What is the cause of my low score?

[PennLady]

This is a big bugaboo I have with the approach of a good many critiquers on this subforum, I'm afraid (not picking you out on this, PL. You're one of the best and most sensitive critiquers here--just off the beam on this, I think)--and it's a danger I see in the "everyman" critiquing of the works of others. When you critique something, do you start with examining what the author appeared to be trying to achieve within the category he/she was writing and with the targeted audience in mind? Or do you approach a critique from the aspect of what appeals to you in general and/or that you assume will appeal to others in general (maximizing them votes and favorable comments)? If the former, you are approaching it as a trained critiquer.

You make good points, and I admit that I skimmed rather than read this story. I know I've mentioned Roger Ebert before -- I love to read his stuff -- and one thing that stuck with me from what he's said about reviewing/critiquing is that it's not "what" the thing is about, it's "how it is about it."

I actually do try to keep in mind what an author is going for as opposed to what I want and I think most times I do a decent job on it. I've certainly edited stuff that I don't care to read, but it's not about that -- it's about what the author is trying to do and I try to help them get there.

The particular point about trying to keep the characters undefined so that people can project was brought up by the author in a previous post and I was responding to that more than critiquing the story. As I said, that issue was brought up in regards to another story and I know it's a small sample, but opinion seemed to run against such a method. There may be a large portion of readers who enjoy that, but they don't seem to say much.

 

[sr71plt]

Doesn't "not saying much" (and not staying around to vote/comment) go perfectly with the Voyeur category from the getgo?

 

[PennLady]

Doesn't "not saying much" (and not staying around to vote/comment) go perfectly with the Voyeur category from the getgo?

I suppose it does. Not many extroverted voyeurs out there?

 

[lazyhobo]

There may be a large portion of readers who enjoy that, but they don't seem to say much.

Concerning this one line, I give you a quote of something you said in Story Feedback to someone else.

You'll find that in general, you don't get a ton of comments compared to the views. A small -- very small -- percentage of readers vote on stories, and an even fewer percentage leave comments. Some authors get a lot of comments, but it seems me those are pretty rare.

A Very small percentage of readers vote on a story, comment on a story.

What are the chances, that these quiet readers, dont come onto the forums / join in on discussions like these?

 

[PennLady]

What are the chances, that these quiet readers, dont come onto the forums / join in on discussions like these?

A very small chance, I agree. Which is why I said there may be a lot of readers who do like stories where they can project themselves into the role of narrator or any other character. We just won't know, because they likely won't join in these discussions.

 

[sr71plt]

But for something like the Voyeur category, I suggest the "assume" should be on the side of readers of that category not participating much on the forums.

Again, I think it goes back to starting from the basis of the category's and category readers' characteristics.

I sense a determination to hang on to contextual critique criteria that simply are irrelevant to this category.

Something I failed to say in earlier posts, though. Mechanics can be separated from context in a critique. I think critique on such things as grammar, punctuation, style, word usage, spelling, sentence structure can be given even if you don't connect with the context of a work. And advice on that can be very helpful to the author.

 

[PennLady]

Some things that come to mind:

I've used a misleading title or posted it in the wrong category, or used the wrong tags for this kind of story, so people are expecting something different than they are getting.

Okay, I've read the story all the way through this time. I still think the narrator comes across as creepy, but that may be beside the point.

I'm not sure it's in the wrong category, although I think an argument could be made for non-con, since the woman in the story did in fact not consent to anything. I don't know how big a part the tags play. It is possible that if someone came to this via the "first time" tag, they might have expected it to be about someone's first time having sexual intercourse with another person. The "sexual assault" tag also seems out of place, and might have misled a reader into thinking it was a non-con/reluctance story.

I've seen a wide range of opinions on titles. Some have said they like one that is clear about the content, such as "My Girlfriend Fucked Another Girl," others prefer something less direct (that tends to be what I do), and others don't care.

"Public Masturbator" would have worked, or you could have changed the words to "The Making of a Public Masturbator." If you like the less direct, something like "Temptation in the Garden" might have been good.

There's something in the writing itself that bothers people. If so, I'd love to know what that is, so I can avoid making the same mistake next time.

I think the writing is fine. I couldn't find much fault with the mechanics although there is the occasional awkward sentence, as others have noted.

The subject matter may make people uncomfortable, since you have a man using a woman without her consent, even though he isn't forcing her to have sex with him.

 

[sr71plt]

I still think the narrator comes across as creepy,

And if I were the author of the story, I'd say "Hallelujah!" to that comment. "She gets the category." Howsomever, I think the bigger point is that you don't get the category. That you don't realize that what disturbs you is what drives that category and arouses a set of other folks and that you are just wandering around in an area you probably shouldn't be trying redecorate to your (and your presumed "some others") very different tastes. I think the biggest point is that "some others" just should be reading what they like and leaving those who like to read Voyeur alone--both in reading and in context critique.

 

[PennLady]

And if I were the author of the story, I'd say "Hallelujah!" to that comment. "She gets the category." Howsomever, I think the bigger point is that you don't get the category. That you don't realize that what disturbs you is what drives that category and arouses a set of other folks and that you are just wandering around in an area you probably shouldn't be trying redecorate to your (and your presumed "some others") very different tastes. I think the biggest point is that "some others" just should be reading what they like and leaving those who like to read Voyeur alone--both in reading and in context critique.

You may be right in that I don't "get" the category. Or rather, I do, but it does not appeal to me. And I do realize that what turns me off in that and other categories is just that content that appeals to others. I'm not trying to get the author to redo the story to my tastes -- that makes no sense and it can't be done without ruining the story.

The OP asked "What is the cause of my low score?" I posited an answer without reading the story, noting that some categories simply score lower than others. Then I went back today and read the story and directly responded to suggestions from the author; first, that the story have have been mis-titled, mis-tagged, or miscategorized.

Second, that "There's something in the writing itself that bothers people." I said that mechanics-wise, I didn't see anything wrong, but the content might put people off, but the reasons for that go back to the previous question about tags, etc.

You also had me slightly out of context, because I did say that the narrator was creepy "but that may be beside the point." I believe it is beside the point, and that feeling was irrelevant to the others issues I responded to.

Having gleaned a bit more about the category from this thread, I think I can say that this is probably a fine story about a voyeur who took a risk. It's reasonably well written, far better than much of what one finds on Lit. But going back to the question of low scores, there are a number of possibilities for that, and I tried to cover a few. One of those might -- and I only say might -- be that people who read it and were surprised by the content for whatever reason gave it low scores. I myself did not rate it but likely would have given it a four. Or perhaps those that did read it and are partial to this category grade tougher. Or perhaps there were trolls involved.

 

[sr71plt]

Other than a story being unreadable for mechanics or just plain incoherent in text, there's really no answer to the question of "why the low scores" on Literotica. There are too many variables, and this is enough basic "life experience" that it's probably not what the real question is anyway. The real question in most instances is "Could you please go to my story and hit the 5 button and leave a 'This is brilliant' comment?"

 

[viceguy]

Having gleaned a bit more about the category from this thread, I think I can say that this is probably a fine story about a voyeur who took a risk. It's reasonably well written, far better than much of what one finds on Lit. But going back to the question of low scores, there are a number of possibilities for that, and I tried to cover a few. One of those might -- and I only say might -- be that people who read it and were surprised by the content for whatever reason gave it low scores. I myself did not rate it but likely would have given it a four. Or perhaps those that did read it and are partial to this category grade tougher. Or perhaps there were trolls involved.

I think you are right. It seems to me (after this discussion at least) that the score may be low for these reasons:

It's a first-person "empty vessel" type of story, which doesn't appeal to everyone regardless of category and subject.

It doesn't fit neatly into the category, which will make it disappointing to some readers. As far as I can tell it doesn't fit neatly into non consent either, as those stories generally seem to be feature much stronger actions.

Some people may find the actions depicted in the story creepy or off-putting. Hopefully they would expect these types of actions from a story in this category, but it may go beyond what people are used to.

That said, the score is evening out. 3.5 after 20 votes now.

Thanks for taking the time to read it through and provide feedback. The advice from veteran members like yourselves is invaluable to me.

 

[PennLady]

Other than a story being unreadable for mechanics or just plain incoherent in text, there's really no answer to the question of "why the low scores" on Literotica. There are too many variables, and this is enough basic "life experience" that it's probably not what the real question is anyway. The real question in most instances is "Could you please go to my story and hit the 5 button and leave a 'This is brilliant' comment?"

I definitely agree that there can't be a good answer to the low score question, but it doesn't mean you can't toss it around in your own mind and try a few things. I know I've asked myself, and I'm really not looking for anyone to go vote at all, let alone give it a 5. Mostly for me lower scores come with stories that are a bit outside my usual category, and it may be that, or they may just not be up to my usual standards, or whatever. Doesn't hurt to ask.

 

[sr71plt]

It doesn't fit neatly into the category, which will make it disappointing to some readers. As far as I can tell it doesn't fit neatly into non consent either, as those stories generally seem to be feature much stronger actions.

Perhaps Fetish would have been better (but, as you say, you combined fetishes, which, logically, will reduce readership rather than expand it, because fetishers can be quite tunnel vision on what they want). That doesn't mean you don't write the story that way if it turns you on. It means you take your reward more from posting a story that turned you on rather than chasing favorable votes and comments.

 

[lazyhobo]

I think you are right. It seems to me (after this discussion at least) that the score may be low for these reasons:

It's a first-person "empty vessel" type of story, which doesn't appeal to everyone regardless of category and subject.

It doesn't fit neatly into the category, which will make it disappointing to some readers. As far as I can tell it doesn't fit neatly into non consent either, as those stories generally seem to be feature much stronger actions.

Some people may find the actions depicted in the story creepy or off-putting. Hopefully they would expect these types of actions from a story in this category, but it may go beyond what people are used to.

That said, the score is evening out. 3.5 after 20 votes now.

Thanks for taking the time to read it through and provide feedback. The advice from veteran members like yourselves is invaluable to me.

Dont be off put by all the things mentioned, as it was said, there are too many variables included on why it might get a low score, we're just offering ideas as to what it may be.

I'd say, Wait a little bit of time, for more people to read it, thus giving you more of a score.

Dont forget, there are quite a few people that dont even read the story, and vote it low.

Take Pennlady for example, she said that originally she "skimmed" over it, for a quick idea about it, before giving advice. (Not saying she voted low)

There are some that dont read most of a story, but vote low because of what they did see. (e.g. Reading the first line, assuming the rest will be like it, and voting low)

And others are spiteful against certain authors, editors or even categories, especially stories that dont fit their tags.

I think Voyeur fits this story well, if not then Fetish. As for any other chapters you might make, it depends on how it goes, does he still masturbate? or does he move into sex? they might require different things.

Also - Name, your story name was originally Public Masturbator, I would recommend going back to that. If you plan on further releases, possibly add, Ch1, or Ch2.

 

[sr71plt]

I think Voyeur fits this story well, if not then Fetish. As for any other chapters you might make, it depends on how it goes, does he still masturbate? or does he move into sex? they might require different things.

I think I can see the problem of putting it in Voyeur. I write some Voyeur but I can't leave it there (just as this story doesn't leave it there). I use Voyeur as an introduction but I move it coupling. The only negative comments I've gotten on that were assertions that Voyeur has to be pure "looksee/touchonlyyourself" to be legitimate for that category.

 

[lazyhobo]

I think I can see the problem of putting it in Voyeur. I write some Voyeur but I can't leave it there (just as this story doesn't leave it there). I use Voyeur as an introduction but I move it coupling. The only negative comments I've gotten on that were assertions that Voyeur has to be pure "looksee/touchonlyyourself" to be legitimate for that category.

I'd agree with you, but since he only touches her at the end, and only for a few moments, and not that much. I wouldnt discount is as a voyeur, though I see where you're coming from.

I'd say that if there was more touching and stuff in further chapters, he may wish to consider changing cat, but which one depends on whats in the chapter.

Uh, I'd say that Voyeur can possibly be one of the more "creepy" fetishes, as others would call it, and while it is mainly, touch only yourself, Pure is not the word I would use.

But going from watching to touching is an impulse that not alot can fight, especially if they were right next to it. So, It wouldnt take much from a Voyeur, if in that kids situation, touched her ass like he did.

 

[viceguy]

I'm going to stick to the category and the format for the next couple of stories at least and see what happens.

The score isn't important to me in and of itself, but I wanted to be sure it wasn't indicative of a major problem with the story . This seems not to be the case, so I'll carry on.

 

[viceguy]

Also - Name, your story name was originally Public Masturbator, I would recommend going back to that. If you plan on further releases, possibly add, Ch1, or Ch2.

That is still the name. Does it appear differently for you?

I don't think I want to use chapter numbers, as each story will be self-contained. It doesn't mean there won't be some central thread, but I don't want to give the impression that people have to start with the first and read them in order.

 

[lazyhobo]

That is still the name. Does it appear differently for you?

I don't think I want to use chapter numbers, as each story will be self-contained. It doesn't mean there won't be some central thread, but I don't want to give the impression that people have to start with the first and read them in order.

It comes out at "Public Masturbator - The Making Of"

I do agree, The addition of The Making Of, doesnt sound too great when you hear it.
I think you might want to consider a change, perhaps Keep the Public Masturbator part, but you dont actually need The Making Of.

Or, for each story you can give them a unique name to that particular chapter.

 

[sr71plt]

That is still the name. Does it appear differently for you?

I don't think I want to use chapter numbers, as each story will be self-contained. It doesn't mean there won't be some central thread, but I don't want to give the impression that people have to start with the first and read them in order.

You might, then, include an introductory note telling the readers how this one fits in with preceding ones.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

That is still the name. Does it appear differently for you?

I don't think I want to use chapter numbers, as each story will be self-contained. It doesn't mean there won't be some central thread, but I don't want to give the impression that people have to start with the first and read them in order.

That is what I did with my Desperate Measures anthology series. Before each story I included the following note:

Author's note: Desperate Measures is an anthology consisting of stories related by theme, rather than by character, chronology, or storyline. Accordingly, they can be read in any order, as each installment is a stand-alone entry.

 

[YDB95]

In my admittedly-limited experience, it's a fool's errand to try to write towards higher ratings. Among my stories, the ones I was less than happy with when I posted them often end up scoring higher than the ones I like best. Why that is, I really don't know.

It also helped my perspective that the very first vote I ever got on Lit was a 1. Disappointing at the time, but I figured it could only get better from there, and it did: that story (Elizabeth, linked in my sig-line) has now been over the all-important 4.0 threshold for some time. It took a while to get there, but it was worth the wait. (Given that story's subject matter vis a vis current styles, I wasn't surprised it got some negative votes. When I come across a story about something I don't find sexy at all, I simply don't vote on it because of course I'm not going to like it no matter how well-written it is - but not everyone on here looks at it that way, regrettably.)

 

[estragon]

"Something I failed to say in earlier posts, though. Mechanics can be separated from context in a critique. I think critique on such things as grammar, punctuation, style, word usage, spelling, sentence structure can be given even if you don't connect with the context of a work. And advice on that can be very helpful to the author."--sr71plt

Q.E.D.

 

[SevenSquared]

I quite like the title actually. Providing, of course, it is supposed to be the first in a series all titled 'Public Masturbator', but with different subtitles, slowly telling the story about this guy's perversion and how it developed.

 

[estragon]

A very good thing about this thread, in addition to the intelligent and perceptive comments by writers who are active and professional-grade, is that there has been no trollish sneering. The title of this thread could have attracted trolls, but none came here.