U.S. politics isolation tank

[rosco rathbone]

Love the little girl at the end...

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/78605/liberals-still-funnier-conservatives

 

[JMohegan]

Love the little girl at the end...

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/78605/liberals-still-funnier-conservatives

Haha - she's even funnier in the sequel!

 

[Netzach]

Not rural? About 98% of America is rural. In terms of area anyway. It's basically rural dotted by high density, high crime, war zones called cities. That's a problem for progressives. Only republican clones can win as democrats in red states. The tea party is going to cleanse those people out of office. Along with moderate republicans. Is that good or bad? I don't know. But they are throwing a wrench into the whole system. Making America even more polarized. I suggest we split. Just give conservatives the Rocky Mountain states, Alaska, and Texas. You can have the west coast, east coast, New England, South, Midwest and Hawaii. I think that is more than fair. You can also have free passage across our boarders with an approved picture ID.

80 percent of the population lives in cities and subrubs so I don't know what you are smoking. Land doesn't vote so I don't get the point. http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/census/cps2k.htm

I also don't consider what I live in a "war zone" any more than every area is a war zone between people and corporate interests. You want to keep shitting on 80 percent of the nation that is soooo fucking great, go ahead, keep going. Eventually the third tier suburban yahoos flying the bagger lawn signs will have to move closer in - where the jobs are and their foreclosed house isn't. That's what's pissing them off so mightily, having to move next to people darker than they are.

Observation of the week: a preponderance of Horner lawn signs in the actual city and they outnumber Emmer ones just about everywhere. (Horner being the third party who is basically a pre-bagger republican, confusing enough?) Most third party support I've seen since Ventura. I think Dayton will basically have to eat children and wear puppy underwear to lose. It's not that I think Horner is going to win, but I think he's going to munch a lot more of the GOP vote than the polls might indicate, it'll be interesting.

 

[WriterDom]

Depends on who gets to define Urban. Twenty counties are called Urban Atlanta. The city of Atlanta is a little over half a million. Urban Atlanta is 5 million.

Also you are counting urban clusters of 2500? Well fuck, I'd be one up from that, the 4,000 - 49,999 population and we don't even have a Burger King. We don't have two of anything other than tattoo parlors and liquor stores and we're an urban area! Hot Damn Martha, we are city folks now!

Well, lots of Baptist churches. Within a horse and buggy ride of anywhere you live.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

By any measure except "empty land," we are not a rural nation. That shift has been enormous. But the extent and definition of that shift is an interesting question: are the edge towns on the edge of edge cities rural or urban? If a metro county adopts low-density zoning, is it rural or urban?

Still, 200 years ago, those who lived in close proximity were freaks. Now it's a huge majority.

I thought these maps were interesting:

If U.S. population were mountain ranges:

2008 electoral results by state:

...and that same map weighted by population per state (omits Hawaii and Alaska):

Lastly, states weighted by mention in country songs:

Hmmm...I'd like to overlay the last one on certain other political (and non-political) maps...

 

[JMohegan]

I spit coffee over that last one.

Nice graphics, DGE.

Observation of the week: a preponderance of Horner lawn signs in the actual city and they outnumber Emmer ones just about everywhere. (Horner being the third party who is basically a pre-bagger republican, confusing enough?) Most third party support I've seen since Ventura. I think Dayton will basically have to eat children and wear puppy underwear to lose. It's not that I think Horner is going to win, but I think he's going to munch a lot more of the GOP vote than the polls might indicate, it'll be interesting.

Click me, and scroll your cursor over the state. Silver's giving Dayton an 82% chance of a win.

Depends on who gets to define Urban. Twenty counties are called Urban Atlanta. The city of Atlanta is a little over half a million. Urban Atlanta is 5 million.

Also you are counting urban clusters of 2500? Well fuck, I'd be one up from that, the 4,000 - 49,999 population and we don't even have a Burger King. We don't have two of anything other than tattoo parlors and liquor stores and we're an urban area! Hot Damn Martha, we are city folks now!

Well, lots of Baptist churches. Within a horse and buggy ride of anywhere you live.

Check out the bottom lines of the table at Netzach's link. The 2,500-4,999 clusters only comprise 1.6% of total U.S. population. The clear majority, 58.3%, live in clusters of 200,000 or more.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I like that last one, too. I want to see how it compares to tea party membership, college football popularity and other stuff.

Speaking of which, The Washington Post tried to contact every single Tea Party group in America, and figure out how they operated, what their members believed and how they were connected. The results are here.

"...a new Washington Post canvass of hundreds of local tea party groups reveals a different sort of organization, one that is not so much a movement as a disparate band of vaguely connected gatherings that do surprisingly little to engage in the political process."

This reminds me somewhat of a piece I read recently comparing the Tea Party to the American counterculture movement of the 60s: unstructured and antiauthoritarian.

 

[rosco rathbone]

This reminds me somewhat of a piece I read recently comparing the Tea Party to the American counterculture movement of the 60s: unstructured and antiauthoritarian.

There's a good Lind piece about how Glenn Beck is the new Abbie Hoffmann.

Lately I've been feeling like all these libertarians are pushing me to actually become more conservative, although I think of myself as a liberal.

I can't imagine anything more opposite to my values than an Ayn Rand libertarian---unless it was one of the new breed of people who are attempting to reconcile Rand with Jesus.

So many of these tea party libertarian types give me that same old spoiled-rotten baby boomer vibe.

I've actually taken to reading American Conservative religiously.

 

[WriterDom]

I spit coffee over that last one.

Nice graphics, DGE.


Click me, and scroll your cursor over the state. Silver's giving Dayton an 82% chance of a win.



Check out the bottom lines of the table at Netzach's link. The 2,500-4,999 clusters only comprise 1.6% of total U.S. population. The clear majority, 58.3%, live in clusters of 200,000 or more.

But you are drawing a 50 mile circle around Atlanta and calling it Atlanta metro. Greenville SC has 50,000. Greenville metro has a half million. And every little town you are calling urban. Forget the 2500 to 5000 ones, a 10000 population town is a very small town. I'd hardly call it urban by any standard. 25,000 is a nice size for a town but you'd hardly call it a city.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Atlanta-metroclean.png

That's Atlanta metro. What I would call Atlanta would be the 3 or 4 counties in the center. What's inside of 285 if you are familar.

Tiger GA, pronounced Tigger, has 2000 people and I don't even think it has a town. It just missed being an urban area.

We can say more than half the people live within driving distance of a big city and leave it at that I guess.

 

[WriterDom]

But one thing is true like JM was hinting at. New York and California get 4 senators and the smallest 22 states which are about equal in population to NY and CA combined get 44 senators.

They could just make New England one state and be done with it. It's not like they play football or anything Outside of Connecticut, maybe. I can understand Wyoming being a state just on size alone but Rhode Island? Delaware? Vermont?

 

[midwestyankee]

25,000 is a nice size for a town but you'd hardly call it a city.

The city where I grew up had manufacturing, small surrounding towns that behaved like suburbs, and was the seat of the state government. It was urban in every way. And yet the population was roughly 25,000.

WD, I think you're pushing the definitions here in order to not lose the argument. We are not a rural nation, no matter how much country music hits the airwaves.

 

[WriterDom]

The city where I grew up had manufacturing, small surrounding towns that behaved like suburbs, and was the seat of the state government. It was urban in every way. And yet the population was roughly 25,000.

WD, I think you're pushing the definitions here in order to not lose the argument. We are not a rural nation, no matter how much country music hits the airwaves.

2500 is urban. They defined it. There is no pushing or pulling by me.

25,000 is a nice sized town. Lived in one for years. They had two banks that were about 7 stories high. That was it as far as skyscrapers went. They did have a mall though. But to get to the next urban center is was about 20 miles in any direction you went.

 

[JMohegan]

I don't think we're using enough vocabulary here.

The choices are not only urban or rural. There's a lot in between Manhattan (population density 71,000/sq.mile) and the set for Deliverance.

But one thing is true like JM was hinting at. New York and California get 4 senators and the smallest 22 states which are about equal in population to NY and CA combined get 44 senators.

Yeah, this is the bottom line on why it's so fucking hard for progressives to get anything done. The absurdly disproportionate power held by conservative states, that are mostly rural, in the US Senate.

 

[WriterDom]

My definition of urban is they have to have a public bdsm group posted on the internet. Chattanooga is urban, Asheville, Greenville, Athens, Atlanta of course. Augusta, Columbia, though I'm not sure if Augusta has anything at the moment. Charlotte! That's about it within my range. I have no idea what Alabama has, if anything. I think they made sex toys like dildos a crime there. Georgia isn't that backwoods. Cock sucking is legal here too.

Seems like NC has a law where the third party of an affair outside of the marriage can be sued. But don't quote me on it.

 

[BiBunny]

I have no idea what Alabama has, if anything.

Birmingham/Hoover, Montgomery, Huntsville/Decatur, Mobile, Tuscaloosa, Auburn/Opelika, Anniston/Oxford/Gadsden, Dothan. That's about the extent of it.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

My definition of urban is they have to have a public bdsm group posted on the internet. Chattanooga is urban, Asheville, Greenville, Athens, Atlanta of course. Augusta, Columbia, though I'm not sure if Augusta has anything at the moment. Charlotte! That's about it within my range...

An interesting definition. I used to think it was having a Starbucks. But now they're in the middle of every other soybean field.

I don't think we're using enough vocabulary here.

The choices are not only urban or rural. There's a lot in between Manhattan (population density 71,000/sq.mile) and the set for Deliverance.

Yeah, this is the bottom line on why it's so fucking hard for progressives to get anything done. The absurdly disproportionate power held by conservative states, that are mostly rural, in the US Senate.

I think that was called the Great Compromise, right? It isn't wearing well. I'm for making senators proportional to population, and dumping the electoral college. At least, until a liberal wins the electoral vote and sneaks into office without the popular vote. Then I'll probably rethink it.

I think we're getting hung up vocabulary, as well. There are a lot of connotations to the words "rural" and "urban." Probably just referring to the population density per square mile of a county or census block would be a more useful measure. If you wanted to, you could establish categories there, too: High, medium and low density. Most people used to lived in low density areas. Now most live in high or medium-density areas.

 

[rosco rathbone]

http://motherjones.com/special-reports/2010/11/attack-on-middle-class

 

[Netzach]

There's a good Lind piece about how Glenn Beck is the new Abbie Hoffmann.

Lately I've been feeling like all these libertarians are pushing me to actually become more conservative, although I think of myself as a liberal.

I can't imagine anything more opposite to my values than an Ayn Rand libertarian---unless it was one of the new breed of people who are attempting to reconcile Rand with Jesus.

So many of these tea party libertarian types give me that same old spoiled-rotten baby boomer vibe.

I've actually taken to reading American Conservative religiously.

This was a thing that finally sunk in for me talking to my aunt - she was as "you are blinded by the propaganda of the man" as an old hippie boomer - where this kind of thing eats its own tail.

Fortunately, I don't think this is the main legacy of the sixties.

 

[intothewoods]

This was a thing that finally sunk in for me talking to my aunt - she was as "you are blinded by the propaganda of the man" as an old hippie boomer - where this kind of thing eats its own tail.

Fortunately, I don't think this is the main legacy of the sixties.

That's kind of funny. There was a reason my parents were radicals who couldn't really stand hippies.

It's so fucking weird that the left is perceived to be the fucking man now.

 

[midwestyankee]

That's kind of funny. There was a reason my parents were radicals who couldn't really stand hippies.

It's so fucking weird that the left is perceived to be the fucking man now.

Perceived this way by whom?

 

[intothewoods]

Perceived this way by whom?

By tea baggers - and if you think about it, the seeds were kinda sown when Clinton was in office. Everything was a conspiracy.

Clinton was so good at being the every man though. Last time I was watching him interviewed on the Daily Show I thought, damn, he is good. Obama is an amazing speaker, better than Clinton, but Clinton one on one is something else.

 

[intothewoods]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/22/AR2010102202873.html

If I'm an elite anything, I will eat my toenails. What the heck?

 

[midwestyankee]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/22/AR2010102202873.html

If I'm an elite anything, I will eat my toenails. What the heck?

From the linked article:

There so many quintessentially American things that few members of the New Elite have experienced. They probably haven't ever attended a meeting of a Kiwanis Club or Rotary Club, or lived for at least a year in a small town (college doesn't count) or in an urban neighborhood in which most of their neighbors did not have college degrees (gentrifying neighborhoods don't count). They are unlikely to have spent at least a year with a family income less than twice the poverty line (graduate school doesn't count) or to have a close friend who is an evangelical Christian. They are unlikely to have even visited a factory floor, let alone worked on one.​

Attended Kiwanis or Rotary? Yes
Lived in a small town? Yes
Spent at least a year with a family income less than 2X poverty line? No.
Have a close friend who is an evangelical Christian? Yes
Worked on a factory floor? Yes

Guess I'm not one of the New Elite, either.Where's that Tea Party application? Yee Haw!

 

[rosco rathbone]

http://nymag.com/news/politics/69130/

There's an story arc the media won't be able to resist: from "The candidate Dems were praying for because she's supposedly unelectable" to "They Said The Same Thing About Reagan".

I stand by my prediction.

 

[intothewoods]

From the linked article:

There so many quintessentially American things that few members of the New Elite have experienced. They probably haven't ever attended a meeting of a Kiwanis Club or Rotary Club, or lived for at least a year in a small town (college doesn't count) or in an urban neighborhood in which most of their neighbors did not have college degrees (gentrifying neighborhoods don't count). They are unlikely to have spent at least a year with a family income less than twice the poverty line (graduate school doesn't count) or to have a close friend who is an evangelical Christian. They are unlikely to have even visited a factory floor, let alone worked on one.​

Attended Kiwanis or Rotary? Yes
Lived in a small town? Yes
Spent at least a year with a family income less than 2X poverty line? No.
Have a close friend who is an evangelical Christian? Yes
Worked on a factory floor? Yes

Guess I'm not one of the New Elite, either.Where's that Tea Party application? Yee Haw!

Also, who hasn't heard of Branson, Missouri? I haven't been there, but I've heard of it. And I've totally seen an entire episode of Oprah!


On an unrelated note, during the presidential primaries, Hillary's divisiveness was an issue. People hated HRC. Absolutely hated her. Now all of that hatred is directed at our colonialist Muslim foreign-born leader. I mean, not unexpected but it's just funny that HRC has fairly high approval ratings now.