So I've Been Looking Into It, And I Think I Am Gor

[Etoile]

i kinda feel where Uncle Rosco is coming from. over the years i've learned that many of the beliefs and values under which my Master and i live are shared by many Goreans, to the point that quite a few people have oddly assumed we were so. like others have said, the main thing i don't get about Gor (and why i can't really take it seriously) is the whole sci-fi, dungeons and dragons roleplay vibe it has going. i don't understand the need to justify those basic philosophies (like male supremacy, females as property, etc.) with a bunch of fiction books and alien planets and whatnot. why not just say "this is the way it is and should be, period?" that's what my Master does anyhow. *shrug*

*giggles* You're so right about the trappings!

I wonder if Goreans feel the need to use those trappings because they worry that otherwise, their views will be too unpopular? Like, society would never accept us if we just said "men are better than women" but if we couch it in sci-fi terms it's more acceptable.

In reality though, I think it makes them more laughable. I'd rather see them stand up for what they believe in because they believe in it rather than saying "but this pulp novel told me so!"

 

[rosco rathbone]

Trappings trappings trappings. Makes you think, eh? This ought to be the sugar that makes the bitter pill of my orientation go down smoothly in the modern world: some cheesey Edgar Rice Burroughs trappings.

It's as good as an admission that the gorean way is the way of fantasy.

 

[Etoile]

Trappings trappings trappings. Makes you think, eh? This ought to be the sugar that makes the bitter pill of my orientation go down smoothly in the modern world: some cheesey Edgar Rice Burroughs trappings.

It's as good as an admission that the gorean way is the way of fantasy.

Only in the sense that wearing white at your wedding is fantasy. Trappings aren't fantasy, trappings are the decorations around the rituals we do. That's what I meant by trappings - exactly what OSG said, all the alien planets and stuff, on top of the underlying theme of male supremacy. I certainly wasn't saying "the Gorean way is the way of fantasy" at all.

 

[ownedsubgal]

*giggles* You're so right about the trappings!

I wonder if Goreans feel the need to use those trappings because they worry that otherwise, their views will be too unpopular? Like, society would never accept us if we just said "men are better than women" but if we couch it in sci-fi terms it's more acceptable.

In reality though, I think it makes them more laughable. I'd rather see them stand up for what they believe in because they believe in it rather than saying "but this pulp novel told me so!"

yep yep exactly. seems a little insecure.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I think we are on the same page.

I don't really think that I can rationally justify my male supremacism. I find myself on the same emotional wavelength as the goreans without their willing suspension of disbelief.

 

[Netzach]

I don't really think that I can rationally justify my male supremacism.

Well, thank God for that.

Way overrated pursuit. Just enjoy yourself.

 

[Netzach]

yep yep exactly. seems a little insecure.

I also find the honorable noble latter day psuedo Bushido BS kind of annoying. If you want to just smack your bitches up and they're standing there wanting you to do it, just do it, egad. A liberal borrowing of tripe off the Castlerealm menu that no one seems upset with.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't understand why I *should* get along with people who are basing their lives off a kind of fascist program. I mean I don't have to hit them over the heads with sticks, but a round of kumbaya is not forthcoming. If you want to argue that no no it's not fascist, just look up "blood and soil" and you'll be amused at the overlap.

Is there some reason I have to integrate with people who don't think I exist, don't think I have a right to exist and think that my entire existence is me lying to myself?

No, I'm kind of protective of the neat part of SM being that people *choose* to excercise their polarities or not, not that we're dumb pre-programmed animals close to nature. I'm very itchy whenever someone waxes poetic about how much truer they are to themselves than vanilla people or XYZ other people, and I dunno, this is the rallying cry of all Goreans I've ever met - we're more authentic to human nature.

I personally have no comfort level with people whether they're tree hugging Greens or Goreans saying "we want to be more tribal and primal, industrialization has sucked the fun out of everything." Probably because when Europeans get more primal I, genetically, have a disposition to get more dead.

I like synthetic fabrics too, as long as they're not scratchy.

Additionally this is the sound of RR's dick talking. He's too smooth and suave to make a separate thread for it.

Well, my take on that whole thing is that people crave what religion provides: ritual, tradition and a sense of self. For a variety of reasons, people either reject religion or perhaps feel rejected by it, and they turn to some other alternative to get that same feeling.

It could be Gor; it could be yoga.

 

[midwestyankee]

I always thought that Gor was a really good deal for young guys that couldn't otherwise afford a good coffee table.

 

[FurryFury]

I always thought that Gor was a really good deal for young guys that couldn't otherwise afford a good coffee table.

LMAO!

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I find some things of value within the "Gorean philosophy" but I understand where those things come from.

Gor is a fantasy construct, an amalgamation of cultures, ideas and technologies spanning the Stone Age to Space Travel. From high tech to "goat skin huts" (Thanks Netz for that imagery! ) Cultures portrayed on Gor range from the nomadic Mongols and Huns and Native American tribes to Greece, Rome, the Vikings and Amazonia (yes, Virginia, there are free women and female Dominants on Gor). The world of Gor is written about in a series of 26 novels by "John Norman".

John Norman was the pseudonym of one John Frederick Lange, Jr. a professor of philosophy, and a couple of other "ghost writers". In style and feel, the books owe a great deal to Edgar Rice Burrough's John Carter of Mars series.

Lange, writing as Norman, used the Gor books as a bully pulpit to rail against modern society and many of the trappings of civilization. His characters often go off on long, philosophical ramblings expounding on the virtues of their natural existence. Besides the humans of Gor there are 2 alien races present and often in conflict, the Priest-Kings and the Kurii. The conflict between the 2 alien races has been compared in some circles to the Cold War (the superpowers fighting by proxy) and to the extremes of human behavior (dispassionate logic on one hand, uncontrolled emotion on the other) much like the roles of Spock and McCoy on StarTrek.

I'm not an expert on Gor by any means. I've read many of the novels and I can see the appeal on many levels, but it's not my cup of tea. While I understand the D/s aspects of Gor, frankly, I'm more of a sadist than a Dom and I'm far more tuned in to Micheal Moorcock's Melnibone' as a culture, than Gor.

As for Goreans in our midst, Goreans are to the BDSM community what Klingons are to the Sci-Fi/fantasy community - a highly specialized nitch fan group. Being a sci-fi fan and kinkster, living my life in both worlds, I see the parallels quite clearly. Again, not my cup of tea, but hey, the Klingons throw kick ass parties at Con!

YIK,
- Geoff

 

[Etoile]

As for Goreans in our midst, Goreans are to the BDSM community what Klingons are to the Sci-Fi/fantasy community - a highly specialized nitch fan group. Being a sci-fi fan and kinkster, living my life in both worlds, I see the parallels quite clearly. Again, not my cup of tea, but hey, the Klingons throw kick ass parties at Con!

See, I told you people, Goreans = Klingons! Except I don't think the Goreans do community service like the Klingons do.

EG, if you weren't married and I wasn't married and homosexual, I'd be visiting you with the intent of proposing.

 

[Netzach]

It's not surprising I don't get it, my geek cred is like, negative.

Except for the Blackadder and Python thing.

 

[pierced_boy]

EG
You have put this so well, little left to say really . thankyou

and

Netzach your posts on this subject have been great, so witty and intelligent and insightfull, I have really enjoyed them thankyou

H

 

[satindesire]

I also find the honorable noble latter day psuedo Bushido BS kind of annoying. If you want to just smack your bitches up and they're standing there wanting you to do it, just do it, egad. A liberal borrowing of tripe off the Castlerealm menu that no one seems upset with.

I really, really want to have sex with you right now.

 

[Marquis]

I know a Gorean trained submissive who touches her palm to her chin every time she starts talking to me. I have to admit that I find it quite charming.

My most recent foray into justifying my needs has led me to the teachings of David Deida. His book The Way of the Superior Man is a powerfully informative and persuasive tome on how to keep your woman in check.

Presented in terms holistic and balanced enough for a Wiccan, David Deida (originally David Greenberg) provides practical advice on how to love your woman into sweet, tender submission; as nature intended.

Look for it in the New Age Spirituality section of your local book depot.

 

[Etoile]

I know a Gorean trained submissive who touches her palm to her chin every time she starts talking to me. I have to admit that I find it quite charming.

My most recent foray into justifying my needs has led me to the teachings of David Deida. His book The Way of the Superior Man is a powerfully informative and persuasive tome on how to keep your woman in check.

Presented in terms holistic and balanced enough for a Wiccan, David Deida (originally David Greenberg) provides practical advice on how to love your woman into sweet, tender submission; as nature intended.

Look for it in the New Age Spirituality section of your local book depot.

She does what, exactly?

You are definitely reading something different into Deida than I have. I never really thought his stuff was about D/s - it's about interpersonal relationships and making them into what you want them to be. Now, for you, that would be a D/s relationship...but I don't think that's what Deida is necessarily preaching, it's just how you're interpreting it for your use. (Which is what you're supposed to do with a book like that.) The title doesn't refer to "superior" as in "dominant" - it means successful, happy, well-rounded, etc.

I really don't like his theories that we are either male or female. This is something that has been coming up in my Sex and Gender class for the past couple of weeks, or at least the class discussion has led me down this road. See, I don't consider myself only feminine or only masculine. I'm in the middle, but there's no room for that in Deida's philosophies. You either are, or you aren't.

 

[the captians wench]

wow EG really covered a lot of ground.

My expereince with goreans has been that there are two groups, those who have read the books, and those who have gotten all of their info from the many gorean boards out there. While they don't seem to be a seperating as other groups who have such deffinitions, you can notice a difference when you talk to them.

I was originally trained by a gorean house. Most of my experience comes from the people in that house. I have read quite a few of the books, but do not participate on any forums. That same gorean house has been trying to get me to go to a "gor fest" that they attend for a few years, but I have declined.

The rituals appeal to me. I think they give me that since of stability that I have been searching for, that only realized that's what I have been looking for in the past few months. And the male supremisy is a familure tone for me having been raised to be "the biblical wife". I was taught from an early age that the man was the leader of the house, and personally I like it that way.

Now as EG mentioned there are female dominate characters in the gor series and in the gorean world here on earth. These are a very special type of women, and while they are the exception to the majority, they are respected as powerful women. The male slaves you can't really say the same for, at least in my readings these seem to be the bottom of the barrel when it comes to the gene pool. The most degrading thing to be is a male slave on gor.

While I do find comfort in some of the practices, and I love the slave positions, and rituals, my problem, I've realized, is that I'm not happy being just property. I'm also way too needy to be dismissed so easily, to be invisible unless wanted. I'm also not big into role play, and so far all the goreans I know the role play is just as important as real life. *shrug*

So take what ya like and throw the rest out. I mention things that I like about the books to those who I give athority to, some times they like it, some times they don't. Jounar is very fond of the slave positions, but not so much in calling them by name.

I will say this. I've gotten a lot more from the books than I have from reading forums.

 

[unfoundiamond]

I don't subscribe to most gorean ideals, I DO believe submissives have rights and should be treated as such...

I do see the appeal of the positions and ritualistic presentation of the "slave"

but all that romantic sex stuff could never overshadow the fascist b.s. that litters Gor.

My playpartner said he was really into Gor, I wasn't impressed, and when I began to research and read, and learned the rights of the submissive, (NONE) I instantly didn't want anything to do with being the "bottom" in any play with him...

(Of course we talked about it, and He assured me he didn't agree with everything Gor)

But Gor IMO is not something you pick and choose beliefs from... you either believe it, or you don't...

A person who just likes to have their partner in cool positions is just that... Gor has a lot more to it.

 

[satindesire]

Gor is the Scientology of the BDSM world.

 

[Marquis]

She does what, exactly?

touches her palm to her chin every time she starts talking to me.

The title doesn't refer to "superior" as in "dominant"

Neither did I. I happen to believe we're all equal parts of the same puzzle, necessary elements, yin-yang, all that jazz.

 

[snowy ciara]

See, I told you people, Goreans = Klingons! Except I don't think the Goreans do community service like the Klingons do.

No way! Warf is MUCH sexier than Tarl Cabot... They're totally different!

Seriously, I know a few Goreans who have adapted the philosophy in a way that works in the regular world, and is not too much at odd with the local community. The big thing they've changed is that they've ditched the online-isms, as well as the evangelical bent that we see with many "Goreans" and are open to other ways of Kink. I can't stand most online Goreans as a whole, but I've met several people whom I like. Back in the last few weeks of the submissive thought of the day calendar, I found a well reasoned quote from the early days of the forum about Gor. I'll have to go find it again.

And yes, the Goreans I know do volunteer in the community. They've adopted a roadway collectively, and my volunteer buddy at the Humane Society is a Gorean Master.


Edited to add the link to the post on the STotD Calendar about Gor, which contains a link to the Gorean post.... http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=25406516#post25406516

Which begs the question... If I make a post that is nothing but links to posts in other threads with links in them, will I break a hole in the space/time continuum and break Lit?

 

[Kajira Callista]

No way! Warf is MUCH sexier than Tarl Cabot... They're totally different!

Seriously, I know a few Goreans who have adapted the philosophy in a way that works in the regular world, and is not too much at odd with the local community. The big thing they've changed is that they've ditched the online-isms, as well as the evangelical bent that we see with many "Goreans" and are open to other ways of Kink. I can't stand most online Goreans as a whole, but I've met several people whom I like. Back in the last few weeks of the submissive thought of the day calendar, I found a well reasoned quote from the early days of the forum about Gor. I'll have to go find it again.

And yes, the Goreans I know do volunteer in the community. They've adopted a roadway collectively, and my volunteer buddy at the Humane Society is a Gorean Master.


Edited to add the link to the post on the STotD Calendar about Gor, which contains a link to the Gorean post.... http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=25406516#post25406516

Which begs the question... If I make a post that is nothing but links to posts in other threads with links in them, will I break a hole in the space/time continuum and break Lit?

i had to click the link to see if i was going to just disappear or something. I'm still here

 

[satindesire]

KC, what do you think about all this? When did you get involved in Gor?

 

[Kajira Callista]

KC, what do you think about all this? When did you get involved in Gor?

I won't post what I think (or know) here and everyone who has posted here already knows that. *smiles sweetly*