Usage of underaged characters in stories...

[gauchecritic]

i'd think not cause you've always got the stories about the girls who shave themselves to look younger and so forth

Or look under 18 like chicklet and Mathgirl.

Being obseqious instead of

Gauche

(I was going to use arse licking instead of obseqious and I wish I had (or was))

 

[MathGirl]

Adulthood

Or look under 18 like chicklet and Mathgirl.

I'll have you know that I'm well over eighteen. Harrumph!

 

[flawed_ethics]

Wow, quite the response. I agree the easiest thing to do would be to make the girl 18 instead of 17. A lot of stories do, but I feel it cheapens the story a bit. "Wow, she was magically eighteen! How about that!" Usually, it's a sign the author didn't have them pictured as 18 - probably younger, but for all stated reasons decided to change it to get the story up without any arguments.

Sexually, the sister does nothing. The story tries to paint the two as being really close as they grew up. It's in the brother's dream that she happens to be in when his mother starts giving him a blowjob. He interprets it as a sexual lean towards his sister (he doesn't know his mom is giving him head until he wakes up), and tries to resist it, knowing it's wrong. Before he wakes up he realizes what a mess he's in (screwing his mother, and dreaming of his sister) and decries the whole thing he's doing with his mother, much less how it has led him to think of his underage sister.

As I'm judging from the responses, it won't fly no matter how it's worded. I'm going to write it in anyway, but when I submit it I'm just going to cut straight to breakfast at the table. Pivotal to the progression of the brother's character as the scene is (so far as I'm concerned), I think it could still get to the end without.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Guest]

Flawed..........

Last month I submitted my first novella, "Maggie". In the beginning, I wove a tale where she was much younger than 18, but had no direct contact sexually with anyone until later on in the story. Unfortunately, even being aware of a sexual encounter occurring was a no-no by Lit standards. The story was initially rejected, which required me to go back and re-write the first part of the story. Unfortunately, it messed up the "flow" so to speak in the beginning, and made it a bit awkward for the character "Maggie" to be so innocent at 18, as to make the story somewhat hard to swallow.

I certainly suggest...if you wish to post it here, keep the age at 18, regardless of what you might think...otherwise you could end up doing what I had to do, and basically ruin the initial idea.

We might not all necessarily agree with the age thingy (within reason). But it's Lit's rules/guidelines. If we're to write here on this site. Then we all have to play by the rules whether we like em or not!

I remain,

 

[Guest]

Re: Adulthood

I'll have you know that I'm well over eighteen. Harrumph!

Is that you in your avatar?

 

[MathGirl]

Re: Re: Adulthood

Is that you in your avatar?

Of course.

 

[Guest]

Of course.

Well, you didn't have to make it sound like such an obscure question. Not everyone posts a pic of themselves in their avatar.

 

[Guest]

That's nothing...you should see what she looks like naked!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BlessedBe
Is that you in your avatar?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Of course. (Math Girl)


Just kidding........<wink>

I remain,

 

[MathGirl]

Well, you didn't have to make it sound like such an obscure question. Not everyone posts a pic of themselves in their avatar.

Dear BB,
Has my avathingie somehow displeased you?

 

[Pure]

To Chicklet the Hottie,

Originally posted by Pure

so does the rule apply to any being--even a non human one--that 'looks' (in the story) somewhat like a (human) minor?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[Chicklet said,]


i'd think not cause you've always got the stories about the girls who shave themselves to look younger and so forth

Well, here's an experiment then. A story of Maria Vuselich; she's 18 and a refugee from Serbia, been on the run with mum, father killed, also poor health, makes it to Canada. She can pass for 15, breasts barely show.

Her boyfriend, 30, likes to have her appear young, has her shave, and they play big bro and little sister; she's got a 12 yr old's clothing to wear for the scenes. Of course to her, he's really like a daddy, and that's why she indulges him. Further he has her earn them a bit of extra money by providing a service to some of his older acquaintances. One, for instance, is 40 and wants to play with a 14 yr old, daddy and young daughter, and so Maria pretends to be that.

Wanna make a bet about Literotica accepting it?

 

[SlickTony]

i just have to mention that when i wrote a story and described a "young girl" Laurel changed it to "18-yo-girl"

Same thing happened to me, when I wrote my "Survival" series about Lot and his two daughters. I didn't mention age anywhere in the stories, yet when the description came out it had been amended from "as told by Lot's younger daughter" to "as told by Lot's younger (18 YO) daughter."

 

[Guest]

Dear BB,
Has my avathingie somehow displeased you?

Never once did I say that.

 

[Guest]

Same thing happened to me, when I wrote my "Survival" series about Lot and his two daughters. I didn't mention age anywhere in the stories, yet when the description came out it had been amended from "as told by Lot's younger daughter" to "as told by Lot's younger (18 YO) daughter."

That's a shame. I think it looks stupid when someone uses parentheses in the middle of their story. It works fine on the bulletin board, but that's because it's a written form of us "talking". Most abbreviations look stupid within a story too.

Maybe in the future if Laurel is worried about a character's description she'll let the author know and give the author the chance to amend their own story?

 

[Chicklet]

snip

and they play big bro and little sister; she's got a 12 yr old's clothing to wear for the scenes. Of course to her, he's really like a daddy, and that's why she indulges him.

snip

Wanna make a bet about Literotica accepting it?

hmm...

I think that that might be pushing it. I wouldn't make any bets.

Chicklet

 

[MathGirl]

Nice

Never once did I say that.

I'm certainly relieved to hear that. The thought that I might bring anything but sunshine to someone's day is unbearable to me.

Pollyanna

 

[LGL]

IMO using reading and writing about underage characters should be viewed as a healthy release for people with socially unacceptable fantasies. While I understand literotica being cautious in regard to ever changing legal opinion on the matter it seems to me literotica, and other websites that don't allow such material are hypocritical. It is ok to fantasize about rape, torture, death, but not anything under the magic age of 18. I hope the reasoning behind such logic is based on legal concerns and not a double standard.

Please understand I am not complaining about literotica, I enjoy site and appreciate the work that must go into maintaining it. I was just giving my opinion on underage characters.

 

[TheEarl]

Contraversial stance LGL: If someone has antisocial fantasies then they should be allowed to indulge them in fantasy instead of carrying them out in reality. I agree in principle, but doubt that some people would be able to stop at fantasy, it may even egg them on.

Then again, I play the computer game Shogun cause I like the tactical battles of warfare. It doesn't make me keen on war in general, nor make me want to participate in one.

Not quite sure what my position is on that one. Any thoughts?

The Earl

 

[LGL]

Contraversial stance LGL: If someone has antisocial fantasies then they should be allowed to indulge them in fantasy instead of carrying them out in reality. I agree in principle, but doubt that some people would be able to stop at fantasy.

The same could be said for any and all sexual taboo's including many things that are allowed at literotica and other sites. Christian right wingers use the same premise to try and outlaw all forms of erotica and pornography saying it leads to men aggressivly objectifying and maybe raping women.

Then again, I play the computer game Shogun cause I like the tactical battles of warfare. It doesn't make me keen on war in general, nor make me want to participate in one.

Not quite sure what my position is on that one. Any thoughts?

The Earl

I applaud you for seeing the diachotamy and double standard that most people wouldn't allow themselves to see without becoming belligerant and angry in the name of protecting children. These type of stories cause no harm and are hurtful to nobody.

[B

Not quite sure what my position is on that one. Any thoughts?

The Earl [/B]

IMO no fantasy makes anyone more sick, less sick then another, it is the actions to make the fantasy a reality, and this could apply to sexual pedophilia fantasies, to killing your mother in law fantasies, to robbing a bank fantasies, to sexing your friends wife fantasies.

I told my friend the other day I fantasied about his wife. IMO fantasieg about his wife isnt wrong now on the otherhand if I don't tell my friend and I spend the effort to seduce, his wife that is wrong.

Does that make sense? Maybe I am the one with the double standard?

 

[TheEarl]

Normally I'm right up there with the "People make choice, not media" posse and I will always argue that, although I watch violent films, I am not a violent person. IMO, anyone who is affected by a film/book/computer game, etc to the extent that they go and commit a violent act, is mentally disturbed and would have committed that act or a similar one with or without the influence.

Paedophilia is however something of a sensitive subject. I believe that I am no less sensitive towards women because I read and write erotica, but the % of people interested in reading underage stories who are mentally unstable has got to be higher than the population norm. Paedophiles are mentally unstable IMHO and access to anything that could influence the mentally unstable has got to be avoided.

I don't want to be accused of double standards. On one hand I don't believe people act because of what they see. I reject the theory of Pavlov's man. Then again the odds do change when talkign about people who are mentally unbalanced and most people who'd look for paedophilia online are mentally unbalanced.

Do people understand what I'm saying?

The Earl

 

[LGL]

Paedophiles are mentally unstable.

The Earl

In lue of hard statistical evidence I will submit some random thoughts that dispel the myth.

Ever notice the massive law enforcement stings that net hundreds of people for violating laws. A lot of the people arrested are cops, judges, rock stars, pop stars, teachers, businessmen, parents, grandparents, and appear to be normal folks with normal well adjusted lives that lack instability you mention.

the only stories we ever hear about pedophiles are about the monsters like David Westerfield's and Mary Kay Letorneau's and others that obviously demonstrate a serious lack of mental stability you mentioned but doesn't it stand to reason that there hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of people (judging from the popularity of underage material on the web) that have pedo tendencies that would never hurt a child or condone sexual relations with one, and are just as heart broken as you or I might be from the circumstances surrounding children and tragedy. it is societies peer pressure and social stigma that creates a world where only the monsters are recognized. Pedophiles that respect the line between fantasy and reality and would never hurt a child, could never be recognized in today’s American society

 

[Pure]

Hi Earl!
How are the commas, semicolons, and periods?


you said,

Paedophilia is however something of a sensitive subject. I believe that I am no less sensitive towards women because I read and write erotica, but the % of people interested in reading underage stories who are mentally unstable has got to be higher than the population norm. Paedophiles are mentally unstable IMHO and access to anything that could influence the mentally unstable has got to be avoided.

LGL answered this pretty well, regarding ''mental instability". Some p's seem pretty controlled, except in their deviant area. Most are non violent, I believe.

I'd make a similar point to yours, but on a different topic-- which shows the problems of such efforts. _American Psycho_ made quite a splash a while back, and some bookstores took it off display. It's coldly brutal serial killer story, with lavish detail.

It's said that an Ontario serial killer named "Paul Bernardo" had this book by his bedside.

So I'm worried about cold-kill and thrill kill stuff and their effect on the 'unstable' -- meaning impulsive enough to try it out.

There's another category I don't see mentioned. How about a story of a child killer-- non sexual. But graphic detail. Further, assume a movie of this is made, like "M is for Murder" iirc. Isn't it true that most obsenity and even dreaded 'child porn' laws have NO hold over such a story or movie?

Why are people worried over fucking but not murder?

For LGL

you wrote:
It is ok to fantasize about rape, torture, death, but not anything under the magic age of 18. I hope the reasoning behind such logic is based on legal concerns and not a double standard.

On another thread re "extreme" we hashed this over, and given that COPA is shelved, a lot of us concluded that lit's legal danger from teen sex written stories was minimal. That's my opinion, anyway. It's simply lit policy, and an attempt to keep a respectable image. IMO.
(Which will only work with those who don't read many of the fetish and non consent stories!).

 

[Just-Legal]

What is a being--that is an ever non human one--that 'looks' (in the story) somewhat like a (human) minor?

Uhm, Elves?

I write / role-play as half-elves, and they age much more slowly than humans. Depending where you read they either age steadily but slowly, or can "choose" when to stop aging.

Theoretically, you could have a millenia old elf who chose to stop aging at thirteen to avenge an act that occured to her at that age (this storyline was removed from our community and several members permanently banned for persuing it, even though it was a non-explicit revenge fic).

Anyway, my point is that Elves look a HECK of a lot like humans, apart from pointy ears.

And what about the Highlander Immortals?

 

[gauchecritic]

Re: Flawed..........

Last month I submitted my first novella, "Maggie". In the beginning, I wove a tale where she was much younger than 18, but had no direct contact sexually with anyone until later on in the story. Unfortunately, even being aware of a sexual encounter occurring was a no-no by Lit standards. The story was initially rejected, which required me to go back and re-write the first part of the story. Unfortunately, it messed up the "flow" so to speak in the beginning, and made it a bit awkward for the character "Maggie" to be so innocent at 18, as to make the story somewhat hard to swallow.

I think I recall that story Sandy and if I remember correctly you also took some flak in a thread regarding some paradoxical thing about her age and how long she'd been travelling or something, coupled with her innocence etc.

I had to agree and read it again substituting as I read and it became clearer but unfortunately confusing at the same time.

As for the paedophillia vs. stability vs. fantasy thing, Everybody and that's a capital E, is unstable (mentally) about lots of things or intensely about one or two things, the trick, is balance.

Often a suicide verdict will conclude the event occurred whilst the balance of his/her mind was unstable.

Balance is dynamic, it's a happening thing, sway one way then the other, it's how our minds work, it's how we stand or walk or run. It's also how we cope with base vs. culture.

The causes of unbalancing can be many and varied and can be single or multiple and can be natural or learned or any combination thereof. There are as many arguements for these as there are against. Even the psychologists disagree with each other so what chance do we have?

My thoughts, not facts and I am

Gauche

 

[Guest]

LOL......so true

Appreciate your comments.

 

[Pure]

Just Legal said,


I write / role-play as half-elves, and they age much more slowly than humans. Depending where you read they either age steadily but slowly, or can "choose" when to stop aging.

Theoretically, you could have a millenia old elf who chose to stop aging at thirteen to avenge an act that occured to her at that age (this storyline was removed from our community and several members permanently banned for persuing it, even though it was a non-explicit revenge fic).

Anyway, my point is that Elves look a HECK of a lot like humans, apart from pointy ears.

Yes, that's the point I tried to make, using Tralfamadore; it's easy to think of non human figures that might somewhat look like kids, and be 500 yrs old and 'mature' or adult in their fantastic society.

Such a story could have lots of detail only usually found in human kiddy-sex, written stories. I'm not advocating it, but trying to show how vague and confusing, even impossible a rule against 'depictions of children' can be.

As I said, some 'porn' law has already run aground on the problem of an 18yr old who--some say--'looks' 16.

J.