VE seeking advice

[sr71plt]

LadyC, you're definitley right.. Laila did EXACTLY the right thing.. IMO, she did the only thing she could under the circumstances!

Seriously, if a writer can't send something to an editor for EDITING.. not just mere mechanics, they need to find something else to do with their time.

Its my job as a writer to create something worth reading.. its the job of an editor to GUIDE the writer into making sure it does what the writer intended it to do.. and to catch a few stupid mistakes... not to have to rewrite the whole damn thing..

Editors shouldn't have to waste their time fixing stupid spelling errors, or even have to go fix homonyms. An editor is there to do things to the story to make it better, not take care of writers who are too lazy to even use spell-check. There's a difference in helping someone who wants help.. and enabling someone to believe they're capable and they're not

Regardless of where the writer wants to post, unless they like looking like an idiot, they need to be villified here, not out in public. This IS the "private side" of Literotica.. once the story is posted, THAT is public.

The only way to make it "more private" is for the owner or an Admin to make a sub-forum ONLY for editors, set a group up ONLY for editors, and make it so only Editors, moderators and admins can access it.

Truth be told though, I think that would be a mistake. The only way a writer can become a BETTER writer is through criticism.. If criticism of another writer causes me to rethink something I'm doing, and I produce a better story because of it, then that post has done its job.

Besides, if I'm one of Laila's writers, and I feel so "unconfident" about the stories I've submitted to her that I think this post is about me, then I'd really want to sit down and take a look at what I'm doing and how I'm doing it. If she's posting for help about me, then I'm really screwing up somewhere and need to fix it!

However, this thread.. and this forum, as well as most of the other forums here are supposed to be for the BETTERMENT of Literotica.. not, as LadyC so eloquently put it, a pissing contest. If Laila and other editors faced with this dilemma are to get ANYTHING out of this thread, principles HAVE to come before personalities... otherwise, you're going to get the thread deleted and waste all the effort and good that comes from it.

Tossing out the baby with the bathwater may be fun once or twice, but it gets old having to go get more babies...

Agree with what you say about the mentoring service to the writer--and that it's great to have here. Of course it's irrelevant to the point of this thread. (and, P.S. anyone being vilified here is being vilified in public--which is part of the point. What part of the public is denied access to here?)

 

[Max ODrive]

The part of the public that reads the stories and doesn't come to the forum, thats who..

According to the stats, there are almost 900k members of this forum.. I'd be willing to bet that about 1-2% of those are active.. and maybe another 5% who lurk.. Granted, thats a lot of people..

But, its only a fraction of the people who go read the stories that get posted...

So, while it does have this "public" factor to it, its best classified as "semi-private".. because you have to make the effort to come here. Most people who come to Lit come here for the stories and could care less about the forum..

 

[sr71plt]

The part of the public that reads the stories and doesn't come to the forum, thats who..

According to the stats, there are almost 900k members of this forum.. I'd be willing to bet that about 1-2% of those are active.. and maybe another 5% who lurk.. Granted, thats a lot of people..

But, its only a fraction of the people who go read the stories that get posted...

So, while it does have this "public" factor to it, its best classified as "semi-private".. because you have to make the effort to come here. Most people who come to Lit come here for the stories and could care less about the forum..

Total public access is like getting pregnant. It isn't partial. There are private sides to Lit., I agree (the PMs). The forum is not a private side to Lit. Total access--from anywhere in the world Internet access reaches.

 

[Max ODrive]

Granted, but there's a big difference in getting called out in front of a few thousand.. versus showing your ass in front of millions.. although if you have an exhibitionistic streak, that may rock your world..

These threads will get lost in the shuffle eventually.. once a story is posted, its up there, for ALL to see...

 

[sr71plt]

Granted, but there's a big difference in getting called out in front of a few thousand.. versus showing your ass in front of millions.. although if you have an exhibitionistic streak, that may rock your world..

These threads will get lost in the shuffle eventually.. once a story is posted, its up there, for ALL to see...

Sure, this can be rationalized to death. That doesn't change what the proper way of handling it is/would have been. I see no need to spin this out. I said what someone trained/experienced in this would do--for the good both of the writer and the editor. It just wasn't done here--for whatever reason/excuse.

 

[Max ODrive]

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.. Given what we've got here, I think it was done as well as it could be. And handled with an amazing degree of sensitivity and grace..

 

[sr71plt]

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.. Given what we've got here, I think it was done as well as it could be. And handled with an amazing degree of sensitivity and grace..

OK with me. Regards.

 

[LadyCibelle]

LadyC, you're definitley right.. Laila did EXACTLY the right thing.. IMO, she did the only thing she could under the circumstances!

Seriously, if a writer can't send something to an editor for EDITING.. not just mere mechanics, they need to find something else to do with their time.

Its my job as a writer to create something worth reading.. its the job of an editor to GUIDE the writer into making sure it does what the writer intended it to do.. and to catch a few stupid mistakes... not to have to rewrite the whole damn thing..

Editors shouldn't have to waste their time fixing stupid spelling errors, or even have to go fix homonyms. An editor is there to do things to the story to make it better, not take care of writers who are too lazy to even use spell-check. There's a difference in helping someone who wants help.. and enabling someone to believe they're capable and they're not

Regardless of where the writer wants to post, unless they like looking like an idiot, they need to be villified here, not out in public. This IS the "private side" of Literotica.. once the story is posted, THAT is public.

The only way to make it "more private" is for the owner or an Admin to make a sub-forum ONLY for editors, set a group up ONLY for editors, and make it so only Editors, moderators and admins can access it.

Truth be told though, I think that would be a mistake. The only way a writer can become a BETTER writer is through criticism.. If criticism of another writer causes me to rethink something I'm doing, and I produce a better story because of it, then that post has done its job.

Besides, if I'm one of Laila's writers, and I feel so "unconfident" about the stories I've submitted to her that I think this post is about me, then I'd really want to sit down and take a look at what I'm doing and how I'm doing it. If she's posting for help about me, then I'm really screwing up somewhere and need to fix it!

However, this thread.. and this forum, as well as most of the other forums here are supposed to be for the BETTERMENT of Literotica.. not, as LadyC so eloquently put it, a pissing contest. If Laila and other editors faced with this dilemma are to get ANYTHING out of this thread, principles HAVE to come before personalities... otherwise, you're going to get the thread deleted and waste all the effort and good that comes from it.

Tossing out the baby with the bathwater may be fun once or twice, but it gets old having to go get more babies...

Max,

First time I see you around here, but I want to tell you you're welcome to come back anytime!

Thank you for understanding what we're trying to do.

Can I offer you sexual favours to be part of my gang?

 

[Guest]

Two cents.

Most new writers do not hang out in the Editor's Forum. Hell, most of them do not hang out in the Author's Forum.

The Editor's Forum should be a place that has an expectation of privacy, a place in which editors should be able to speak frankly with other editors. Even in generalities. And quite honestly, where else can the volunteer editors of this site meet to discuss issues?

As an educator myself, I'm very mindful of harsh critique delivered upon fledglings of any sort (just hang out in the Poetry Feedback forum for a couple of days - LOL). Surely if specifics aren't listed about the stories that would fulfill any privacy expectations for the writers?

If not - hmm. What are they doing following their editors around this site, anyway? (They should be editing!)

 

[LadyCibelle]

Two cents.

Most new writers do not hang out in the Editor's Forum. Hell, most of them do not hang out in the Author's Forum.

The Editor's Forum should be a place that has an expectation of privacy, a place in which editors should be able to speak frankly with other editors. Even in generalities. And quite honestly, where else can the volunteer editors of this site meet to discuss issues?

As an educator myself, I'm very mindful of harsh critique delivered upon fledglings of any sort (just hang out in the Poetry Feedback forum for a couple of days - LOL). Surely if specifics aren't listed about the stories that would fulfill any privacy expectations for the writers?

If not - hmm. What are they doing following their editors around this site, anyway? (They should be editing!)

Yup you are entirely right about the fact that most authors don't even hang out on the boards....if I had been more awake last night when 'he' complained that's the first thing I would have said.....thanks for reminding me Sarahh.

Unfortunately, we all know that no matter how things would be taken care of, 'he' wouldn't be happy because it's not 'his' way, 'his' decisions, and 'his' advice we're taking. Some people thrive on making other people's life as miserable as their own and 'he' is the perfect example of it.

 

[Tzah]

While I'm by no means a popular or proficient writer on here so far as the actual content/plot of my writing goes (the votes I see in my control panel indicate as much), I am still very much aware of grammar/spelling/usage (even if my copies I submitted were rather carelessly once-overed by myself before I submitted them- my mistake and apologies. This being said, though, I still have to wonder why one story gets rejected (and then approved, no harm no foul) on spelling errors, yet nearly ALL of the stories that I read (not on here, to differentiate between generalization and individual speculation) have really huge spelling and grammar errors. C-U-R-B, not K-E-R-B, for example. MastErbate, ClitIris, etc. The list of "common errors" I've seen (past/passed, too/to, their/your/etc.) could go on... so is it just a sort of random audit on the spelling/grammar, or ...?

/curious hijack

 

[Tzah]

LadyC- can't you make a "hidden forum" and grant only the VEs and "necessaries" access? I know on these new-fangled forums in another genre/hobby which I pursue, the "weight watching" forums had to be hidden because of random assholes attacking cookiephiles. Just a thought. I know the 'tech' part of the mod body might be able to do something.

And I feel kind of stupid for blurting out (paraphrased) "It ain't me is it?"... but really- and no offense (add any other olive-branch disclaimers one might need to indicate an absence of malice but a presence of newb curiosity)... when you see "Man, someone REEKS up in here!" you automatically kind of sniff your own pits, run a tongue over your teeth, and make sure the next time you fart, it's next to someone who deserves the blame, before quickly walking away from them.

For the record- as the username states, it's Tzah... so unless there *is* a tIzah out there, no, you haven't, LOL. If you had read it, I assure you that you wouldn't have remembered it- it's nonremarkable, and definitely not wank-worthy. When I get bored, I write long-winded, overly-descriptive, awkward, bumpy things and think "Huh. Wonder what folks think about that"... and submit them. It's "amateur" in the most derogatory sense of the definition, and I'm one of those people who hate misuse of the word "amateur", too, so that says something. What, I don't know- it IS 3 am and I'm low on cold meds. I think if people, published or not, don't have a LITTLE "could it be me?" concern, then they should- at least some of the stuff I've read. Of course I lack confidence in my writing. If I didn't, why would I be submitting it to a site like this for editing/reviewing/voting?

LOL, I *knew* I should have shied away from reading the forums, and that it'd give me a headwreck! D'oh! I have to try to keep my mouth shut, because I'm going to be giving myself a lot of oral pedicures.

Now... I'll let you guys get back to editing- ;-) Or talking about editing... but either way... good luck... I don't envy you your job.

 

[Guest]

LadyC- can't you make a "hidden forum" and grant only the VEs and "necessaries" access? I know on these new-fangled forums in another genre/hobby which I pursue, the "weight watching" forums had to be hidden because of random assholes attacking cookiephiles. Just a thought. I know the 'tech' part of the mod body might be able to do something.

And I feel kind of stupid for blurting out (paraphrased) "It ain't me is it?"... but really- and no offense (add any other olive-branch disclaimers one might need to indicate an absence of malice but a presence of newb curiosity)... when you see "Man, someone REEKS up in here!" you automatically kind of sniff your own pits, run a tongue over your teeth, and make sure the next time you fart, it's next to someone who deserves the blame, before quickly walking away from them.

For the record- as the username states, it's Tzah... so unless there *is* a tIzah out there, no, you haven't, LOL. If you had read it, I assure you that you wouldn't have remembered it- it's nonremarkable, and definitely not wank-worthy. When I get bored, I write long-winded, overly-descriptive, awkward, bumpy things and think "Huh. Wonder what folks think about that"... and submit them. It's "amateur" in the most derogatory sense of the definition, and I'm one of those people who hate misuse of the word "amateur", too, so that says something. What, I don't know- it IS 3 am and I'm low on cold meds. I think if people, published or not, don't have a LITTLE "could it be me?" concern, then they should- at least some of the stuff I've read. Of course I lack confidence in my writing. If I didn't, why would I be submitting it to a site like this for editing/reviewing/voting?

LOL, I *knew* I should have shied away from reading the forums, and that it'd give me a headwreck! D'oh! I have to try to keep my mouth shut, because I'm going to be giving myself a lot of oral pedicures.

Now... I'll let you guys get back to editing- ;-) Or talking about editing... but either way... good luck... I don't envy you your job.

Greetings, Tzah.

If you write in the same manner in which you converse, I'm certain your stories are delightful. I look forward to enjoying them.

Welcome and good luck!

 

[sr71plt]

While I'm by no means a popular or proficient writer on here so far as the actual content/plot of my writing goes (the votes I see in my control panel indicate as much), I am still very much aware of grammar/spelling/usage (even if my copies I submitted were rather carelessly once-overed by myself before I submitted them- my mistake and apologies. This being said, though, I still have to wonder why one story gets rejected (and then approved, no harm no foul) on spelling errors, yet nearly ALL of the stories that I read (not on here, to differentiate between generalization and individual speculation) have really huge spelling and grammar errors. C-U-R-B, not K-E-R-B, for example. MastErbate, ClitIris, etc. The list of "common errors" I've seen (past/passed, too/to, their/your/etc.) could go on... so is it just a sort of random audit on the spelling/grammar, or ...?

/curious hijack

Sorry for the name misspelling, Tzah. I think the unevenness in what is passed through in terms of presentation problems on a story submission is a result of uneven examination of submissions. The editor(s) post(s) (I don't know if there is more than one) an incredible number of stories every day--and have a perpetually huge backlog. I imagine that not all stories are read carefully or much at all. The ones that have gotten rejected for presentation problems are probably ones where something stood out in a quick scan and led the editor to take a closer look at the whole story and decide that it was in the author's best interests for the story to be packaged better before it is offered for reading. Others with similar problems probably are passed because the presentation issues didn't jump out at the editor in a quick scan.

 

[sr71plt]

LadyC- can't you make a "hidden forum" and grant only the VEs and "necessaries" access? I know on these new-fangled forums in another genre/hobby which I pursue, the "weight watching" forums had to be hidden because of random assholes attacking cookiephiles. Just a thought. I know the 'tech' part of the mod body might be able to do something.

I don't understand the "problem" "Lady" C claimed. All of the editorial exchanges now conducted between writers and the VEs are being done through either PMs or direct e-mailing. There's no "problem" that I see in VEs corresponding with each other privately in the same matter. I edit whole books and coordinate on editorial reviews with authors totally by e-mails and e-mail attachment exchanges (and multiple addressing even permits conference-call consultation). I think it's just a manufactured "problem" for lack of other argument.

 

[LadyCibelle]

LadyC- can't you make a "hidden forum" and grant only the VEs and "necessaries" access? I know on these new-fangled forums in another genre/hobby which I pursue, the "weight watching" forums had to be hidden because of random assholes attacking cookiephiles. Just a thought. I know the 'tech' part of the mod body might be able to do something.

And I feel kind of stupid for blurting out (paraphrased) "It ain't me is it?"... but really- and no offense (add any other olive-branch disclaimers one might need to indicate an absence of malice but a presence of newb curiosity)... when you see "Man, someone REEKS up in here!" you automatically kind of sniff your own pits, run a tongue over your teeth, and make sure the next time you fart, it's next to someone who deserves the blame, before quickly walking away from them.

For the record- as the username states, it's Tzah... so unless there *is* a tIzah out there, no, you haven't, LOL. If you had read it, I assure you that you wouldn't have remembered it- it's nonremarkable, and definitely not wank-worthy. When I get bored, I write long-winded, overly-descriptive, awkward, bumpy things and think "Huh. Wonder what folks think about that"... and submit them. It's "amateur" in the most derogatory sense of the definition, and I'm one of those people who hate misuse of the word "amateur", too, so that says something. What, I don't know- it IS 3 am and I'm low on cold meds. I think if people, published or not, don't have a LITTLE "could it be me?" concern, then they should- at least some of the stuff I've read. Of course I lack confidence in my writing. If I didn't, why would I be submitting it to a site like this for editing/reviewing/voting?

LOL, I *knew* I should have shied away from reading the forums, and that it'd give me a headwreck! D'oh! I have to try to keep my mouth shut, because I'm going to be giving myself a lot of oral pedicures.

Now... I'll let you guys get back to editing- ;-) Or talking about editing... but either way... good luck... I don't envy you your job.

Hi and welcome to the EF

Unfortunately, no, I don't have the power to make a 'hidden' thread just for the editors. There is only ONE thread hidden from anyone's view and it's the Mod's queue. Only Mods see it and only Mod can add to it.....it's kind of our garbage can where we put Spam etc.... and after a while it gets all cleaned/deleted by Manu, I guess.

The only person who could create such a thread would be Manu or Laurel but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

 

[CopyCarver]

I still have to wonder why one story gets rejected (and then approved, no harm no foul) on spelling errors, yet nearly ALL of the stories that I read (not on here, to differentiate between generalization and individual speculation) have really huge spelling and grammar errors. C-U-R-B, not K-E-R-B, for example. MastErbate, ClitIris, etc. The list of "common errors" I've seen (past/passed, too/to, their/your/etc.) could go on... so is it just a sort of random audit on the spelling/grammar, or ...? /curious hijack

This is Lit's small intramural version of Schrödinger's cat

 

[LadyCibelle]

I don't understand the "problem" "Lady" C claimed. All of the editorial exchanges now conducted between writers and the VEs are being done through either PMs or direct e-mailing. There's no "problem" that I see in VEs corresponding with each other privately in the same matter. I edit whole books and coordinate on editorial reviews with authors totally by e-mails and e-mail attachment exchanges (and multiple addressing even permits conference-call consultation). I think it's just a manufactured "problem" for lack of other argument.

Yeah...so if we ALL talked by PMs, email or IM....what would be the reason for this forum, then? Answer me that 'oh great one'!

 

[sr71plt]

Yeah...so if we ALL talked by PMs, email or IM....what would be the reason for this forum, then? Answer me that 'oh great one'!

Why to talk about general topics that are generally helpful to the VEs and the writers interested in general site-specific editing points. There have been some good ones here--like the one on titles for series. We were having a good discussion there, but some harpie kept dropping in and attacking a poster with no reference to the topic being discussed. But at least it didn't keep the discussants from completing a good, relevant discussion.

When you talk close to specifics--and also show that you don't know the basics of the editing world by wondering how to spell words that the editing world has given editors who know the craft a key to deciding or asking how you should handle a very basic situation after you've hung your shingle out and already gathered clients--on this board, you only make those looking for competent help (naturally) leery of asking for it here.

And there's a lot of help volunteer writer mentors can provide to newer Lit. writers and wanna be Lit. writers here.

You won't like my response, of course, but you asked for my opinion. If you hadn't asked, I would not have posted it.

If you want to break this chain of vendetta you have going, you can just read this posting and move on to do whatever you want. If not, you will post one of your ugly postings that calls me names and uses vitrol and attempts to inflame that I've never used on this forum myself. Or maybe you'll just erase my posting as not serving your agenda while leaving your vitrol up. You've done that too.

Nice day. I think I'll work out in the pavilion.

 

[LadyCibelle]

Why to talk about general topics that are generally helpful to the VEs and the writers interested in general site-specific editing points. There have been some good ones here--like the one on titles for series. We were having a good discussion there, but some harpie kept dropping in and attacking a poster with no reference to the topic being discussed. But at least it didn't keep the discussants from completing a good, relevant discussion.

When you talk close to specifics--and also show that you don't know the basics of the editing world by wondering how to spell words that the editing world has given editors who know the craft a key to deciding or asking how you should handle a very basic situation after you've hung your shingle out and already gathered clients--on this board, you only make those looking for competent help (naturally) leery of asking for it here.

And there's a lot of help volunteer writer mentors can provide to newer Lit. writers and wanna be Lit. writers here.

You won't like my response, of course, but you asked for my opinion. If you hadn't asked, I would not have posted it.

If you want to break this chain of vendetta you have going, you can just read this posting and move on to do whatever you want. If not, you will post one of your ugly postings that calls me names and uses vitrol and attempts to inflame that I've never used on this forum myself. Or maybe you'll just erase my posting as not serving your agenda while leaving your vitrol up. You've done that too.

Nice day. I think I'll work out in the pavilion.

And who's to decide what is relevant or not to the forum? You? Of course, if we obeyed you everything would be rosy but because most people don't, you piss and moan like a 4 year old.

Grow up FFS, the world doesn't revolve around you!

And another thing, we had meaningful, helpful and fun conversation before you arrived on the scene. Maybe it's time you looked at yourself in a mirror and realized that the shit only started since you're here.

 

[sr71plt]

And who's to decide what is relevant or not to the forum? You? Of course, if we obeyed you everything would be rosy but because most people don't, you piss and moan like a 4 year old.

Grow up FFS, the world doesn't revolve around you!

Of course not me. This is but another one of your false trails. When I posted on a problem I perceived with this thread, it was with the thought that something "not good" was happening--not good for the original poster, not good for the original poster's client whose work was being referenced, not good for any of the original poster's clients that this wasn't about, not good for people reading here who were contemplating needing help, not good for the VE program, not good as an indicator of the preparation VEs have before opening for business, not good as an indicator of the moderator's expertise and insight into the business, and not good for the Web site. I saw it immediately, as any professional editor would, and I said nothing. I said nothing right away either after Tzah posted with an obvious illustration of several aspects of the "not good thing." Eventually--after it was obvious the moderator was spending all of her time taunting me rather than paying any attention to the elephant in the corner--I posted--politely and civily.

Again, I only am responding because you continue to taunt me to.

The motto of editing: "First do no harm."

I would be happy to take this off the board and discuss this with you via PM or e-mail, as another poster has suggested on another thread, assuming that doesn't upset your agenda (which, of course, it does). You could also, as I said in my last posting just suspend your taunts and baiting and do whatever you please. Or you can continue with your bad posting behavior.

Let's see, three curtains to choose from. Which one will it be? Oh, I know, I know . . . (raising hand).

 

[LadyCibelle]

DELETED because it was childish.

 

[Tzah]

First do no harm... is that like "And harm ye none, edit how thou wilt"?

 

[sr71plt]

First do no harm... is that like "And harm ye none, edit how thou wilt"?

Ummm . . . maybe . . . and maybe n- . . . Could you hum a few bars?

But, now that you mention it, maybe there should be a comma after "first." Oh Lordie.

 

[Noctame]

I say, Cuss him/her out and set them straight.