The blank check of consent

[h_i_s]

RJ, the answers you get will vary from one relationship to the next. The agreements and degrees of consent vary from one to the next. For many, it's not even about whether or not we are talking about those who live their D/s (M/s or O/p ... whatever, ...*pyl, please*) 24/7 or those who play in the scene at play parties and public dungeuns or the likes..... the definition of and the lines of demarkation regarding the limits of or lack of consent, WILL vary.

The agreements regarding consent between INSIDEYOURMIND and myself have always existed as the following:

The day i became 'His property' i gave Him the blank check of consent. This means that i am expected to obey Him absolutely, and unconditionally, period. As in just do it, and if the need arises, ask questions AFTERWARDS ...... just obey without noteable hesitation, REGARDLESS. *Most* times i have been successful in doing just as is expected of me (meaning since June 2004, i can count on one hand the number of times i have hesitated or failed to *just do*).

In this relationship i am property. It's a given that as His property, He is not limited or restricted in His use of me (within reason... we are NOT talking about silly examples such as outright killing me..... just for the record). It could be compared to owning a car: If i were looking to buy a car but the salesperson expected me to agree to a limitation of say... never drive it on weeknights between the hours of 5pm and 9pm... i'd not be able to enter such an agreement and really FEEL or BELIEVE that i really own that vehicle. i'd have to tell the salesperson that their expectations are unreasonable and not at all what i was looking to sign up for in buying a car.

When i agreed to be InsideYourMind's property, i consened to allow Him unlimited, absolute use without interuption nor restriction as my Owner.

For us, *in this relationship* consent is not ever something that is to be turned on or off. Doing so could be a deal breaker all on it's own...
It has happened that we have been in the heat of a disagreement of sorts and He had demanded a blowjob (just as i had been in midsentence with trying my best to get my point across,). At that moment, i was quick to shut my trap, get down on my knees and simply o-b-e-y.

This is what we both wanted. This is what keeps us both happy in this relationship.

 

[JMohegan]

(So who's the you we're talking about, anyway?)

He means me.

In post 164, RJ wrote: "The sceneros I put forth for this discussion are much like those ink blots that people look at and then are suppose to answer, what they see, only here they put themselves into the scenero and respond."

A Rorschach test.

So in post 167, I asked him what my responses told him about me.

 

[h_i_s]

....the slave has the option, has the choice, day in, day out, command by command, to obey, to consent, or to disobey, withdraw consent, to end the relationship. The fact that the slave chooses to consent does not mean the option is no longer there.

I believe that if the option to withdraw consent truly no longer exists, the slave is no longer a human being with a free will , but an automaton. They are no longer submitting, they are simply performing assigned tasks with the all the motive of a robot.

A husband and wife, also has the option, has the choice, day in, day out, and maintains the right to either continue their relationship in a way that honors and pleases the other or end it.
The fact that they CAN walk away at anytime doesn't make anything less of their vows or their day to day actually honoring those vows just because they CAN walk away.
The fact that a slave/property(pyl) can wake up one day and choose to no longer consent doesn't and should not make anything less of the consent that they continue to give and honor.

A wife and husband are bound by nothing more than the honor of their vows, an Owner and His property ...(PYL/pyl please)... are bound by pretty much the same. i see no difference between either example.

As far as the talk of robots vs right to withdraw consent...

i obey. i obey because it benefits Him, and i ... it benefits the relationship which we share.
i do so without limit. i do it even when i do not wish to. i do it even if it is the last thing i want to do at the moment. i do it if i am well or if i am ill. i do it when i am happy, when i am sad, when i am feeling compliant and docile and when i am feeling everything BUT. i have feelings and my need to honor this relationship between myself and my Owner outweigh everything else that i may feel. i need to honor Him. A robot would not & couldn't. i obey without limit....... BUT i do not obey blindly, and there IS a difference.

Some would say that i can withdraw my consent. The fact that i CAN meaning that i maintain the right to...... means jack to me. While it is certainly true that i maintain the right, ...what i can do and can not do are the key there. The only thing that made and has kept and continues to keep our relationship what it is is our vows... aka being honor bound. i CAN and i WON'T withdraw a single part of myself, nor His access to any part, from INSIDEYOURMIND.

i am as much a slave to maintaining that sense of honor as i am to Him.

P.S. edited to add: i have the right... but it's not MINE. It's something that the L-A-W controls and has imposed upon me... wether i like it or want it or not. Genrally, i'm greatful for that LAW... only because it keeps just any old Tom Dick or Harry from claiming me as their own. It's something that the LAW (aka constitution.. whatever.. you know what i mean blah blah blah) has given me regardless of whether i want it or not. Regarding my Owner, INSIDEYOURMIND, i don't WANT the protection of it....... i'd relinquish that for Him too if He required it and if i could. Cuz He IS all that and the bag of chips ... i do trust Him that much.

 

[RJMasters]

Okay. How do you know?

And also - per your definitions, what is the difference between domineering and Domly?

Because I own a mirror.

Brute force over skill and finesse. The difference between joe the butcher down on the corner and a doctor both saying....let me cut that up and put that in a bag for ya.

 

[RJMasters]

RJ, the answers you get will vary from one relationship to the next. The agreements and degrees of consent vary from one to the next. For many, it's not even about whether or not we are talking about those who live their D/s (M/s or O/p ... whatever, ...*pyl, please*) 24/7 or those who play in the scene at play parties and public dungeuns or the likes..... the definition of and the lines of demarkation regarding the limits of or lack of consent, WILL vary.

The agreements regarding consent between INSIDEYOURMIND and myself have always existed as the following:

The day i became 'His property' i gave Him the blank check of consent. This means that i am expected to obey Him absolutely, and unconditionally, period. As in just do it, and if the need arises, ask questions AFTERWARDS ...... just obey without noteable hesitation, REGARDLESS. *Most* times i have been successful in doing just as is expected of me (meaning since June 2004, i can count on one hand the number of times i have hesitated or failed to *just do*).

In this relationship i am property. It's a given that as His property, He is not limited or restricted in His use of me (within reason... we are NOT talking about silly examples such as outright killing me..... just for the record). It could be compared to owning a car: If i were looking to buy a car but the salesperson expected me to agree to a limitation of say... never drive it on weeknights between the hours of 5pm and 9pm... i'd not be able to enter such an agreement and really FEEL or BELIEVE that i really own that vehicle. i'd have to tell the salesperson that their expectations are unreasonable and not at all what i was looking to sign up for in buying a car.

When i agreed to be InsideYourMind's property, i consened to allow Him unlimited, absolute use without interuption nor restriction as my Owner.

For us, *in this relationship* consent is not ever something that is to be turned on or off. Doing so could be a deal breaker all on it's own...
It has happened that we have been in the heat of a disagreement of sorts and He had demanded a blowjob (just as i had been in midsentence with trying my best to get my point across,). At that moment, i was quick to shut my trap, get down on my knees and simply o-b-e-y.

This is what we both wanted. This is what keeps us both happy in this relationship.

Thank you sinn0cent1 for joining the convo and sharing part of your world and persepctive. You won't get any arguements out of me. I agree it will be different for any number of people depending on where they feel comfortable.

I get that at a point in time you made a decision and now you spend your life living up to that decision. Its not a decision you have to make every single day over and over and over, it has already been settled, now there is nothing left but to live in that. I can understand that and also have no problem reconciling the fact that every day you still have to choose moment by moment to act or obey. I imagine that even that is something that comes so naturally now that it seems trival to mention it.

The fact you are happy makes it clear to me that it was the right decision for you. Thank you again for sharing.

 

[RJMasters]

[mini-hijack]
Why thank you, kind Sir.

I'm sure there are a few things you could put in my slot that would make me spin, but I don't think a CD is one of them.
[/hijack]

Ever hear of a filipino-basket spin?

 

[JMohegan]

Because I own a mirror.

Brute force over skill and finesse. The difference between joe the butcher down on the corner and a doctor both saying....let me cut that up and put that in a bag for ya.

Oh, okay.

Glad I asked about the distinction you make. I'll use your definitions in addressing the part I passed over this morning:

Your intellect is one of your more dominant traits and you rely heavily upon it. However at times you rely upon your intellect too much and when that happens you tend to become domineering rather than display a Domly quality with it (ask me how I know this, grinz.)

This is a very fair comment about me. It is possible to carry logical principles beyond the point at which they function as the most beneficial way to address the situation at hand, and unfortunately I sometimes do this.

Yours is a more polite version of an observation made by a buddy of mine, waaaay back in the day. He said, "Some guys are assholes because they don't think enough. You, Jack, become an asshole when you think too much."

Very astute of you, Dr. Masters. [Either that, or I'm simply transparent.. ]

 

[lil_slave_rose]

As to being told I can't say I know him well enough to know he would not ask me to kill another for him etc., I disagree and perhaps that is what comes from living with a person 24/7 for several years and knowing things and thoughts of theirs that no other living soul on earth knows, not to mention he has a cultural background where honour is a huge chunk of it, especially when you are the only male in the family and have the responsibility of living that role as is expected....he does it very well even when he would prefer to say 'fuck it', he holds to his code of honour and always has without question. Add to that he was a political refugee as a child, dodged bullets as part of that history, and from that and his upbringing, developed a strong ethic about killing others, abuse, discrimination, political oppression, and in general living a code of existance which holds no honour....so yes, I can say he would not ask it of me or anyone because of that strong honour code and ethic, and because he does not believe it falls under the right of a Dominant and has no part in BDSM and a big part in abuse of which he has seen enough to know he wants no part of. I'm sorry if you do not feel the same and see D/s as a licence to request and expect murder, rape etc., to be carried out.

hi cat! i do agree with most of what you are saying, but let me tell you a story about my ex boyfriend who is now in Jail and has been for almost 2 years. i lived with this man for almost 6 years, so imagine my shock and horror when cops came in with guns drawn pushing me away from my door, reading me a warrent to search my home for 'child pornography' i stood there going what? who? huh? and FINALLY child protective services comes in and tells me taht for the last year Todd (my ex and father of my son) had been molesting my daughter (she was 11 at the time) my first thought was, of course, no flippin way!! he wouldn't do that!! i KNOW HIM very well, what are you talking about?

and then, as they were telling me they were taking my children out of my home until it was sorted out, and i had called Him to get his ass home and he pulled up, and they took him to the cop car to talk to him, that maybe i didn't know him at all anymore. he confessed to molesting my daughter, thankfully it was no where near as bad as it could have been and my daughter is fine, and has dealt with all the issues from it that she can right now but who knows when she gets older and sex starts becoming a part of her life, anyway, this was not meant to go into a history on me, but only to say, that i lived with this man for almost 6 years of my life, yes, there were reasons he 'snapped' but i wont' go into those as it will sound like i'm making excuses for him, but what i'm saying is, sometimes the one person who we dont' think will do the unthinkable, does the unthinkable. i'm not saying that F will, ever would or whatever, but it's impossible for me to say that i know ANYONE well enough to know that they will NEVER do the unthinkable..i used to think i KNEW..but i was dead wrong....

 

[catalina_francisco]

hi cat! i do agree with most of what you are saying, but let me tell you a story about my ex boyfriend who is now in Jail and has been for almost 2 years. i lived with this man for almost 6 years, so imagine my shock and horror when cops came in with guns drawn pushing me away from my door, reading me a warrent to search my home for 'child pornography' i stood there going what? who? huh? and FINALLY child protective services comes in and tells me taht for the last year Todd (my ex and father of my son) had been molesting my daughter (she was 11 at the time) my first thought was, of course, no flippin way!! he wouldn't do that!! i KNOW HIM very well, what are you talking about?

and then, as they were telling me they were taking my children out of my home until it was sorted out, and i had called Him to get his ass home and he pulled up, and they took him to the cop car to talk to him, that maybe i didn't know him at all anymore. he confessed to molesting my daughter, thankfully it was no where near as bad as it could have been and my daughter is fine, and has dealt with all the issues from it that she can right now but who knows when she gets older and sex starts becoming a part of her life, anyway, this was not meant to go into a history on me, but only to say, that i lived with this man for almost 6 years of my life, yes, there were reasons he 'snapped' but i wont' go into those as it will sound like i'm making excuses for him, but what i'm saying is, sometimes the one person who we dont' think will do the unthinkable, does the unthinkable. i'm not saying that F will, ever would or whatever, but it's impossible for me to say that i know ANYONE well enough to know that they will NEVER do the unthinkable..i used to think i KNEW..but i was dead wrong....

I can understand what you are saying, but for us we have the unusual situation of being together almost 24/7....he doesn't even visit his friends without me anymore, nor does he have hobbies so he has an excuse to be elsewhere. When he is at home, he is on his laptop or spending time with me...while he is on his laptop, it is in view to me wherever I am in the room, so I know what he is doing there as well though I rarely bother looking anymore as he is playing a game with my son at the moment which holds little interest for me, or working which means I will be called at some point if he needs an english speaking editor. Add to that our distance problem in the beginning, which due to our dislike of playing online and our desire to be talking online or the phone almost 20 hours a day, meant all we could do was talk about things we believed and were. One of the first things I learned about him and which has been emphasised since living under one roof is he abhors dishonesty, I don't mean he doesn't like it or it upsets him, he absolutely finds it disgusting and unforgiveable and feels it as important for him to also be honest.

What I found with online was that people have a terrible habit of tripping themselves up over a stretch of time, often unawares, if they are telling you anything but the truth...and of course his friends were all fairly conservative and proper, so any discrepancies would have shown sooner or later once I was here. I always found listening was the best thing for finding gaps in a story.....with him there never was, and since coming here, without my saying anything but people like employers, work colleagues, friends and family talking freely to me about him and how happy they are for us, they have repeated what I already had heard from him and seen for myself. LOL, he doesn't get called a gentleman often for nothing. Of course, he also had to go through my method of checking before we met, and he came through with flying colours without ever knowing I was checking out if he was all he said he was and really was committed to us. Then I have also talked to his former sub who he lived with for a couple of years...she actualy was hoping he would ask her to come back and join us.

I don't believe it is a very usual situation to know your partner so well, but I do believe a lot of it has to do with both who we are in personality, and how our relationship has developed. Sometimes I wonder if it is healthy to be so involved with each other that one hardly breathes without the other. ROFL, I even wake through the night to find his arms around me, or at the least him holding my hand or some other bodily part. And yes, sometimes I curse under my breathe because he insists on my company whenever possible, even just to go up to the service station for something, and also work...sometimes I am in the middle of something and have to drop it to go with him and then can't get back into it when I come back so it at times frustrates me but I still think I am blessed he wants me by his side so much. Admittedly, there was one area which changed after I moved here, but it was something I had suspected might, but which he was completely caught off guard by, so it was not unexpected by me, but did mean a lot of soul searching for us...nothing evil and dark though, just life. I know my mother used to tell me she had this type relationship with her first husband and I used to think it wasn't possible and quite unbelieveable, but it is and she has also noticed in us that connection her husband and she had which brings her peace...maybe it is something you can't appreciate fully for its rarity until it happens in your own life. I know for me, I was not prepared to enter another marriage or long term commitment if there was any possibility of secrets and a lack of knowing on this level....that is why I chose to remain single for around 16 years and expected to stay that way...but then he came into my life and nothing could be the same ever again.

Catalina

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I can understand what you are saying, but for us we have the unusual situation of being together almost 24/7....he doesn't even visit his friends without me anymore, nor does he have hobbies so he has an excuse to be elsewhere. When he is at home, he is on his laptop or spending time with me...while he is on his laptop, it is in view to me wherever I am in the room, so I know what he is doing there as well though I rarely bother looking anymore as he is playing a game with my son at the moment which holds little interest for me, or working which means I will be called at some point if he needs an english speaking editor. Add to that our distance problem in the beginning, which due to our dislike of playing online and our desire to be talking online or the phone almost 20 hours a day, meant all we could do was talk about things we believed and were. One of the first things I learned about him and which has been emphasised since living under one roof is he abhors dishonesty, I don't mean he doesn't like it or it upsets him, he absolutely finds it disgusting and unforgiveable and feels it as important for him to also be honest.

What I found with online was that people have a terrible habit of tripping themselves up over a stretch of time, often unawares, if they are telling you anything but the truth...and of course his friends were all fairly conservative and proper, so any discrepancies would have shown sooner or later once I was here. I always found listening was the best thing for finding gaps in a story.....with him there never was, and since coming here, without my saying anything but people like employers, work colleagues, friends and family talking freely to me about him and how happy they are for us, they have repeated what I already had heard from him and seen for myself. LOL, he doesn't get called a gentleman often for nothing. Of course, he also had to go through my method of checking before we met, and he came through with flying colours without ever knowing I was checking out if he was all he said he was and really was committed to us. Then I have also talked to his former sub who he lived with for a couple of years...she actualy was hoping he would ask her to come back and join us.

I don't believe it is a very usual situation to know your partner so well, but I do believe a lot of it has to do with both who we are in personality, and how our relationship has developed. Sometimes I wonder if it is healthy to be so involved with each other that one hardly breathes without the other. ROFL, I even wake through the night to find his arms around me, or at the least him holding my hand or some other bodily part. And yes, sometimes I curse under my breathe because he insists on my company whenever possible, even just to go up to the service station for something, and also work...sometimes I am in the middle of something and have to drop it to go with him and then can't get back into it when I come back so it at times frustrates me but I still think I am blessed he wants me by his side so much. Admittedly, there was one area which changed after I moved here, but it was something I had suspected might, but which he was completely caught off guard by, so it was not unexpected by me, but did mean a lot of soul searching for us...nothing evil and dark though, just life. I know my mother used to tell me she had this type relationship with her first husband and I used to think it wasn't possible and quite unbelieveable, but it is and she has also noticed in us that connection her husband and she had which brings her peace...maybe it is something you can't appreciate fully for its rarity until it happens in your own life. I know for me, I was not prepared to enter another marriage or long term commitment if there was any possibility of secrets and a lack of knowing on this level....that is why I chose to remain single for around 16 years and expected to stay that way...but then he came into my life and nothing could be the same ever again.

Catalina

*smiles* i know what you're saying and i understand fully. i met Todd online as well, when he came here for the first time, my sister and my dad asked for hi Social Security number and drivers license..they did a background check, nothing came up...after being here for about 3 years, he was employed at a government installation that guarded the chemical agent known as VX.....before he got that job, they did extensive background checks, things happened to him while he was working there....and well...he snapped..he was not the same person that i had fallen in love with....that's all i'm saying..never is a big word. though really i think we've gotten off topic, and i am in no way trying to 'convince' you that F is going to do the unthinkable, because i'm sure he won't, i'm just saying....well i think you got my point

 

[BeachGurl2]

Ever hear of a filipino-basket spin?

Hmmm, no, but it sounds interesting. Care to educate me?

 

[BeachGurl2]

Yours is a more polite version of an observation made by a buddy of mine, waaaay back in the day. He said, "Some guys are assholes because they don't think enough. You, Jack, become an asshole when you think too much."

Very astute of you, Dr. Masters. [Either that, or I'm simply transparent.. ]

*chuckle*

I realize this wasn't addressed to me, but just had to laugh a bit when I read it. You aren't transparent, but I can see the similarities between the two of you and I can agree with the statement. I'm sure others here do as well. However, JM, that's not necessarily a bad thing. The reason that many people see it as negative is because they don't think nearly as much as you do. (And maybe it makes you seem more domineering, but I've been accused of basically the same thing and I'm not Domly at all.) Personally, I see it in a much more positive light. Just makes me want to debate the issue further with you.

 

[RJMasters]

Hmmm, no, but it sounds interesting. Care to educate me?

A man lays on a table and a female grabs the base of his hardned cock and holds it so it is pointing striaght up in the air.

A woman is then lowwered in a filipino-basket which looks a lot like a fishnet of sorts where the bottom is cut out. Think like a hammock where the ends are doubled over and attached together with the woman sitting indian style inside the netting slightly leaned forward.

She is then lowwered until just the head of the man's cock is inside her. The one holding the cock's base is squeezing it acting much like a cock ring with her fingers so that the blood is trapped making the cock swell with blood and become ridge, then she slowly spins the woman around and a around while she also gives a bit of a handjob.

When thinking of inserting things and spinning, a filipino-basket spin tops the list.

 

[BeachGurl2]

A man lays on a table and a female grabs the base of his hardned cock and holds it so it is pointing striaght up in the air.

A woman is then lowwered in a filipino-basket which looks a lot like a fishnet of sorts where the bottom is cut out. Think like a hammock where the ends are doubled over and attached together with the woman sitting indian style inside the netting slightly leaned forward.

She is then lowwered until just the head of the man's cock is inside her. The one holding the cock's base is squeezing it acting much like a cock ring with her fingers so that the blood is trapped making the cock swell with blood and become ridge, then she slowly spins the woman around and a around while she also gives a bit of a handjob.

When thinking of inserting things and spinning, a filipino-basket spin tops the list.

Oh my.

 

[marieR19]

i obey. i obey because it benefits Him, and i ... it benefits the relationship which we share.
i do so without limit. i do it even when i do not wish to. i do it even if it is the last thing i want to do at the moment. i do it if i am well or if i am ill. i do it when i am happy, when i am sad, when i am feeling compliant and docile and when i am feeling everything BUT. i have feelings and my need to honor this relationship between myself and my Owner outweigh everything else that i may feel. i need to honor Him. A robot would not & couldn't. i obey without limit....... BUT i do not obey blindly, and there IS a difference.

Some would say that i can withdraw my consent. The fact that i CAN meaning that i maintain the right to...... means jack to me. While it is certainly true that i maintain the right, ...what i can do and can not do are the key there. The only thing that made and has kept and continues to keep our relationship what it is is our vows... aka being honor bound. i CAN and i WON'T withdraw a single part of myself, nor His access to any part, from INSIDEYOURMIND.

i am as much a slave to maintaining that sense of honor as i am to Him.

P.S. edited to add: i have the right... but it's not MINE. It's something that the L-A-W controls and has imposed upon me... wether i like it or want it or not. Genrally, i'm greatful for that LAW... only because it keeps just any old Tom Dick or Harry from claiming me as their own. It's something that the LAW (aka constitution.. whatever.. you know what i mean blah blah blah) has given me regardless of whether i want it or not. Regarding my Owner, INSIDEYOURMIND, i don't WANT the protection of it....... i'd relinquish that for Him too if He required it and if i could. Cuz He IS all that and the bag of chips ... i do trust Him that much.

.......... And this is the kind of full, complete submissiveness that I could never see myself doing. I am in awe at you and at your relationship, and I love hearing about a D/s relationship that is so (complete? solid? bonded?) that it can be taken to that depth. That is the kind of thing my fantasies are made of, but I know I do not possess the ability to do it in reality.


Heather

 

[lil_slave_rose]

i bolded the line above because i agree with it 100%. there is absolutely nothing, without exception, that i would REFUSE to do for my Master if he so ordered. as his slave, that was a privilege i gave up when i agreed to this thing. now, does that make him capable of giving any order or demanding any extreme? no. does it make me capable of obeying any order? no. i am still me, and i have my limitations, which imo defer greatly from limits. for instance, if he ordered me to lift 400 lbs, i would immediately rush to obey, but my physical limitations would prevent me from succeeding. however, that would not stop me from trying, and putting my whole self into the trying...WHATEVER the command.

i disagree with Catalina and Francisco on the point of abuse not falling the umbrella of D/s. D/s is not immune to abuse. abuse does not negate D/s. not in my world. D/s is life...***** with all of its beauty as well as all of its suffering. were my Master to abuse me (which he has every right to do)...abuse another (which he has no right to do)...he would still be my Master, and my life would still be in his hands.

perhaps this makes me, in Geoff's (and likely many others) eyes anyhow, a not sane, not healthy individual. oh well. luckily for me i found someone who appreciates my crazy arse, and wouldn't accept or tolerate anything different. of course, i feel quite confident that this person would never tell me to commit murder, molest small children, or become a serial rapist keeping his victims in underground cellars. but we weren't discussing reality right, just ridiculous extremes?

there is a difference between abuse and Dominance. if He were to abuse you i would think that would fall outside the realm of D/s. there are enough abusers out there who hide behind the title of "Dominant" i don't care if it's a TPE or not, abuse is abuse and NO ONE has the right to abuse anyone. when i gave up control to my Master i gave it to Him trusting Him not to abuse that power, if He were to abuse me and then use the excuse that He is Master and i am slave i would have to tell Him where to shove it. maybe this comes from me being in an abusive relationship for more than 10 years, and feeling like i deserved it because he was the man and whatever he wanted to do to me i should just accept it and move on, i'm not that person anymore, and i've handed over control of my life to this Man, if He were to abuse the power He has over me, He would NOT be in within His rights as my Master, He would be an asshat...plain and simple.

 

[ownedsubgal]

there is a difference between abuse and Dominance. if He were to abuse you i would think that would fall outside the realm of D/s. there are enough abusers out there who hide behind the title of "Dominant" i don't care if it's a TPE or not, abuse is abuse and NO ONE has the right to abuse anyone. when i gave up control to my Master i gave it to Him trusting Him not to abuse that power, if He were to abuse me and then use the excuse that He is Master and i am slave i would have to tell Him where to shove it. maybe this comes from me being in an abusive relationship for more than 10 years, and feeling like i deserved it because he was the man and whatever he wanted to do to me i should just accept it and move on, i'm not that person anymore, and i've handed over control of my life to this Man, if He were to abuse the power He has over me, He would NOT be in within His rights as my Master, He would be an asshat...plain and simple.

yes there is a difference between abuse and Dominance, but the two are not mutually exclusive either. to me a Dominant is still a human being, and as such is still capable of anger, cruelty, abuse, and any other human trait. this makes him no less Dominant, tho perhaps it will make him the wrong sort of Dominant for someone like you.

for some abuse negates any D/s or M/s relationship, however some of us feel differently. if i have given myself to a man as his property, but then say "well, but he has no right to ever abuse me"...that would be placing my own limits and attempting to hold power in the relationship...which imo negates such a relationship.

 

[Netzach]

I'm inclined to agree with this (though I'm not sure who "you" is). Someone who is so certain of this belief must, by necessity, have a very broad definition of "good reasons." The fact is, we are all human. If you want someone who will always drop to her knees and suck, every time, then you have to get a dick-sucking robot, not a human being. To expect that a submissive never be pouty, or have a bit of tummy upset, or be annoyed because you're interrupting something she's working on, is to set yourself up for disappointment.

Now, maybe it's just a matter of frequency; maybe as long as she is willing most of the time is enough. As long as she only displays her poutiness once in a while, you'll keep her. But to say "she better have a good reason every time she grumbles, or she's out the door" is going to make life harder for you than for her.

(So who's the you we're talking about, anyway?)

Huh?

I hopefully have talked about the issue of blowjobs enough with said woman before getting into it to know if we're remotely on the same page. I'd say a 90% or better compliance ratio is stellar, and if I suddenly find out that she triggers really bad on something she said she loved when we were getting to know one another I'm dealing with someone who negotiates with lies and omissions. There are issues way outside of fellatio here.

If she develops really bad TMJ after 3 years together, well then that's life. In my world, she would have to deal with me getting my dick sucked by someone else, but she'd have known that up front.

PS. dear world I HATE the term "negotiation" for D/s. I don't negotiate, I discuss.

 

[Netzach]

yes there is a difference between abuse and Dominance, but the two are not mutually exclusive either. to me a Dominant is still a human being, and as such is still capable of anger, cruelty, abuse, and any other human trait. this makes him no less Dominant, tho perhaps it will make him the wrong sort of Dominant for someone like you.

for some abuse negates any D/s or M/s relationship, however some of us feel differently. if i have given myself to a man as his property, but then say "well, but he has no right to ever abuse me"...that would be placing my own limits and attempting to hold power in the relationship...which imo negates such a relationship.

If I want to have an irrational tirade, throw something at H and slap him in the face, that's not a dealbreaker from where he sits. It's just not. There are a lot of people who would say that's not OK or it's not D/s or it's not right, but it's not outside the scope of the acceptable range of outcomes we agreed to when we decided that the idea of ownership entered into it.The difference between dv and this is the degree of awareness, discussion, agreement and transparency around it. But even the amount of discussion over it has waned a lot.

 

[Etoile]

I'd say a 90% or better compliance ratio is stellar

That's pretty much the same thing I said. Just that nobody is a dick-sucking robot, basically. I was surprised that I heard (or thought I heard) someone say "if she's not a dick-sucking robot, the relationship won't last long." Apparently I was a bit off in my interpretation, and that wasn't what was said, but it is what I was responding to.

 

[RJMasters]

That's pretty much the same thing I said. Just that nobody is a dick-sucking robot, basically. I was surprised that I heard (or thought I heard) someone say "if she's not a dick-sucking robot, the relationship won't last long." Apparently I was a bit off in my interpretation, and that wasn't what was said, but it is what I was responding to.

This made me think of Lucy Lou robot and Fry on Futurama

Lucy Lou: "oh I just love to suck your cock...{Philip J. Fry}"

 

[h_i_s]

NOT directed at anyone. This thread had me thinking and since i'm drinking my coffee and have the time, and am not yet awake enough to feel like starting on my work for the day...i'm going to get a bit long winded.... just for the sake of tossing some thoughts out there to those who maynot have gone this route yet, in their own thinking.........

The answer to why and the reason for many having this block of understanding of how another in a D/s relationship can claim to have no limits is simple: Far too LIMITED in their thinking to begin with. Far too limited in their abilities to be open minded enough to understand that there are a million and one ways and combinations which make up all the million and one ways in which people LIVE and define their relationships.

The way i see it: In regard to lifestyles and relationships, if you can imagine it, someone somewhere out there is probably LIVING it.

Right now, the relationship between INSIDEYOURMIND and i has grown in a direction and to an extreme which no longer allows it to fit many of the standards. We are more likely outside of the loop than in when compared to most who participate in discussions like the ones on these boards (not to say that we are better or less than... am just clarifying that we are a bit different and can't fill the one size fits all examples AT ALL) As a result, i have grown to love the acronym: PYL . When i first started exchanging ideas on these boards a few years ago, for me 'pyl' referred to titles and D/s orientation. Even that has taken on a new extreme for He and i because now PYL applies to the WHOLE PICTURE ... and not just the charactors involved. We won't refer to ourselves as D/s... haven't in a good amount of time now.... we are better described as O/p as in Owner/property or M/s as in Master/slave.

He doesn't allow me to limit His use of me. By His decision i am not allowed limits, i'm not allowed to tell Him 'NO' (if fear grips be VERY deeply.. i'm allowed to state that i 'can't', at which point he MIGHT decide to stop or adjust whatever..... and He usually chooses NOT TO). i don't have limits. HE is the one who has and decides the limits. They are not even mine to claim. i do not get to set nor am i allowed to pick and choose limits.

We don't fit the description of TPE. When applied to our relationship that acronym doesn't fit. We do not exchange power. He took the power (with my consent, of course) about 3 years ago and has held that ball in His court ever since. We do not have a power exchange because it always stays with Him, it's not anything which we share or take turns with.

It would be more fitting to say that we entered into a relationship of which an instance of absolute surrendered authority had taken place and continues. He has the authority to do whatever He decides serves His and our interests well... period. i have the authority to obey Him and respect whatever decisions He makes for Himself and us. (And .. worth noting: not a doormat, not a robot... because in His opinion i am simply a very respectful and obedient and for those very reasons, a very valuable piece of property).

It's so much easier to understand each other when we are willing to accept and tolerate differences rather than deny them all together. It makes for a better time too. That's just how i see it.... that's what works for me (most days .. heh).

 

[ownedsubgal]

sinn0cent, very well put!

 

[h_i_s]

That's pretty much the same thing I said. Just that nobody is a dick-sucking robot, basically. I was surprised that I heard (or thought I heard) someone say "if she's not a dick-sucking robot, the relationship won't last long." Apparently I was a bit off in my interpretation, and that wasn't what was said, but it is what I was responding to.

What is wrong with being a dick-sucking-robot?

The phrase "if she's not a dick-sucking robot, the relationship won't last long." there have been times when that could apply VERY well to the relationship between INSIDEYOURMIND and i..... in fact, it has applied at times.....and it has fit perfectly when it HAS.

To explain, i love giving Him oral. He loves it almost as much. But sometimes, i am just not in the mood, am not feeling well, or am too tired, or think i am too busy etc ect...... but i suck His dick anyway. i do it and i do it well and without complaining but as RARE as it happens....it does happen at times that 'my enjoying it too' isn't part of that equation. At that point i say, call me a dick-sucking-robot and watch me beam with pride.......... because all that matters to this dick-sucking-robot at that moment is that i am pleasing to Him.

For some, there is NOTHING wrong with being a dick-sucking-robot if that is what the relationship requires.










Heheh... a change in title may be in order here.

 

[RJMasters]

NOT directed at anyone. This thread had me thinking and since i'm drinking my coffee and have the time, and am not yet awake enough to feel like starting on my work for the day...i'm going to get a bit long winded.... just for the sake of tossing some thoughts out there to those who maynot have gone this route yet, in their own thinking.........

The answer to why and the reason for many having this block of understanding of how another in a D/s relationship can claim to have no limits is simple: Far too LIMITED in their thinking to begin with. Far too limited in their abilities to be open minded enough to understand that there are a million and one ways and combinations which make up all the million and one ways in which people LIVE and define their relationships.

The way i see it: In regard to lifestyles and relationships, if you can imagine it, someone somewhere out there is probably LIVING it.

Right now, the relationship between INSIDEYOURMIND and i has grown in a direction and to an extreme which no longer allows it to fit many of the standards. We are more likely outside of the loop than in when compared to most who participate in discussions like the ones on these boards (not to say that we are better or less than... am just clarifying that we are a bit different and can't fill the one size fits all examples AT ALL) As a result, i have grown to love the acronym: PYL . When i first started exchanging ideas on these boards a few years ago, for me 'pyl' referred to titles and D/s orientation. Even that has taken on a new extreme for He and i because now PYL applies to the WHOLE PICTURE ... and not just the charactors involved. We won't refer to ourselves as D/s... haven't in a good amount of time now.... we are better described as O/p as in Owner/property or M/s as in Master/slave.

He doesn't allow me to limit His use of me. By His decision i am not allowed limits, i'm not allowed to tell Him 'NO' (if fear grips be VERY deeply.. i'm allowed to state that i 'can't', at which point he MIGHT decide to stop or adjust whatever..... and He usually chooses NOT TO). i don't have limits. HE is the one who has and decides the limits. They are not even mine to claim. i do not get to set nor am i allowed to pick and choose limits.

We don't fit the description of TPE. When applied to our relationship that acronym doesn't fit. We do not exchange power. He took the power (with my consent, of course) about 3 years ago and has held that ball in His court ever since. We do not have a power exchange because it always stays with Him, it's not anything which we share or take turns with.

It would be more fitting to say that we entered into a relationship of which an instance of absolute surrendered authority had taken place and continues. He has the authority to do whatever He decides serves His and our interests well... period. i have the authority to obey Him and respect whatever decisions He makes for Himself and us. (And .. worth noting: not a doormat, not a robot... because in His opinion i am simply a very respectful and obedient and for those very reasons, a very valuable piece of property).

It's so much easier to understand each other when we are willing to accept and tolerate differences rather than deny them all together. It makes for a better time too. That's just how i see it.... that's what works for me (most days .. heh).

I like the thoughts you expressed here on TPE. That's always been something that has kind of made me scratch my head too. I have understood how people have used it and have never really seen it all that important to go through the nit pick process to point out that if you have surrended all power, then how can it be exchanged?

I have always chalked it up to semantics. But the way you express it here has a tuning fork ring to it where my thoughts are concerned and for me it has always been kind of the difference between being a submissive and being a slave. At least that is what I have always thought.

Thanks