The end of Democracy?

[Chobham]

Actually, either of those is more than adequate by themselves as you can see from the above definitions. Until recently, no one had a problem referring to our system of government of as a democracy as it was understood to be shorthand for representative democracy. I don't believe anybody is under the illusion the US uses the Athenian Assembly model of democracy. Certainly not at the national or state level. And when referred to as a republic, it is understood to be representative republic with popularly elected representatives. The two words have been used interchangeably since before the Constitution was written.

But then the GOP decided it needed to diminish the importance of our democratic institutions in order to impose their vision of a more authoritarian state. Hence the attack on the word democracy. Hence this silly debate about how to describe the federal and state governments.

If we are going to be pedantic about it, republic simply means the head of state is not a monarch. But it in general usage, it is assumed to be referring a representative republic where power is held by the people and exercised through their representatives (usually popularly elected, but not always). Additionally, the powers of the representatives in the US are (nominally) restricted by the Constitution. So a more properly prescriptive description would be a constitutional representative democracy or, if you must, a constitutional democratic republic.

But really, you can just call it a democracy. Unless you have a non-democratic, authoritarian political agenda you are trying to push.

Exactly which party is imposing "authoritarian edicts" on the populace?

To be more precise we are a Federal Republic with, as originally conceived, the States retaining the greater power. Further it is the states that elect the president the fact that the states have designed their election processes on a democratic model.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Exactly which party is imposing "authoritarian edicts" on the populace?

To be more precise we are a Federal Republic with, as originally conceived, the States retaining the greater power. Further it is the states that elect the president the fact that the states have designed their election processes on a democratic model.

So you agree the US is a Democracy, can you please explain that to Derpy.

 

[bijedi]

Exactly which party is imposing "authoritarian edicts" on the populace?

To be more precise we are a Federal Republic with, as originally conceived, the States retaining the greater power. Further it is the states that elect the president the fact that the states have designed their election processes on a democratic model.

We can play these semantic games all day, but by the standard dictionary definition of the word, the US IS a democracy. Full stop. Yes it is a republic, and yes it has written constitution, and yes it has a federalist structure. But it is more defined by its democratic features than any other detail. China is a republic but not a democracy. The UK is a democracy but not a republic. Yet the US is far more similar to the UK than it is to China. It is only when compared to other democratic governments that other features (e.g. federalism or republicanism) became differentiators.

It does have some antidemocratic features such as the electoral college. Hopefully someday we can rid ourselves of that anachronistic flaw.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Exactly which party is imposing "authoritarian edicts" on the populace?

To be more precise we are a Federal Republic with, as originally conceived, the States retaining the greater power. Further it is the states that elect the president the fact that the states have designed their election processes on a democratic model.

While true some of that states remaining the greater power made sense 250 years ago when it could take weeks to get word from one location to another. We originally didn't have a full time military and many of the Founders believed a full time military is by its very nature tyrannical. Some time in the last hundred years we decided that having to basically build the military from scratch every time a conflict broke out was not a good plan.

I really hate that we have essentially such low self esteem that we basically make the argument you can't argue with dead people which makes them right and you wrong. Can you imagine if you wanting to say by a washing machine but grandpa whose been dead for twenty years though work builds character so we're not getting a washing machine. Of course we can learn from the past. That's not in question but you're opinion is suppose stop being important with your pulse.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Tell me EXACTLY where DeSantis and the Constitution diverge.

Free speech for starters.

 

[Chobham]

We can play these semantic games all day, but by the standard dictionary definition of the word, the US IS a democracy. Full stop. Yes it is a republic, and yes it has written constitution, and yes it has a federalist structure. But it is more defined by its democratic features than any other detail. China is a republic but not a democracy. The UK is a democracy but not a republic. Yet the US is far more similar to the UK than it is to China. It is only when compared to other democratic governments that other features (e.g. federalism or republicanism) became differentiators.

It does have some antidemocratic features such as the electoral college. Hopefully someday we can rid ourselves of that anachronistic flaw.

And then begin the terminal decline to become a full blown democracy like the ancient Greeks. Plato and Aristotle had a few words to say about that.

 

[Chobham]

Free speech for starters.

Precisely how?

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Precisely how?

Precisely in the way courts have said he did.

 

[Chobham]

Precisely in the way courts have said he did.

Sent back to the trial court as I recall. It's not over yet.

 

[Rotadom]

Year 2,400+ of democracy and no end in site . Why are right wing lunatics so bad at predicting stuff?

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Sent back to the trial court as I recall. It's not over yet.

LOL. Which of the several cases against DeSantis’s anti-free speech laws are you referring?

 

[JoePepsiCo]

Exactly which party is imposing "authoritarian edicts" on the populace?

To be more precise we are a Federal Republic with, as originally conceived, the States retaining the greater power. Further it is the states that elect the president the fact that the states have designed their election processes on a democratic model.

The Left has no idea as to how the government is structured and those that do openly opine for some sort of top-down collective that enforces conformity of thought while promoting diversity of façade and truly believe in mob rule right up to the point where their mob doesn't have the ruler in its hand. They create Hitlers, Stalins, Maos and Pol Pots while selling the fear that the majority will freely elect a Hitler (in their currant parlance, 'a Trump').

Our Federal Republic was created to protect us from the mob mentality and eventual rise of the strong man but we lost a lot of that protection when the rabble-roused mob wrested the Senate away from the States and added its feather to their aluminum-foil dunce cap. We no longer have Senator Byrd's saucer that cools the coffee and if they ever get their way again, the Left will seek to do much the same to the judicial branch of government, i.e., "Democratize it."

I've said it a hundred times and I'll say it again, "Democracy is a pernicious evil!" and it gets progressively more evil as it is scaled up, especially in a large polyglot nation such as ours, where the melting pot has been allowed to cool and congeal into disparate chunks of sour-tasting lumps of bitter taste in your mouth.

 

[adrina]

Irony. A Trumper complaining about mob rule and dictatorship.

 

[HisArpy]

We can play these semantic games all day, but by the standard dictionary definition of the word, the US IS a democracy. Full stop. Yes it is a republic, and yes it has written constitution, and yes it has a federalist structure. But it is more defined by its democratic features than any other detail. China is a republic but not a democracy. The UK is a democracy but not a republic. Yet the US is far more similar to the UK than it is to China. It is only when compared to other democratic governments that other features (e.g. federalism or republicanism) became differentiators.

It does have some antidemocratic features such as the electoral college. Hopefully someday we can rid ourselves of that anachronistic flaw.

It's not semantics, the US is a Republic. The Constitution specifically guarantees a republican form of government.

Or didn't they teach you that in the progressive "school" you went to?

 

[DeluxAuto]

You're an idiot.

Don't insult idiots

 

[DeluxAuto]

The Left

Who is "The Left" exactly, AJ?

They create Hitlers, Stalins, Maos and Pol Pots while selling the fear that the majority will freely elect a Hitler (in their currant parlance, 'a Trump').

No, YOU created trump who idolizes those you listed. What the fuck is wrong with you?

 

[John_von_Neumann]

It's not semantics, the US is a Republic. The Constitution specifically guarantees a republican form of government.

Or didn't they teach you that in the progressive "school" you went to?

Time to lay off the carbon water, dummy.

 

[bijedi]

It's not semantics, the US is a Republic. The Constitution specifically guarantees a republican form of government.

Or didn't they teach you that in the progressive "school" you went to?

Oh look, I am being educated by the guy who doesn't know the definition of republic and democracy.

Consider me schooled.

Of course they taught us that the US is a republic. They also taught that us it is a democracy, and that those two things are orthogonal.

As I just pointed out, being a republic doesn't mean a whole lot. China is a republic, the UK is not. I know which government I would prefer to live under.

 

[jaF0]

Who is "The Left" exactly, AJ?

Anybody that isn't Donny.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

For those still arguing over Democracy, Republic, Democratic Republic, etc… catch up please.

While you were dazzled and fascinated with the Republicans vs Democrats puppet show… America became a full fledged fascist state.

The only element of fascism that is missing is the pride in the nation/race. Maybe they think that’s old fashioned and can be done without… or maybe they plan to install it later.

Either way, the things you think are important arguments… are farts in a hurricane.

There is one fascist party in the United States and it’s not the Democrats. “Both sides” arguments are always intended to provide cover for the Republicans.

 

[ll74]

A constitutional republic is a form of democracy.

Both sides of the "argument" don't seem to like that it's not a full fledged version of either a republic or a democracy.

For those still arguing over Democracy, Republic, Democratic Republic, etc… catch up please.

While you were dazzled and fascinated with the Republicans vs Democrats puppet show… America became a full fledged fascist state.

The only element of fascism that is missing is the pride in the nation/race. Maybe they think that’s old fashioned and can be done without… or maybe they plan to install it later.

Either way, the things you think are important arguments… are farts in a hurricane.

Yah! Down wit da gubment! Anarchy for all!

 

[DeluxAuto]

Anybody that isn't Donny.

That's pretty much the gist and it makes it even more lame coming from our resident "libertarian."

 

[jaF0]

^^ They think 'The Left' includes Lizzie, Moscow Mitch and Cali Kevin and now maybe Mikey who are all just as extreme as the FreeDumb KKKlan.

.

 

[Lazaran]

There is one fascist party in the United States and it’s not the Democrats. “Both sides” arguments are always intended to provide cover for the Republicans.

They say you USUALLY have to repeat something three times before it sinks in…

"republicans" and far left anarchists are obviously exceptions to that rule.

*nods*

 

[Rightguide]

Just like Barack Obama and Arnold Schwarzenegger, Donald Trump is Constitutionally ineligible to hold the office of President.

According to who?