The Doormat Discussion

[Homburg]

I love when people discuss me as if I'm not even in the "room," so to speak. Perhaps I should start referring to myself in the third person in this thread. That'd be hot.

Dammit, I didn't notice this earlier. It would've been perfect for a "Hush up, honey. The menfolk are talking," response.

Damn missed opportunities...

 

[ataxia.girl]

first, the assumption that submissiveness/yielding is only triggered by a Dominant. second, the failure to acknowledge that there are submissives who are not able to split or camouflage their true nature. and thirdly, the implication that the lack of this ability is a negative. grrr.

Yeah i thought that as well. They go all out and then cover their asses and go PC at the end. i can say no actually but its super awkward. It feels so forced and artificial and over the top almost, exaggerated like. i can do it but i don't feel all good about my decision afterward the way i think i should, not that i feel good about my "decision" when i just do what they ask. Feeling good about my "decisions" is all about being owned and whether or not they approve of them.

In this day and age it is taken for granted that it is better to make your own decisions and not need external validation. i don't believe i'll ever feel okay without it.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Dammit, I didn't notice this earlier. It would've been perfect for a "Hush up, honey. The menfolk are talking," response.

Being talked about like you aren't there is one of the ultimate turn-ons. Love it.

 

[BiBunny]

Dammit, I didn't notice this earlier. It would've been perfect for a "Hush up, honey. The menfolk are talking," response.

Damn missed opportunities...

Bwahahahaha! I you out loud, seriously.

Being talked about like you aren't there is one of the ultimate turn-ons. Love it.

Yep. Well...only if the talker has the panache to pull it off.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Being talked about like you aren't there is one of the ultimate turn-ons. Love it.

i dig it too, tho wouldn't describe it as a turn-on. but it does remind me of my lowly status in the world, plus it gives me carte blanche to zone out lol.

 

[JMohegan]

a question: would it be safe to conclude then that your personal concept of submissive must include the conscious choice to yield to the will of the others, and receiving pleasure/fulfillment in doing so? and if so, if those factors are not present (choice, pleasure)...how would you label it?

I don't believe that people choose their personalities, no. The submissive personality is what it is, by nature or nurture, and not chosen by the individual him/herself.

 

[YourCaptor]

i take a certain amount of enjoyment in being miserable.

Coming from you, that is really interesting… in a “lets drill, wire into those neurons and see what your brain looks like in that state.”

Another reason I’ll never be an “ist”

if i, osg, ever met you, Keroin, in real life?

Ahem, that would be hot

I can see it now

“OSG, just take it. K, you got to outdo OSG. Now!… lets begin”

Not to mention the black/white skin contrast, on some deserted tropical island.

Damn, this like a paradise vision.

 

[JMohegan]

Sure, I've been around plenty of them. The vibe I get is that my needs come before theirs and they aim to please. It often makes me uncomfortable because I'm a pleaser. And that always makes me laugh - if I've been made uncomfortable because they're busy pleasing me, then are they really pleasing me?

Ha! This is funny, but also highlights a really good point.

Eagerness to please and ability to please are not always the same thing. Which is why I said that "when appropriately directed" I find the eagerness to please very arousing.

 

[eastern sun]

Eagerness to please and ability to please are not always the same thing.

I totally agree. In my opinion, if anything contributes to the "maturity" of the submissive, it is learning this lesson.

 

[ultramarineblue]

I totally agree. In my opinion, if anything contributes to the "maturity" of the submissive, it is learning this lesson.

You always manage to pull out the sentence that I need to read in other's posts. Thank you.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I don't believe that people choose their personalities, no. The submissive personality is what it is, by nature or nurture, and not chosen by the individual him/herself.

of course. i wasn't asking whether or not you feel people choose to be submissive...but whether or not you feel there must be conscious choice (as well as fulfillment of some kind) in the act of submitting itself.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Like YC intimates, I'm enough of an egomaniac that I see how people really like the notion that they're special as the object of abject worship.

do you think this is what makes doormat-types so unattractive to most Dominants? it denies them that heady ego rush of knowing someone is bending knee only to them and their awesome greatness?

 

[Netzach]

do you think this is what makes doormat-types so unattractive to most Dominants? it denies them that heady ego rush of knowing someone is bending knee only to them and their awesome greatness?

In a nutshell, yes. Or at least to them for some reason having to do with them, and not just any fucker in the room.

Look, don't forget FemDom culture. It's not so crazy of me to want to know that I'm eliciting response not merely because I am

A. present.
B. Have a pussy.

 

[Homburg]

do you think this is what makes doormat-types so unattractive to most Dominants? it denies them that heady ego rush of knowing someone is bending knee only to them and their awesome greatness?

This raises some interesting questions for me. Yes, I like exclusivity, but I don't mind if a woman is of submissive bent outside the relationship. I don't really *get* the ones that are dominant and ooo-rah headstrong everywhere else but but meek in that one compartment. I understand it logically, but it is not some value-added thing for me.

Yet I do have an absolute expectation of unwavering loyalty and obedience. Colouring outside the lines is verboten. So I am apparently not an egomaniac, just possessive.

My friend AP is like this, and says often that he isn't interested in a doormat. For him, the appearance of conquest is important. I don't get that. If it is a real on-going conquest, that sounds like too much damned work to me, and too fractious a relationship. If it is fake conquest, well, it's fake. Bleh. Fine for a scene here or there, but I don't want a steady diet of it.

--

In a nutshell, yes. Or at least to them for some reason having to do with them, and not just any fucker in the room.

Look, don't forget FemDom culture. It's not so crazy of me to want to know that I'm eliciting response not merely because I am

A. present.
B. Have a pussy.

I do understand this. I have been in situations where I had the very strong impression that I was being looked at lustfully because I have a dick and I'm dominant. Pretty much an instant turn-off. It's fine if it is just casual play or something, but not someone that wants me to get into their pants just because of that combination of genitalia and dominance.

 

[ownedsubgal]

In a nutshell, yes. Or at least to them for some reason having to do with them, and not just any fucker in the room.

Look, don't forget FemDom culture. It's not so crazy of me to want to know that I'm eliciting response not merely because I am

A. present.
B. Have a pussy.

that seems like a different kind of thing tho, from my limited observations/readings. i'm with Homburg, those super eager subbie guys begging to lick boots or be your houseboy read more "horny" than submissive personality who just can't help but to surrender to you.

 

[00Syd]

In a nutshell, yes. Or at least to them for some reason having to do with them, and not just any fucker in the room.

Look, don't forget FemDom culture. It's not so crazy of me to want to know that I'm eliciting response not merely because I am

A. present.
B. Have a pussy.

Its not just femdom's. I'm submissive and yet would LOVE it if just once I was chatted up for reasons other than A and B. Unfortunately, so far, those seem to be my only good qualities.

 

[00Syd]

that seems like a different kind of thing tho, from my limited observations/readings. i'm with Homburg, those super eager subbie guys begging to lick boots or be your houseboy read more "horny" than submissive personality who just can't help but to surrender to you.

I agree, more horny than anything else. Submissive or otherwise.

 

[JMohegan]

of course. i wasn't asking whether or not you feel people choose to be submissive...but whether or not you feel there must be conscious choice (as well as fulfillment of some kind) in the act of submitting itself.

Not necessarily.

I understand that some people with submissive personalities lack the ability to choose appropriate or worthy friends, colleagues, or lovers to whom they defer. Others with submissive personalities do possess that ability, and conscious choice enters the process in making that selection.

 

[ataxia.girl]

It used to really bother me that i am not the material for most Dominants. i often felt a very intense urge to change myself into what i think will be more attractive to the elusive Uber-Dom. This has only subsided since being very emotionally bound to Daddy. It was still there even in the first several months of our relationship.

 

[intothewoods]

Ha! This is funny, but also highlights a really good point.

Eagerness to please and ability to please are not always the same thing. Which is why I said that "when appropriately directed" I find the eagerness to please very arousing.

Yes.

Its not just femdom's. I'm submissive and yet would LOVE it if just once I was chatted up for reasons other than A and B. Unfortunately, so far, those seem to be my only good qualities.

That's hilarious.

Frankly, I've only been approached at parties and events for the same reason, unless the person knows me. No one has ever said, wow, you seem like you seem like just the anti-doormat I've been looking for and I would love to take you down! Of course, casual play parties are casual play parties. I haven't gone looking for a dominant and they haven't come looking for me.

 

[ownedsubgal]

It used to really bother me that i am not the material for most Dominants. i often felt a very intense urge to change myself into what i think will be more attractive to the elusive Uber-Dom. This has only subsided since being very emotionally bound to Daddy. It was still there even in the first several months of our relationship.

it still bothers me. a year with Daddy cured me of wishing that i could change tho. what bothers me is that the core defining characteristic that makes me me is almost universally categorized as bad, unappealing, unattractive...that only the scum and criminals of the world could possibly find someone like me desirable, that people like me give the "lifestyle" a bad name, etc. that hurts, really hurts, honestly. 9 years with one person who bucks the trend like nobody's business does not make that hurt go away.

 

[Homburg]

Its not just femdom's. I'm submissive and yet would LOVE it if just once I was chatted up for reasons other than A and B. Unfortunately, so far, those seem to be my only good qualities.

Hey now, I chatted you up with no expectations of your pussy being involved in any of the conversations.

--

It used to really bother me that i am not the material for most Dominants. i often felt a very intense urge to change myself into what i think will be more attractive to the elusive Uber-Dom. This has only subsided since being very emotionally bound to Daddy. It was still there even in the first several months of our relationship.

This idea bugs me, and I've seen it time and again. Not worded as succinctly as this, but still seen it plenty of times. So many pyl's bemoaning their supposed inadequacies and worrying that they are not somehow up to snuff for some theoretical dominant.

No one will be compatible material for everyone. It's just not going to happen. I can point to a whole list of submissive women on these boards that I really like, find attractive, enjoy talking with, and yet would not in any way attempt a relationship with. Why? Because I know that I am the not the right fit for them, and vice versa.

I'm cool with that. Not everyone is going to like me, and not everyone is going to like you. That is what makes the experience all that much more intense and meaningful when you do find that person that you fit with.

And when I say that the idea bugs me, I'm not chastising you or deriding you. I am grumpy because I hate seeing worthwhile people feel bad about themselves because they feel like they don't measure to some ideal.

--

Frankly, I've only been approached at parties and events for the same reason, unless the person knows me. No one has ever said, wow, you seem like you seem like just the anti-doormat I've been looking for and I would love to take you down! Of course, casual play parties are casual play parties. I haven't gone looking for a dominant and they haven't come looking for me.

*blink*

No, me neither. Never have gone to a play party *looking*. In each case where I've trussed up some random bottom, it has usually been because someone intro'ed that person to me and said they were cool, or it was someone I was already familiar with on my own outside the party.

So not "present w/ pussy," More "You're cool, want to play?"

--

it still bothers me. a year with Daddy cured me of wishing that i could change tho. what bothers me is that the core defining characteristic that makes me me is almost universally categorized as bad, unappealing, unattractive...that only the scum and criminals of the world could possibly find someone like me desirable, that people like me give the "lifestyle" a bad name, etc. that hurts, really hurts, honestly. 9 years with one person who bucks the trend like nobody's business does not make that hurt go away.

Not everyone feels that way, darlin.

 

[BiBunny]

That attitude, constantly, can make anyone feel bad, even if you're the kind of person who normally says, "Screw what other people think."

 

[intothewoods]

it still bothers me. a year with Daddy cured me of wishing that i could change tho. what bothers me is that the core defining characteristic that makes me me is almost universally categorized as bad, unappealing, unattractive...that only the scum and criminals of the world could possibly find someone like me desirable, that people like me give the "lifestyle" a bad name, etc. that hurts, really hurts, honestly. 9 years with one person who bucks the trend like nobody's business does not make that hurt go away.

It used to really bother me that i am not the material for most Dominants. i often felt a very intense urge to change myself into what i think will be more attractive to the elusive Uber-Dom. This has only subsided since being very emotionally bound to Daddy. It was still there even in the first several months of our relationship.

I really don't think of either of you as being unappealing to most Dominants, and I think that self-characterization is off base. The Dominants I know are not at all by far looking for the same thing. I know of one person who likes assertive submissives. He also likes topping proDommes. The rest are a mix. Some like the D/g thing, some like hardcore masochists, some are into the more sensual aspects of bdsm.

Hey now, I chatted you up with no expectations of your pussy being involved in any of the conversations.

In contrast, I only spoke to you because you're a Dominant and you have a dick. I hope you feel dirty.

This idea bugs me, and I've seen it time and again. Not worded as succinctly as this, but still seen it plenty of times. So many pyl's bemoaning their supposed inadequacies and worrying that they are not somehow up to snuff for some theoretical dominant.

No one will be compatible material for everyone. It's just not going to happen. I can point to a whole list of submissive women on these boards that I really like, find attractive, enjoy talking with, and yet would not in any way attempt a relationship with. Why? Because I know that I am the not the right fit for them, and vice versa.

I'm cool with that. Not everyone is going to like me, and not everyone is going to like you. That is what makes the experience all that much more intense and meaningful when you do find that person that you fit with.

And when I say that the idea bugs me, I'm not chastising you or deriding you. I am grumpy because I hate seeing worthwhile people feel bad about themselves because they feel like they don't measure to some ideal.

--



*blink*

No, me neither. Never have gone to a play party *looking*. In each case where I've trussed up some random bottom, it has usually been because someone intro'ed that person to me and said they were cool, or it was someone I was already familiar with on my own outside the party.

So not "present w/ pussy," More "You're cool, want to play?"

--



Not everyone feels that way, darlin.

Agree with all of this.

And yeah, I also play with people I know or meet through someone I know.

 

[Kikori]

Its not just femdom's. I'm submissive and yet would LOVE it if just once I was chatted up for reasons other than A and B. Unfortunately, so far, those seem to be my only good qualities.

This topic would like to have a word with you. ^_^