U.S. politics isolation tank

[midwestyankee]

And you don't know that everyone's taxes are set to go up if congress does nothing? I hope for God's sake you do know that and are just being obtuse on purpose.

Yes, taxes will return to levels they were at when Bush took over. I'm not being obtuse at all. My point is that no one is legislating an increase in taxes. Letting tax cuts expire - as they were designed to do - is not the same thing as legislating to raise taxes. The end result is the same, but it's a very appealing and convenient lie - and it's a lie sure as hell - to claim that the Democrats are raising taxes.

I call bullshit when I see it, WD.

 

[midwestyankee]

I'm furious at the bailout heist too. I read Naked Capitalism and my head feels like it's going to pop off.

They just lose me on the tribal resentment/politics of ressentiment thing.

Heist? Are you kidding me?

Read this and then tell me it was a heist (as in money was stolen never to be seen again).

 

[WriterDom]

I have a feeling they are going to be disappointed.

There may or may not be disappointment in the results. No one can predict what will happen. We survived the misery index invented by Carter. Before that Vietnam, Nixon, even a unregistered sex offender! And of course Bush who is running two points behind Obama in a CNN poll. How is that for the mood of the country!

But disappointment in how her congressperson or senator votes? I think that is the sweeping change here. If they don't tow the line they'll be gone. Snowe will be voted out in 2012 even if it means losing the seat to a democrat. But democrats will have their own problems as well. A whole bevy of blue states will be up next cycle.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Heist? Are you kidding me?

Read this and then tell me it was a heist (as in money was stolen never to be seen again).

I sure hope we get the money back.

This, though:

A final accounting of the government’s full range of interventions in the economy, including the bailouts of the mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, is years off and will most likely remain controversial and potentially costly.

Not to mention the economic destruction/fallout.

My attitude towards the TARP was always "when the kidnapper mails you a finger, you pay the ransom". So I'm glad it seems to be working.

 

[Netzach]

There may or may not be disappointment in the results. No one can predict what will happen. We survived the misery index invented by Carter. Before that Vietnam, Nixon, even a unregistered sex offender! And of course Bush who is running two points behind Obama in a CNN poll. How is that for the mood of the country!

But disappointment in how her congressperson or senator votes? I think that is the sweeping change here. If they don't tow the line they'll be gone. Snowe will be voted out in 2012 even if it means losing the seat to a democrat. But democrats will have their own problems as well. A whole bevy of blue states will be up next cycle.

Who's disappointment, WD, most people's or just the shoutiest people? Because if mad electoral outlier from Saturn MN is any indicator, the shouty people are not going to win necessarily. They are noisy but they are not a majority and a third party talking fiscal sobriety without the stupid nonsense about gay marriage at a time like this is going to upset it for the irrational.

The GOP strategy of reaching out to the weirdest and loudest and embracing them to their bosom lasts as long as the photo ops don't contain a swastika. Now I know where Eric Cantor draws his personal line in the sand, puke.

You seriously think that NO people are concerned as they watch their kids having to sell candy for pens at school and wondering when we're going to have to have toll roads? Some people, sadly, can still read AND think at the same time, and know that the revenue for - normalcy - has to come from someplace. Frankly they're too busy driving said kids to school to get on a FOX news bus and hang congressional reps in effigy.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Who's disappointment, WD, most people's or just the shoutiest people? Because if mad electoral outlier from Saturn MN is any indicator, the shouty people are not going to win necessarily.

Liberals: the new silent majority?

 

[WriterDom]

Yes, taxes will return to levels they were at when Bush took over. I'm not being obtuse at all. My point is that no one is legislating an increase in taxes. Letting tax cuts expire - as they were designed to do - is not the same thing as legislating to raise taxes. The end result is the same, but it's a very appealing and convenient lie - and it's a lie sure as hell - to claim that the Democrats are raising taxes.

I call bullshit when I see it, WD.

Please tell me you read that somewhere and didn't come up with it on your own. Unless it was carved into tablets and handed to Moses, I 'm pretty sure a simple fix would be in order. If taxes go up, Americans will know who to blame.

I think the only valid argument left to have is do we extend the rate on the highest bracket. And while I'm not that opposed to raising it later, next year isn't the right time.

 

[Netzach]

Liberals: the new silent majority?

No, moderates. People who would like to see less money thrown down the shitter, but don't necessarily want to become their own shotgun shack sovereign state.

 

[Netzach]

Please tell me you read that somewhere and didn't come up with it on your own. Unless it was carved into tablets and handed to Moses, I 'm pretty sure a simple fix would be in order. If taxes go up, Americans will know who to blame.

I think the only valid argument left to have is do we extend the rate on the highest bracket. And while I'm not that opposed to raising it later, next year isn't the right time.

What, because then they won't go shopping and the Grinch will steal Christmas? Because they're going to ship that job to China? Oh, wait, they did.

 

[WriterDom]

The GOP strategy of reaching out to the weirdest and loudest and embracing them

.

When I see GOP my first thought is "Fuck the GOP." You think they embraced these people in the primaries? But once they win, they become the republican nominee and if money is being spread around, they deserve their share.

Isakson is pretty well liked here so I wasn't faced with a tea party choice. When you are well liked its hard for some batshit crazy person to come out of the woods and have a chance in a republican primary. The only person I could even imagine pondering over would be if Zell Miller ran as a republican and he's a little old now.

 

[midwestyankee]

When I see GOP my first thought is "Fuck the GOP." You think they embraced these people in the primaries? But once they win, they become the republican nominee and if money is being spread around, they deserve their share.

Isakson is pretty well liked here so I wasn't faced with a tea party choice. When you are well liked its hard for some batshit crazy person to come out of the woods and have a chance in a republican primary. The only person I could even imagine pondering over would be if Zell Miller ran as a republican and he's a little old now.

Did I miss something or did Christine O'Donnell, Sharon Angle, and Rand Paul run in some third party primary and then were magically inducted into the Republican party after they won? No, I think it's pretty clear that they ran as Republicans. Now, it's true that some of the big-money donors had to hold their noses when they ponied up after the primaries, but that's the consequence when you let Fox News run your party.

For a couple of decades now the Republicans have been telling us that the government is filled with crazy people who don't know shit about how to govern. Now they have the candidates to make it true.

 

[intothewoods]

Beck got the Wilson meme from Jonah Goldberg's polemic Liberal Fascism and ran with it. When he throws his weight behind a meme, it takes off like a rocket.

At least he's gotten the masses interested in what would seem to be a very boring topic. Anything that gets people reading books is a start in my opinion.

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2008/01/liberal-fascism-response.html

The interesting thing about the "some bias or influence in everything" idea is that it originally came out of the academic left. Strange bedfellows to say the least.

Oh yes, I did read that. And yeah, a bunch of his fans ID as historians and history buffs. It's kind of funny. I have to admit, I find Glenn Beck sort of .... hmmm, what's the word...intriguing? I've only heard him interviewed, never seen his show, but I don't get that blah blah blah I can predict what comes next feeling like I do when I hear, say, Rush or O'Reilly. Most likely that's because Glenn Beck is, well, kind of insane.

Have you read Nixonland? I feel like we might be repeating a discussion we already had, so bear with me if I'm just repeating myself like an old man.

My understanding is that it was the Civil Rights legislation, the riots and all the rest of it that had a lot to do with the Great Society coming unglued.

Yes, what was that statistic I just heard somewhere. Some really high percentage of Americans supported Johnson's anti-poverty legislation when it passed. Today he'd be hung in effigy. Fuck, if ever there was a leader ripe for conspiracy theories, it's LBJ. I mean, he named everything ... LBJ. That's weird!

 

[rosco rathbone]

Yikes: http://mediamatters.org/blog/201010140032


http://www.slate.com/id/2270037/

 

[rosco rathbone]

Through the contrast in these increases, the CEO implicitly sends this message: "I am the powerful emperor who created the entire increase in the value of the corporation. All of you, our dedicated and loyal employees, contributed virtually nothing."2 One can only recall the dictum of King Louis XIV : "L'état cést moi."

These excesses in executive compensation, and the directly related machinations of financial statements, reflected the erosion in the conduct and values of our business leaders during the recent era, when something went wrong with American capitalism. The system - which had served us well for so long - changed, one more aberration in the long course of capitalism. While each of its earlier failures was followed by safeguards put in place as defenses against future abuses, none of them contemplated the next sort of scandal that, perhaps almost inevitably, would follow.

"Democracy in Corporate America" by John Bogle, founder of Vanguard Group

 

[midwestyankee]

For all those skeptics who like to proclaim that the President has lousy ratings from the populace, consider this: currently President Obama has a 26% better job approval rating from the people than Congress, 52% to 26%. This is nearly the largest such differential in modern history.

Somehow the fact that Obama has twice the job approval of Congress doesn't square with all those "Obama's approval rating is in the tank" stories from Fox, now does it?

Source

 

[Netzach]

For all those skeptics who like to proclaim that the President has lousy ratings from the populace, consider this: currently President Obama has a 26% better job approval rating from the people than Congress, 52% to 26%. This is nearly the largest such differential in modern history.

Somehow the fact that Obama has twice the job approval of Congress doesn't square with all those "Obama's approval rating is in the tank" stories from Fox, now does it?

Source

There's some interesting X-factor. Huh. Really interesting.

1. the country isn't as far right as everyone thinks
2. the country isn't as far left as everyone thinks
3. the blame is being laid at the feet of Reid Pelosi Frank and frankly - BELONGS there to large extent - the fact that they're dems is irrelevant to people who are fed up with corporate purchase of reps period
4. there are 2 honest neocons in congress and people actually like neocons - fuck I tolerate neocons if they stay with the program and cut their own pork too.

 

[rosco rathbone]

http://crookedtimber.org/2010/10/15/the-other-shoe/#more-17453

 

[WriterDom]

For all those skeptics who like to proclaim that the President has lousy ratings from the populace, consider this: currently President Obama has a 26% better job approval rating from the people than Congress, 52% to 26%. This is nearly the largest such differential in modern history.

Somehow the fact that Obama has twice the job approval of Congress doesn't square with all those "Obama's approval rating is in the tank" stories from Fox, now does it?

Source

Leave it to you to find a silver lining. Part of the reason the "gap" is so great is the disapproval of congress is so great. Obama was at 43% approval today at Rasmussen, your favorite poll. That's a 22 point drop in less than two years. Blacks, gays, and hard core liberals will approve of Obama no matter what. Along with most of the MTV crowd. Independents have left Obama in droves. Which is why I wouldn't be too optimistic about the coming election if I were you.

 

[rosco rathbone]

What do you think of Mitch Daniels, WD.

I see he's being talked up in Frum Forum.

 

[Netzach]

http://crookedtimber.org/2010/10/15/the-other-shoe/#more-17453

Does this even come as a surprise to anyone? My cynicism finds a new floor each day.

 

[Netzach]

Leave it to you to find a silver lining. Part of the reason the "gap" is so great is the disapproval of congress is so great. Obama was at 43% approval today at Rasmussen, your favorite poll. That's a 22 point drop in less than two years. Blacks, gays, and hard core liberals will approve of Obama no matter what. Along with most of the MTV crowd. Independents have left Obama in droves. Which is why I wouldn't be too optimistic about the coming election if I were you.

No shit, that's the reason for it. Unless and until there's some kind of reasonable alternative to Obama being floated, people will disapprove without being able to translate that disapproval or disappointment into anything else.

Sarah Palin is not a reasonable alternative, so shouty mcshouterson gains an inflated sense of his political importance in his echo chamber.

 

[WriterDom]

No shit, that's the reason for it. Unless and until there's some kind of reasonable alternative to Obama being floated, people will disapprove without being able to translate that disapproval or disappointment into anything else.

Sarah Palin is not a reasonable alternative, so shouty mcshouterson gains an inflated sense of his political importance in his echo chamber.

Roscoe's girl, Sarah. I think that would be a very bad idea. Liberal turnout would be 100% and 110% in Chicago. They'll be a process and someone will win the primary and odds are they'll lose to Obama. I don't see anyone with "rock star" appeal without the negatives of Palin. But I have always said lets get through this election then worry about 2012.

 

[midwestyankee]

Leave it to you to find a silver lining. Part of the reason the "gap" is so great is the disapproval of congress is so great. Obama was at 43% approval today at Rasmussen, your favorite poll. That's a 22 point drop in less than two years. Blacks, gays, and hard core liberals will approve of Obama no matter what. Along with most of the MTV crowd. Independents have left Obama in droves. Which is why I wouldn't be too optimistic about the coming election if I were you.

Please link to a Rasmussen poll result showing that Obama had a job approval rating of 65%. I hope you can appreciate my skepticism on this. I doubt if even Jesus ever had a 65% approval rating via Rasmussen.

You speak of "Blacks, gays, and hard core liberals " as if they constitute a population that is to be reviled for their stupidity. Think about that for a moment.

And if the "MTV crowd" is losing interest in the President, it's because his policies are too centrist for their taste. But that doesn't fit your little Rushian worldview, does it?

 

[intothewoods]

Leave it to you to find a silver lining. Part of the reason the "gap" is so great is the disapproval of congress is so great. Obama was at 43% approval today at Rasmussen, your favorite poll. That's a 22 point drop in less than two years. Blacks, gays, and hard core liberals will approve of Obama no matter what. Along with most of the MTV crowd. Independents have left Obama in droves. Which is why I wouldn't be too optimistic about the coming election if I were you.

Ha ha ha. Yes, all of the gays just love Obama right now.

Obviously the next election will not be good for democrats. And Obama will probably do fine in that scenario, similar to Clinton in his second term. Fun for score keeping, not so fun for getting anything accomplished. The GOP old timers and the tea party types will be a fun little family to watch. And then politics goes on. Money/corporate interests are still king, and every politician is beholden to somebody. A few somebodies.

 

[intothewoods]

Please link to a Rasmussen poll result showing that Obama had a job approval rating of 65%. I hope you can appreciate my skepticism on this. I doubt if even Jesus ever had a 65% approval rating via Rasmussen.

You speak of "Blacks, gays, and hard core liberals " as if they constitute a population that is to be reviled for their stupidity. Think about that for a moment.

And if the "MTV crowd" is losing interest in the President, it's because his policies are too centrist for their taste. But that doesn't fit your little Rushian worldview, does it?

The MTV crowd is gonzo.