sub has its own definition or is an abbreviation for submissive...?

[unfoundiamond]

Good to see it was worth a blabbing =D

Netzach... that's why I asked, I don't know... I can only go by what I am told...

EmpressFi... I am sure glad I asked if you had a misconception that lead to a misunderstanding, I like to learn from others misunderstandings...

Sexycaz- Wow, I didn't know that even existed...

OregonGirl- thanx for comming out... I love to pry someone out of their shell... I hope to see you again!

 

[Marquis]

It's all about consent guys.

As long as everything is consentual it's all good.

 

[Etoile]

Ask 10 different people these questions, and you'll get 10 different answers. It's just one of those things.

Oh, and I consider "Top" to mean "the person that does things to the other person" and "bottom" to mean "the person that receives things from the other person" - no D/s connotation necessary, though it is possible to include that. This is not to say that a dominant receiving oral is a bottom - I'm speaking in the most general of terms.

 

[h_i_s]

As soon as we decide to choose what we decide are the best or better or correct labels for others..... we will find ourselves in error.

People decide for themselves what best defines them, as they should. If you are in doubt of what to call someone, ASK them what they prefer.

Problem solved.


Good example: If we are ever in conversation and you call me a sub or a submissive I will inform you that I am NEITHER and if you refer to me as either again, I'll be quite tempted to wack you upside your head in an attempt to help you snap out of it. He (IYM .. INSIDEYOURMIND) refers to me as owned property aka slave, and I'd be more comfortable with you calling me top or dom or my NAME over sub or submissive (which would be more accurate as far as my role and how I interact with others, other than Him, as I do not submit to anyone, although I DO obey Him.).

 

[madetotakeit]

As soon as we decide to choose what we decide are the best or better or correct labels for others..... we will find ourselves in error.

People decide for themselves what best defines them, as they should. If you are in doubt of what to call someone, ASK them what they prefer.

Short, succinct, and perfectly stated.

 

[h_i_s]

I've always..at least until being seriously and sarcastically reminded by other lit posters that a sub is a sandwich and that a submissive is a submissive... thought that the terms were interchangeable...

My first gut thought is .. who fucking cares... I mean really who cares if someone disagrees to the term YOU use to describe who you are. What right do they have to dictate to you something so subjective. Unless your PYL wants you to use a certain term or spell it a certain way.. no one has the right to tell you which word is right or wrong..

So.. if I offend someone with this.. I'm sorry, it's not my intent.. but why should i have to conform with what someone else says.

So..from now on..

I am a sub. I am proudly a sub. I am proud to be his sub, his pet. And when I say "sub" ... I mean it as an abbreviation of the word submissive. And if you dont like that I do that.. you can bite my left toe

For the record:quoted your text and posted my thoughts.. this is not an attack toward you or your thoughts etc ect.. I have simply used your post as a springboard for my own.

Which could all be just fine unless we wish to get all nit picky and actually give a shit about sentence structure and the correct use of language skills: Submissive is not a noun. Submissive is an adjective.

(submissively is an adverb, submissiveness is a noun.)

Sub in some places is person who fills a temporary position (sub teacher).
Sub is also a type of water craft, as in the type which travels under the water (submarine).
Sub is a type of large sandwhich here too, also known as a grinder or hogie.

I for one fucking care what people may decide to call me. It matters to me that people 'get' who I am straight in their assumptions of me. I'd rather they not take it upon themselves to decide who I am to Him, vs other people who I interact with. I don't care what others choose to call themselves as that is neither my business nor does it effect me.

I just like my people with at least half a brain and at least an ounce of concideration for how others identify and feel. If they don't know, they should either care enough to ask, or they should at least have enough sense to know that should they decide to assume.... they should expect to have a strong possibility of being incorrect in their assumptions.

 

[EmpressFi]

I agree that if someone labels you with something you feel incorrect then by all means stand up for yourself and correct them... my issue is when someone corrects the use of what I use to label MYSELF...

When I say "I am a sub", I am abbreviating "I am a submissive". But then it has occured that after I've said, "I am a sub", someone who isnt my Master says, "No, you are a submissive.. a sub is a sandwich".

That is the part that frustrates me... it would be one thing if I had said, "I am a slave", which I'm not, then saying ot me, "No, you're a submissive..." would be correct. Perhaps I'd confused the terminology, or just didnt know any better. But when I say sub instead of submissive, I"m seeing it as an abbreviation for it.

 

[unfoundiamond]

As soon as we decide to choose what we decide are the best or better or correct labels for others..... we will find ourselves in error.

People decide for themselves what best defines them, as they should. If you are in doubt of what to call someone, ASK them what they prefer.

Problem solved.


Good example: If we are ever in conversation and you call me a sub or a submissive I will inform you that I am NEITHER and if you refer to me as either again, I'll be quite tempted to wack you upside your head in an attempt to help you snap out of it. He (IYM .. INSIDEYOURMIND) refers to me as owned property aka slave, and I'd be more comfortable with you calling me top or dom or my NAME over sub or submissive (which would be more accurate as far as my role and how I interact with others, other than Him, as I do not submit to anyone, although I DO obey Him.).

I don't think you understand the question.

 

[unfoundiamond]

Read this...

I seem to have been misunderstood.

I don't go around, walking up to people and calling then names period...

So why would I call you a sub?

I had someone call THEMSELF a sub, and told me a definition I had never heard before...

So I asked people to assess my ideas on what these words ("sub" and submissive, and a submissive...) mean...

I hate labels too... (I often refuse them to be put on me, or my relationships too)

But I am sometimes FORCED to use them when reffering to and speaking about other people... or the "lifestyle"

(or what if I am trying to explain something to someone, not BDSM related... Don't you think I should be sure of the terminology I will use so as to not further alienate anyone)

Which is how this came up.

(And I am not trying to start another T/b thread... but that was part that was somewhat incorrect... so it was touched on, but the real topic here was ment to be if sub is or is not ment to be an abbreviation for submissive)

In a conversation with someone else I was told it isn't... it is its own term or title... with a diffrent meaning or implications than submissive...

I just need to be able to understand others, and maybe that means having people give me THEIR definition is the only way to do that...

Because occasionally I will be refferring to someone else, OR READING IN THE FORUM, and I want to make sure what I understand what the words mean... .

That's all..

So... can you see why I am confused why you'd say I'd call you a sub in the first place? I am sure I could find something less rude to call you... (Miss, and Ms. Have always worked just fine in the past... But occasionally I am talking to Him or I am talking to a "sub" (hahaha, she calls HERSELF that, so get off my case) and she tells me something I haven't heard...

So I come to you guys to help a girl out...

You'd want me to call you a Dom? Are you being sarcastic, or just being silly?
I don't call myself a Dom... I don't even call Him a Dom...

I don't get it.

 

[twysted73]

~ Tomato, Tomato...

" ’Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself though, not a Montague.
What’s Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O! be some other name:
What’s in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet "

Or, less eloquently.." I yam what I yam"

 

[ecstaticsub]

I do not have a submissive personality in general. Some people in my day to day life may think I do just because I am very non-confrontational. (I think having children has taught me the "pick your battles" way of thinking works for more than just children). I tend to be dominant in my marriage, my work, in my relationships with friends and extended family. (no one ever seems to want to take respnsibility...lol)

But...in my D/s relationship I am both submissive and a submissive. More correctly for me we consider my status as a owned submissive. There will be those who would disagree that may say only slaves can be owned, or since I am married to someone else and my D/s relationship in LD I can not be owned but whatever..it make no difference to us what others think. I also don't mind being referred to as a "sub" on this board or in context of a BDSM kind of conversation.

How we define oursleves I think is highly personal. Even if my relationship would change and we would divorce our spouses (which will never happen..) move in with each other and enter into a TPE type of relationship I will never be a "slave". Maybe emotionally and in action but the word has too many negative meanings to me to ever use it to describe a positive relationship. But that is something very personal for me...I have no problem with others using it to describe their relationship and I see nothing negative in it's use for them.

 

[WriterDom]

Has the PYL/pyl thing been seen anywhere other than here?

I've never heard a Dom, Master, or Top get offended over what someone calls them. It's always the female pyl's that get in a hissy over this. If I start a thread out with "Let me ask the submissives something" At least one person will have to start out with "I'm not a submissive, I'm a slave, but..."

It's good message board shorthand but I'm not that fond of it.

 

[h_i_s]

I seem to have been misunderstood.

I don't go around, walking up to people and calling then names period...

So why would I call you a sub?

I had someone call THEMSELF a sub, and told me a definition I had never heard before...

So I asked people to assess my ideas on what these words ("sub" and submissive, and a submissive...) mean...



So... can you see why I am confused why you'd say I'd call you a sub in the first place? I am sure I could find something less rude to call you... (Miss, and Ms. Have always worked just fine in the past... But occasionally I am talking to Him or I am talking to a "sub" (hahaha, she calls HERSELF that, so get off my case) and she tells me something I haven't heard...

So I come to you guys to help a girl out...

You'd want me to call you a Dom? Are you being sarcastic, or just being silly?
I don't call myself a Dom... I don't even call Him a Dom...

I don't get it.

I didn't reply to your post line for line because many of your assumptions are pretty fucked. So, I decided to lean toward your main question tidbit of confusion: sub has its own definition or is an abbreviation for submissive...?

I understand your question. It's a silly question and
you need to understand the answer and accept the answer offered.
You don't get to shop for the answer you LIKE or prefer.

GET IT?

You also need to realize that while you have the option of offering a new topic for discussion, you do not get to choose how others reply.

If you really want to know my opinion of this thread: I think you are an attention whore sitting there just grasping at straws racking your brain for new topic ideas. Most of which, are silly or just deserving short and to the point answers of , "DUH...". "*yes I said it*.".

Sometimes when you ask an opinion what you get back may not be what you want and/or what you like. Too bad. Such is life. Call the nice police........ waah waah.

 

[madetotakeit]

As this thread has shown there are many opinions. Is one more correct than the other? No Are they all valid? Yes. As long as no assumptions are made as to what that personal definition entails it is no problem. Problems arise when it is thought that all are one way or another. No different than any other stereotype. Nobody likes to be stereotyped.

As with anything in my life I prefer people to judge me based on me. I am part Cherokee. I identify with that part of me. Am I someone else's image of Cherokee? Maybe, maybe not. I have the features but unless I have a tan my skin takes on the color of my Irish/English side. Some people are surprised to find I am Cherokee, but I have yet to have someone who is not ask me my clan.

To some sub is simple a broad word to describe the person's nature. And getting into semantics that is what it is. Others will not see it that way. It's context comes from the person. Someone who does not identify as a slave, lg, etc may identify as sub. It is it's own category to that person. Where they place themselves in the grand scheme of things. Webster's could be quoted ad nauseum and there will still be no definitive answer.

Ask the person what it means to them. Use their description to understand that person. With the next person, do the same. Don't overlap or project one onto the other. Because a person identifies themselves in a way that is not how you have previously understood it does not make them wrong and you right or vice versa. Everyone is an individual. That should be celebrated.

 

[twysted73]

Wow....

someone's getting coal in their stocking.

 

[h_i_s]

I seem to have been misunderstood.

I don't go around, walking up to people and calling then names period...

So why would I call you a sub?

I had someone call THEMSELF a sub, and told me a definition I had never heard before...

So I asked people to assess my ideas on what these words ("sub" and submissive, and a submissive...) mean...



So... can you see why I am confused why you'd say I'd call you a sub in the first place? I am sure I could find something less rude to call you... (Miss, and Ms. Have always worked just fine in the past... But occasionally I am talking to Him or I am talking to a "sub" (hahaha, she calls HERSELF that, so get off my case) and she tells me something I haven't heard...

So I come to you guys to help a girl out...

You'd want me to call you a Dom? Are you being sarcastic, or just being silly?
I don't call myself a Dom... I don't even call Him a Dom...

I don't get it.

I'm not submissive to you. I am also not sub to you. They mean the same thing. I am neither to you and for that reason you shouldn't call me either.

Your biggest issue here seems in not knowing how to determine a good source of info from an inaccurate version.

Maybe get yourself some books to get started.

Basics like those covered in Memoirs of a pro-submissive, Different Loving, Screw the Roses , Send me Thorns may help .

You are getting your definitions from less than knowledgable sources.. Best reply I can offer you other than that you can go back and read the 1st reply I offered to you in this thread.

 

[h_i_s]

Has the PYL/pyl thing been seen anywhere other than here?

I've never heard a Dom, Master, or Top get offended over what someone calls them. It's always the female pyl's that get in a hissy over this. If I start a thread out with "Let me ask the submissives something" At least one person will have to start out with "I'm not a submissive, I'm a slave, but..."

It's good message board shorthand but I'm not that fond of it.

I'm fond of it because it is effective and nuetral as a method for addressing others. Never seen anyone offended by being referred to as PYL/ply ..... it works.

 

[h_i_s]

I seem to have been misunderstood.

I don't go around, walking up to people and calling then names period...

So why would I call you a sub?

I had someone call THEMSELF a sub, and told me a definition I had never heard before...

So I asked people to assess my ideas on what these words ("sub" and submissive, and a submissive...) mean...



So... can you see why I am confused why you'd say I'd call you a sub in the first place? I am sure I could find something less rude to call you... (Miss, and Ms. Have always worked just fine in the past... But occasionally I am talking to Him or I am talking to a "sub" (hahaha, she calls HERSELF that, so get off my case) and she tells me something I haven't heard...

So I come to you guys to help a girl out...

You'd want me to call you a Dom? Are you being sarcastic, or just being silly?
I don't call myself a Dom... I don't even call Him a Dom...

I don't get it.

We are not talking rude here.... but why call someone what they have already told you they are not? Or why assume that you know what they are? Why not just ask? You missed that post way back there that I offered you, huh???

 

[h_i_s]

I seem to have been misunderstood.

I don't go around, walking up to people and calling then names period...

So why would I call you a sub?

I had someone call THEMSELF a sub, and told me a definition I had never heard before...

So I asked people to assess my ideas on what these words ("sub" and submissive, and a submissive...) mean...



So... can you see why I am confused why you'd say I'd call you a sub in the first place? I am sure I could find something less rude to call you... (Miss, and Ms. Have always worked just fine in the past... But occasionally I am talking to Him or I am talking to a "sub" (hahaha, she calls HERSELF that, so get off my case) and she tells me something I haven't heard...

So I come to you guys to help a girl out...

You'd want me to call you a Dom? Are you being sarcastic, or just being silly?
I don't call myself a Dom... I don't even call Him a Dom...

I don't get it.

We are not talking rude here.... but why call someone what they have already told you they are not? Or why assume that you know what they are? Why not just ask? You missed that post way back there that I offered you, huh???

IF she calls HERSELF that ....... ACCEPT that she does and get the fuck off HER case. DUH.

Contradicting yourself there...

 

[h_i_s]

Dead topic for me now..

Answered. Done.

Off to decorate my pretty Christmas tree......
Which IS a tree by the way..
It is not a shrub..
Nor is it a bush..

It's a tree.. .. so be it.

 

[unfoundiamond]

Clearly I am the rainbow colored attention whore! HAAA!

I didn't reply to your post line for line because many of your assumptions are pretty fucked. So, I decided to lean toward your main question tidbit of confusion: sub has its own definition or is an abbreviation for submissive...?

I understand your question. It's a silly question and
you need to understand the answer and accept the answer offered.
You don't get to shop for the answer you LIKE or prefer.

GET IT?

You also need to realize that while you have the option of offering a new topic for discussion, you do not get to choose how others reply.

If you really want to know my opinion of this thread: I think you are an attention whore sitting there just grasping at straws racking your brain for new topic ideas. Most of which, are silly or just deserving short and to the point answers of , "DUH...". "*yes I said it*.".

Sometimes when you ask an opinion what you get back may not be what you want and/or what you like. Too bad. Such is life. Call the nice police........ waah waah.

I am sorry you felt the need to cry, and I am sorry your life is so miserable, clearly if you knew what you where talking about you wouldn't have so much misdirected anger... if your life is so miserable you can't have a conversation without being rude than you clearly shouldn't be giving advice at all...

I don't mind teaching you to shut your mouth since He can't...

I am sorry you are jealouse... I am sorry you have to call me an attention seeking whore to boost your confidence from posting a completely unfocused temper tantrum, and btw...

I like how you call me a attention seeking whore and you can't post a thought without it being followed by a rainbow colored paragraph with a animated woman who is UNDOUBTABLY hotter than you...

She looks more like me... HA...

I got something for that mouth...

 

[unfoundiamond]

We are not talking rude here.... but why call someone what they have already told you they are not? Or why assume that you know what they are? Why not just ask? You missed that post way back there that I offered you, huh???

IF she calls HERSELF that ....... ACCEPT that she does and get the fuck off HER case. DUH.

Contradicting yourself there...

Too bad even she says you are offbase and uncalled for...

AGREED,

And maybe you got a stick in your ass from that Christmas tree...

HA!

 

[unfoundiamond]

We are not talking rude here.... but why call someone what they have already told you they are not? Or why assume that you know what they are? Why not just ask? You missed that post way back there that I offered you, huh???

IF she calls HERSELF that ....... ACCEPT that she does and get the fuck off HER case. DUH.

Contradicting yourself there...

Too bad even she says you are offbase and uncalled for...

AGREED,

And since you clearly have a stick in your ass, it must have come from that Christmas tree...

HA!

 

[unfoundiamond]

and BTW

The friend I was talking to said she would have posted this if I didn't,

So I guess we're all attention seekers since we like to post topics...

Damn Literotica... stop making me such a attention whore... letting me ask questions like that...

 

[h_i_s]

oooo my .. I must have hit a sensative spot.
*snorts*
Thanks for not disappointing.
I see your pic on your profile... as stupid looking as you seem. heh

Done for real.. bye.