What a mess we are

[softcaress69]

Interesting discussion

This is an interesting discussion. I am very new to this board and I was hoping to find perhaps similar interests, companionship, friendships and if things went well long lasting relationships. I am the “nerd” and I am blind and not able to get out to meet people. I am also not bad looking, so I have been told. I am also well educated. However, because of societal’s beliefs that people with disabilities are stupid discrimination is alive, well, and living in this country. These beliefs also cross over to women. It would seem that women do not want to go out with someone who is kind and considerate of his or her feelings and has a disability. I have been married and my wife left me for another woman. I again was dumped after six years with a GF; she said she did not understand why I was so understanding and caring. She said she wanted to be a truck driver because she understands that type of abusive mentality. She was married to a very abusive person and it seems that she wanted that type of person rather than someone considerate of her feelings. Therefore, do I understand why people do what they do! Not at all.
Yes, we understand that men do stupid things because we are driven by testosterone. We hope we can find women who enjoy, not only and is not limited to sex as we are. But that seems to be diffacult to find.
When I first came on this board, I posted a sincere post but I for the most part did not receive any reply. I did receive one but to ask me how I can read what others have written and how I can even get to this sight if I am blind. A good question but not responding to my post. As for the other posts that I placed, I did not receive one response. But it would seem that the cruder the men are the more women respond to them. But the more sincere men are the less responses men get.
So, what do women really want in a man? If they were more responsive sexually, men would not need to go outside the marriage to satisfy themselves sexually.

 

[Paradox]

Wow, is that ever a loaded question. Are women trained to deceive--I don't think so. At least not any more than men. To be fair, I don't think women set out to deceive men. Unfortunately, I think we all tend to deceive ourselves, though.

Many years ago, I heard the statement that women will trade sex for love and men will trade love for sex. In other words, to get what we really want, we are willing to give up something else. It isn't quite true to say that all women want love over sex any more than all men want sex over love, but it is generally true, I suppose.

Are men being dishonest when they let a woman think they love her when what they really want to do is get in her pants? Sure. But, I think most men would tell you they really do love the woman. Maybe not in the same way a woman experiences love for a man, but who knows. It is pretty hard to quantify feelings.

Is a woman being dishonest when she says she is interested in no-strings sex then falls in love with the guy? Sure, but with whom is she being dishonest? Most of all, herself, I would say.

I think we need to ask the women. Chele has weighed in a bit, but I'll bet she has more to say. How many women feel a little discomfort at the idea of no-strings sex? Do you feel it is expected of you?

This could be a great topic. Thanks for bringing it up, Rashid.

 

[rashid]

fascinating huh?

It ties in to another thread I'm following "for women only" exploring bisexuality among women. The tone of those posts tells me that women ARE interested in no strings sex but they prefer to do that among themselves so as to protect their primary relationship with husband or boyfriend. When they venture outside the marital arena with another man the underlying tone is that they're exploring the possibility of switching partners permanently if they can do that without losing social or economic status. Women with abusive husbands don't play - they suffer or get out.
My experience with men on the other hand would suggest the extra marital sex is either recreational or theraputic (simple, meaningless, but enjoyable sex or a confused and abused guy looking for a kind word and a loving hand) but as an addition to, not a replacement for the primary relationship ( much like a woman seeking another woman for fun and friendship) The hangup as I see it is that heterosexual men cannot get this kind of satisfaction from another man while a woman can usually play with other ladies to her hearts content.

No one said life was fair. It's the price we pay for being gifted with the ability to pee standing up ;-)

to Softcaress: I think it's important to recognize that there is a difference between agressive and assertive. I don't think the "average" woman wants a harshly aggressive man any more than she wants a complete pushover. In between those things is one who stands up for himself, sticks to his guns when he needs to, tells the truth, defends his family, maintains his integrity etc. Basically they want the same qualities we look for in each other as men and for that matter what a real man looks for in a woman. Someone you can count on when the kagada hits the fan.

 

[Phalanx]

The thread...

Just wanted to add that this may be the best thread I have read in a long time! Let's hear it for serious discussion <applause>

J

 

[SexyChele]

Wow! You all have certainly been busy! I'm finding it very interesting that we are having more of a discussion, and while men seem to be jumping in with little hesitation, only one or two women have dared to take the plunge. Interesting.

Am I representative to my sex? I'd lie if I said I hadn't thought about it, but I haven't really drilled down deep with it. I would think that most women feel as I do, but may not state it outright. In that way, yes, I do feel representative of my sex. I also try ("try" being the operative word, here) to be as honest as I can. If I'm looking for a relationship, I'll let the guy know that. If I'm not, he will know that as well. And when I say "yes", I mean yes. Likewise, when I say "no", I mean no. That is NOT representative of my sex, unfortunately.

It's not really deceit that we are speaking of here. It's conditioning. Deceit implies a knowing, preconceived notion to withhold or lie. Most women don't do that. They pick up from the media, their friends, and men/boys what behaviors "work" and what doesn't.

Example: a young teenage girl goes to her first dance. She dresses in clothes that are not as revealing as her friends, and she winds up sitting by herself, not being asked to dance. The next dance she goes to, she wears clothing a little more revealing and the boys pay attention to her. She didn't mean deceit, yet she has now been conditioned to a certain action to get attention.

Likewise a boy: Wants sex, approaches a girl with the idea and is lucky he doesn't slapped or punched in the balls. The next girl he says what he thinks (or his buddies have told him) the girl wants to hear - he loves her, he cares for, etc. She gives in to his demand for sex and, again, a conditioned response is learned.

Both might be deceit, but I don't think it is meant that way. It's how we are conditioned to respond to the opposite sex, and how we think they wish to respond to us. Unfortunately, as we age, we don't seem to overcome this conditioning.

What is difficult is breaking that conditioning and learning to live differently. Not easy, and it's much simpler to "go back" to what seems to work.

For me personally, I have entered into "no strings sex" relationships. There was only one that was "sucessful" - if there is such an idea. And that was after a horrendous break-up with a boyfrend who I had been seeing for more than 5 years. I needed reassurance that I was still a desirable woman. Entering into a relationship where there "no strings" was exactly what I needed at that time.

Other times, when I've tried to do the same thing, one of 2 things would happen. Either a.) I ended up falling for the guy or b.) he ended up falling for me. Either situation is bad....especially if there are other people involved such as spouses.

A "no strings" sexual relationship may sound wonderful to most men, and even some women, but it requires a fine balance. And one in which the emotions can NEVER be involved. Unless you are talking of a one night stand situation, that is a very difficult balance to keep. Even people who have extra-marital affairs with the same people outside of their marriages over the course of a long period of time, usually develop some sort of emotional bond. It's difficult not to share some form of intimacy emotionally when you are involved with some one physically. And that is not "just for women only". Men find themselves in the same situation as well.

I will comment on the woman to woman sex, but it must wait for another time..

SoftCaress? You sound like the sort of man that a woman would be crazy to let go. But, yes, I know that anyone in Western society with any sort of disability is automatically put into a "hands off" category. And that is truly sad, as most people with disabilities have much to offer. I realize this as I have a slight hearing loss in one ear. I've actually had men stop calling when they discovered this. (or maybe I'm just overly sensitive to it)

 

[SwtGoldenCunt]

I understand your plight. My husband and I both have posted ads on the web. He had very few if any replies where I got several. I guess it's a safty thing we women look at. It seems safer for us to weed thru responses to our ads than answer ads our selves. I have answered ads and have had good luck with thoes that I have. We have more control of the situation it seems. I know that this probably doesn't make a bit of sense and I'm sure someone will disagree with me on it but I at least feel safer this way. Men are seeking sex and women are too BUT we are looking for a more romantic side to it as well I think. The ads I have answered or put in are for pure sex but I am also discernment as to who I choose. Men don't seem as discernment. I may be wrong, but thats the way I see it and I am being honest here.

 

[on_the_verge]

I understand your plight. My husband and I both have posted ads on the web. He had very few if any replies where I got several. I guess it's a safty thing we women look at. It seems safer for us to weed thru responses to our ads than answer ads our selves. I have answered ads and have had good luck with thoes that I have. We have more control of the situation it seems. I know that this probably doesn't make a bit of sense and I'm sure someone will disagree with me on it but I at least feel safer this way. Men are seeking sex and women are too BUT we are looking for a more romantic side to it as well I think. The ads I have answered or put in are for pure sex but I am also discernment as to who I choose. Men don't seem as discernment. I may be wrong, but thats the way I see it and I am being honest here.

We have to understand that the dogma and paradoxes of online romanticism is somewhat valid and also subject to fallacy. As much as we may desire this gratification that sex can provide, we lose the fact that we are on a medium of devices that are mechanical and emotional, emotional in the sense we want to feel and be thought of, but the problem lies in how the approach is given and taken. It's basically a pot luck draw in a sense and there are so many ads and so much compatability within us and reaching out towards others.

I have had many online experiences and sharings with many women and they have fallen for my writings, but I do know that many have not. It's not about the quality, they are reflective and available, but we must understand there is always going to be this battle between the sexes. I have met a few women from online and shared a great deal, but in the same token, I have not with many others. I do search and desire the few I can touch and be touched by, but I do know that it's not about culling so many and just finding the few who can actually be touched across this medium.

I can be very raw and also much of a romantic, I do have a love for fiends and I have found an attraction to them, but it is respect and an agreement that must follow suit as well. I will not ever solely lie as that would destroy my purpose and the loss of a connection through deceit is far worse than anything I could imagine. I have been there and learned from it. All I can provide is my heart and soul to another who is willing to accept it.





This is why I chose to write to only a few and share within the same breath. I adore and welcome the women I have met, but it has come to more than a fleeting cyber to an actual building of trust and friendship. After that, on this medium, a love can be fostered and a sharing of sexes can actually assimulate beyond a calling of sexual devices, but a desire to share the soul as well...

(unedited and uncut)

 

[Guest]

Boy did I miss a great thread!

Rashid,

Let me begin by saying that if I were not already wed to my soul-mate I'd be doing my best to make your acquaintance. Men like you, and other posters to this thread, are rare. It will take a very special woman to make you happy. But when you find her *throws glitter into the air* its Magic!

Hubby and I have spent hours discussing the tactics of the Battle of the Sexes. We think that the basic problem between the sexes is that few know thier own gender. If men were men (making a generalization here...) and women were women (...and here...) we'd all be better off. *steps beneath protective umbrella to avoid stones that are sure to come* I realize that it is not politically correct to feel that modern women are sometimes (...and here...) a little too male, but thats my personal opinion, and I'll defend that to anyone. However, if men were allowed to be the hunter/protector and women the gatherer/nurterer that nature seems to have intended the world might be a better place.

As SexyChele said,

"It's not really deceit that we are speaking of here. It's conditioning. Deceit implies a knowing, preconceived notion to withhold or lie. Most women don't do that. They pick up from the media, their friends, and men/boys what behaviors "work" and what doesn't. "

Humans are adaptive creatures, we use the tools at hand to survive, and to advance our kind. So we mate or practice mating and hopefully we mate well. But, that isn't the same as sex, which I think of as playful and done for the sheer joy of it, and lovemaking, which is romantic or hot, always joyful and done with your husband, wife, life-partner or whatever your term.

Next point: You can meet nice people on the net, and through personals. You can also meet nice people in the grocery store line, while taking a class, at your best friends wedding or at a bar. It could happen. Does it? Sometimes. I wouldn't bet the farm, or my future on it though.

Final point: I know that this post is somewhat disjointed, but your collective thoughts made me think and I wanted to respond to several ideas.

Think of it as the kind of quick conversation you get with good friends. Everyone sitting around a pool, dinner is finished, coffee, brandy and dessert await and the sun is just setting in a final blaze of glory.

 

[Lady_Kit]

Blasted Login!!!

The post from Unregistered at 12:36 was submitted by yours truly. Next time I log in first like a good girl, I promise!

The embarassed....

 

[rashid]

Good morning

Just came back from a bit more reading elsewhere in this section. Am I allowed to say this is terribly fucked up?
To paraphrase "I have a miserable relationship, devoid of physical contact and I feel guilty for seeking pleasure elsewhere, but am still driven to post here looking for pretend sex and emotional healing."

ARRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHH - my brain hurts. This is the norm. Our ability to sustain a monogamous relationship seems to range from severely handicapped to nonexistant and STILL we persist on looking outside ourselves for solutions.

One of my teachers is famous for the quote" Insanity is doing more of the same harder and expecting different results"

If you are in a dead zone, waiting for your partner to somehow come to life and rekindle your love, you will most likely wait a good long time. Take charge!!! Light a candle (men this is for you as well) play a little music, TAKE A BATH, smell nice, put some flowers on the table. Stop waiting for it and make a first move. God - take a massage class. Spend more than two minutes on the experience. If you don't like your partner or yourself enough anymore to do at least this much, it's time to have a deep, meaningful conversation with the mirror.

Sex is fun (or at least it should be) but sex outside of your primary relationship will not solve the problems within that relationship. Like an alcoholic waking up the morning after, those problems will still be looking you straight in the face. Yes, monogamy can be boring but infidelity is not a cure for a bad relationship.

Sex outside the primary relationship (in my less than humble opinion) needs mutual consent within the primary relationship to make it a fun, joyful experience. Again, this may explain why men are ok with their wives having sex with other women. It's safe. "Have all the fun you want hon..... what time are we going to the Johnsons for dinner? - remember to tell me all about it later ok?" Not exactly the same thing is it?

As a man, and speaking strictly for myself, I'm in love with lust. Sex with a stranger is a total turn on for me. Intense, exploratory, passionate, risky if performed in semi-public places, heart pounding, pulse racing fun. That's what trips my trigger. But that's not the same as making love with my partner. Trying to maintain two actual relationships at the same time is emotional suicide. Quick encounters of the erotic kind are stimulating, guilt free fun.

I believe this is the basis of all the angst over the subject of no strings sex. You can't have no strings sex with the same person more than once!!!!!!!
After that, it (like Chele and others have observed) becomes a relationship. And that, dear hearts, is a problem. Relationships are like solid matter. No two can exist in the same space at the same time. Attempting to refute that theory in physics results in atomic bombs. Ditto for your marriage.

If you want to play, then by all means play - God knows it's fun, but please, people - be clear about your motives. Denial is NOT a river in Egypt.
If I had to guess, I'd say that almost all the posts in all the forums on the entire planet are a result of individuals refusing to examine what's really in their hearts, tell the truth about what they see and then take action to change whatever it is about themselves that needs changing.

And Kit?????? You sound yummy too You and your hubby are (again IMHO) totally correct to say things might be better without all the gender bending. Let men be men and women be women. Denying our basic nature usually only works for a brief instant before reverting to nature like water seeking its own level.

As for changing our partners behavior so we can be happy let me ask you this. Has anyone here ever succeeded in actually forcing their partner to actually CHANGE a behavior without that persons total cooperation? If so I want to hear about it from BOTH of you.

For too many people, happiness depends on someone ELSE changing.
If you wait for that you'll surely live a long and unhappy life. Feel free to throw rocks, yell at me or toss in your nickle. Just don't ever pretend I'm not here
Smooches
T.

 

[Guest]

Feh.

Since I have been part of the Women only! discussion, I can say it is false to presume that posters are interested in no strings sex. It *was* a forum to discuss why some bisexual women find it hard to open up about their sexuality. Men drifted in with the usual generalizations and questions about why bisexuals prefer women, etc.
Rashid, I applaud your honesty and candor. I do not blame your concern but, unfortunately, it not deception that's the problem. As a woman, who married a man she met online, I would say approach is the problem. While a woman may feel at ease with her sexuality, this does not mean she will open her legs to any fool online. Generally, some sort of connection is needed. I need to feel safe.
I have no problem with posting on these boards about sex. I am quite blunt. I am aroused while reading some stories. I masturbate. I am sexual.
BUT, I am turned off by most replies in the personals section. I will spend time reading through each thread, but few will capture my attention long enough to provoke real thought.

I hope you find your treasure.

 

[Crooky]

Bravo SexyChele...

SexyChele wrote:
"A "no strings" sexual relationship may sound wonderful to most men, and even some women, but it requires a fine balance. And one in which the emotions can NEVER be involved. Unless you are talking of a one night stand situation, that is a very difficult balance to keep. Even people who have extra-marital affairs with the same people outside of their marriages over the course of a long period of time, usually develop some sort of emotional bond. It's difficult not to share some form of intimacy emotionally when you are involved with some one physically. And that is not "just for women only". Men find themselves in the same situation as well."


Bravo, SC.

In my opinion, you have hit the nail on the head. That's where the difficulties emerge. I love my girlfriend with all my heart and I don't honestly know if I am capable of cheating on her. That said, I have been in situations in the past where that hasn't been a problem.

Emotion is always a factor. This is true. I think this is why the phenomenon that Rashid noted at the beginning of this thread is happening. Men aren't as in tune with our emotions as women are. We think about a lovely woman that we'd like to boff and that's as far as it skips across our consciouness. However, when we actually get to the No-tell Motel and we're engaging in the necessary pillow-talk, we find out that this person is interesting and thoughtful and quite nice.

This complicates things. "Ugh ugh. Jane nice."

So, at an intellectual level, we know one of two things is 99% likely to happen:

1. She's going to fall for you.
2. You're going to fall for her.

Why do men have affairs then when plain old porn and masturbation would relieve the itch often enough? It's an emotional thing. I doubt if it's the same emotional thing that women get from extra-marital affairs but it's human contact that we crave.

When I cheated on my ex with our neighbour (who was also engaged), I did it because I needed some positive human contact. My ex was a psycho who emotionally controlled me and for me, it was an act of rebellion and no, it wasn't just sex even if that's what I told myself. We hung out like a boyfriend and girlfriend. We just didn't hold hands and kiss in public like a normal couple does.

Later, after I ended both relationships, the neighbour called me in tears two weeks later telling me that she was in love with me and her fiancee. I had to admit, I was in love with her too. We'd had sex dozens of times but it was the quality time that we spent together that did it for me.

I don't buy into the whole "men give love to get sex and women give sex to get love theory". People who honestly do that are kidding themselves.

Love is to Sex as the Sun is to a Plant.

Sex feeds love, it can create love. Conversely, without love, the sex is just... a burning ball of gas. (I know, terrible analogy that brings to mind Taco Bell but...)

You know what I mean. Sex needs love to work (even a little) and love needs sex.

Take India for example. My fiancee's parents didn't meet until their wedding night. Mind you, their relationship isn't perfect but they are in love. They were thrown together and consumated their relationship before they even really had a chance to talk and then the relationship building started. They didn't know each other from Jack but they made it work.

Earth+Water+Fire=Life.

If the elements are there, it's going to happen.

So, I am going to wind up this long-winded posting by saying this:

Guys, be a gentleman and the world will open up to you. Ladies, let men be gentlemen and forget the ones who don't put in the effort - if you're not worth putting in the effort, they're not worth your time.

Ciao, bellas!

 

[SexyChele]

Rashid: HEAR, HEAR!!! I agree with everything you've stated. Nope, no rocks coming from this quarter. I do wish I had a dollar for every time I've met a man in a bar who said he was married and his wife was no longer interested in him. My response? Well, what had HE done for HER recently? When was the last time he sent her flowers - and it WASN'T her birthday or anniversary? When was the last time he took the kids for a Saturday, treated her to a day at a spa, dropped the kids off at their grandparents, and treated her like the queen she should be treated as?

Yup, that's right - most men will look at you with those glazed over eyes. "Well, uh, I was just looking to get laid." Yeah, right, you can't be considerate to your wife, but you expect ME to give you a shot? Later -

But I was thinking last night. Yes, folks I do do that - scary, huh? I'd like to find out what the men here mean EXACTLY by "no strings sex" as opposed to what women think it means? For me, personally, it would mean that the man is expecting to meet a woman on a somewhat continuous basis to have sex without commitment. For me, this is just impossible. (which is why I don't respond to such ads) Anyone care to shed light on that for me? Maybe I'm wrong...

SwtGoldenCunt - Man, did you nail it! Security is a big thing for a woman. If I were inclined to be with a couple, I would respond much more quickly to the female half of the partnership than the male. There would also be the idea that maybe the guy wasn't being all that truthful. Sorry, that conditioning thing again - men will say what they think women want to hear to get sex...

Lady_Kit: I agree as well. Women need to be women. Men need to men. That doesn't mean, for the less initiated, that women are doormats and men are neanderthals. We are just wired differently in many ways. Embrace the differences and go on.

 

[rashid]

no strings

Means no strings. Period. Once and once only. Never again with that one. Anything else = a relationship = emotional involvment = your worst nightmare. The source of all our angst.

Kudos to all of you - If the world could read this thread and actually use the thoughts and understanding you all have put out, it would be a better place. We're none of us perfect but God knows an unexamined life is not worth living.

"we have met the enemy and he is us"

 

[softcaress69]

As a man, I very much enjoy sex. However, what is far more important is the emotional release that I feel to be with someone to give myself completely to them and understand that they have opened themselves to me means more to me than just sexual gratification. It is an emotional release that men in this society don’t have the chance to express in other ways. Men are not supposed to show emotion because social norms dictate that men hold in emotion and women can freely show emotion. But having such an intimate connection with a woman allows this release of emotions.

It is impossible to be with someone intimately and not develop emotional bonds. Because there usually is something about that person that you like not just a hole in the bed. But some emotional connection developed between both parties. If you share yourself sexually to someone, there is an emotional connection if you care to admit it.

There is nothing wrong with men being romantic. I still open car doors and enjoy candle lit dinners and walks holding hands. It is being connected to someone emotionally and understanding their feelings and they yours.

 

[Guest]

a lil more than 2 cents...

I have just finished reading MOST of this thread [boy was there a lot!] so much that I already forgot a lot of what I wanted to post! LOL

Well first of all I agree a lot with what SC said, although def not all of it. I wouldn't post an ad looking for the light of my life but I feel the need to say that a friend of mine found his soon to be wife through personal ads, he bought a pc for this very reason! Why? because he was 31yrs old, was not into the club scene, doesn't drink...so the bars were out of the question...so where does a nice guy, who's down to earth and doesn't do drugs or drink, who also has a lot to offer, but doesn't dancs meet someone to date nevermind fall in love with and have a family?! It took him over a year, but he did it!...GO HIM!!!

Off the top of my head, someone quoted a friend saying women are fake and the like [I don't remember exact words, but that's close enough for you to get my jist] I'm almsot sorry to inform everyone [men] that no, not all women are fakes...not all women wear make-up and not all women 'dress the part' to aquire a husband [or just to attract the opposite sex] *I* am one of those women...grew up a tom-boy...never really liked the Barbie doll thing...to this day [and I am 29yrs old] I do not wear make-up [cept for the obvious...weddings and such] I do not dress in short skirts and high heels...no...SO NOT ME! I dress in jeans and a t or sweat shirt...work boots and more often than not, a pony tale!

Nowhere in this discussion have I seen anything about women of my nature...down to earth, open, honest, etc etc I'm not a butchy type of gal, I just don't do the 'dress up to impress' thing and I certainly get my fair share of looks from the opposite sex...there is something to say for the 'rough' type of woman, the funny thing is that I say this from an outside view...I have been married for almost 8 years, not all happy, as we've had our glitches, but all in all we're on the money. It's because of this that when I 'talk' to people on-line I could honestly give a shit 1. how my typing looks, typos, conscience mispellings [such as typing 'n' instead of 'and'] on the reverse I could care less how a guy types...if a man has terrible handwriting does it mean he's a bad doctor?
Think about it! 2. I could care less what peole think of me...if they will like me, if they won't, if they're interested or not as well, I am me n that is who you're talking to when you're talking to me [hmmm sounds a lil confusing] anyway I have found that so many of the people [men] I have met online think that just because I am the way I am [tell it as I see it, usually in a blunt typa way] become attracted to me, it has ended a few 'friendships' but all in all I take it as a compliment, then again I may be the only woman in the world that will openly admit that I think women suck! That's not to say that men don't, but OMG how many times I have found myself saying or doing something so incredbily moronic that I have to take a step back n just laff UH HUMM scuse me laugh


I have made such a conscious effort to type correctly that I have now forgotten all of which I wanted to say UGHTH!!!

Rashid, I commend you...for a lot of what you've said but more so that you put it in print!

As for the real reply to posts thing that was mentioned, I would rather the 2-3 honest ones rather than the 100's of BS ones, I have posted ads online [for a bi encounter] and to be honest I got more 'real replies' to me being me than I did with the one I spell checked everything and made it sound 'oh so nice'

Gentlemanly...yes def, that's a must...they say nice guys finish last, but who ever said that being a gentlemen meant letting yourself get shit on? THE best relationship, IMHO, is that where I know I am respected, in all ways, of course I don't consider it as disrespecting me to tell me to go fuck myself when I'm being a total asshole!!! But that is right up there with [me] admitting I think women suck, I have seen one to many friends break up with their sig other as a result of this...a fight, being cursed out or *sappy woman voice* being yelled at that way, when it was so obvious to everyone around them that they truly loved each other...I have to say that THE best sex is after an all out brawl and no I don't mean kicking the hell outta each other, physically...the words spoken in the sweetest tones can do more damage than anything yelled, when spoken by someone you love.

As far as monogamy goes, I don't see it as healthy to be with more than one person, although I can see the hotness in being with a total stranger then never seeing them again...ah yes the pendulum that is me...swinging back n forth yet again besides all the diseases out there there is something to say for having the one person that knows your body as well [if not better] then you do, to try new things with, experiment in new places, of course both parties would have to be open minded and willing to try these new things, then again *swing swing* if there is no emotional bond with that person, well what the hell are doing in bed with them anyway?! Hmm someone stated something about that as well...and I agree, there is always always always an emotional bond of some kind when a couple [or more] are in bed!

And no women are not 'taught' to act the way they do...it's more of a direct reaction from the way men [most men] treat women, one of the funniest things that happened to me was being out with a bunch of girlfriends...all of which were 'all dolled up' to meet Mr. Right...cept me! [I wasn't married yet, but was dating my 'future husband'] to make a long but funny story short...who was approached the most out of the group? I WAS! The only non-single one in the bunch! I will never understand why women get all gussied up when they go out, most of the time they look SO good most men are intimidated to even go talk to them! Maybe this is why I was approached, I dunno. They got the looks n I got talked to...makes me wonder what they were striving for when they were applying all that goop on their faces! LOL

I will never understand men, and I know with all that I am that I will never understand women!!! [OMG n I AM ONE! hehe] So I dare not try@either

I have rambled enuff...prolly to much even LOL
hell some of you prolly don't even think I have a 'right' to reply here [since I'm married] but I did so, oh well...deal
If you made it this far, well thanks
reply as you may, I'm not easily offended
Ta~Ta!

 

[Paradox]

Responding to Chele's question, I'm not sure I would really enjoy a "no-strings" experience. Maybe that sounds weird for a guy to say, but anticipation is a lot of the excitement. How can you anticipate about someone you don't know? Besides, why not just hire a hooker?

On the other hand, there is something to be said for a more purely sexual relationship. Not one where you aren't interested in anything else about the person, but a relationship where sexual gratification for both parties is the main focus. The key, I think, is that both parties benefit. And, nothing says you can't have affection and maybe even love for each other.

 

[rashid]

softcarress

You're right. Of course a sexual encounter demands emotional involvement as does any human contact. Eye contact accross the room, a touch of a strangers arm on a bus, the waitresses voice, your buddy handing you a two by twice (for the uninitiated - that's a piece of wood ) all include an exchange of energy. The ancient Hawaiians referred to these connections as AKA. The more prolonged the contact (good or evil) the stronger the bond. They made a practice of mentally severing all these bonds on a regular basis and then reconnecting in their minds with the ones they chose to be connected to. The others were (and still are for those who care to practice Huna) set adrift in various ways so as to leave the individual clean and free of negative energy.

In a similar way we strengthen the bonds with those we love. The touch of a lovers hand, a kiss, a flower on the table, an uncharacteristic interchange of roles, (like doing the dishes or mopping the floor guys) without being asked, a picnic for just the two of you, twenty minutes spent just holding one of your kids and talking, an impromptu neck rub for your buddy after a hard days work. Aware - paying attention to the other - getting off of auto pilot and actually thinking consciously about another persons needs - not exactly every day behavior but really not so hard to do. Do it often and it becomes a habit. Strengthen that habit and you become a lover. Not just of an individual but a lover of life. The opposite is also true. Negative action destroys the joy while increasing the strength of the connection. This is why people stay in abusive relationships.

Living on autopilot is to deny our humanity - to live like the animals we are supposed to have dominion over. Our greatest human challenge is to remain awake - to live now - learning from the past and planning for the future but always now, here, in this precious moment we call the present because it is a gift from God that we have only to reach out and take. To be truely human.

I sense you are a gentle soul but this is only one dimension of a man. To be true to your nature demands that you be strong, powerful, dependable, trustworthy, wise, thoughtful, decisive, reliable, honest and courageous as if you were sitting as a knight at the round table in Camelot That you be counted. This is not a myth about ancient men who no longer exist. It's a truth about the men who are today on a different battlefield. You are being tested - every day. Your integrity will be challenged. Keep your word. Your wisedom will be challenged. Be prepared to examine yourself for errors in judgement. What lies outside the box of being right is not the pain of being wrong but rather the joy of possibility. A wise warrior never makes the same mistake twice. Our challenge is to be a gentle warrior.

These things a woman will respect. She needs to know you can be trusted to speak the truth. That you will never be a doormat. That you will be there when she needs you. That her children will have a warrior king for a father even if he's only king of himself. That you be considerate without being weak. That you be wise without being dogmatic. That you be gentle without being soft. Strong but not rigid. That you be a man as you were meant to be a man.
Ask Kit - she understands.

God knows it's the challenge of this lifetime - If we're lucky we'll live long enough to graduate.

 

[Guest]

Well Said!

Where he leads I follow, where he lives is my home, the strength of his character protects me, the passion in soul keeps me warm, the love in his heart sustains me when I can count on nothing else.

He is a rare and special man. Living in a time not quite his own. Honoring values long since discarded by most men. Putting me before all others. He is my friend, my confidant, my lover, my husband.

I am mother to his children and Chatelaine of his castle. I keep his secrets and hold him safely when he hurts. I am the softness in his soul, the balance of his agression. I am his wife.

To any who may think that I sound weak or subservient . . . understand this, I am the most liberated woman you'll ever meet. I come and go as I please, I disclose only as much of my business or my thoughts as I care to, and I never have to ask permission for anything.

He is the head of the household. It is his "job" to direct our family safely through life. He is the guy in charge. This takes nothing away from me. It actually puts me in the safest position in the world. I am cherished and I know it. Therefore, it is my pleasure to consult with him on my business, to ask for and listen to his advise, and to keep him aware of my movements in the world. He feels the same.

When men and women give each other the security to be who and what they are the most amazing things can happen.

Questions?

Oh, and Rashid....thank you for showing me that mine is not the only Goodly Knight left in the Realm.

 

[Lady_Kit]

Damn Cookie got me again!!

Don't know how I manage it but I keep logging out just when I want to post a reply!
Hope you enjoy by previous "Unregistered" post Rashid!

 

[softcaress69]

Well said!

I don't mean to seem like a pushover. But when you love someone and they you you each are true to your spirits and gender roles. You are each others friend, confidant, lover. Each balance the other. The woman is the softness that a man needs and the man is the protector. You both said it much better than I could. Thank you!

 

[rashid]

Though I be the scourge of the desert....

I shall lay my knife at the lady's feet and bare my throat to her in trust for She is a rare and beautiful bird.

Thank you Kit

Oh hell..... take the weekend off lads - we can pillage Europe on Monday

 

[on_the_verge]

The good, the bad and the ugly

For the purposes of this response, let's oversimplify the male population into two basic groups: nice guys and bad boys.

Just sometimes.

Women have flings with bad boys; they settle down with nice guys. And in her life, a woman will have many more flings than she will long-term relationships — so the dating/fucking odds are in favor of the bad boys. With a fling, qualities like mystery, danger, excitement and edge are more appealing than their l.t.r. counterparts: stability, security and commitment.

With a bad boy, a woman is preoccupied with how long said B.B. will stick around. With a good guy, staying power is less of a concern, so a woman has more time to ponder whether they themselves want to stick around for any extended period.

Another way bad boys lower their rate of rejection: bad boys aren't interested in platonic relationships with women — and that's always clear. Nice guys are good friends. But laying down a friendship as the foundation for a sexual relationship can backfire: once a good friendship is established, most women don't want to risk messing it up by getting romantic.

Nice guys often err on the side of consideration. It's an admirable trait, but, while trying to avoid being rude or insensitive, they often come across as indecisive, shy or pandering. They don't have the audacity or arrogance or self-centeredness to grab a woman by the hand, push her up against a wall and plant one on her passionately. Sometimes, that's exactly what women want (just ask Mel Gibson).

And one more thing: while good guys often come equipped with a relationship resume stacked with great references and successful long-term relationships — have you noticed that nice guys are usually friends with their exes? — this can sometimes work against them. Bad boys with no steady relationships under the belt prove more of a challenge; women wonder if they will be the one to convert him. You'll never be the first woman a bad boy sleeps with, but you can, perhaps, be the last.

Men, don't feel the need to align yourself with one group or the other. You should be the best of both: like Nicholas Cage's character in Moonstruck, say, "Now I want you to come upstairs with me and get in my bed!" Just make sure you cook her breakfast in the morning.

Taking the good with the bad,
— Em & Lo

 

[rashid]

Love like you've never been hurt

More provocative thought. Interesting how the discussion is being distilled.
Bad boys and Good boys. Yup - fuck one - marry the other. Sacrifice passion for security. When you get bored you can always borrow a cup of passion from the bad boy down the block. This, of course, assumes the two cannot co-exist in the same man.

I'm reminded once again that 40%+ of children born to married couples will not test DNA positive for the womans husband. I also read recently that the chances of a wife getting pregnant with her lover are about 60% better than with her husband. hmmmmmmmm.

Multiple posts mentioned women needing to feel safe bafore venturing out to play. Good Boys provide safety and Bad Boys provide passion? How messed up is that???????? Gentlemen?????? Are we that pitiful??????? There is enough truth in this to put it in the spotlight.

Here's my gut reaction - for most of us a real relationship is just too damn much work so we'll take the shortcut - brain death is easier than introspection. The instant gratification mentioned in a previous post. Bad Boys and Good Boys. Incomplete, unexamined parts of the whole man. We throw our hands in the air and exclaim "well that's the way I am" instead of challenging ourselves to be better. How utterly fucking sad.

I'm going out on a limb here and ask the lady Kit if her hubby lacks passion. And I'm going to attempt to predict her answer.
He is most certainly a bad boy - passionate in the exteme
He is predictably unpredictable, fun, assertive, exciting and solid like a rock.
If he strays at all, it's absolutely certain he'll be home. Her world is secure.
She can trust him - Not to be perfect but to be himself.
His devotion to her will never be in question.
BUT.........
She is multi dimensional - she stimulates and excites him
She is a challenge to him.
Her words are honest but never cruel or thoughtless
She does not condemn him, she questions him and is his confidant.
he trusts her.
She may look like Cinderella at the party but she's not afraid to clean the fireplace.
She's his lighthouse and he knows it. No matter his transgressions, no matter how stupid and manlike he occasionally acts, he can find his way home.

In other words they have learned to dance. They are tollerant of each others imperfections because their intention is to learn and grow in each others company. They do not condemn - they communicate. They explore together. They are conscious!!!!!!! And exceedingly rare.

Kit????????????????

 

[on_the_verge]

sometimes

You do have to attack and look at it from all angles, hence my last post. It's just another perspective and not holding so much truth or validity. It is just a point on the line that is drawn like a map or a compass. You can always make squiggles or caulk up the eraser and define it in any way you like.

It's necessary to have some sense and hold towards balance, hence, having the good and bad boy in one package. Yet, there is so much more and this coffee is not allowing me to pursue this further at the moment. Thus, I need to get back in touch with mmy inner lesbian and stretch in the afternoon sun and reflect on this and what it means to me as well as to others.