Taboo. Open discussion, no attitude.

[Betticus]

How's this for an example of "unfairness" in our world today!

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/money/tax/article1996735.ece

Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, has criticised the US tax system for allowing him to pay a lower rate than his secretary and his cleaner.

Speaking at a $4,600-a-seat fundraiser in New York for Senator Hillary Clinton, Mr Buffett, who is worth an estimated $52 billion (£26 billion), said: “The 400 of us [here] pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you’re in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent.”

Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. Mr Buffett told his audience, which included John Mack, the chairman of Morgan Stanley, and Alan Patricof, the founder of the US branch of Apax Partners, that US government policy had accentuated a disparity of wealth that hurt the economy by stifling opportunity and motivation.

 

[Betticus]

You said Hey, fuck em! They got that death penalty for taking lives so they might as well be used to help save lives. They get the same choice in the whole matter as their victims got! Makes everything pretty equal.

Sorry Betticus imho that whole statement is based on what you believe is wrong and right and your idea of fairness....so I don't really understand your point.

I reserve the right to be a flaming hypocrite!

I think I should be able to get away with anything and suffer absolutely no repercussions for my actions.

Seriously, if I walked up to the front gate of the White House with a burlap sack in my hand and then showed the guards the decapitated head of Saddam Hussein and asked for my reward.... they'd call someone inside to come out and get it and then the arrangements for my fat paycheck would begin.

Not fair for Saddam Hussein but then I'm not too concerned with his welfare.

 

[Life_Noir]

You said Hey, fuck em! They got that death penalty for taking lives so they might as well be used to help save lives. They get the same choice in the whole matter as their victims got! Makes everything pretty equal.

Sorry Betticus imho that whole statement is based on what you believe is wrong and right and your idea of fairness....so I don't really understand your point.

Hence... The only part of the Chinese policy that makes it less than reprehensable... The execution is carried out...Just as it would have been in any case... The only "moral" question, at that moment is, do we let the remains of this executed criminal go in the ground?..Or do we use them to save the lives of innocent people?
It's not talking about dismembering a living being...But rather harvesting organs from a recent corpse..Just like is done every day in hospitols all across the world.

 

[Life_Noir]

I reserve the right to be a flaming hypocrite!

I think I should be able to get away with anything and suffer absolutely no repercussions for my actions.

Seriously, if I walked up to the front gate of the White House with a burlap sack in my hand and then showed the guards the decapitated head of Saddam Hussein and asked for my reward.... they'd call someone inside to come out and get it and then the arrangements for my fat paycheck would begin.

Not fair for Saddam Hussein but then I'm not too concerned with his welfare.

Nah...It would take them months to decide that it was really him...
Not to mention having some REALLY interesting questions for YOU...
Better walk up in a crown of reporters...Safer that way.

 

[Betticus]

Hence... The only part of the Chinese policy that makes it less than reprehensable... The execution is carried out...Just as it would have been in any case... The only "moral" question, at that moment is, do we let the remains of this executed criminal go in the ground?..Or do we use them to save the lives of innocent people?
It's not talking about dismembering a living being...But rather harvesting organs from a recent corpse..Just like is done every day in hospitols all across the world.

This brings me to cloning. There was some movie with Scarlett Johanssen (rowr) where they were clones bring raised for organ harvesting by their outside world DNA matches.

Scientists have successfully cloned flies but with a little gene tweaking they managed to grow practically brainless and headless flies with viable bodies and everything else including organs. I think that given the ability to attain the resources I should be able to have myself cloned and reap the benefits of an artificially extended life by cannibalizing the tissues of my clones. Maybe someday my brain could just be transplanted into a fresh, young body!

 

[Puman]

Hmmm .....See Larry Nivens "Known Space" {the Gil Hamilton books} series... He put it about as cogently as I have ever heard it.

Thanks Life_Noir... this is an interesting topic and I am keen to read more... will be looking it up.

 

[minx1]

I reserve the right to be a flaming hypocrite!

I think I should be able to get away with anything and suffer absolutely no repercussions for my actions.

Seriously, if I walked up to the front gate of the White House with a burlap sack in my hand and then showed the guards the decapitated head of Saddam Hussein and asked for my reward.... they'd call someone inside to come out and get it and then the arrangements for my fat paycheck would begin.

Not fair for Saddam Hussein but then I'm not too concerned with his welfare.

Umm on the basis he's already dead...I'm not too sure it would be too much of a concern to him either.

 

[Betticus]

Nah...It would take them months to decide that it was really him...
Not to mention having some REALLY interesting questions for YOU...
Better walk up in a crown of reporters...Safer that way.

Then the terrorists would just have a person to try and hunt down for killing their leader. Even though I think that my life and actions should have no repercussions other people don't feel that way. Life just isn't fair!

 

[Betticus]

Umm on the basis he's already dead...I'm not too sure it would be too much of a concern to him either.

I'm working on the assumption that it was me that found Hussein and killed him and cut his noggin off.

 

[minx1]

Hence... The only part of the Chinese policy that makes it less than reprehensable... The execution is carried out...Just as it would have been in any case... The only "moral" question, at that moment is, do we let the remains of this executed criminal go in the ground?..Or do we use them to save the lives of innocent people?
It's not talking about dismembering a living being...But rather harvesting organs from a recent corpse..Just like is done every day in hospitols all across the world.

My problem is with the moral aspect of it not the practical. As I said I find the death penalty abhorrent anyway, I find 'harvesting' people organs without consent as abhorrent. think And yes I understand all the arguments that include 'the person they killed never consented to die' etc. I do not condone murderers and I do not condone that as a method of dealing with them.

 

[minx1]

Anway I have to sleep, which is a shame, cos I am really enjoying this thread lol.

who knows I may return to find ideas of disposing with the rest of the corpse, tomorrow........a nice stock perhaps. Waste not want not and all that

I will definitely come take a look at the taxation stuff Betticus...you may find this hard to believe, but I have some views on that too *grins*

 

[HottieMama]

Does harvesting organs count as blood play?




Sorry...in a strange mood tonight.

 

[catalina_francisco]

My problem is with the moral aspect of it not the practical. As I said I find the death penalty abhorrent anyway, I find 'harvesting' people organs without consent as abhorrent. think And yes I understand all the arguments that include 'the person they killed never consented to die' etc. I do not condone murderers and I do not condone that as a method of dealing with them.

Agreed minx....2 wrongs do not make a right as the saying goes.

Catalina

 

[minx1]

Agreed minx....2 wrongs do not make a right as the saying goes.

Catalina

*grins* Catalina am I glad to see you!

Someone who agrees! Woohoo

 

[Puman]

Does harvesting organs count as blood play?
Sorry...in a strange mood tonight.

.. that's a bloody brilliant post!

 

[Betticus]

Anway I have to sleep, which is a shame, cos I am really enjoying this thread lol.

who knows I may return to find ideas of disposing with the rest of the corpse, tomorrow........a nice stock perhaps. Waste not want not and all that

I will definitely come take a look at the taxation stuff Betticus...you may find this hard to believe, but I have some views on that too *grins*

I think that when you are talking about a typical gang rape it's many men raping one woman or whatever gender makeup it is. It's many vs. few.

With taxes it's the other way around, the few are viciously raping, plundering and pillaging the many. The nation is being raped for the benefit of a few. I'm talking about federal income tax.

 

[Betticus]

Agreed minx....2 wrongs do not make a right as the saying goes.

Catalina

Some people just need killing.

 

[graceanne]

Agreed minx....2 wrongs do not make a right as the saying goes.

Catalina

To tell the truth while I approve of the death penalty this whole, keeping them alive until their organs are needed' thing is GROSS and GOULISH. I'm sorry EW. Beyond that, I'd think it'd be under 'unfair and unusual punishment'. It's bad enough to sit on death row, but to sit even longer waiting until someone needs your organs? I mean, just kill them and get it over with!

 

[Betticus]

Does harvesting organs count as blood play?




Sorry...in a strange mood tonight.

Only if there is no anesthetic. It just occurred to me that the aztec/mayan culture didn't knock out sacrifices before cutting out their hearts. And it would be the last thing you ever feel so why not make it conscious organ donation. Screaming and kicking the whole way.

 

[graceanne]

I think that when you are talking about a typical gang rape it's many men raping one woman or whatever gender makeup it is. It's many vs. few.

With taxes it's the other way around, the few are viciously raping, plundering and pillaging the many. The nation is being raped for the benefit of a few. I'm talking about federal income tax.

Actually as you begin to make more you start to pay more taxes, until you get into the 'rich' bracket. When K was making 30,000ish a year we were paying about 30% to taxes. Now we're down in the 20,000 area, and we're paying about 10%. To tell the truth, our take home income is not a lot different than it was when we were making 30,000 a year.

 

[Betticus]

To tell the truth while I approve of the death penalty this whole, keeping them alive until their organs are needed' thing is GROSS and GOULISH. I'm sorry EW. Beyond that, I'd think it'd be under 'unfair and unusual punishment'. It's bad enough to sit on death row, but to sit even longer waiting until someone needs your organs? I mean, just kill them and get it over with!

But what if they are all jacked up healthwise when they go to prison? You can also use death row inmates for medical testing.

 

[Netzach]

Dammit, I wanted to talk about fantasizing about cutting off innocent people's thumbs as a purely masturbatory sex trip and you want to talk morality.

 

[Betticus]

Actually as you begin to make more you start to pay more taxes, until you get into the 'rich' bracket. When K was making 30,000ish a year we were paying about 30% to taxes. Now we're down in the 20,000 area, and we're paying about 10%. To tell the truth, our take home income is not a lot different than it was when we were making 30,000 a year.

Okay, let's say we abolish the fed, federal reserve banking system and transfer ownership of the mints back to the federal government. Then we remove the 16th amendment and finally, for once, let the "people" decide what the best system for our society is. I don't believe in federal income tax at all, I think the system that was placed by the founding fathers should never have been allowed to be messed with.

If what people are saying is true then the 16th amendment and fed income tax is not a legal, enforcible tax and instead is purely voluntary on an individual basis.

 

[Netzach]

Oy! Libertarian politics the ultimate taboo!

 

[Netzach]

I can just see it, the victim screaming, WITH a hard on

as his tax bracket is read out to him.