The Second Amendment, Gun Control, and School Shootings.

[Rightguide]

My main problem is that I live in a country full of chickenshit cunts like yourself.

No, your problem is being a chickenshit cunt in a nation of free men.

 

[bestone4ever]

No, your problem is being a chickenshit cunt in a nation of free men.

I live without fear and leave my house every morning without a gun to weigh me down like the albatross around your puny neck.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Scotus already ruled in Heller and in Miller v United States 1939. In Miller the court outlawed sawed off shotguns because they have no military utility. The Court:

"Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment, or that its use could contribute to the common defense."

Of course this means it would be hard to prove the AR-15 couldn't contribute to the national defense, or that it had no military utility.

And yet MD and MA laws were upheld and the Supreme Court refused to hear the MD challenge.

 

[Rightguide]

And yet MD and MA laws were upheld and the Supreme Court refused to hear the MD challenge.

They refused to hear the Peruta case from California as well because Gorsuch wasn't confirmed. Right now the Court is taking fewer cases because of Kennedy's impending retirement.

 

[Rightguide]

I live without fear and leave my house every morning without a gun

So do I, but that has nothing to do with the argument.

 

[bestone4ever]

So do I

That must be terrifying for you.

 

[Rightguide]

That must be terrifying for you.

Hardly, unlike you, I'm not easily terrified. Nor am I cowed by the uneducated.

 

[BotanyBoy]

My main problem is that I live in a country full of chickenshit cunts like yourself.

You hate civil rights....liberty.... and very clearly the people of this country.

Wouldn't shock me to find out you also DESPISE the freedom to pursue happiness, especially if that happiness includes having shit loads of money.

Why do you stay here in the horrible horrible US of A????

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Sadly, guns make things worse, but there are worse things than guns.-

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/thresholds-of-violence
Thresholds of Violence
How School Shootings Catch On by Malcom Gladwell



From 2015
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/yes-mass-killings-inspire-copycats-study-finds-n386141

"Police have said so for years and now scientists have measured the effect: Mass shootings and school attacks do inspire copycats.
As many as 20 to 30 percent of attacks are set off by other attacks, according to researchers at Arizona State University and Northeastern Illinois University. The effect lasts about 13 days, they write in the report published Thursday in the Public Library of Science journal "

The Gladwell article is particularly outstanding.

 

[WoundedKnee]

*chuckle*

The Clown College is busy running around screaming about people who aren't adding anything to the conversation while steadfastly refusing to add anything to the conversation. You just cannot make this stuff up.

Any conversation that makes them uncomfortable or is not on their terms leads to personal attacks and poo-flinging.

 

[coachdb18]

Thankfully, Trump has already provided us his list of conservative prospective associate justices to SCOTUS, and over the next seven years has every likelihood of replacing at least 3 liberals aging out on the bench. That should secure my governments promise to me not to infringe my right to self defense as embodied in our Second Amendment for the duration of my lifetime, and beyond. There are just some concepts where statistics are irrelevant. Individual freedom vs that of the collective cannot be challenged. God given rights are like the air we breathe, and trying to repeal it is like trying to repeal the law of gravity, repeal all day long but the right was never at the discretion of the government to bestow or withdraw.

 

[WoundedKnee]

Thankfully, Trump has already provided us his list of conservative prospective associate justices to SCOTUS, and over the next seven years has every likelihood of replacing at least 3 liberals aging out on the bench. That should secure my governments promise to me not to infringe my right to self defense as embodied in our Second Amendment. There are just some concepts where statistics are irrelevant. Individual freedom vs that of the collective cannot be challenged. God given rights are like the air we breathe, and trying to repeal it is like trying to repeal the law of gravity, repeal all day long but the right was never at the discretion of the government to bestow or withdraw.

You just handed crazy a reason to go ballistic. Well played.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

*guffaw*

And the harlequins stumbling out of the diminutive Volkswagen never fail to delight, which is why they continue...

 

[KimGordon67]

No, I recognize the game you play and I'm not BotanyBoi and I'm not going to go round and round with you for days on end.

Your game is this: My statistics are the only relevant ones (yours are not relevant) and if you do not argue based on my statistics then you are not educated enough on the topic to have a relevant position. In short, you are guilty of that which you accuse everyone else of, but being the accuser does, in no, way, shape or form make you the paragon of truth on the issue, just an over-opinionated poster with a closed mind.

Since I have demonstrated this, then I have also demonstrated the futility of having a discussion with you because you are unyielding in your belief system and unwilling to entertain anything out of it or even pause to think about the easy-to-point-out fallacies of rhetoric that you are engaging in.

So, have a nice day and wait, patiently I hope, for BB to show up so that you can talk past each other for days upon end.

For my part, I am done with you.

No, I'm quite happy to engage with anyone's stats ... where's your evidence that I don't? In fact, I've done precisely that in another current gun control thread, and I've done precisely that in relation to stats Coach has posted in the past.
I've also gone looking for stats to support arguments I've made and been unable to find them ... and have openly admitted that. I didn't just 'forget' the point, or twist existent data - this was in relation to the idea that gun ownership lowered crime rates, which I disputed. In fact, the data I found didn't support either argument - it was entirely inconclusive, and I said that.

You haven't 'demonstrated' anything ... all you've done is refuse to respond to my points because of some fantasy you have about how I debate based on ... fuck know what it's based on, really. You want to wax lyrical about the 'wisdom of elders' - trying walking the talk, instead of just utilising the rhetoric.

 

[KimGordon67]

There are statistics, there are statistics, and then there are damn lies.

You (the plural You) can bandy about all the 'statistics' you want, so can the 2nd Amendment supporters. We'll call it the battle of the floating point flinger's. It changes nothing. Go back and read paragraph #2 in the OP slowly and carefully. Contained therein is the real problem you're going to face if you try to do anything re. the Second Amendment.

So says every person who can't locate actual evidence to support their arguments.

 

[WoundedKnee]

Your stats.
Are they gun deaths per capita?

 

[IrezumiKiss]

No, I'm quite happy to engage with anyone's stats ... where's your evidence that I don't? In fact, I've done precisely that in another current gun control thread, and I've done precisely that in relation to stats Coach has posted in the past.
I've also gone looking for stats to support arguments I've made and been unable to find them ... and have openly admitted that. I didn't just 'forget' the point, or twist existent data - this was in relation to the idea that gun ownership lowered crime rates, which I disputed. In fact, the data I found didn't support either argument - it was entirely inconclusive, and I said that.

You haven't 'demonstrated' anything ... all you've done is refuse to respond to my points because of some fantasy you have about how I debate based on ... fuck know what it's based on, really. You want to wax lyrical about the 'wisdom of elders' - trying walking the talk, instead of just utilising the rhetoric.

You just handed Not-AJ a reason to go stratospheric. Well played.

 

[KimGordon67]

Thankfully, Trump has already provided us his list of conservative prospective associate justices to SCOTUS, and over the next seven years has every likelihood of replacing at least 3 liberals aging out on the bench. That should secure my governments promise to me not to infringe my right to self defense as embodied in our Second Amendment for the duration of my lifetime, and beyond. There are just some concepts where statistics are irrelevant. Individual freedom vs that of the collective cannot be challenged. God given rights are like the air we breathe, and trying to repeal it is like trying to repeal the law of gravity, repeal all day long but the right was never at the discretion of the government to bestow or withdraw.

*eyeroll* Breathing is not a 'human right' ... it's a natural bodily function.

Your 'rights' only exist insofar as they don't impinge on the rights of others. If your 'right' to carry a gun impinges on my right to self-defence (i.e. living in culture in which my risk of being killed is minimised as much as possible), then it's not defensible. Something which risks the lives of others isn't a 'right', natural, god-given, or otherwise.

 

[KimGordon67]

Your stats.
Are they gun deaths per capita?

Whatever stats I use generally are, yes. Using raw numbers is just stupid.

 

[KimGordon67]

You just handed Not-AJ a reason to go stratospheric. Well played.

Shush ... he's our 'elder'. We're meant to be respectful. Or something.

 

[WoundedKnee]

*eyeroll* Breathing is not a 'human right' ... it's a natural bodily function.

Your 'rights' only exist insofar as they don't impinge on the rights of others. If your 'right' to carry a gun impinges on my right to self-defence (i.e. living in culture in which my risk of being killed is minimised as much as possible), then it's not defensible. Something which risks the lives of others isn't a 'right', natural, god-given, or otherwise.

How does carrying a gun infringe upon your right to self-defense?
Is this an attempt to criminalize the behavior of a gun-owner merely for being a gun owner?

Who is more likely to infringe upon your person and possession? A criminal with an illegal weapon, or a citizen with a legal weapon?

 

[WoundedKnee]

Whatever stats I use generally are, yes. Using raw numbers is just stupid.

Very good.
Do they include all gun deaths?

 

[KimGordon67]

How does carrying a gun infringe upon your right to self-defense?
Is this an attempt to criminalize the behavior of a gun-owner merely for being a gun owner?

Who is more likely to infringe upon your person and possession? A criminal with an illegal weapon, or a citizen with a legal weapon?

OMG ... I'll talk slowly so hopefully you get the point.

A culture with high levels of gun ownership is demonstrably less safe to me personally than a culture with low levels of gun ownership. So lots of people carrying guns, who are protected by the law (or god, or whatever silly concept you want to mobilise) infringe on my right to self defense on the basis that I'm less safe in such a context. 'Self defense' isn't limited to punching someone who threatens you ... it also include mitigating any threats in the first instance.

Who is more likely to infringe on my person and possession ... a criminal with a gun or a criminal without a gun. I can tell you quite categorically, based on personal experience, that I'd much rather encounter a criminal without a gun than one who has a gun.

 

[KimGordon67]

Very good.
Do they include all gun deaths?

I do my best to find stats that only include intentional homicides. For the arguments I make, suicides are not of relevance. (That's not to say I don't think suicide is an issue, but it's quite a different beast, and shouldn't be argued at the same time as homicide.)

 

[WoundedKnee]

You need to look into the real stats on places with legal gun ownership and gun crime and places with strict gun-control and gun crime.

You see, it doesn't matter how many people own guns in a nation that determines your ability to defend yourself, it's how many people in your particular safe enclave who are emboldened by the fact that they know you have given up your right to self-defense by law.

This is why, one of the reasons, as to why gun violence is rare here where I live surrounded by nothing but deplorable illiterate rednecks many of whom own many guns.