty the bathroom sink neighborhood so that he could replace the sink by a new one. I had only 3h of sleep, so it was cruel. Now I am still not myself, and I will go soon to do my daily chores and routines. But let me write a bit in a hurry anyway.

We have here a lot of challenges (and Angeline is a big part of it). You could say that it's great. I'd say, it could be better. It seems like around here the quick and ad hoc challenges provide 90% of the stimulus and motivation for writing poems, instead of just 5-10%. It's good to react with quick poems but not when such poems become it, and when they are not based on something more profound.

More than one of the Sleeping on the wing challenges could provide an excellent start for something good happening here, if there was just one of them (but please, not Emily Dickinson, unless for fun exclusively). When you have one after another then they become meaningless hence harmful (doing poetry in a shallow way is poetically harmful).

Valadimir Mayakovsky provides an especially interesting material to study and hence to increase the poetic sensibility, granted that you get deep into this material. Only then it may have a positive impact on your own poetry. Otherwise you have no chance, your reaction will be shallow.

Yes, we may discuss your poem write away but then we will not take advantage of Majakowski/Mayakovsky. The duscussion would have very little to do with him or with anything. It's predictable that unpredictable can write, that her phrase is something to be respected... but we will not get anything essentially new.

If we are even half serious we need to appreciate the historical background, the character of the region, the Majakowski's own historical time, and also the man himself.

I'll have to go soon. But let me start (even if I never finish )

There was centuries ago a great knight story in old Slavic, which Russians treat as their own. Then for centuries there was nothing. Actually, there was no Russia. The territory was under the Mongol (Tatar) brutal occupation. That's why to this day the human life there is not a big deal. At one time, after the 300 hundred years of Mongolian occupation, when Polish troops went to Moscow, none of the Polish aristocrats cared to become a Russian leader. Soon Russia became a political and military power. But their first poet and the father of Russian poetry was Alexander Pushkin (who was one quarter black). Pushkin was formally a romantic poem because these were times of romanticism. In reality, if you read him carefully, you will see that he was very rational (and with a wonderful sense of humor). Since Pushkin, the Russian poetry became strong. Not too much younger than Pushkin was a very interesting and modern poet (ahead of his time) -- Tutchev, recognized and appreciated by Pushkin but not known to the great majority of even educated Russians. Thus the next truly popular Russian poet was Lermontov - a true romantic.

Now there is an important moment: both Pushkin and later Lermontov died in a duel, which pressed into Russian poetry its tragic stamp. Later it would be Yesenin i Majakowski who would die of their own hand (they had committed suicide). That's already four greatest Russian poets dying tragically. Then consider the Stalin's terror.

I need to go. There is quite a bit of fascinating material before one should attempt to sleep on Majakowski's wing. Why, it would be nice, for the sake of reference point and to get the fuller spectrum of the world poetry, to have a look at the Polish poetry in parallel, it would give a partial bridge between the East and the West (but avoid any simplification, I said partial). Then you can feel the Russian poetry still better. And of course the man himself is a crucial chapter of this study.

You know me pretty well by now. You know that I am always interested in learning. I'm sure you can find a hundred reasons why I go about it the wrong way, and I'm used to this from you, because I also know you need to put what you want to share in perspective. That's good, as far as I'm concerned because I do read and think about what you have to say, and in my own way I try to learn from it. On reading Mayakovsky, I found him boastful and childish and brazen and outrageous and very funny. I feel like I'm seeing the beginnings of postmodernism that I think have influenced the modern beat poets and the New York School and many others. So you tell my, my deal Wlod, what I need to know. I'm listening.

 

[Liar]

...you say, thus effectively giving you the monopoly on raping orphans and stealing money from them.

Sounds inefficient. Orphans rarely have any money worth stealing.

 

[Senna Jawa]

[...] I'm used to this from you, [...]

omg! - it sounds like i am a monster!

On reading Mayakovsky, I found him boastful and childish and brazen and outrageous and very funny.

Wow! Angeline, super! Just don't stop (there is more to it). You have the distance which Russians in general don't. But then, they are not necessary professionally into literature. They pay more attention to other aspects.

On the other hand, do remember that Majakowski committed his suicide at the age when men are basically already past the suicide prone time - he was 36 at the time.

I feel like I'm seeing the beginnings of postmodernism that I think have influenced the modern beat poets and the New York School and many others. So you tell my, my deal Wlod, what I need to know. I'm listening.

deal Wlod -- let me think about this alliteration

Whether or not Russian futurists literally affected the Western poetry (perhaps not too much, next to nothing), one may still analyze the evolution of poetry itself (i.e. poems without any context outside the artistic), regardless of any physical contacts. Most likely it was Russian ballet and music and prose which had and have truly impressed West, and not Russian (or any non-Western) poetry. It's only natural.

But isn't it sad? And think that Polish poetry is at least as strong, perhaps clearly stronger, more mature, than Russian even if you disregard the great Boleslaw Lesmian (virtually not known to West despite being the greatest poet since Du Fu; ironically, if Lesmian is known in Russia, then as a Russian poet! Either way, he is unknown outside Poland).

Best regards,

 

[Senna Jawa]

Sounds inefficient. Orphans rarely have any money worth stealing.

Don't be so greedy!

 

[Senna Jawa]

o silly me.

o silly me, I would swear that you're ironic or even sarcastic - but now I know better, you are dead serious

***
***

I thought we were just supposed to try writing poems.

Is it possible to "just write a poem"?--perhaps but I don't know. I know that even when writing light, humorous poems, intensity helps.

***
***

Anyway, what is phrase "supposed to" doing among poets?

 

[Angeline]

omg! - it sounds like i am a monster!

You are sometimes, but I love you anyway. Much too late for me to turn back now.

Wow! Angeline, super! Just don't stop (there is more to it). You have the distance which Russians in general don't. But then, they are not necessary professionally into literature. They pay more attention to other aspects.

On the other hand, do remember that Majakowski committed his suicide at the age when men are basically already past the suicide prone time - he was 36 at the time.

I have to read more about him to understand all this better. I don't know what the life expectancy was, on average, in his time and place. And I suspect understanding his politics better--and the backdrop of pre- and post-revolution-era Russia--would help a lot, too.

deal Wlod -- let me think about this alliteration

[It could be your new alt!]

Whether or not Russian futurists literally affected the Western poetry (perhaps not too much, next to nothing), one may still analyze the evolution of poetry itself (i.e. poems without any context outside the artistic), regardless of any physical contacts. Most likely it was Russian ballet and music and prose which had and have truly impressed West, and not Russian (or any non-Western) poetry. It's only natural.

[For me, reading Mayakovsky two weeks after Frank O'Hara, there's something I see in O'Hara's poetry that may or may not be derivative, but I don't recall seeing this kind of freshness and honesty, maybe a lack of fear of being funny or absurd, that I don't see in other poetry (certainly not other Western poetry) before then. I wonder too how much all of it appeals to me because there is something so essentially Eastern European in it, the humor especially, that feels familiar to me.]

But isn't it sad? And think that Polish poetry is at least as strong, perhaps clearly stronger, more mature, than Russian even if you disregard the great Boleslaw Lesmian (virtually not known to West despite being the greatest poet since Du Fu; ironically, if Lesmian is known in Russia, then as a Russian poet! Either way, he is unknown outside Poland).

Best regards,

Well you know these poets, so tell me where to read them smarty pants.