Sleeping on the Wing Challenge: Vladimir Mayakowski (1893-1930)

[Eluard]

Intentions, intentions... I try to be nice and ... Let me try to clear it. I don't know if there is still a chance. This world is nothing but (irrational) chaos.

A new participant, Eluard, wrote a tasteless, stupid drivel. Fine. Each participant has the privilege to write whatever. I am nice, I don't say anything. But then another new participant, UYS, wrote how the poor guy has written like a true artist, or something sounding equally nasty. So I try to protect Eluard. He intellectually shits above his asshole, but, as I told UYS, it's not a reason to be sarcastic, just leave the poor guy alone. Now it turns out that UYS is unbelievably naive, that she meant what she wrote. But how could I know?!?! So now all of you will have your day attacking me. Fine. Whatever. And on the top of everything, the new guy, that Eluard, turned out to be not just another innocent, naive person, but a snobbish, rude jerk. He does not have a clue about poetry but he talks through his nose so well

OK guys, jump at me. However, don't we owe any respect and gratitude to the artists of the past? You may dislike me, but why at the expense of Vladimir M.?

Physician heal thyself.

Try reading the drivel that you write with the same high standards that you pretend to apply to others. You'll shoot yourself in the head that very day.

Or at least stop giving us your anti-hypochondria — where you pretend to be well. (I can spot mental disease like yours a mile off.)

Oh — and one other thing: don't try hiding behind a woman again. If you have something to say to me then try being a man and saying it directly to me. My politeness in the past has been ignoring you as a buffoon: don't expect that in the future.

 

[Eluard]

Wikipedia claims that Mayakovsky inspired no literary followers. I don't think that's true. I think he was the real inspiration behind the street poetry of the Seventies, which was always 85% agit-prop. Mayakovsky's For the Voice is poetry to be declaimed on the street.

 

[Senna Jawa]

[self-pumping garbage].

It does not matter what a pompous ass like you says. You're on my ignore list.

 

[Eluard]

It does not matter what a pompous ass like you says. You're on my ignore list.

This pompous ass will kick your pompous ass all around town if you beat up on one more newbie. Then your alcoholism will REALLY have a reason to shift into high gear. Remember it well.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Now there is an important moment: both Pushkin and later Lermontov died in a duel, which pressed into Russian poetry its tragic stamp. Later it would be Yesenin i Majakowski who would die of their own hand (they had committed suicide). That's already four greatest Russian poets dying tragically. Then consider the Stalin's terror.

As harsh as the Tsar persecutions were, the Soviet system was still much more inhumane, it tried, and with a considerable effect, to turn people into sovietchicks--soviet citizens, void of their individuality. The conditions in the prisons and in "gulags" were much more severe, the tortures and beatings were wide spread under the Soviet system.

Great Mandelstam died in a gulag during the Stalin era. And so did the great writer Babel--the master of short story, and many other artists. Brodsky had survived the gulag during the Brezniev era, but since then his health was poor.

When I was in Moscow, in 1967/8, a Polish student there told me how he got drunk and by standing in front of a city bus he tried to convince the bus driver to turn the bus the other way. He got promptly arrested. In the prison they told him that he wanted to get killed on purpose, so that a Russian (or Soviet) man will be accused. They beat him bad with clubs but at least they put a blanket on him first. Then, right after that, he saw in his cell how a Russian youngster was brutally beaten there, this time with no blanket. All that youngster was worried about, and shouted to my friend all the time, was "You're a witness! You're a witness!", meaning that my friend was a witness to the fact that the youngster was not raising his hand to hit the milicjants (Soviet policemen). Indeed, he kept his arms tightly along his sides. That's all that that youngster was worried about, he didn't want to be accused of any aggressive gesture toward the police. That was in 1967 or a year earlier, when Stalin already was long dead.

 

[Senna Jawa]

As harsh as the Tsar persecutions were, the Soviet system was still much more inhumane, it tried, and with a considerable effect, to turn people into sovietchicks--soviet citizens, void of their individuality. The conditions in the prisons and in "gulags" were much more severe, the tortures and beatings were wide spread under the Soviet system.

During the Tsars' times, political opponents were sent to Siberia, where otherwise they had a normal life. They could even have their spouses with them. They were just not allowed to leave the area and go back to, say, Petersburg.

But Soviets introduced labor camps, where people were dying en mass from cold and hunger. They didn't have to be any political opponents. There was no rule to who was going end up in a camp. It was common to tell authorities on your neighbor or coworker or on your fellow passanger. There were jokes about it:

It was so nice to travel with him. We drunk and talked and exchanged jokes, we became true friends. Afterwards, at home, I was thinking about going to KGB immediately, to tell on him, but with all that drinking I got lazy, I decided to sleep a couple of hours and to go to KGB in the morning. But he was not so lazy. And that's my fellow comrades how I have joined you behind the bars.​

The population of camps was huge. Millions upon millions of people. Significantly more men than women, hence in the Soviet Union there were many more millions of women alive than of men.

It's sad that even with the communism gone, there are still many more women in Russia than men. Russia has a real demographic problem, they even consider polygamy. This time this situation is due mainly to vodka (and low level of medical care).

 

[thepaleeyes]

I am liking this Senna Jawa... basically for this inclination towards Russian literature... post-70 has almost discarded Russian poetry to a large extent.. and, that has been a sad foolishness as i see it...




also, i want to know how to pull the submissions off, the already submitted ones?? i have sought help from Lebroz, he has tried his bit and we both failed.. i asked help from laurel and contacted literotica, but, there has been nothing apart from dead silence.. but, pulling some of the pieces off is a grave necessity... if anyone can give some input regarding this, i would be grateful...

 

[champagne1982]

<snip>here is a poem i have been trying to post, but, strangely enough, literotica has not been kind enough to let it in.. so, i am just posting it here... also, i want to know how to pull the submissions off, the already submitted ones?? i have sought help from Lebroz, he has tried his bit and we both failed.. i asked help from laurel and contacted literotica, but, there has been nothing apart from dead silence.. but, pulling some of the pieces off is a grave necessity... if anyone can give some input regarding this, i would be grateful...

In order to remove submissions from literotica the registered user must sign in and through the submissions portal, submit a new poem with the same title as the work you wish deleted, including the word "remove" in the title. In the field where text is added all you need to type is words to the effect of "Poem Deleted" or some such and in the "notes" block, ask that the original piece be removed from the site, (and you should be courteous enough to add some kind of explanation as to why you're making the request.) It may take a few days but eventually the changes to your account will happen.

 

[thepaleeyes]

In order to remove submissions from literotica the registered user must sign in and through the submissions portal, submit a new poem with the same title as the work you wish deleted, including the word "remove" in the title. In the field where text is added all you need to type is words to the effect of "Poem Deleted" or some such and in the "notes" block, ask that the original piece be removed from the site, (and you should be courteous enough to add some kind of explanation as to why you're making the request.) It may take a few days but eventually the changes to your account will happen.

thank u very much.. i am trying this out right now.. cheers..

 

[LeBroz]

In order to remove submissions from literotica the registered user must sign in and through the submissions portal, submit a new poem with the same title as the work you wish deleted, including the word "remove" in the title. In the field where text is added all you need to type is words to the effect of "Poem Deleted" or some such and in the "notes" block, ask that the original piece be removed from the site, (and you should be courteous enough to add some kind of explanation as to why you're making the request.) It may take a few days but eventually the changes to your account will happen.

Hope this finally works for TPE. Gave him pretty similar instructions to try {using the word 'delete' instead of 'remove'}. My last gasp suggestion was to PM Laurel for help.

Now let us return control of this thread to submitting poems in response to Angeline's challenge.

.
.

 

[thepaleeyes]

I did submit a poem here ( the one I sent to you Lebroz), but, felt that it wasn't related to the thread.. so, moved it out.. i sent a PM to Laurel.. but, nothing happened..


I have already acted on C1982's suggestions.. it seems last i didn't have anything to put in the text zone.. so, it didn't work out.. let's see how it turns out.. sorry for the interruption..


i will remove my (unrelated) posts from here soon...

 

[Angeline]

I did submit a poem here ( the one I sent to you Lebroz), but, felt that it wasn't related to the thread.. so, moved it out.. i sent a PM to Laurel.. but, nothing happened..


I have already acted on C1982's suggestions.. it seems last i didn't have anything to put in the text zone.. so, it didn't work out.. let's see how it turns out.. sorry for the interruption..


i will remove my (unrelated) posts from here soon...

No, don't apologize. Your pm to her may have slipped through the cracks somehow. If it still doesn't work, let me know and I'll help you make it happen.

 

[Tzara]

This one is not a congenial subject, so I cop an out, badly.

.

Apology to Mayakovsky

........Well, because
I am not angry
about anything, goddammit.

........Not that it's his business,
or yours, anyway.

.

 

[normal jean]

The central + the depressing meaning of English cloud is given by Russian word tucha (Polish chmura). Majakowski (Mayakovskij, ...) used a different Russian word oblako (or obłok in Polish, pronounced obwok or obwock), which is a small white cloud in a nice sunny weather. Thus the image induced by the metaphoric phrase cloud in trousers is much more delicate and poetic than the straight English phrase suggests. Imagine an ice cream sticking out of an ice cream cone. Now think about a big man body hovering above his pants. Majakowski was a big man but he says that he is just a gentle cloud in pants. Of course, if you are in a naughty mood then you may think (imagine ) of a small cloud inside the man's trousers--that would be a secondary association. It does not work with the word "cloud" while it does very well with the original oblako.

The phrase was used independently by two Russian poets. The other one was known for and fond of his trousers. He had exclaimed: Majakowski has stolen my trousers!

I have been depressed this week. Barely peeked in to see what was going on.

I want to say, I have almost always enjoyed SJ and the incredible amount of knowledge his has stored away.

I will also so, see ya'll later, I am depressed enough. Theres enough hatefulnesses in the world and this is sad, the last 30 or so posts I read.

I,also thought this was a good idea, it may not be an in depth study of any poet in particular, but just a "taste of" sort of thing...that isnt bad.... the way the interactions here have gone on, is....sad.

smile people, and accept one another, take the good where you can get it, let the rest pass on as if water over a shallow dam.

 

[Senna Jawa]

.

Apology to Mayakovsky

........Well, because
I am not angry

And neither was Majakowski. He was enthusiastic. There is much more to it, but "angry" does not apply to him.

 

[Tzara]

And neither was Majakowski.

I did not say he was.

 

[ohhh_livia]

.......

 

[Liar]

I do remember a time when Angeline had Senna on ignore and that was almost as childish a fight as this is becoming. SJ has strong opinions, and peopl ehere have encouraged us to be bold, to critique, to offer suggestions, and then when we do, we are called trolls just because we didn't slobber all over some poorly written turd of a poem. It seems to me, signed or unsigned, comments which do not praise a poem are usually mocked by the "poet". Double standard.

Nice diatribe. Not very Mayakowsky-esque, but anyhoo...

Look, there are two sides to this. One is that yes, poets are often insecure and some lash out against criticism even if it's clearly justified. Take it for what it is.

The other side is that "this is a pooly written turd of a poem" or "delete this trash and write some poetry instead" or "you couldn't write your way out of a paper bag" is NOT to present a strong opinion. It is being a dick and a poser. And I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable, but I'll keep calling on that when I see it. I can't remember ever confronting SJ and others when they actually DO said teaching and share their knowledge (the Polish and Russian poetry thread for instance, is excellent. I'm not educated enough to contribute, but I read and learn stuff. Super.). But ripping into other people's efforts without trying to specifically explain what doesn't work and why (and no, "this doesn't work because it's awful" is not a sufficient explanation), is against the very purpose of teacing.

But suit yourself. Have rant if it makes you happy.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Hear hear Liar .... I did wonder whether to just shut up and not get embroiled again but I was highly amused at being called 'Sweet' ... is that really how you all see me? Well I guess I can live with that however much it makes me laugh (if only you knew lol) BTW I don't just compliment for the sake of it if I like it I will bloody well say so whether anyone else wants to disagree or not and I stick by what I said. I too have read what Senna has written and it was interesting but I am buggered if I will let anyone walk all over me just because they think I can't stick up for myself so don't talk down to me sweet or not .... just because I don't chose to use profanities to you doesn't mean I am a walkover

 

[Angeline]

This place is like a sociology experiment gone terribly wrong. What have we here? Amongst a squabble about sarcasm, and the above quoted "poet" threatening another with "...and I mean it" then to go on with her own sarcastic drivel.

We have educated people, this time I refer to Senna Jawa, who despite his multitudes of attempts to bring culture to this place, or at the very least, teach us All something, well, I see him being treated as if he were some slovenly hobo too drunk and delirious to be treated with the even smallest amount of respect. Personally, Senna, I do not see why you stay here and tolerate these ignorant children and all their disrespectful snobbery and self glorification.

Most of you people here just think way too much of yourselves. And most of you certainly think way too much of your feeble attempts at poetry and that is why I have chosen not to post mine here. I want my own work to be treated with the honesty I give others, not just blatant ass kissing rah-rahs just because of who I am or am not.

There is a miss Angeline, who in her recent poetry reviews states that all of unpredictablebijou's work is good, well, just because she wrote it, ( just because Angeline happens to like the self-anointed attention whore) which is about as much ass kissing as I could take in this this forum filled with phoneys.

I do remember a time when Angeline had Senna on ignore and that was almost as childish a fight as this is becoming. SJ has strong opinions, and peopl ehere have encouraged us to be bold, to critique, to offer suggestions, and then when we do, we are called trolls just because we didn't slobber all over some poorly written turd of a poem. It seems to me, signed or unsigned, comments which do not praise a poem are usually mocked by the "poet". Double standard.

We have sweet people, like UYS, who wants to fit in so she compliments people on every litle thing, give her a break, she hasn't learned what is acceptable by this freakish little clique..in other words, how she might be able to kiss ass and make everyone happy.

I would suggest hanging out in the amoral squalor of the bistro should sharpen those skills.

Then, we have poets with real talent who have been driven away because of this ignorance and squabbling. Someone recently stated this is the best the poetry forum has ever been. That thought is as ridiculous as this entire thread. I would assume they just tired of wading through the muck of all the hate and disrespect in this place. And oh how these people have placed themselves on pedestals. It would be funny if it weren't so blatantly cruel and miserable.

So pardon me for not wanting to be a part of your ( collective) hateful little cult going on here. I read those who do not give out praise like beads at Mardi gras, I read those who show a modicum of talent, and sometimes, for a laugh, I read people like bijou or impressive or that ramona girl...

so fight on, this peanut is sitting in the gallery amused at your ( once again, collective) hypocrisy...

Oh stifle it Edith. You're entitled to your opinion like anyone else, but your take on the "clique" is so much bs. I rave about a lot of poets whose poems I like. Some I know, some I don't, and while I don't trash poems I don't like, I also don't say poems are flawless unless I really think they are, a rare occurrence. If you believe that, go look at my comments and prove it. I'm much more inclined than many to say a poem needs a fix or two to make it better. And yes I like Bijou and I like most of what I've seen her write. How does that make me an ass kisser? I love Eve's poems and Annaswirl's poems, Maria's poems, Liar's poems and Denis Hale's poems, too. Am I kissing all those asses, too? What would not kissing their asses translate to? Being rude to them on the forum? You know about some rule that says you can't be friendly here if you like someone's poems? And yeah Senna and I had a falling out years ago, but we got over it. Since your join date shows as 10/07 and that happened sometime around 2003, who were you then? And UYS is fine, if you hadn't noticed and can take care of herself as far as I can see. You can stay a "peanut" (your own label) or you can write and start challenges ofr do whatever you think it takes to make the board more to your liking. But maybe it's easier to trash people and stir shit and complain about how it could be better here, huh?

 

[Anschul]

See how interesting it is when an highly emotional poet evokes high emotion? In the end, those who want to be here will be here, those who don't won't. Whining accomplishes nothing, but it sure is fun to read. Insults accomplish something, sometimes positive, sometimes not. But in the end I believe all points of view makes the poetry better. The reason I keep reading is that I think these challenge threads are about the poets here, not the poets being emulated (or not).
This one is especially fun for me, because I am of Russian descent, and I remember SF in the late sixties and early seventies, both of which are relevant to the thread. Keep up the fun.
Ange, you sure do stir it up.
A

 

[Angeline]

See how interesting it is when an highly emotional poet evokes high emotion? In the end, those who want to be here will be here, those who don't won't. Whining accomplishes nothing, but it sure is fun to read. Insults accomplish something, sometimes positive, sometimes not. But in the end I believe all points of view makes the poetry better. The reason I keep reading is that I think these challenge threads are about the poets here, not the poets being emulated (or not).
This one is especially fun for me, because I am of Russian descent, and I remember SF in the late sixties and early seventies, both of which are relevant to the thread. Keep up the fun.
Ange, you sure do stir it up.
A

Lol! I'm the "sweet one" remember?

 

[ohhh_livia]

oh, see how indignant they are when a mirror is held to their faces.

Dear UYS, can't you read? You are one of the few that is not a phoney in here and I hope you stay that way. The rest of you, well....denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

 

[Guest]

.......

 

[Angeline]

What was this thread all about again?

Poetry, oddly enough.