Threesome

[wicked woman]

With things getting better and communication on a all time high shouldn't i do all I can to foster this high in our relationship? Isn't love about doing all you can to make the othe person happy and fulfilled and content??

Loving someone else isn't at the expense of being you...knowing who you are, what YOUR needs are, or letting someone else walk all over you. Ideally it includes not wasting your love on the wrong person....as Eilan said..because it's equal..a two way street..

But if you want...be a martyr...give him everything he wants, regardless of what you want. Karen there's a reason we're all advising you against this...and you seem to be missing it.

*can't help being reminded how easy it is to be the outsider and see how it is but how difficult it is sometimes to see the obvious when you're involved...but this is verging on painful to watch*

 

[M's girl]

With things getting better and communication on a all time high shouldn't i do all I can to foster this high in our relationship? Isn't love about doing all you can to make the othe person happy and fulfilled and content??

Yes, you sure do! And so does he! And while I hear you saying in what ways you think YOU should work on that, the only thing I see coming from him is a few appologies and him now, after all those years, sharing with you what gets him off. And what gets him off??? Introducing someone else in your sexlife. He should be doing everything he can to get yours (you and him) back on track (first) and believe you me; that does not happen overnight or even in a few weeks or months when so much trust was destroyed.

 

[M's girl]

Loving someone else isn't at the expense of being you...knowing who you are, what YOUR needs are, or letting someone else walk all over you. Ideally it includes not wasting your love on the wrong person....as Eilan said..because it's equal..a two way street..

But if you want...be a martyr...give him everything he wants, regardless of what you want. Karen there's a reason we're all advising you against this...and you seem to be missing it.

*can't help being reminded how easy it is to be the outsider and see how it is but how difficult it is sometimes to see the obvious when you're involved...but this is verging on painful to watch*

Very well said.

 

[Exciteher]

karndav, I have not been able to post as often as I would like lately, but I have been following this thread very closely. I am non-monogamous and my ideas about that, and swinging and polyamory are no secret. I see the "usual suspects" have already contributed their excellent advise, mirrors to my own. Here are some additions I have about this.

..... i worry we may be moving to fast with this but i truly love him and he seems to want this and right now I am willing to do everything he wants to keep him fulfilled sexually......!

Karen, listen to your inner voice here, there is a reason you think you are moving too fast with this, your inner voice is correct here. Trust your gut. I think that you wanting to please your husband is a good thing, he is very lucky! That you are willing to be open to exploring this with him, even if it turns out it would not be a fit with you says much about you and your divotionto him. So... I am wondering what he is doing now to please you... and his attitude about returning to you what you give to him!

Lets just set this threesome idea aside for the moment...

Can you tell us what are the 4 most important things YOU want right now? More importantly, can you tell HIM??...and does HE hear you?

With things getting better and communication on a all time high shouldn't i do all I can to foster this high in our relationship?....

From this post, and the others people have referred to, sounds like you two are at a pivotal point in your relationship. You say things are better and communication is at a high. This must mean that what you have done already (which I would assume did not include a threesome!!!) is starting to work! For now keep doing what you are already doing and expand that !! Do what has already worked. With one caviat... that what you are doing has balance and equality. Thinking tuning the balance thing is your next step.

You say you are doing all that you can to foster this high in your relationship, and I hear you. My concern is that, as others here seem to be feeling, things are perhaps too one-sided. Perhaps your hubby would like to post here? I cannot help think that a lot of these types of situations could be avoided if guys were more encouraged to be more authentically expressive about sex, especially their SO's.

Your husband needs to be working just as hard at this as you, wanting to please you just as much as you want to please him. You should not have to be feeling like it is all on you, "working your ass off". You both need to be fostering this high in your relationship, as a team, as a couple... but sex with others outside your relationship cannot help you to do that. It just cannot. Sex with others can come into the picture when the "high in your relationship" you feel right now, or something even higher... is the norm. Putting the cart before the horse would be sure disaster. (Is there an echo in here?..lol!)

Isn't love about doing all you can to make the othe person happy and fulfilled and content??

In a word, no.

You simply do not have the power to make another person anything. Happy, sad, content or whatever. That comes from within THEM! You can help them find that within themselves.. but they will have to do most of the work. You do have the power to make YOURSELF happy...etc. What you can do is share. AND you can both SHARE the trust, happiness and love you each have!

Imagine a bridge. There are two strong pillars at each end of the bridge, they support the roadway that spans the gulf between the pillars. A relationship is like the roadway that the pillars support. It is only as sound as the pillars (you and your husband) at each end. To make the relationship sound, you and he must make YOUR respective pillars, your respective sides of the bridge, as strong as possible. AND you BOTH must WANT to span the gulf between you.
You are JUST beginning to do that now!

There are good forums specific to swinging and polyamory... I am sure you will find that if you check into those, you will find they echo all the very good advise that everyone here has shared with you. And... they will answer a lot of your questions about the whole world of sharing sex with others. It is not as simple as some think. Also, it takes a lot of time and energy...time and energy that for you two seems to me better lavished between yourselves for now!

 

[karndav]

Loving someone else isn't at the expense of being you...knowing who you are, what YOUR needs are, or letting someone else walk all over you. Ideally it includes not wasting your love on the wrong person....as Eilan said..because it's equal..a two way street..

But if you want...be a martyr...give him everything he wants, regardless of what you want. Karen there's a reason we're all advising you against this...and you seem to be missing it.

*can't help being reminded how easy it is to be the outsider and see how it is but how difficult it is sometimes to see the obvious when you're involved...but this is verging on painful to watch*

I'm not trying to be a martyr. (actually what came to mind reading this was a stepford wife...is that what I am beccoming???)

I just want to make sure that we never get to a point in our relationship where he turns to others be it on the internet or on the phone. I talked to my priest about this when it first happened and he told me I had to forgive him (but that didn't mean forget it) and move past it and to (I'm trying to remember his exact words here) put the effort inot my marriage that I put into the other things in my life.

He said I gave in all the other areas of my life, my children, my church, my volunteer work, my friends to make sure I gave that same effort to my husband too.

 

[M's girl]

Exciteher,

It's good to hear from someone who does believe in threesomes and/or sharing sex with other people (besides your SO) that you also don't think it's a good idea at this point in their relationship. I could never engage in a threesome (or moresome) or swinging or whatever but I certainly don't judge it. Maybe I even secretly wish I would be so open minded or whatever it takes to be able to do it but I am so 100% (no, make that 200%) certain I would not be able to handle it (and enjoy it) because of jealousy issues to start with.... And it's not that our relationship is not solid or anything... But if I would be at the point where K&D are now. It's looking for trouble for certain. OK, Karen... I have made my point more than once... we all did. I'll but out now. Lots of wisdom to you...

 

[wicked woman]

I'm not trying to be a martyr. (actually what came to mind reading this was a stepford wife...is that what I am beccoming???)

I just want to make sure that we never get to a point in our relationship where he turns to others be it on the internet or on the phone. I talked to my priest about this when it first happened and he told me I had to forgive him (but that didn't mean forget it) and move past it and to (I'm trying to remember his exact words here) put the effort inot my marriage that I put into the other things in my life.

He said I gave in all the other areas of my life, my children, my church, my volunteer work, my friends to make sure I gave that same effort to my husband too.

And what advice did your priest give your husband?

*and without looking in the dictionary...give give give expecting/getting nothing in return...(admitted assumptions here)...hmmm...that's a kind of martyr to me...someone who doesn't think they deserve to have someone give to them*

 

[M's girl]

And what advice did your priest give your husband?

Never mind (well that's not true, but you know what I mean) what advice was given to the husband (if ever he went to receive some...); I'm not religious but it doesn't take a genius to figure out 'engaging in a threesome because it's the man's desire' is NOT exactly what the Priest meant by 'putting effort in your marriage'....

(... see? I did it again... said I was going to but out but I can't, sorry... or is it bud out? Nah....?)

 

[silverwhisper]

karen quoth
he said i gave in all the other areas of my life, my children, my church, my volunteer work, my friends to make sure i gave that same effort to my husband too.

as wicked woman said: that needs to be a two-way street. and every single one of your replies appears to ignore the question of whether he is or isn't reciprocating meaningfully. that is what's causing people to respond as they are. so let me ask you a simple question: is your husband really meeting you halfway, or somewhere else, or not at all?

b/c if the answer is anything other than halfway, then IMHO, your relationship is precisely the sort that should absolutely avoid any complicating factors, esp adding another person to your bed. that path leads to heartache. this could be a threat to your relationship and i don't believe, based upon your responses thus far, that you understand this.

i've been in a relationship where a threesome led to my not speaking w/ one of my closest friends for years. this is not something one does on a lark for most people.

ed

 

[karndav]

Your right in assuming my husband did not go and talk to our priest. And I am sure if I went to him now he would tell me he did not exactly mean to engage in a threesome. LOL!! But he did tellme that I put way too much effort into my children. I have a son who is bipolar and he requires a lot a effort but amybe not as much as I give. He tols me that maybe my engeries would be better placed on my marriage instead of on others. He said women get allinvolvedin givinag and can't learn to say no to obligations at the expense of their marriage and neglect what is most important, their spouse.

 

[M's girl]

Your right in assuming my husband did not go and talk to our priest. And I am sure if I went to him now he would tell me he did not exactly mean to engage in a threesome. LOL!! But he did tellme that I put way too much effort into my children. I have a son who is bipolar and he requires a lot a effort but amybe not as much as I give. He tols me that maybe my engeries would be better placed on my marriage instead of on others. He said women get allinvolvedin givinag and can't learn to say no to obligations at the expense of their marriage and neglect what is most important, their spouse.

I hear you. I know what you mean and by no means am I trying to belittle you or anything but I just see what's happening (from a distance, which is always easier to see; especially if it doesn't involve yourself). I read about your son and I'm sorry for you to have to deal with those difficulties too. Your husband should have worked with you on that one, and maybe he did. But if so, he would have been (should have been too) far too involved and engaged with these matters PLUS keeping your marriage and sexlife on track instead of anything else.

Also ask yourself this question. Why is it always the women who get so involved with the children to the extend (sometimes) that they don't have the time and the energy for anything else, especially if they have a job as well? I'm no feminist nor do I have children myself (well, part time now, M's two boys but that's different) but I see it happening all around me: women are just by nature there for their children ALL THE TIME. First of all it's biologically programmed that way I guess but also the man is just not always there. I'm not saying it's true for all men, but.... So it's not so strange you are spending so much time on your child/children. If your husband shares is the care for your son (children) then there's more time left for you to share with him. It's simple as that!

 

[penbeatsword]

Your right in assuming my husband did not go and talk to our priest. And I am sure if I went to him now he would tell me he did not exactly mean to engage in a threesome. LOL!! But he did tellme that I put way too much effort into my children. I have a son who is bipolar and he requires a lot a effort but amybe not as much as I give. He tols me that maybe my engeries would be better placed on my marriage instead of on others. He said women get allinvolvedin givinag and can't learn to say no to obligations at the expense of their marriage and neglect what is most important, their spouse.

I don't want to bring a world of hurt on myself by saying this, but I'm going to anyway. I'm going to assume that you are christian. Why is it that so often when we hear about advice from christian spiritual leaders, it seems to lead towards the woman being subservient to the man (i.e. in vulgar/direct terms doing what he wants), and that essentially the man is the "head of the household"? I suppose this is not the main point here, but I couldn't help but mention it....

Anyway, if you want to go and do something against your gut feelings (gut feelings seem to be right more often than not), then knock yourself out. But I'll tell you this, if you are so worried about him "drifting", and you are considering engaging in things that YOU don't seem to want or be comfortable with because you're afraid of losing him, then don't you see what's wrong with this picture? If he's going to cheat, he's going to cheat, and you may not even ever know about it. It seems like everyone is saying the same thing: a threesome out of desperation and not desire is A BIG MISTAKE, and one that you will most likely regret. Is there a possibility that you will in the end enjoy it and it will strengthen your relationship? I suppose, but what are the odds?.

I'm not trying to not give you credit for the progress you express that you've made. That is to be commended. But that doesn't mean that a threesome to PLEASE HIM despite that the idea makes you uncomfortable on some level is a logical next step to take. How about letting him do some things to prove to you his feelings?

Let's ask you this: what are YOUR fantasies? (you don't have to share them with us if you don't want to). Has he ever asked you what they are and what he can do to help you fulfill them? What does he do that is a "sacrifice" to him in order to keep you from "drifting?"

BTW, who will the focus be on in your threesome, you or your man? How do you feel about him and the other person touching each other? Kissing? Sucking? Fucking? Not to say that he would do any of that, but just consider for a moment if he did actually do any of those things. And how would he really feel about you fucking another guy?

Whatever you do, just make peace with yourself and your decision BEFORE you do it. And make sure you have full disclosure of your feelings with him and the other person.

 

[silverwhisper]

at the risk of threadjacking: pen, the reason for that is a passage in one of the pauline epistles (1 cor 11:13) which says:

the apostle paul (NIV)
now i want you to realize that the head of every man is christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is god.

that's why.

ed

 

[penbeatsword]

at the risk of threadjacking: pen, the reason for that is a passage in one of the pauline epistles (1 cor 11:13) which says:


that's why.

ed

I KNEW it! It's a christian conspiracy....a christianspiracy.....a christpiracy...okay, I need to get some more sleep

 

[EJFan]

it's not only a christian thing (though maybe of christian origin in most cases) but it's a cultural thing that, for some reason, people still struggle with.

if only radical feminists weren't so radical... and if male chauvanists weren't so chauvanistic...

ugh. can't we all just get along. we all just need to grow our own set of balls and not let groups (of religious ilk or otherwise) inject themselves into our routines.

 

[Exciteher]

....I just want to make sure that we never get to a point in our relationship where he turns to others be it on the internet or on the phone. ...

Karen, this is the clearest expression of what YOU want I have seen you make in this thread!

This is where you are starting from, you and your husband need to really work through everything surrounding this issue. Putting more balance in your relationship certainly will help, but to do that it seems to me you BOTH need to give each other more attention.... he to you.... as much as you to him.

 

[karndav]

you are right not only am I christian i am catholic!! Talk about the guilt!! LOL!!

Dave had a very hard time dealing with the issues concerning our son. to make a long story short, it took a long time to get him diagnosed, therapist after therapist blamed us as parents for his parents, put him on medication after medication which aggrevated his symptons and made things worse. It wasn;'t until his third hospitalization that I found my savior in a the form of a wonderful Dr. In the mean time Dave had whispering in his ear, his parents telling him that it was my fault for hospitalizing him that he needed beat more, beaten harder, that we shouldn't medicate him, that I was going to ruin his liver, his kidney whatever and to make things worse Dave was in Iceland at the time and I was dealing with this alone. Dealing with things like a broken foot which Jason broke, holes in walls which Jason sis, sending my daughter to stay with neighbors or relatives in the middle of the night so she would be safe, suicide threats and attempts, staying up all night with him so I could make sure he didn't hurt himself or me!! it was hell. After After 5 months he was finbally allowed to come home to help me.

many times Dave was gone due to military obligations including entire year in Korea during which jason spent most of the year unstable. It was the longest, hardest year of my life. But I made it thru and believe it or not I came out stronger. I could make decisons on my own concerning Jason's health care, I could battle the school, i could deal with the police, I could deal with people thinking all I needed to do was discipline him more, I could deal with my family telling me to put him in foster care. By the time Dave came home I was so entrenched in handling every situation and I didn;'t give up that power easily and since he had trouble handling the fact that his son had a mental illness he let me deal with most of the situations. Right or wrong thats what happened in a nutshell.

SInce then he has come to accept Jason's illness, has learned to deal with it and I have handed over some of the responilbility although somewhat reluctantly just because I ws so used to doing it but for the sake of my marriage I had to step back from my children, especially jason and let go.

As far as is he meeting me half way in pleasing me, yes I think he is. He is terrific in bed. He reciprocates in all ways. But I am a pleaser, I have always been, its my nature and I can't or maybe i should say I don't know how not to try to make him happy to please him however I know how. If my needs don't get met first i don't even notice cause I have always put him and other first. Why am I like this I don't know.

Maybe cause my dad always told me to do what i was told or get hit, he made my mom his sex object, maybe cause when I told my first boyfirend no he raped me and Dave was the person who got me out of that relationship and taught me that men could be gentle and i could say no and men would stop. That I could trust him to take care of me for the rest of my life and to always be there for me.

 

[penbeatsword]

You've been dealing with a heavy load, for sure. Catholic AND the issues you've had in your family? wow!

Being one who has been in a long term, long distance engagement (me on North American tours with a rock band; she in veterinary school in Edinburgh Scotland; we were separated more than we were together), I understand the stresses and strains it puts on a relationship, and the sex within it. Ultimately, sex (or the lack of it on her part; later she confessed she was seeing someone else overseas) was the impetus for breaking up.

I commend you for considering all options and avenues in seeking to maintain and strenghthen your relationship. We're not trying to dis your husband; rather, I think I can speak for the rest of us by saying we don't want to see you make decisions out of desperation that you are not ready to make.

I am a pleaser as well; getting others off turns me on and I want my partner to have multiple orgasms before I have even one.

Look, if after you are completely open and honest with your husband about all of your concerns, you have discussed and agreed upon what parameters are acceptable and what is crossing the line, you find a person you both agree upon and are comfortable with, have worked out the when/where/how details, and resolved the conflicts that currently exist, then what can we say? I think most of us feel that you haven't reached that point yet. Write out all of your concerns and then read them. As hard as it might be, put yourself in our shoes and try to see things objectively. If one of us was posting all of the things that you have, what would you be moved to say about them?

Just some food for thought....

 

[Lyrical Fool]

Karen, with your son having been diagnosed as bipolar, have you considered therapy for yourself?

Sounds like you have a *lot* to deal with. Going into therapy for help dealing with your son might be a great start, and lead to other discoveries which may help you in your whole-life.

 

[kenstrus2]

With things getting better and communication on a all time high shouldn't i do all I can to foster this high in our relationship? Isn't love about doing all you can to make the othe person happy and fulfilled and content??

It is but not at the cost of your own happiness in and out of the bedroom. If you're not 100% certain that your relationship is secure then I would suggest not going there at this time. A false sense of security can have tragic consequences. I hope that helps.

 

[Eilan]

if only radical feminists weren't so radical...

I consider myself a feminist, but I'm not of this ilk. It's sad that women who really are feminists don't/won't identify with feminism. But you and I have already had this conversation, haven't we?

Sorry for the hijack. I'm now returning you to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[karndav]

Karen, with your son having been diagnosed as bipolar, have you considered therapy for yourself?

Sounds like you have a *lot* to deal with. Going into therapy for help dealing with your son might be a great start, and lead to other discoveries which may help you in your whole-life.

I have been in therapy and was diagnosed with clinical depression and panic disorder i am now on meds and the panic attacks are pretty much under control and the derpression is gone. believe me when I say I am a whole lot better than I was. Three years ago, after I first discovered he was chatting and had gotten involvedin a letter writing thing with a woman I went into a very deep depression to the point where I baely got out of bed. I moved out for about a month because I realized I had to get away. My therapist and psychatrist were ready to commit me befroe the meds finally kicked in ( took about 6 months for that to happen) and I went through all kinds of self discovery.

We also spent may years in family therapy with Jason and at this point i feel therapied (is that a word??) out. I am on several medications and i am not depressed and can recognize the symptoms when it happens. this timewhen I found out he was chatting (AGAIN) I took the bull by the reins so to speak and setout to find out why the hell he kept going back to it after he promosied he wouldn't. ALthough he said it had nothing to do with me I didn't believe him and have worked hard to make sure I keep his attention on me. I am 100% sure he is no longer chatting. How do I knwo this, because he goes to bed with me and I hardly sleep these days. i am up most of the night and he is tucked in bed.

 

[M's girl]

This time when I found out he was chatting (AGAIN) I took the bull by the reins so to speak and setout to find out why the hell he kept going back to it after he promosied he wouldn't. ALthough he said it had nothing to do with me I didn't believe him and have worked hard to make sure I keep his attention on me. I am 100% sure he is no longer chatting. How do I knwo this, because he goes to bed with me and I hardly sleep these days. I am up most of the night and he is tucked in bed.

Gosh.... no, he's not chatting anymore... He can't, 'cause you are guarding him like a dog! I would to. Believe me, I would. But it's insane... he is nicely tucked in and I bet he sleeps like a rose. Not you, because you still feel you have to watch him so HE won't make the same mistake again. He will have to put the trust back into your relationship so you will feel save enough to go to sleep. Now see how rediculous that sounds if you take a step back? But that's where you're at. And that is "how solid" your relationship is at this moment. And that is why this is NOT the time to engage in a threesome. If you add things up....? One and one does not make three..... remember?

Take care!

 

[karndav]

Take a step back and look at this through everyone else's eyes. i'm trying. its funny i'm so good at giving advice but when it comes to me I wear these rose colored glasses ddon't I??

As far as guarding him, yeah thats exactly what I'm doing. But he told me to. he said to watch him like a hawk until I knew and feet comfortable with the fact that he wouldn't do this to me again. i told him i couldn't go thru it again, i couldn't be lied to again.

you know whats really funny, when I would find out he was chatting at the beginning I would say, ok you want to chat, JUST DON"T HIDE IT FROM ME!!! and everytime he would again hide it from me!! I just don;t get it. it was they lying I couldn't take.

 

[M's girl]

Take a step back and look at this through everyone else's eyes. i'm trying. its funny i'm so good at giving advice but when it comes to me I wear these rose colored glasses ddon't I??

As far as guarding him, yeah thats exactly what I'm doing. But he told me to. he said to watch him like a hawk until I knew and feet comfortable with the fact that he wouldn't do this to me again. i told him i couldn't go thru it again, i couldn't be lied to again.

you know whats really funny, when I would find out he was chatting at the beginning I would say, ok you want to chat, JUST DON"T HIDE IT FROM ME!!! and everytime he would again hide it from me!! I just don;t get it. it was they lying I couldn't take.

True, and I know how hard it is for you and how torn you must be.

I know this feeling that you HAVE to guard him comes from within yourself as well. But when you say that he asked you to..... I don't know Karen. Of course, he needs you to help him; you need to do this together, work this out together but now...? It sounds to me like he's putting way (way!!!) too much responsibility in your lap. Almost as if when you don't pay attention and he slips again it will be partly your fault too....? He is a grown, adult man who needs to take his responsibilities into his own hand and not make you a "partner in his crime"!

And I totally understand about the fact that the lying about was at least as bad as the act in itself. It's a trust issue. And you can't trust him yet....