Thinking internationally

[jon.hayworth]

I think Gauchecritic caused a little confusion because he missed out a crucial middle word "Recieved Pronounciation English" also called "Standard English".

Hope those pearls help clear up any confusion.

jon

 

[gauchecritic]

I bow to John Hayworth esq. but would also like to point out that you knew exactly what I was talking about. Ipso Fatso I was right all along, just using a shortened, often used form.

Gauche

 

[gauchecritic]

P.S Shouldn't you be in bed at this time?

 

[Lovepotion69]

P.S Shouldn't you be in bed at this time?

Bed? I am in bed...

 

[Whispersecret]

I think concessions to an international audience should be minor or nonexistant. An author's voice is a product of his or her background.

For me any attempt to write like an or an 'Englishman', or God forbid (in my case, because it wouldn't be possible at all) a Swede, would ring false except for the most gifted of writers. Like William F. Buckley trying to speak like a rapper.

What he said.

 

[The_old_man]

In responce to KMs referance to an English editer not believing her discription of a 'Seni'.

Several years ago I spent a weekend in Kingman AZ. The motel was ajacent to a major truck terminal.

Sunday morning I noticed a man standing in the driveway with a vidio camera. When I went to ask what he was doing, he explained that he and his wife were on an extended vacation (sabatical) and had begun to 'moter' across the States three weeks previously. They had originaly expected to take a week for the complete trip. He was tapeing the trucks to prove to his friends at home(Brussels) that the cargo carriers here were as large as they were. He was a school teacher and admited that even educated people in Europe have no idea of the size of the U.S.A.

 

[TheEarl]

Currently writing a non-erotic story and was having it edited IRL by a friend (yes, I do have some). She came upon a piece of dialogue where a character said: "I can't believe you just did that." She said that I should say these things aloud, make sure that they're natural. Wouldn't I say "I can't believe you've just done that." if it was me?

Errm, actually no. That's just the way I speak and as the way I've always spoken, it's really the only way I know how to. My nickname comes from the fact that I speak in a very posh English accent and, although I tone down the accent at times, the choice of words always remains the same.


The (very long and muddling point I'm trying to make) is that I do attempt to make my stories accessible to other nationalities (including the dropping of 'knickers', but not stretching to the use of 'ass'), but I find it very difficult to internationalise my dialogue. I read it aloud to make sure it sounds right. It may sound right to me, but often my choice of words makes my characters sound like newsreaders (I do actually speak the Standard English that we were talking about).

So I tried. But I failed.

Another cultural reference that will bemuse everyone outside of England and probably most people inside it too.

The Earl

 

[TheEarl]

including the dropping of 'knickers', but not stretching to the use of 'ass'

How did I not notice the Bond-esque double-entendres here when I was typing?

The Earl

 

[Un-registered]

Re: Re: Thinking internationally

I think KM that your English friend must go around with his eyes shut, or disdain trucks -

Is it really true that the Cornish for lorry is truck? And if so, what do you call those things that are towed (full of china clay in your part of the world) behind railway engines?

 

[karmadog]

a piece of dialogue where a character said: "I can't believe you just did that." She said that I should say these things aloud, make sure that they're natural. Wouldn't I say "I can't believe you've just done that." if it was me?

The first one sounds pretty damn American, and I grew up in the Midwest, and live in the South. Can't tell you if it sounds Brit.

 

[Octavian]

stories in the vernacular

I was going to set my next story in the USA and use the vernacular for any dialogue.

However it is very hard to create an interesting story if the only thing the characters ever say to each other is 'well dang my britches.'

Octavian

 

[MathGirl]

American English

As Rosie once remarked, "Shoot, em ole fahts gimme a twenny up front and bout all I does is hold they limp dick til they starts asnorin. Inna moanin I tellsem what dandy boners theys had the naight befo an whut studs they is, an sometime they slips me twenny mo. Sho a lot easier'n nokkin onna doors at the Mo-tel 6 to see iffun ennabody wanna buy hiseff a blowjawb."

"Em ol muffugas'll surprise ya, though. Onest this ol man ha me face down on the baid wit ma pannies down afore Ah knowed whattus hapnin'. Gimme a twenny later en compulmenned me on havin sech a taight pussy fer a nee-gro gal. Sheeiiiit, thet ole bassar hed it up the wrong hole, an' I'us jist bin aclenchin' fer all I'us wuth."

Now, that's American English

 

[Guest]

uncited source

For those that don't know, MG's quote is from her story Freida the Cat.

 

[Whispersecret]

That's not American English. That's hillbilly dialect.

 

[MathGirl]

That's not American English. That's hillbilly dialect.

What could be more American than that?

 

[jon.hayworth]

Un-registered,

As I drive along the A30, just before Bodmin Moor near Launceston I used to pass a "Truck Stop", most Lorry drivers under 40 refer to themselves as Truckers.

As for the railways, using the same name for 2 different things has never been a problem for the English. In the Yellow Pages under Commercial Vehicles I find, "The Van & Truck Centre", "Isuzi the world's No.1 truck", "Iveco Ford Truck at Hendy Truck Centre", not a single entry refers to lorries. The word died out about 20 years ago - soon after "Smoky and the Bandit" and "Convoy" - and the introduction of C.B. Radio.

You may wish to mourn the Americanization of the English language in the UK - I also regret its passing but it is a fact of life. Being a realist I recognize that I cannot stem the tide of American Cultural Imperialism, and have no intention of wasting my energy making a King Canute like stand against the irresistable tide.

jon

 

[TheEarl]

Karmadog: Grammatically speaking the first is the correct English. However most people in my area (SE England) would say the second.

The Earl

 

[Guest]

actually

That's not American English. That's hillbilly dialect.

Actually, it is more of a rural south, plains dialect. The 'hillbilly' dialect is sharper.

But I agree, it certainly isn't American English.

 

[TheEarl]

Isn't American English a song by Idelwild?

I'll just get my coat.

The Earl

 

[gauchecritic]

Re: stories in the vernacular

I was going to set my next story in the USA and use the vernacular for any dialogue.

However it is very hard to create an interesting story if the only thing the characters ever say to each other is 'well dang my britches.'

Octavian

That would depend on what having your britches danged entails.

Gauche

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Re: Re: Re: Re: $#%&^^%*& Swedes

NO! Oh, my God, now you've done it! We'll never hear the end of this now. Sob

...says the woman who moaned in exstacy when I talked Swedish to her a few weeks ago.

The ungrateful little brat!

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Isn't American English a song by Idelwild

According to Prof. Henry Higgins, there is no English spoken in America.

"...the Scots and the Irish leave you close to tears. There even are places where English completely disappears-in America they haven't spoken it for years."

Bye y'all,

Rumple Foreskin

 

[NoJo]

BBC English, Received English (more often Received Pronunciation, or RP), has quite rightly been seen as paternalistic by regional speakers. A strong movement has existed for other accents to be represented, but this is still rare in "important" roles like news anchors.

Interestingly, a Scottish accent (provided it's not too broad) is often judged to be the most trustworthy, especially when it comes to money matters: Probably something to do with the Scottish reputation for thrift.

KM not realizing that lorries and lorry drivers are different in England than the US is a sign of what I've noticed a lot over there: English people understand American culture a lot better than vice versa. This is only to be expected, because, frankly, the US is obviously a far more powerful cultural force than Britain nowadays. It's like the way both British and Americans are terrible at speaking a second language. After all, the need is not so strong, seeing as the most important language is already covered (I'm not justifying this parochialism).

Having lived and worked in the US, I've picked up a hint of US twang that makes it pretty easy for Americans to understand me, even in the small towns. I was once asked by a fifteen-year-old, after I had told him I was British: "If you're British, how come your English is so good?" meaning how come I was so easy to understand. His friend had to explain to him that English came from England.

 

[The_Fool]

Re: actually

Actually, it is more of a rural south, plains dialect. The 'hillbilly' dialect is sharper.

But I agree, it certainly isn't American English.

I was thinking Eubonics....

 

[MathGirl]

Education

I've been reading a lot of Terry Pratchett lately, and he steadfastly refuses to bend his language to an international readership. I love the way he writes.

I learn things like:

"Sweet Fanny Adams"
"done a treat"
"a dab hand"
etc.