Subs and Emotional Age - Sincere Discussion for UCE

[~Dream~]

Re: Re: I will expand on this further ..

What behavor would be interupted by you as someone treating you like they were your father?

_____________________
to be as Cold , uncaring and abusive as he(my dad) was for 1 Richard , I understand that Doms are due respect and Must have the almighty precious Control ETC , however fora Dom to tell His slave He was 'IN LOVE' with her and yet not be able to handle "her " lifestyle as well was "wrong' indeed in my eyes ,Artful supposedly "left ' the relationship (without so much as a warning ) case in fact 2 days prior He was 'praising me for coming so far in such a short period of time ( gee did ANYBODY See that mysterious sub who totally "disappeared in 2 days time?) >. she's STILL RIGHT HERE . He left to 'Protect my health?" please? maybe His own might be a better reason , one I COULD accept.. but He KNOWS I am bi-polar capable of great mood swings and missed my med for 2 days , and He was informed of my grand mother's stroke yesterday also(not even an I'm sorry baby came from His lips ,the same ones that TOUCHED mine only2 short months ago ) *sigh* how can a sub ever TRUST again after all this Richard ,really? i ASK you ,how ? my dad used to come home drunk and throw things all over , i feel just as abused NOW as I did then ..

 

[cellis]

I am sorry that things did not work out for you and art... but Dream you have got to stop this...

Pm your friends or call this, but please quit cluttering up the threads with this stuff... it is not pertinent to the subject.

 

[tassie]

thats what i meant, but cellis is nicer than me.

 

[SexyChele]

Thank you both, cellis and tassie, for your words regarding getting back on topic. You both did well.

It appears that Dream is taking care of herself, if indeed she has checked into a hospital, and should be receiving the care she needs at this time.

Now...on with the topic?

 

[zipman]

Thank you both, cellis and tassie, for your words regarding getting back on topic. You both did well.

It appears that Dream is taking care of herself, if indeed she has checked into a hospital, and should be receiving the care she needs at this time.

Now...on with the topic?

Actually Chele, and I don't mean to be cruel here, but Dream's post could be viewed as an example of the topic we are discussing. One aspect of emotional maturity is how you deal with problems in life. How you react to things when they do not go as expected. People with a higher degree of emotional maturity may feel disappointment and anger, but their actions are usually restrained by their level of emotional maturity. The emotionally immature, will lash out at anyone and everyone who disagrees with them.

Another aspect of emotional maturity is taking responsibility for our own actions. Simply blaming others for situations that we have caused by our own actions is not emotional maturity.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I believe this question may play into my original curiousity A child has no control over being treated as a child, as an adult we certainly do - we make our own choices, even if that choice is a power exchange. Having a power exchange within a relationship does not mean you cannot take care of yourself and others, or that you are by default, somehow deficient of emotional maturiuty in general - on the contrary, I think it takes an incredible amount of self-control at times to actually submit to another.

An incredible amount of self-control, trust, and honesty.

Why honesty? Because in order to submit fully and freely you have to be honest about what you really expect out of the relationship. You must know your own mind, and that takes a great deal of emotional maturity.

Eb

 

[zipman]

An incredible amount of self-control, trust, and honesty.

Why honesty? Because in order to submit fully and freely you have to be honest about what you really expect out of the relationship. You must know your own mind, and that takes a great deal of emotional maturity.

Eb

Absolutely Eb! Honest with yourself first, and then honest with your Dom/me. I think a lot of problems in BDSM relationships stem from a lack of honesty, especially with ones' self.

 

[SexyChele]

Actually Chele, and I don't mean to be cruel here, but Dream's post could be viewed as an example of the topic we are discussing. One aspect of emotional maturity is how you deal with problems in life. How you react to things when they do not go as expected. People with a higher degree of emotional maturity may feel disappointment and anger, but their actions are usually restrained by their level of emotional maturity. The emotionally immature, will lash out at anyone and everyone who disagrees with them.

Another aspect of emotional maturity is taking responsibility for our own actions. Simply blaming others for situations that we have caused by our own actions is not emotional maturity.

Normally I would agree with you wholeheartedly, Zipman. This you already know. However, Dream is bi-polar, and has admitted here in public that she went off her meds for 2 days. This puts her in a different frame of mind when dealing with emotional issues, as her mood swings can be erratic. I have known a few people who have had this, and it can be a very serious problem, if one does not stay on their medication.

To discuss the idea of how one deals with a breakup would be very much on topic. To discuss Dream specifically, knowing her problem, would be inappropriate, unless one is an expert on bi-polar syndrome, IMO.

Okay, other than that.....on with the discussion!

 

[zipman]

Normally I would agree with you wholeheartedly, Zipman. This you already know. However, Dream is bi-polar, and has admitted here in public that she went off her meds for 2 days. This puts her in a different frame of mind when dealing with emotional issues, as her mood swings can be erratic. I have known a few people who have had this, and it can be a very serious problem, if one does not stay on their medication.

To discuss the idea of how one deals with a breakup would be very much on topic. To discuss Dream specifically, knowing her problem, would be inappropriate, unless one is an expert on bi-polar syndrome, IMO.

Okay, other than that.....on with the discussion!

With all due respect Chele, if this had been a one-time occurance, I would totally agree with you. However, when behavior is repeated over the course of a few months, it becomes a pattern. While I have had experience with bi-polar disorders, I am not an expert nor do I have a desire to make this a conversation about it.

In addition, my desire was not to talk about Dream, but to use the posts that have disrupted this board as an example of an emotionally based response.

I'm sure there are other examples of emotionally immature behavior of either subs or Dom/mes that others here have. Now, as you said, on with the discussion!

 

[lark sparrow]

An incredible amount of self-control, trust, and honesty.

Why honesty? Because in order to submit fully and freely you have to be honest about what you really expect out of the relationship. You must know your own mind, and that takes a great deal of emotional maturity.

Eb

Wonderful additions, Ebonyfire.

Trust and honesty are big working components of intimate relationships, and within the structure of a D/s relationship they are often brought to the forefront with rules, contracts, the type of play engaged in, limits and protocal.

Of course, it doesn't make D/s relationships anymore successful than other types of relationships in general, as although these things are often talked about as virtues and necessary, they can be tough for everyone to pull off at various times in their lives. Sometimes we don't know where we are. (Not to mention, that many relationships though important, will only be temporary). Honesty is such an important tool though - even if one doesn't have all the answers nor the ones that sound the best. Thanks for including it.

As an aside to problems in a D/s relationship. I think it can be especially challenging and tricky in some circumstances (particularly when new, defined by however many months or years one likes, and online doesn't help) to meld the ideal of a M(Mistress or Master)/slave relationship, and the ideals of adult relationships we may have grown up with. This is not to say that they do not compliment one another - I think a good, working D/s relationship does. However, sometimes the inter-dependency gets skewed, and sometimes too much effort can be put into being the "perfect slave", and the "person" is neglected... or vice versa, the neglected "person" making a stand, and the "perfect slave" role dropped. And the same holds true for dominant people and their role in relationships as well. Playing back into honesty, with self-control.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Here's what I want to know: what are good indicators of emotional maturity?

Self-knowledge, baby.

 

[SexyChele]

With all due respect Chele, if this had been a one-time occurance, I would totally agree with you. However, when behavior is repeated over the course of a few months, it becomes a pattern. While I have had experience with bi-polar disorders, I am not an expert nor do I have a desire to make this a conversation about it.

In addition, my desire was not to talk about Dream, but to use the posts that have disrupted this board as an example of an emotionally based response.

I'm sure there are other examples of emotionally immature behavior of either subs or Dom/mes that others here have. Now, as you said, on with the discussion!

Thank you for the clarification, Zipman. I appreciate it.

And it is an interesting topic. I know that I've had two relationships that I've ended who could not accept that the relationship had ended. Of course, there was no internet around then, so I didn't have to go through their antics in an electric medium, but I did have to deal with late night rantings over the phone, sudden appearances at work and my apartment, and veiled threats.

Not accepting the end of a relationship I can understand. If one has invested a great deal of time and energy, and is still in love with the other person, it is difficult to let go and accept the relationship is no longer. It's how one deals with that ending. Because emotions are deeply involved, I think most people "slip" and might yell (maybe to some one, or just to the four walls), cry, get upset, struggle to get back with the person, or something else. I would expect this is normal - up to a point, and up to a certain intensity.

What is that point? I really think it depends. Certainly threats or stalking or doing something that causes fear in another person. I also believe carrying this activity on for months is a sign of emotional immaturity. But these I think are extreme.

I do know that when a long term relationship of mine (7 years) was suddenly cut off, I went through a couple of hours of rage - however, only my roommate was around, and she already thought the guy was a "dirtbag". (her word, not mine) After that I went into a sort of shock-like state - depression, if you will, that lasted almost two weeks. It took months to heal from the relationship, but I didn't exhibit any extreme behavior outside of those 2 weeks. And I think that was due to the fact of the relationship having been so long, and having gotten invovled at a young age. (21)

I would freely admit that at the age of the breakup (28), I still had a lot of growing up to do. I don't know if I would handle it better today or not. Maybe different. I don't know. I do know that experience shaped a lot of how I deal with relationships.

Now, I'm sure how this adds to the topic, but perhaps it might spur some discussion...

 

[Ebonyfire]

Trust and honesty are big working components of intimate relationships, and within the structure of a D/s relationship they are often brought to the forefront with rules, contracts, the type of play engaged in, limits and protocal.

Well, what I was really getting at is was this. I as a Domme know what I want out of live, and I know what I want in a submissive. If a submissive wants to have a relationship with Me, he must have the emotional maturity to be able to articulate his needs, and be able to differentiate between his fantasies, that may not be realistic and reality which may be a possiblility. I spend vanilla time with my subs and therefore I strive for a balanced relationship, a mature relationship.

Most of the emotionally immature subs I meet, are incapable of articulating their desires to my satisfaction. All they do is give a laundry list of their fantasies.

Eb

 

[cellis]

I think it is more than just knowing what you want... it is knowing how to get what you want.

Setting goals, being able to follow through and not setting for less... these are important and I don't think that an emtionally immature person can reason these things out.

I love the strength that Eb displays when she talks about the expectations from her subs... and how clear the rules are. Not all of us have that, but those of us that do appreciate it all the more.

Zip I know you were not being cruel in pointing out certain behaviors that we have all been subjected to over the past few days... and mental illness or not, this is still a good example of emotional immaturity... the inability to deal with disappointment. There were a lot of other boundaries that were violated as well... because of the extreme need for attention... there was pushing of limits, disclosures that were unseemly... a lot of very immature behavior...

I think that we call all take note and perhaps learn from all of this. I do not say this to be cruel in any way, but to point out how all of this negative behavior has affected us in some form...

Ok I am stopping now because I am rambling....

 

[zipman]

asnip>
Zip I know you were not being cruel in pointing out certain behaviors that we have all been subjected to over the past few days... and mental illness or not, this is still a good example of emotional immaturity... the inability to deal with disappointment. There were a lot of other boundaries that were violated as well... because of the extreme need for attention... there was pushing of limits, disclosures that were unseemly... a lot of very immature behavior...

I think that we call all take note and perhaps learn from all of this. I do not say this to be cruel in any way, but to point out how all of this negative behavior has affected us in some form...
<snip>

Thank you Cellis. I wasn't trying to be cruel at all. I think most people on this board know that I am not, and I appreciate your acknowledgement of that a great deal.

I think often, people's intentions on this board are mistaken, especially when someone disagree's with another person's opinion. Then all sorts of intentions are attributed to why they disagree.

I really tried to post things that might help Dream. She saw those comments as being "destructive criticism" rather than "constructive criticism." Such was not my intent at all. However, she chose to view them that way and instantly disregarded what I was actually saying.

Similarly, UCE took my response to her post and reacted emotionally to it. I think the trouble begins when people react to a post on an emotional basis as opposed to an intellectual basis. Then the discussion rapidly becomes an argument about the person as opposed to a discussion of a topic.

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone's opinion. If you post on a public board, then the opinions are open for discussion, either to agree or disagree with. This is the nature of a forum/discussion board. If people are going to be upset about people disagreeing with their opinions, then perhaps this is not the best place to post them.

 

[Ebonyfire]

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone's opinion. If you post on a public board, then the opinions are open for discussion, either to agree or disagree with. This is the nature of a forum/discussion board. If people are going to be upset about people disagreeing with their opinions, then perhaps this is not the best place to post them.

Piggybacking...

There are lots of folks who post on this board who are bi-polar, among other mental and physical disorders. It does them a great disservice when one person acts as if the only problems that matter or the only opinions that matter are their own.

We are supposed to be here to share information and ideas about BDSM and/or D/s. When people try to post their opinions in a sensible manner, and others use them as a way to make themselves feel better at the expense of others, they diminish the purpose of the forum (to diseminate information about D/s).
The "I am the center of the universe" mentality is killing this place.

Ebony

 

[catalina_francisco]

Another interesting bump I am sure some would like to contribute to, or not.

 

[Quint]

Self-knowledge, baby.

The thread could've stopped here if it had been on page 1.

 

[FurryFury]

Hmm, what is "emotional age?"

*goes to think*

Fury