What Makes a story good?

[BigTexan]

Big Texan,
...
I'm sorry I wrote all of this, but these were my thoughts when I read your thread.

q

Don't be sorry Quint, What you wrote is what I was hoping to hear. Not that I was hoping that was everyone's opinion, but I was hoping to hear different peoples opinions.

This has been a great thread for me. I am intrigued by the variety of answers given. Now if I could just take these answers and make all my stories "good"

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in. I hope even more people join in and try to answer this. It really is a difficult question to answer.

BigTexan

 

[Just_John1]

Hey BigTex!

Happy new year Tex! My thoughts on what is a good story are as follows: Grammar and spelling, as long as it doesn't distract attention from the story it doesn't have to be flawless or technically perfect.

I think a story that helps me escape for a while, that I can lose myself into is a good story. Category doesn't really matter, theme isn't all that important, but there are certain story types I prefer and will look at first but I've found great stories in categories I wouldn't expect to enjoy.

I personally (IMHO in other words) enjoy character development and getting to the point that I feel like I almost know the characters, that I can relate to them. Very hard to point my finger and say "that's why its a good story" but I can point to examples of what I think is a good story.

Good thought provoking question tex.

JJ1

 

[sirhugs]

is there anything to add?

just MHO that it is very rare that a hook, plot or character will overcome technical flaws like glaringly bad grammar, more typos than I average, or other severe defects.

On the other hand, a technically perfect exercise is boring without a hook ( I hit 'back' 9 times out of 10 within 3 lines); interesting charcters, and, a plausible premise or plot ( depending on length).

 

[PAUL C]

A good story?

Readable, plausible and enjoyable.

That does it for me.

 

[Never]

BigTexan:
"Just what is it that you think makes a story good?"

Design and craft.

 

[Never]

BigTexan:
"But wouldn't it be nice to be able to quantify how it is done?"
It was quantified, about two thousand three hundred years ago.

" You have the hook, that draws you into the story and it must be done well."
The 'hook' is a product of modern media. Radio, TV, and Film has always had to quickly grab the reader's attention because they had strong time limits at it often takes only the flip of a dial to lose your audience.

" I think Alex said it well, though, style."
Structure. Style is important but it's highly individualist.

 

[Diane Marie]

Most of what I’ve read so far has been taught over and over again in high school lit. I’m sure I could go to any book store, pick up a how to book on writing and read just about the same. Plot, characterization, realistic dialogue, story flow and finally good language skills.

There are thousands of fiction authors published every year, most displays all of the above mentioned requirements of a good story. Why is it so few make the best sellers list? Why is it that of those who do, so few repeat?

Why is it that an author whom the critics have proclaimed excellent is never read?

As bridgetkeeney said, "Sometimes a story in itself is so compelling that I finish it despite the messenger." Why is her statement so true?

Some purest are going to argue with me but it surely is not language skills. Although I’ll admit if the grammar is appalling no one well read it. I assure you, commas can be in the wrong place, or omitted altogether. Sentences run together or be incomplete. Words such as accept can be put where except should have been. ‘To’ can be used where ‘too’ should have been. If I was home I could look up my list of common errors students make on essays, where upon I could include many more. Perhaps the nuns in grade school who taught me English, language arts if you went to public school, along with some very picky authors, may cringe but if it’s a compelling story it well be read.

I’m not sure any of us can define the essence of what makes a truly great story. For just a good readable story, I’d say an interesting but believable plot, good characterization, believable dialogue, dialogue that also fits the characters, good story flow along with readability(good English).

Lastly and maybe the most important is the ability to build the intensity of the story as it moves along it’s path. For shorter stories the intensity should build throughout the whole story. Longer works should, for the most part, follow life, becoming increasingly intense as the situation warrants, then backing off before again building to the next climax.

So many well written stories, grammatically speaking, fail to change the intensity, they read like a monotone, we as readers become bored, a boring story is never finished by the reader. So much about fictional writing can be taught but I’m not sure this one thing, building and varying the story’s intensity, is one of them.

I tend to agree with bridgetkeeney when she said. "A good story for me is one that I am compelled to finish. I may savor it or I may inhale it, but I must 'need' to finish it. I must have a personal investment in what happens next." My belief is that for a story to be compelling it has to vary it’s intensity.

 

[midnitewrtr2]

What makes a good story

I have seen many replies in this thread. Most of what i have seen is well thought out, but I've seen my words stolen and twisted. I have also seen a lot of people that have taken a simple thing and blown it out proprotion.

 

[SteamyChik]

speaking of mainly online reading...

A good story for me means the paragraphs are short, the sex is fairly early in the story, and there is a decent understanding of the concept of quotation marks.

 

[Diane Marie]

reply to midnitewrtr2

I have seen many replies in this thread. Most of what i have seen is well thought out, but I've seen my words stolen and twisted. I have also seen a lot of people that have taken a simple thing and blown it out proprotion.

You have me confused midnitewrtr2, all you said was, "What makes a story good is it's ability to hook the reader and pull him in to read throught to the conclusion regardless of content or personal taste". Not much to steel or twist in what you’ve said.

If as you seem to contend, "What Makes a Good Story," is such a simple thing, which some of us have blown out of proportion. Why are there so many bad stories written? I dare say that the majority of stories posted here are awful. Which to me indicates writing a truly good story is complicated. I find none of this thread "blown it out proprotion", BigTexan asked a question most of the responses have been honest attempts to answer that question.

 

[BigTexan]

It was quantified, about two thousand three hundred years ago.

Okay, I guess I'm not up on my ancient creative writing literature. What book, books, teachings, or whatever are you refering to?

Maybe it's time to let the rest of the world know there is a formula for writing a good story. I sure as hell know I could use one.

BigTexan

 

[Guest]

Okay, I guess I'm not up on my ancient creative writing literature. What book, books, teachings, or whatever are you refering to?

Maybe it's time to let the rest of the world know there is a formula for writing a good story. I sure as hell know I could use one.

BigTexan

I haven't read any of your stories yet, but now I'm intrigued!!

I don't believe there is a specific "formula" - no offense Texan! (To me, that is like taking a popular song apart chord by chord to see why you enjoy it - doesn't make sense)

A writer can produce a textbook work that is boring as hell. Yet at times a poorly written story can truly capture my attention, even though it may be a difficult read.

On this site, some readers are looking for the quick jack type of story, thus the more literary works may be dismissed.

I think true skill is within and cannot therefore be "learned." Refining your talent with study and a great deal of practice should improve your writing.

If there is no gift for writing present, students can learn the techniques and practice and practice and practice, but I don't believe they will ever be truly strong writers. I'm not saying they won't be any good, I'm just saying they won't be great.

 

[NorthwestRain]

Simple:
A good story gets me hard, a great one makes me come.

 

[BigTexan]

I think true skill is within and cannot therefore be "learned." Refining your talent with study and a great deal of practice should improve your writing.

If there is no gift for writing present, students can learn the techniques and practice and practice and practice, but I don't believe they will ever be truly strong writers. I'm not saying they won't be any good, I'm just saying they won't be great.

So ... how do you know if you have the gift? I mean wouldn't it be a truly horrid waste of time to work and work at the techniques if you are forever damned to writing boring stories with no life in them and there is no chance of you ever penning something GREAT!

Maybe you're right. But if you are, how do you know if you have the gift?

BigTexan

 

[SlickTony]

If a story contains things that are so not to my taste as to be virtually incomprehensible and I still keep on reading it, it's got to be good. However, I'll deduct a point if it's glaringly obvious that the writer took no trouble to do any editing work for him or herself.

 

[Weird Harold]

So ... how do you know if you have the gift?

Can you tell a joke? Spin Tall Tales for yur friends? Ever had someone say, "Let BT tell it, he tells it better than I do?"

If the answer is yes, then you might have the story-teller's gift and only need to learn to translate the gift into writing.

It doesn't mean you don't have the gift if the answers are no, some people are just better at writing their thoughts than talking to people.

The only way to sure find out if you have the gift of telling stories in print is to write them and see how they're received.

Apparently, the gift sometimes only visits briefly and then moves on -- I have three stories posted two have dropped into well deserved obscurity, the third is Killermuffin's stated favorite story and was selected for the literotica anthology. <shrugs> I have no idea why that story is so much "better" than the other two. It's definitely NOT better technically, but everything seems to work for that story.

 

[Guest]

Ah....the age old question.

Simply put, from what I've seen its the subject matter that determines popularity of a story more than how well written it is, or isn't for that matter. Obviously "incest" seems to be the favorite "taboo" subject that a surprisingly number of people prefer reading on here. As well as most other sights too.

I've only written a couple of "incest" stories. Having done so (again) because of the exposure and popularity of them. Hoping to expose the reader to my particular writing style so that they "may" become interested in viewing some of the others I have written.

My story "Three sisters and mom" is doing incredibly well with well over 200K reads in a very short time. Interestingly, though I believe I've improved my writing since I began doing so over a year ago, it is still not one of the best stories (I think) that I've written. And interestingly enough, the stories I think are pretty damn good that I really enjoyed writing, (even had edited) to improve the quality of this particular story-teller, aren't doing nearly as well as this story. Including one or two others in "group sex" being another preferred subject to read by many who come here.

A good story for me is one with enough character development to make the people I'm reading about seem real. Like most everyone else that reads/posts here, I enjoy the sex as long as the writer has attempted to make it interesting, involving the characters I can now identify with. To keep it so...and thus keep me interested as well as aroused. If I find it's nothing more than a quickly paced stroke story with very little else going for it, I actually lose interest. Maybe because I've grown "numb" to the same ole' same ole' perhaps. But I prefer to think that like a drinker of fine wines, my tastes have merely sharpened so that I now find myself enjoying a much more subtle flavor blended in with whatever I'm reading.

Thankfully, there's enough of a variety here to select from with some very outstanding writers/story-tellers posting on Lit.

In a way, it's like having a wine cellar. I get to browse through all the possible vintages and selections. Choose one, sit down, let the bouquet begin to stimulate my senses, read....and enjoy.

I remain,

 

[Guest]

So ... how do you know if you have the gift? I mean wouldn't it be a truly horrid waste of time to work and work at the techniques if you are forever damned to writing boring stories with no life in them and there is no chance of you ever penning something GREAT!

Maybe you're right. But if you are, how do you know if you have the gift?


BigTexan

But are you writing primarily for others or for yourself? Is posting stories to Lit the end or a beginning of your dream?

If you enjoy what you are doing, love putting your ideas to paper, love having a select few in the real word appreciate it, and love having some appreciation on a site such as Lit, does it truly matter as to your "greatness?" (for lack of a better word)

It's a tough call because most people want accolades for their work. (And I'm one to talk - forget the votes, baby - just send me feedback!!)

I think Weird Harold had wonderful suggestions. If you are a good storyteller - that may be an indication of success - even if you may need to get help to put pen to paper. Read as much as you can in any subject, practice writing every single day, and practice editing every single day.

I don't think there are any definite answers for this situation. But I firmly believe if you enjoy what you are doing - don't stop!

 

[Guest]

Here Here Sweetsub......

What you said.......<wink>

 

[SlickTony]

Obviously "incest" seems to be the favorite "taboo" subject that a surprisingly number of people prefer reading on here.

Favorite? It's practically the only one that's left. When I was coming up, it was supposed to be terrible if you had sex with someone when you weren't married. It was a taboo to cross racial lines--in some states in my country it was actually illegal. As for homosexuality, the things that people do with members of their own sex are still illegal in some states in my country, even though they are the same things people of the opposite sex do with each other--go figure. I suppose there are lobbies and interest groups in favor of legalizing incest--the only other taboo I can think of is pedophilia, where we shall not go--but I don't imagine it gets that much media coverage.

 

[Never]

BigTexan:
"Okay, I guess I'm not up on my ancient creative writing literature. What book, books, teachings, or whatever are you refering to?"

"Poetics" by Aristotle

"Maybe it's time to let the rest of the world know there is a formula for writing a good story. I sure as hell know I could use one. "

It's about principles, not rules.
It's about forms, not formulas.
It's about thoroughness, not short-cuts.

 

[Weird Harold]

It's about thoroughness, not short-cuts.

Very good points, Never.

The one I quoted brought the thought that originality is important to whether a story is "Good" or "cliched."

Tolkien's Lord Of The Rings Trilogy is a good example. It's primary claim to "greatness" is that it was really the first of its kind and is the basis for the popularity of Fantasy.

Later fantasies aren't as "good" as LoTR, because they are often pale copies of Tolkien's.

However, the above is true only if the reader has read LoTR first! The first rendition of a particular plot or genre encountered becomes the standard by which readers judge subsequent works.

The relevance here, is that what is a "good story" to you often depends on what else you've read. A very formulaic story loaded with cliches can be a "good" story if you've never encountered the formula and cliches before.

 

[Never]

That’s an excellent point WH. I write science fiction and fantasy stories and you’ve brought up a main concern for writers in that genre. Unknown world fans can be rabid. It’s not unusual for a fan to have read over a hundred UW books, to seen every episode of Twilight Zone, Star Trek, the X-files, and to go to ever UW movie that comes out.

It’s easy for an inexperienced writer to come up with an ‘original’ idea that’s already been done dozens of times. There’s the ‘strange acting aliens are really infants’, the ‘unknown landscape is a common object as seen by some microscopic being’, the ‘man saves baby and at the end of the story we learn it’s Hitler’, as well as countless others. The more knowledgeable a reader is in a genre the sooner they spot your cliché for what it is. That is why it behooves a writer to know the genre they’re working in better than the reader does. It is much easier to catch and discard clichéd writing that way.

On the other hand, there are (hopefully) always new readers. Once a writer learns to manipulate the conventions of the UW genres it is easy to forget that there are people who are getting into the pool for the first time. As these genres are based on idioms this can be disastrous.

 

[Guest]

and did you say it differently?

The one I quoted brought the thought that originality is important to whether a story is "Good" or "cliched."

WH's point is very important, I think.

An original story-- story line-- takes imagination and vision.

An original story-- the whole enchilada-- takes a good story line and crafts it into a compelling experience. (forgive me for not quoting craft... brain's blurry) Whether the story line is original or not.

BT's question was what makes a good story... we have had answers covering both the plot portion and the total picture.

On the first draft of one of my stories that has gotten positive responses I had been challenged by a friendly writer/reader (thank you, Paul C) that my "getting sucked off in a car story" wasn't original... I left the piece for a few weeks and then went back with what I thought was the original part that was missing. I ended up really liking the final version and was pleased that I was able to take a technically okay piece to a full "story".

Moral of this story for me... craft will never subsitute for the unique twist that "breathes life" into a story.

b

 

[Guest]

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