Subs and Emotional Age - Sincere Discussion for UCE

[~Dream~]

yes that was an awesome post

by Richard and as far as the links , well come on down (best Bob Barker) impression to my Master's disappoinment thread and I will post them there ,ok? I'm almost SURE HE wont mind His slave bumping His thread lol

 

[Richard49]

Thank you to those that found what I have posted helpful.

Two of the many tools I have learned in NA are

1) Don't give your opinion unless it is asked for
(I have lots of problems with this one )

2) That what I have of value to share with others is ONLY
my experence,strength and hope

It pleases me that what I have is helpful to others

 

[Lancecastor]

Unda;

I'm not exactly sure what you were trying to say in your response to my post, but I can say what I meant in mine.

Here's your list of Hobbies from your linked Yahoo page in your Lit profile:

"More About Me
Hobbies: Extremes, mortification of the flesh and the spirit. Humiliation, degradation, forced suffering, VA, fireplay and other phobia teasing. "

I observed that I find your posts provokative and long.

I think that's a fair statement.

In addition, if you think your statements about how it's "too bad" and "a shame" that people misunderstand you and allegedly twist your words are having any effect on me...sorry kiddo. No sale. I'm not buying it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Chele;

You needn't apologize to me for spilling your guts about the details of your mother's course of treatment...just know that I find your spelling it out in a pissing contest with Unda to be in poor taste on your part.....trading on your mother's illness in a flame war? Ick, IMHO.

Further, my comments about "right & wrong", etc, were not directed at you...they were directed at the discussion itself in support of my view that we all have unique perspectives. Differing in opinion doesn't invalidate our respective opinions...it just means we might share different points of view.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: the Thread Itself

Here's my reply again on what was allegedly the topic to be discussed in the thread.....

"There is also a school of thought which suggests that in order for someone to be a bona fide submissive in the BDSM sense that they must first be a very strong individual...for, the theory goes, it takes more self knowledge than the average person normally possesses to consciously and freely submit to a consensual power exchange. ....My view is that D/s is interesting stuff and that each consensual power exchange is, by its very nature, unique. "

Cheers;

Lance

 

[Ebonyfire]

Exactly

My view is that D/s is interesting stuff and that each consensual power exchange is, by its very nature, unique.

Each consentual power exchange is unique, and therefore our individual experiences are unique, not wrong, but unique.

If you have a viable relationship, and you are posting from your own frame of reference, then it should not invalidate someone else's very different approach and/or relationship.

There is on "one true way" here.

Ebony

 

[artful]

Re: Exactly

Each consentual power exchange is unique, and therefore our individual experiences are unique, not wrong, but unique.

If you have a viable relationship, and you are posting from your own frame of reference, then it should not invalidate someone else's very different approach and/or relationship.

There is no "one true way" here.

Ebony

Sis,...once again I commend your ability to say SO much, with such FEW words. Direct, and to the point. I of course agree with your statement 100%.

 

[Grvdigger]

Not to be smart or anything......but was there not a topic here in the beginning. I read the thread before I left for work and as soon as I came home I checked on it and read through it. Some how when I got to the end the topic that Chele had started with was missing. I for one think it is one for a great debate. New ideas should be looked at, not that they are always right or wrong but it makes Us look at what We think. I for one would love to see the research and what others thoughts on it again. Ty for you time.

 

[SexyChele]

Not to be smart or anything......but was there not a topic here in the beginning. I read the thread before I left for work and as soon as I came home I checked on it and read through it. Some how when I got to the end the topic that Chele had started with was missing. I for one think it is one for a great debate. New ideas should be looked at, not that they are always right or wrong but it makes Us look at what We think. I for one would love to see the research and what others thoughts on it again. Ty for you time.

First, thank you for reading through the thread and bringing back the topic. I do look at what people have said as things they needed to say and or speak out on, so it doesn't upset me that there is a stray post here or there.

As it looks as if the basis of why I started this thread is not going to be realized - that being finding out what the basis of research was - might I propose something else?

Just what do people think of the emotional maturity of subs? I know that I have met/talked to subs who were very "together", very strong, very intelligent. If you saw them "out of character", so to speak, you would never guess at what kinks they were into. Eb's subs come to mind. (I know that you don't like to have your personal life discussed, Eb, but I'm just using the general scenario as an example.) I've also met/talked to subs that seemed more like children walking around in adult bodies. Has anyone noticed a prevalence towards one or the other, or something in between?

I personally don't like to put people in categories, however, it would be interesting to see if people notice/experienced some things that subs have in common. Such as: are they strong, intelligent, indecisive, needy? If you are a sub, how do you perceive yourself? If you are a Dom/me, what qualties do you look for?

And, just to make things a little more interesting, what about Dom/mes? Are the commonalities? What might they be? Are most of the Dom/mes one meets loud, demanding, silent, strong, caring, or distant?

Bottom line: have people noticed a difference in the emotional age of a sub or a Dom/me? Is so, what? If not, why?

Hopefully, we can get some discussion going and find out for ourselves if there are differences, similarities, stereotypes, or individuals.

 

[lark sparrow]

Just what do people think of the emotional maturity of subs? I know that I have met/talked to subs who were very "together", very strong, very intelligent. If you saw them "out of character", so to speak, you would never guess at what kinks they were into. Eb's subs come to mind. (I know that you don't like to have your personal life discussed, Eb, but I'm just using the general scenario as an example.) I've also met/talked to subs that seemed more like children walking around in adult bodies. Has anyone noticed a prevalence towards one or the other, or something in between?

I personally don't like to put people in categories, however, it would be interesting to see if people notice/experienced some things that subs have in common. Such as: are they strong, intelligent, indecisive, needy? If you are a sub, how do you perceive yourself? If you are a Dom/me, what qualties do you look for?

And, just to make things a little more interesting, what about Dom/mes? Are the commonalities? What might they be? Are most of the Dom/mes one meets loud, demanding, silent, strong, caring, or distant?

Bottom line: have people noticed a difference in the emotional age of a sub or a Dom/me? Is so, what? If not, why?

Hopefully, we can get some discussion going and find out for ourselves if there are differences, similarities, stereotypes, or individuals.

I think it goes across the board re: emotional maturity of subs, and Dom/mes for that matter... all extremes and everything in between. People can be very mature in certain areas, and quite immature in other areas... stress, happiness, etc. can also effect one - it's a sliding scale.

UCE's opinion was just that, hers, and I didn't find it threatening (before all the flaming). I don't believe or agree that most subs are emotionally arrested... the only question it raised for me, was in terms of disciplines or punishments. There are some that are taken from childhood such as standing in corners, washing mouth out with soap, spankings, lectures, asking for permission for things most "adults" would never have to, the Dominant having the final word and decision in all things, etc. In this sense there is a bit of a "regression" as an "adult". I have received some of these and it is humbling... as an adult there also has to be adult conversation and communication beyond these actions, but they do exist in BDSM.

I think it's an interesting topic.

 

[Lancecastor]

I personally don't like to put people in categories, however.....

 

[MasterKensbeany]

Good idea

Thank you Chele

Wonderful way to turn a negative into a positive. From my own experience I've found that most subs are intelligent, strong and mature. Men and women who have explored and soul searched and decided to live their lives according to the dictates of their hearts no matter the consequences. Most of the Dominants that I have known seem to be looking for life partners, not extra children to raise.

That being said, I do see an element that are attracted to the lifestyle for those things ...emotionally immature subs looking for someone to take care of them and Dominants looking for children to mother/father and care for. Im not sure how I feel about these relationships personally. On the one hand, I wonder at the consenual aspect involving an emotionally crippled person, on the other hand, if they find happiness together, maybe that's a good thing.

Anyway, just my thoughts on the subject. I hope your questions generate an interesting discussion.

Respectfully
beany

 

[SexyChele]

<Snip>

the only question it raised for me, was in terms of disciplines or punishments. There are some that are taken from childhood such as standing in corners, washing mouth out with soap, spankings, lectures, asking for permission for things most "adults" would never have to, the Dominant having the final word and decision in all things, etc. In this sense there is a bit of a "regression" as an "adult". I have received some of these and it is humbling... as an adult there also has to be adult conversation and communication beyond these actions, but they do exist in BDSM.

I think it's an interesting topic.

I believe the type of punishments you bring up are forms of humiliations, especially in regards to being treated as child. I think this might work for some subs, but not all. However, from what I have observed, it seems that most Dom/mes incorporate these things only when they feel it necessary or when they know a sub responds to it in the way expected.

And, yes, I have to agree - adult conversation and communication is vital to any relationship!

 

[SexyChele]

Now, Lance, you know you are in a category all to yourself!

 

[SexyChele]

Re: Good idea

Thank you Chele

Wonderful way to turn a negative into a positive. From my own experience I've found that most subs are intelligent, strong and mature. Men and women who have explored and soul searched and decided to live their lives according to the dictates of their hearts no matter the consequences. Most of the Dominants that I have known seem to be looking for life partners, not extra children to raise.

That being said, I do see an element that are attracted to the lifestyle for those things ...emotionally immature subs looking for someone to take care of them and Dominants looking for children to mother/father and care for. Im not sure how I feel about these relationships personally. On the one hand, I wonder at the consenual aspect involving an emotionally crippled person, on the other hand, if they find happiness together, maybe that's a good thing.

Anyway, just my thoughts on the subject. I hope your questions generate an interesting discussion.

Respectfully
beany

Thank you, beany!

Your comments made me think of something I hadn't before. It seems that some folks involved in BDSM are also into ageplay, and I wonder if the emotionally immature sub fulfills a certain desire in some Doms to acheive this? I know that my first Dom was into ageplay roleplay, and we tried it a couple of times. While I could play off being the "little girl", it was a very difficult thing for me to do, and eventually I had to tell him it just wasn't something I could do. It just didn't "fit" for me.

However, your comments make me wonder if a sub who is emotionally immature might find this type of play comforting and safe.

This is not to say that if a sub finds he/she enjoys ageplay that he/she is emotionally immature, however. Many times subs can get a sexual charge from this, and some are willing to please their Dom/mes.

 

[artful]

If you are a Dom/me, what qualties do you look for?<snip>
FIRST and foremost, I look for SINCERITY in the subs I have chosen to have a relationship with, (whether it be ONLINE or real life). Have I been FOOLED? You betcha !

SECOND, what is their ATTITUDE?

THIRD, how INTELLIGENT are they?

FOURTH, are they OPEN to being trained MY way?

FIFTH, and I think MOST importantly,...I need to be CHALLENGED. If I am not CHALLENGED, in displaying guidance and leadership, then I am bored.

(In the FIFTH one, please do not think I am speaking of a REBELLIOUS attitude, or brattiness)



Bottom line: have people noticed a difference in the emotional age of a sub or a Dom/me? Is so, what? If not, why?

I don't think emotional age has any more bearing on people in a BDSM relationship, (whether it be Dom/mes, subs, or switches), than with so called VANILLA relationships. I really can't explain WHY,(JMHO),...but it's mine,...and I own it.

 

[Ricckk]

Exactly...

That being said, I do see an element that are attracted to the lifestyle for those things ...emotionally immature subs looking for someone to take care of them and Dominants looking for children to mother/father and care for.

Very astute observation...an "element", not a wholesale attribute of a chosen lifestyle.

 

[lark sparrow]

I believe the type of punishments you bring up are forms of humiliations, especially in regards to being treated as child. I think this might work for some subs, but not all. However, from what I have observed, it seems that most Dom/mes incorporate these things only when they feel it necessary or when they know a sub responds to it in the way expected.

And, yes, I have to agree - adult conversation and communication is vital to any relationship!

Yes Chele, admittedly I think there is a bit of playfulness involved in the ones directly related to childhood, and if they are punishments, they are probably not for serious offenses or breaches within the relationship.

 

[SexyChele]

For Artful...

Sorry, Art, but for some reason the quote thing won't work for your post.

But I did want to say that, in regards to being fooled, I think lots of people can attest to that. It is unfortunate, but it happens in real life, as well as here in cyberspace.

One comment of yours truly stuck out at me, and I'm curious to know more by what you meant. You stated,

"FIFTH, and I think MOST importantly,...I need to be CHALLENGED. If I am not CHALLENGED, in displaying guidance and leadership, then I am bored.

(In the FIFTH one, please do not think I am speaking of a REBELLIOUS attitude, or brattiness)"

I'm curious as to what you mean by challenged. In my mind, it means overcoming a hardship or problem, so I'm thinking I have the wrong meaning here. Or I'm simply not able to understand how you are looking at this. Can you give an example as to what you mean?

And, yes, boredom is a definite killer in most relationships!

 

[artful]

Re: For Artful...

One comment of yours truly stuck out at me, and I'm curious to know more by what you meant. You stated,

"FIFTH, and I think MOST importantly,...I need to be CHALLENGED. If I am not CHALLENGED, in displaying guidance and leadership, then I am bored.

(In the FIFTH one, please do not think I am speaking of a REBELLIOUS attitude, or brattiness)"

I'm curious as to what you mean by challenged. In my mind, it means overcoming a hardship or problem, so I'm thinking I have the wrong meaning here. Or I'm simply not able to understand how you are looking at this. Can you give an example as to what you mean?

And, yes, boredom is a definite killer in most relationships!

Thanks for the question Chele. In explanation of what I meant by CHALLENGED, it merely pertains to TEACHING a sub NEW things. Teaching her things that she has little, to no experience in.

Often, that may as simple as how to perform oral sex that is PLEASUREABLE to *ME*. It can be as complicated as how to perform service oriented tasks, in *SPECIFIC* exact ways.

I share,...in THEIR joy,...of learning and accomplishing, things that only *THEY* are ALLOWED to do for ME. My pleasure is INCREASED by KNOWING I was the one RESPONSIBLE for their joy.

I *give* them an opportunity to learn,...to serve, and it *IS* indeed, a CHALLENGE for me to do this with skill. If I had nothing to teach,...I would be bored.

I hope this answers your question.

 

[NemoAlia]

Here's what I want to know: what are good indicators of emotional maturity?

 

[Richard49]

Here's what I want to know: what are good indicators of emotional maturity?

Honesty,open mindedness and willingness ?

 

[SexyChele]

Here's what I want to know: what are good indicators of emotional maturity?

Now that is a good question, and one that bears some thought/discussion! I'm on my way out, but will be back to *hopefully* give some insight.

I do have to say that I like Richard's line of thinking as a beginning, though!

 

[Grvdigger]

Here's what I want to know: what are good indicators of emotional maturity?

By taking responseablity. When anyone does that, they are showing that they are willing to handle the consequences, good or bad. More should do this and not pass the buck

 

[Ebonyfire]

malesubs

I find that emotional immaturity is not an issue with the males subs that I have relationships with.

I spend a lot of time finding subs who meet my requirements, one of which is a mature attitude.

So I really do not have much to say on this subject.

Eb

 

[Richard49]

Re: malesubs

I spend a lot of time finding subs who meet my requirements, one of which is a mature attitude.

Eb

What does that look like ?

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: malesubs

What does that look like ?

I can't tell you that. I just know it when I see it.

I deal with men. My subs are businessmen, professonals, etc. and have high powered lives, and usually deal with all kinds of people.

I spend time with them in social situations, doing all kinds of things, and if they act like spoiled children, I cut them loose.
Likewise if they do not like me, they can leave too.

Eb