The Queernesss Thread

[KoPilot]

Do any of you guys know by any chance, resources about pregnancy as a GQ or trans* person? We've been talking kids for a while, and it'll take a while more, but in the mean time I'm trying to figure out my bigger fears: body dysphoria and gender role issues. My FtM coach told me there's no care in gender teams for this, here, just for people who might want transition, so i will have to find my own way.

I'm afraid that I've got nothing for you but a whole bunch of links I skimmed through and hope that they are at least useful:

http://ask.metafilter.com/186981/Transgender-people-and-pregnancy-babies-kids
http://transparents.livejournal.com/
http://www.xojane.com/family/genderqueer-mom
http://offbeatfamilies.com/2012/11/gendrequeer-and-pregnant
http://www.reproductivejusticeblog.org/2011/05/queer-parenting-being-genderqueer-and.html

:x

 

[Allyourbase]

I'm afraid that I've got nothing for you but a whole bunch of links I skimmed through and hope that they are at least useful:

http://ask.metafilter.com/186981/Transgender-people-and-pregnancy-babies-kids
http://transparents.livejournal.com/
http://www.xojane.com/family/genderqueer-mom
http://offbeatfamilies.com/2012/11/gendrequeer-and-pregnant
http://www.reproductivejusticeblog.org/2011/05/queer-parenting-being-genderqueer-and.html

:x

Oh god i,'ve asked you to google for me... :/ But i'm happy with the links anyways. Will check them out!

 

[IrisAlthea]

Do any of you guys know by any chance, resources about pregnancy as a GQ or trans* person? We've been talking kids for a while, and it'll take a while more, but in the mean time I'm trying to figure out my bigger fears: body dysphoria and gender role issues. My FtM coach told me there's no care in gender teams for this, here, just for people who might want transition, so i will have to find my own way.

I don't know how maternity care and pediatric healthcare works where you are, but do you think you could ask around to see if there is a clinic or individual midwife, pediatric nurse, doctor etc who have experience with this?

 

[Stella_Omega]

There won't be many childbirth professionals that have experience with this. Trust me on that.

But I do know that a few trans guys have born children-- after they'd started HRT. I met someone who was planning to get pregnant, a few years back, I'll see if I can get in touch with them. I imagine you'd have to stop T if you are on it, for starters. And if you really experience severe dysphoria, I question making the attempt. Pregnancy hormones are overwhelming.

 

[IrisAlthea]

There won't be many childbirth professionals that have experience with this. Trust me on that.

But I do know that a few trans guys have born children-- after they'd started HRT. I met someone who was planning to get pregnant, a few years back, I'll see if I can get in touch with them. I imagine you'd have to stop T if you are on it, for starters. And if you really experience severe dysphoria, I question making the attempt. Pregnancy hormones are overwhelming.

Yes, I get that.
I have a hard time explaining how I mean, because the structures around childbirth are so different in different countries.
We have a lot of free health care here, for parents to be and new parents. In the bigger cities there are so called rainbow clinics for GLBTQ parents and even if they are not used to your specific situation they are still used to adapting care and finding what works for each siuation rather than just running through some standard program.
I have no idea if something like that exists in other countries or if there are other resources to find heath care that is at least open, friendly and willing to learn with you?

And I totally agree about the pregnancy hormones. I think we have discussed the "occupied by alien beeing for years" experience before.

 

[Allyourbase]

There won't be many childbirth professionals that have experience with this. Trust me on that.

But I do know that a few trans guys have born children-- after they'd started HRT. I met someone who was planning to get pregnant, a few years back, I'll see if I can get in touch with them. I imagine you'd have to stop T if you are on it, for starters. And if you really experience severe dysphoria, I question making the attempt. Pregnancy hormones are overwhelming.

I'm not on T (now that i read it back i could better have said 'my coach who is FtM', we talk about everything including gender, and I'm a 'he' for him, but I'm not in transition). But I do experience some dysphoria. Right now it's not my body much, but my gender role/assignment quite a bit. But I'm pretty sure that when I start to balloon up, get all über curvy and soft and bubbly (oh god) and people stand up for you in public transport and everything everyone throws at you is pink with flowers, I'll start to hate my body very very soon. Well, that, and the fact that it's the whole alien-entity-inside-thing influencing your hormones that scares me.

On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong?! My coach knew a trans guy who actually liked being pregnant, because he found it very nice to have all these body parts that were normally useless to him, finally have a decent task that they were performing well. Or something like that. Interesting as well.

Anyhow, I'm getting interested in being a parent, not being a *mom*. Somehow I think this issue won't stop after childbirth though.

 

[Allyourbase]

I don't know how maternity care and pediatric healthcare works where you are, but do you think you could ask around to see if there is a clinic or individual midwife, pediatric nurse, doctor etc who have experience with this?

Here's an overview of how it works here:

I live in the Netherlands and gender care is pretty binary here. There are a couple of hospitals with gender teams, where everyone ends up who seriously considers reassignment. But those teams are cis, all of them (which I think is a major flaw, but probably the case in any country) and, even though the websites state that they deal with all types of gender dysphoria, they're relatively conservative in their approach to figure out whether you're a) transsexual or b) not > divert to local shrink. It's officially not possible to get a partial transition, though many people do, just by starting the 'entire' trajectory and then dropping out. I know quite a few people who did that.

Since recently, it's not mandatory anymore to be sterile to have your passport changed. But it has been like that for a very long time, hence the lack of post-transition FtM parents. With the new rules this will change pretty soon, we think.

Me, I am not trans enough for this stuff, and my coach, who has seen quite a bit of the system, has no gender therapists to recommend for my situation. He offered his care, as a coach, if I decide to go ahead, just to take the edge off things. That might be helpful. I've had surgery for a fallen bowel, which in my case means I have to get a cesarian.

Edited to add: If you get a baby here, there's someone (female) visiting you for a short time after birth to help out in the home, covered by insurance (like most everything else, socialists!!!), and there's local places for check ups on how your baby grows. I don't expect them to be more queer-friendly than the standard here. Which isn't low, don't get me wrong, but genderqueers are not on the radar. For the rest of the care I'm not sure what to highlight as in contrast to other countries. Home births are not common and in my case not possible.

My coach suggested to be totally upfront about our wishes and form one front with my partner if I need medical care, to avoid being treated as a feminine.

This is all I got. And I wondered if there's anything else out there.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Do any of you guys know by any chance, resources about pregnancy as a GQ or trans* person? We've been talking kids for a while, and it'll take a while more, but in the mean time I'm trying to figure out my bigger fears: body dysphoria and gender role issues. My FtM coach told me there's no care in gender teams for this, here, just for people who might want transition, so i will have to find my own way.

You could ask this lady (MtF trans med student) - I haven't seen her post anything specifically about pregnancy but she has an interest in trans* medical care stuff generally, so maybe she'd know something.

 

[IrisAlthea]

Here's an overview of how it works here:

I live in the Netherlands and gender care is pretty binary here. There are a couple of hospitals with gender teams, where everyone ends up who seriously considers reassignment. But those teams are cis, all of them (which I think is a major flaw, but probably the case in any country) and, even though the websites state that they deal with all types of gender dysphoria, they're relatively conservative in their approach to figure out whether you're a) transsexual or b) not > divert to local shrink. It's officially not possible to get a partial transition, though many people do, just by starting the 'entire' trajectory and then dropping out. I know quite a few people who did that.

Since recently, it's not mandatory anymore to be sterile to have your passport changed. But it has been like that for a very long time, hence the lack of post-transition FtM parents. With the new rules this will change pretty soon, we think.

Me, I am not trans enough for this stuff, and my coach, who has seen quite a bit of the system, has no gender therapists to recommend for my situation. He offered his care, as a coach, if I decide to go ahead, just to take the edge off things. That might be helpful. I've had surgery for a fallen bowel, which in my case means I have to get a cesarian.

Edited to add: If you get a baby here, there's someone (female) visiting you for a short time after birth to help out in the home, covered by insurance (like most everything else, socialists!!!), and there's local places for check ups on how your baby grows. I don't expect them to be more queer-friendly than the standard here. Which isn't low, don't get me wrong, but genderqueers are not on the radar. For the rest of the care I'm not sure what to highlight as in contrast to other countries. Home births are not common and in my case not possible.

My coach suggested to be totally upfront about our wishes and form one front with my partner if I need medical care, to avoid being treated as a feminine.

This is all I got. And I wondered if there's anything else out there.

Thanks, it's interesting to know how it works in different countries.

We just changed the law making it madatory to be sterile (and not married and a citizen ) last year, so yes things are probably going to change.
Perhaps it would be possible to create a support group by looking for others in the same situation on boards about parenting and pregnancy and through other contacts you or your coach may have?
It's not the same as professional resources but it helps a lot to have others to discuss things with, who are having the same issues - and like you said, perhaps even more after childbirth.

 

[Allyourbase]

We just changed the law making it madatory to be sterile (and not married and a citizen ) last year, so yes things are probably going to change.

Not married? Is gay marriage not legal where you live? (Where do you live? )

 

[Netzach]

The T has no business, really in GLBT. Most gender play amongst gay men is camp and disrespectful towards women in my view. If you identify as gender queer and straight there is ZERO respect from that community.

Considering that gender playing disrespectful T and DQ types were lobbbing stones at stonewall, I politely beg to differ.

I think that the T belongs there and should steadfastly INSIST that they have a right to that patch of ground, equal funding, equal attention, and equal respect with cis gay men, who are often the ones who need an education.

If they don't get it from the rest of us, they're not going to get it. Absolutely, have Trans-exclusive (as in exclusive TO not OF) and trans-driven lobbying and justice worktime, but don't cut off the relatives just because they're not perfect either, you still need them.

If Lesbians can handle it as long as they have, so can you.

 

[Netzach]

Subtle shit, but it really bummed me out when I went into the women's lockers to lock our shit up and it was like a Cadillac locker room experience compared to the shitty "family lockers" that we're actually comfortable using (her in reality, me in solidarity.) I mean I'm glad they have SOME thing, but ideally there should be a small side gender non specified one for whatever dysphoric person doesn't want to deal with naked hangout time just for working out. I know if I have to get bagged at some point I am NOT interested in changing in front of randoms, it's just good policy in general for everyone.

They "family" ones are under renovation, leaving M to change in a bathroom stall for now.

First world problems I know, but meh. At least this place is seriously trying and a comfortable institution to even have the conversation with!

 

[IrisAlthea]

Not married? Is gay marriage not legal where you live? (Where do you live? )

Yes, it is since 2009 (Sweden). Hence the because it doesn't really compute to keep requiring people to not be married after that.

 

[KoPilot]

Came out to my mom in an email just now. The vast majority of it was mostly about how I don't appreciate people trying to tell me how I should be having my hysterectomy, and how, for the LAST GODDAMN TIME, we do NOT WANT TO START A FAMILY SO YOU CAN STOP FUCKING ASKING.

Almost hung up on her this morning because I was so sick of the bullshit I've been getting from all sides for months. Literally could not take it anymore. Was close to a breakdown.

 

[Allyourbase]

Came out to my mom in an email just now. The vast majority of it was mostly about how I don't appreciate people trying to tell me how I should be having my hysterectomy, and how, for the LAST GODDAMN TIME, we do NOT WANT TO START A FAMILY SO YOU CAN STOP FUCKING ASKING.

Almost hung up on her this morning because I was so sick of the bullshit I've been getting from all sides for months. Literally could not take it anymore. Was close to a breakdown.

What's the coming out part, what didn't they know yet? The not starting a family part? :/ That seldom falls well with parents, no idea why, it's not their life?!

*hugs* for issues

 

[Allyourbase]

Yes, it is since 2009 (Sweden). Hence the because it doesn't really compute to keep requiring people to not be married after that.

That is so weird?!

 

[KoPilot]

What's the coming out part, what didn't they know yet? The not starting a family part? :/ That seldom falls well with parents, no idea why, it's not their life?!

*hugs* for issues

I got the go-ahead for a hysterectomy earlier this summer because I have a nasty history of endometriosis and I'm sick of taking pills for it and being scared that it'll come back. BUT I also want it because I don't want to be able to make babies. My doctors didn't skip a beat with me on this.

I've been saying for years that S and I don't want kids, but nobody really "believes" us. I've had folks relay through my parents all kinds of absolutely ridiculous ideas, most of which are actually completely ignorant of the process to begin with. I've had people say that they don't think I know what I'm doing in one breath, and then in the next "warn" me that I'll need hormone therapy. Or that I should freeze my eggs. Nobody even knows what a fucking hysterectomy even is, but that's not going to stop them from trying to tell me their 2 cents. It's horseshit.

My mom has repeatedly told me that I owe her nothing in terms of grandkids and that that's something she's going to have to work on for herself, but she has no problem dealing me the death of a thousand cuts by asking or relaying all of these "what if ___?" questions. I tried telling her why those kinds of discussions are so hurtful to me and why I'm so fed up with them, but she saw my reaction as being completely blown out of proportion.

So I told her. Basically said look, this is another reason I want this done, and it's another reason I'm so fed up with people second-guessing my decision to do this. But even so, that's all besides the point, really, because it's my body, and what I do with it isn't up for debate.

It's been 2 hours and I still haven't heard from her. So we'll see what happens I guess. x\

 

[briTO]

In case you have not listened to this, you may find it interesting...

http://www.thirdcoastfestival.org/library/982-the-small-person-acquisition-project

 

[Allyourbase]

In case you have not listened to this, you may find it interesting...

http://www.thirdcoastfestival.org/library/982-the-small-person-acquisition-project

 

[BiBunny]

Sorry, y'all, I haven't been ignoring these posts. My sleep schedule's just all wonky (again), and I haven't been able to think straight enough for the past few days to answer.

At least in my head, The fundamental difference between a "romantic relationship" and a "intimate friendship" is very much one of those vague feelings that is difficult to describe or put your finger on. Hell, I can make the distinction, right now, clearly in my head, but I have utterly no way to articulate it. It's just a feeling, and it's probably different between individuals too. Vague feelings like this are always difficult to acknowledge and describe. If one is self-reflective and intuitive enough, I think most people would be able to acknowledge the distinction you're talking about.

I don't know how you feel about it, but I also don't believe these are exclusive feelings or relationships. Because of that strong foundation of an "intimate friendship", I think this is one of the reasons why the advice "be friends with your spouse" exists in the first place.

I can't really explain the difference, either, at least not well enough that it makes sense. But I can distinguish it kinda...viscerally(?)...I guess?

Blech, my brain is a mess.

That's how I feel too. I have no idea what romance even is, except that I probably tried doing it at some point and it felt gross and stupid..

OMG, this.

I think for me, I've managed to outline a really rough "rubric" for wha distinguishes a deep/intimate friendship from a romantic partnership. Basically I ask myself "Physical intimacy aside, is there anything I enjoy doing with this person that is exclusive to my relationship with them? Or, physical intimacy aside, is there anything I enjoy doing with this person that would feel weird or wrong to do with "just" a friend, or even relative?"

And that's about the best explanation I've ever seen of it.


Thanks, everyone. Y'all for real did make me feel better.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Yes, it is since 2009 (Sweden). Hence the because it doesn't really compute to keep requiring people to not be married after that.

Is it a "don't want to have straight people end up in a same-sex marriage when their partner transitions" thing? I think that's the rationale behind the UK's "spousal veto" rule on transition.

 

[IrisAlthea]

Is it a "don't want to have straight people end up in a same-sex marriage when their partner transitions" thing? I think that's the rationale behind the UK's "spousal veto" rule on transition.

Yes, I think that is part of it.
Also, the government for the last eight years has been a coalition with the "very religious party".

Anyway, they did change it at last, but it did take a ruling by the supreme court, to change the part about the need to be sterile.

 

[Allyourbase]

Is it a "don't want to have straight people end up in a same-sex marriage when their partner transitions" thing? I think that's the rationale behind the UK's "spousal veto" rule on transition.

Spousal veto! Wtf. What do we have here? *google*

I keep finding out new and ridiculous restrictions on transition. For example when i bought a house, the medical check forms for life insurance that was part of the mortgage suggested a huge bias against trans people, so broadly formulated that i couldve checked that box. But if i had, my house mightve become out of reach. I was so surprised!! So i asked around and, yep, thats how it works, trans people have issues buying houses, trans* support organisations know and try to lobby against it to no avail.

Thats not something people tell you when you consider getting help, eh: buy a house first.

 

[briTO]

Anytime. I am an ex of one of the dads.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

So. Sexual revelations are not usually trustworthy. but a dear dear friend of mine (I consider her my sister) just linked me to an actual definition of "demisexual".
http://www.asexuality.org/wiki/index.php?title=Demisexual

This just feels so spot-on. It may be my absinthe-bourbon concoctions talking (Sazeracs are the shit, btw), but at least the big part of this just reads so right.

But so do some horoscopes. In the end, I feel like most labels are a bit limiting (my friend even said she'd only "label" me as demisexual on 'pain of death'), but this just feels right when I think about it.

Because, end of the day, is regardless to my aversion to skinfolds, I think I would really enjoy sex with a woman I loved. Just like I really enjoy sex with my male partner, in spite of his stinky man parts. (Record: not that stinky most days, but boys ewwww )

Anyway. That's tonight's drunken relevation. hope everyone has a good day