U.S. politics isolation tank

[BiBunny]

This is a sore topic for BiBunny because Alabama refuses to do it and thousands of them cross to border to pay into our system. Just like SC did before they finally passed one. With a republican governor no less. We had "give em Hell, Zell" sign ours. If your governor says "no" you are fucked. Like Alabama and Mississippi.

Hell to the yes. Fuck Bob Riley and the horse he rode in on. I don't know how well you keep up with what's going on over here, but have you heard about the massive shutdown of GreeneTrack and the Macon County track and others because of the slot machines? OMFG. There are just no words.

It's kinda like my Daddy says. If you want to thump the Bible and bitch about the lottery, you've obviously never had to put a kid (or yourself) through school. Douchebags.

 

[WriterDom]

Poor Billy Bob can't go buy a couple of lottery tickets after his shift at the Dairy Queen is over because he'll go straight to hell, but Spencer, whose father funded his four years of Frat fun at Alabama and now has a comfortable living at his father in law's Cadillac business in Birmingham, can walk in the broker's office at the bank at lunchtime and lay a couple of thousand down on some hot stock pick that his buddy overheard in NYC the day before. But that's business and not gambling, right? Right!

When they say only rich kids are getting Hope scholarships in Georgia tell them that half the scholarships are going to the vo-tech schools where a lot of kids end up who don't have the grades to get into college.

 

[midwestyankee]

WD, you're absolutely right to characterize state-run lotteries as taxes on the poor. They're a very, very cynical use of the state's perceived fairness to extract money from the poor to help legislators avoid raising taxes that their wealthier supporters would have to pay. Gawd help us if a lawyer making 300 grand should have to pay an extra 1/4 percent on his adjusted gross income after taking the interest deduction on his 10G per month house note and his "losses" from that high-flying hedge fund.

 

[Netzach]

Do you have a lottery? I don't see the difference between a lottery and any other form of gambling. We have the lottery in Georgia and it's a double edged sword in my mind. I have no doubts that kids have gone to be hungry because of someone's gambling addiction.

Yes we do.

You know what, I hate to say this, I see it as I do beer. This idea that the poors cannot control themselves like the riches so we must limit what they drink/sin/do is residual 1900 crap that I cannot abide.

UMN tuition I think is 10-12 grand a YEAR for in state residents no matter how smart you are. And going up because Tpaw doesn't think that it should be accessible if the riches have to pay for it.

Gambling will be a problem for some people. It will be a small weekly indulgence for others, my mom played about 5 10 bucks of lotto weekly when I was a kid and I still had shoes.

 

[Netzach]

WD, you're absolutely right to characterize state-run lotteries as taxes on the poor. They're a very, very cynical use of the state's perceived fairness to extract money from the poor to help legislators avoid raising taxes that their wealthier supporters would have to pay. Gawd help us if a lawyer making 300 grand should have to pay an extra 1/4 percent on his adjusted gross income after taking the interest deduction on his 10G per month house note and his "losses" from that high-flying hedge fund.

Sure, but after a while where the money comes from becomes a rhetorical sport - the fact that the GOP refuses to believe that there should be money from anywhere that is adrift in unreality. The fact that the third party is actually grounded in the fiscal reality that you cannot have absolutely no revenue is an interesting development, IMO.

 

[midwestyankee]

Yes we do.

You know what, I hate to say this, I see it as I do beer. This idea that the poors cannot control themselves like the riches so we must limit what they drink/sin/do is residual 1900 crap that I cannot abide.

Gambling will be a problem for some people. It will be a small weekly indulgence for others, my mom played about 5 10 bucks of lotto weekly when I was a kid and I still had shoes.

Netz, I think you may be inferring that by criticizing the state lotteries we're making moral judgments about the people who play them. I'm not. I throw a few bucks at the lottery here any time the big prize gets into 9-figure territory.

My point is that the lotteries exist primarily because they form a revenue stream that is outside the realm of taxation. And because legislators knew damn well that the majority of people who would plunk down their few bucks per week for the Super Wicked Jumbo Lotto Bonanza Mega Prize would be from the lower economic echelons. It's a disguised regressive tax, pure and simple.

 

[Netzach]

Netz, I think you may be inferring that by criticizing the state lotteries we're making moral judgments about the people who play them. I'm not. I throw a few bucks at the lottery here any time the big prize gets into 9-figure territory.

My point is that the lotteries exist primarily because they form a revenue stream that is outside the realm of taxation. And because legislators knew damn well that the majority of people who would plunk down their few bucks per week for the Super Wicked Jumbo Lotto Bonanza Mega Prize would be from the lower economic echelons. It's a disguised regressive tax, pure and simple.

I don't know about you but I'm unsure we can stay this finicky about how progressive a tax is or isn't. I used to hate the idea of consumption/use taxes with every fibre of my being but I think I hate seeing the entire social system of a state dismantled by wishful rich 'tards who think they can always move to higher ground when the flood starts.

People get the government they deserve. If billybob jensen up here is happy that he's not paying for welfare at the rate of 10 cents a week but shelling out 10 bucks on lotto out of his 150 dollar social security check, he's getting the government he deserves.

 

[midwestyankee]

I don't know about you but I'm unsure we can stay this finicky about how progressive a tax is or isn't. I used to hate the idea of consumption/use taxes with every fibre of my being but I think I hate seeing the entire social system of a state dismantled by wishful rich 'tards who think they can always move to higher ground when the flood starts.

Exactly. And it gnaws at my gut to see corporations and wealthy individuals putting fences around that higher ground to claim it as solely their own while expecting others to pay for the land.

 

[Keroin]

Netz, I think you may be inferring that by criticizing the state lotteries we're making moral judgments about the people who play them. I'm not. I throw a few bucks at the lottery here any time the big prize gets into 9-figure territory.

9-figure???!!!

 

[midwestyankee]

9-figure???!!!

Yes. Every now and again the big prize in one of our two (count 'em, two) state lotteries will top $100 million. For that kind of money I'll throw away a sawbuck.

 

[BiBunny]

Netz, I think you may be inferring that by criticizing the state lotteries we're making moral judgments about the people who play them. I'm not. I throw a few bucks at the lottery here any time the big prize gets into 9-figure territory.

My point is that the lotteries exist primarily because they form a revenue stream that is outside the realm of taxation. And because legislators knew damn well that the majority of people who would plunk down their few bucks per week for the Super Wicked Jumbo Lotto Bonanza Mega Prize would be from the lower economic echelons. It's a disguised regressive tax, pure and simple.

Yeah, but it beats the shit out of the actual regressive income taxes we've got now. Alabama has either the most or one of the most regressive income taxes in the country. The poor pay; the rich don't. We're one of the only states that still levy a state sales tax on food and medicine.

On the other hand, we have the lowest property taxes, and corporations pay very little in taxes to the state. There's currently a $14.4 billion deficit in the budget, despite the fact that social programs, education, etc. suck ass so badly here that we score at the bottom or near the bottom of every metric that measures them. The last 2 years, Alabama hasn't been able to even pay people back their own income tax refunds in a timely manner because there wasn't enough money in the coffers. I know last year, some people were still waiting for their refunds in October.

Corporate statist utopia indeed.

 

[WriterDom]

Well Alabama sucks. Local taxes apply to food here. So it's 3% on food and 7% on everything else.


But your state income tax is 5% while ours is 6%.

Florida has none. Which is why if you are Tiger Woods, you live there.

Or move to Alaska where there is no tax and they just stuff wads of money in your pocket for no reason. Of course it has gotten to -80 there. What New Englanders would call short sleeve weather.

 

[BiBunny]

Well Alabama sucks. Local taxes apply to food here. So it's 3% on food and 7% on everything else.


But your state income tax is 5% while ours is 6%.

Florida has none. Which is why if you are Tiger Woods, you live there.

Or move to Alaska where there is no tax and they just stuff wads of money in your pocket for no reason. Of course it has gotten to -80 there. What New Englanders would call short sleeve weather.

Y'all's property taxes are probably higher than ours, too.

 

[midwestyankee]

Well Alabama sucks. Local taxes apply to food here. So it's 3% on food and 7% on everything else.


But your state income tax is 5% while ours is 6%.

Florida has none. Which is why if you are Tiger Woods, you live there.

Or move to Alaska where there is no tax and they just stuff wads of money in your pocket for no reason. Of course it has gotten to -80 there. What New Englanders would call short sleeve weather.

I was a decent cross country runner in high school and got relatively good grades. The only college that actively recruited me was the University of Alaska. I considered it for a couple weeks and then I discovered that their summers can hit a sweltering 71 degrees and I decided to stay closer to home. I like my cool weather, thanks.

 

[rosco rathbone]

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/10/why-foreclosure-fraud-is-so-dangerous-to-property-rights/

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/10/18/101018fa_fact_wilentz

 

[Netzach]

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/10/why-foreclosure-fraud-is-so-dangerous-to-property-rights/

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/10/18/101018fa_fact_wilentz

RE: #1

What galls me is that it's seen as this radical and insane thing people are doing when they leave the key and walk away - when commercial properties people do the exact same thing every day - it's lauded as a good business decision when you are tanking to walk away from a bad property investment. Just walk away and default on it. They do this, declare a bankruptcy and are back in the game again.

When individuals do this, the wrath of God is invoked.

 

[rosco rathbone]

RE: #1

What galls me is that it's seen as this radical and insane thing people are doing when they leave the key and walk away - when commercial properties people do the exact same thing every day - it's lauded as a good business decision when you are tanking to walk away from a bad property investment. Just walk away and default on it. They do this, declare a bankruptcy and are back in the game again.

When individuals do this, the wrath of God is invoked.

Did you see the John Stewart where they bust the mortgage banker trade association for walking on the mortgage on their HQ? Priceless.

 

[WriterDom]

RE: #1

What galls me is that it's seen as this radical and insane thing people are doing when they leave the key and walk away .

It's perfectly sane if you can't make the payment and your equity has evaporated.

Think it was Marquis who said he had no job and no down payment and the bank was wanting to put him in a $300,000 dollar house. Or words to that effect. Before the shit hit the fan.

 

[Netzach]

Did you see the John Stewart where they bust the mortgage banker trade association for walking on the mortgage on their HQ? Priceless.

No I did not! Gold. I'll have to find that.

 

[intothewoods]

The Left-Right Paradigm is Over: It's You Vs Corporations

Where Is Huey Long When You Need Him?

I particularly like the first one, especially the analysis of the Clinton years. I think the right fiscal reformer could really unite people. Like Ralph Nader without that checkered commie past.

 

[Homburg]

I have a lot of questions about the tea party. I can't remember if I posted this on this board elsewhere, but I heard an interview with some author on NPR who wrote a book on the various tea party groups. Evidently the main unifying theme is really financial policy rather than social. The big beef is with the various bailouts and stimulus. Ok, but I can't think of a prominent tea party candidate who isn't socially conservative. I think if you actually had a party that was focused on minimal government involvement in both fiscal and social matters, you might have a serious contender. Then again, how's that libertarian party doing these days.

If they weren't such fuckwitted social conservatives, I wouldn't hate them so. They might be a positive force for change within the GOP. As is, they're just more extremists with an intensely stupid name.

 

[intothewoods]

If they weren't such fuckwitted social conservatives, I wouldn't hate them so. They might be a positive force for change within the GOP. As is, they're just more extremists with an intensely stupid name.

Plus I don't really know what their fiscal policy is. I get that it's not one unified party, but I can't even think of the sound bites other than repeal health care. Lower taxes I presume. Free market, sure. So no wall street reform? No changes to health care? Why is it that the candidates and leading figures are all, well, nuts? Forget the corporations v. the rest of us paradigm. How about anti and pro intellectual/science/education? Ok, so that doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

 

[Netzach]

Plus I don't really know what their fiscal policy is. I get that it's not one unified party, but I can't even think of the sound bites other than repeal health care. Lower taxes I presume. Free market, sure. So no wall street reform? No changes to health care? Why is it that the candidates and leading figures are all, well, nuts? Forget the corporations v. the rest of us paradigm. How about anti and pro intellectual/science/education? Ok, so that doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

I think it's something like BILDERBERGS ZOG, OMG. So I understandably demur on the question of rational discourse. The anti-semitic fringes are as entrenched as the racist ones - there's a medieval Germanic feel to the whole thing.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I think it's something like BILDERBERGS ZOG, OMG. So I understandably demur on the question of rational discourse. The anti-semitic fringes are as entrenched as the racist ones - there's a medieval Germanic feel to the whole thing.

I hang out on Stormfront-as an observer, natch-all the time. Fascinating place.

 

[intothewoods]

I think it's something like BILDERBERGS ZOG, OMG. So I understandably demur on the question of rational discourse. The anti-semitic fringes are as entrenched as the racist ones - there's a medieval Germanic feel to the whole thing.

What's a little nazi reenactment between friends?

Btw, I'm sure that guy's a douche because, well, it's just a safe bet, but am I the only one who thinks the reenactment stuff is kinda funny? I kind of feel like it's akin to being a trekkie. But maybe I'm wrong and they're all neo-nazis.