What's up with all the incest?

[BetaTrine_Flux]

sex is sex; but freak nasty is entertainment

Sex itself is in many minds taboo, that is usualy because it is a clumsy, messy, and very intimate act. and thus should remain private.

Families are considerd places for a very diferent intimacy, one that is only sometimes needed to be private. and if you can take something that is not taboo, but shares some traits with taboo subjects( how many of us have herd sayings like "Family buisness is for the family" or "Don't air the dirty laundry on the front porch") and combine it with something that is truly taboo, you end up with a much greater taboo. One that is rarely, hopfuly, ever broken in reality; but which makes for great basis for fiction, especialy erotic fiction. now this doesn't mean that every writter should write incest stories. if you want to, just stick to erotic couplings and romance, or find your own brand of freak nasty to write about. you also should not feel any presure to read anything your not comfortable with as fantasy. But i feel that, as long as it is left as fantasy, we should not judge anyones choices on these matters. so if people wan to write a few tens of thousands of incest storis, let 'em.

As for incest in real life, it usualy involves children, and is usualy horrific, nasty, and just plain cruel. even when dealing strictly with adults incest is usualy a horrible expieriance for at least some of the participants and members of their family who find out. however, there have been( and will be again) instances where incest among consenting adults was not harmful and was infact a truly beautiful relationship or act, but this is so rare(usualy among cousins at best) that if one knew of all such instances in the last 100 years, one could probably count them on ones fingers and toes.

Be good, be good at it, or don't get caught!

You can do anything you want, provided you can pay for it
-- Bad religion, state of the end of the millenium address

 

[feignedinnocence]

incest

i understand the appeal of incest...anything you arent supposed to do can be appealing...however, i am usually sickened by incestuous stories. i come from a family of 5 children and cant imagine anything of the sort with any of them, as well as with cousins, uncles, aunts, etc. incest is easy to write about...you dont have to go to the trouble of making your characters meet and get to know eachother in any sort of way. its slam, bam, thank you ma'am and thats it. i admire anyone with a love of writing and a desire to see their work in print but...it just seems that some of these stories are written because they're easy to write.

 

[jon.hayworth]

Hi Feignedinnocense,

I wonder how innocent you really are.

I looked at your biog and know that you are female - I do not know if you had brothers as well as sisters. I did.

I was a child in the 50s when people were less willing to ascribe evil motives to childrens play, I know that I and most of my peer group learnt the difference between males and females from playing games like "Doctors and Nurses" with their siblings.

Then as we got older we learnt the incest taboo and that stopped - the point I am trying to make is that deep down there is within most of us a desire. In my first posting on the subject I tried to make the point - Laws are made as a reaction to things people do. Therefore the universiality of the incest taboo must be because the impulse is widespread and predates any form of society that made laws.

Sometime ago I read an anphropologist who claimed that early man lived surrounded by females, and like the Apes and other animals would attack his own male offspring once they had attained puberty. I find that theory believable!!

jon

 

[Beethoven'sFire]

What universal impulse? Reading this thread I've seen it referred to, but no one gives evidence for it. I think most people are repulsed by it.

I thought about signing out and posting this as unregistered, but then I thought against it. I have talked openly with many different people on the topic of incestuous behavior, and I truly believe that almost everyone has a cousin or the like that they've messed around with when they were younger.

Does this count as incest?

When I was fourteen I was involved in something of a relationship with a female cousin of mine. Many years before I'd played what Aldous Huxley would call "erotic games" with one of my male cousins. I believe that there is a lot of this type of behavior going on, without sexual abuse.

As for people being repulsed by it... I'm sure that people like me feel ashamed for what they've done when they were younger, because of the social taboo. Many others claim to be repulsed when they actually are not.

I provide for example the stories of VC Andrews, a popular writer. It is almost a law that her stories must contain incest somewhere within, and the character's struggle when they found it out. (And most often they end up giving into anyway, and we are all secretly delighted.)

 

[mlyn]

Interesting topic is Incest-

Personally, I can't write it. I've read some. The ones here are all safe, involving 18 yrs and older.

I've read some on other sites that involved children, and those are damaging and should be removed. I don't think pedophiles need any more stimulation.

I've worked with children for 23 yrs, and I think anyone who abuses a child should suffer the worst of consequences. Unfortunately, statistics are saying that nearly all pedophiles were themselves abused as children. So the only way to end it, is to stop it all levels.

The stories involving 18 yr olds make it legally more acceptable for most people. And I agree, the tension is already there, so for a writer, incest probably is easier to write.

 

[jon.hayworth]

May I be amongst the first to congratulate Beethoven'sFire. -

a. For having the courage to admit to having the impulse, and to some extent explaining it.

b. For having the greater courage to write in his own name.

I don't know about social mores in other parts of the world, but I do know that in the Anglo-Saxon parts of the UK 1st cousin relationships are relitively rare, whereas in Cornwall amongst the indiginous population, (as against the incomers) they are quite common, including marriages. And sibling relationships are the subject of local myth.

I have written this joke before, but you will need a map to fully understand it.

A man from Penzance is in a bar with a friend and the friend's sister who come from St Just (a tiny town 10 miles away on the Lands End peninsular).
(The Penzance man is chatting-up the sister, when she goes to the toilet)
PENZANCE MAN: (to friend) Tell me as an expert on the matter is your sister any good in bed.

The same joke is told about a man from Helston and a brother/sister from the Lizard.

Now I will shut up and sign off.

jon

 

[Ray Dario]

Jon,

We have that in America too. Here we call it Arkansas

The joke here is:

If two people from Arkansas get a divorce are they still brother and sister?

 

[PS Patty]

short

I'll make this short and sweet.
You probably either like it
Or you don't
Who cares why. will that change if you like it or not?
Probably not.

 

[jon.hayworth]

Ray,

Thanks for that one - you know what they say - "many a true word is said in jest!!"

jon

 

[CRaZy]

If two people from Arkansas get a divorce are they still brother and sister?

Yes they are but it's up in the air who gets the trailer.


I'm reliably told that West Virginians cop a lot of these jokes too.

 

[mug shot]

I dont know about anyone else, but i enjoy reading some of the incest stories as well as everything else, just bcause it seems that many of the incest stories have more of a story line/plot and more intimacy included in them than others. Some stories are just written better and from what i have read, many of the incest stories are just written better than others.

 

[bareback writer]

Well... I'd like to try, but I think it's one of those things, that if you don't get it... you don't get it?

 

[mlyn]

incest

I also think the incest thing has lots of degrees, which while some is acceptable to our moral inner being, some are not. And while I think we can be aroused by some things we might consider on the border morally, there are still others that for some of us step too far over the line, and it repels rather than arouses.

I've been writing a story about two cousins, and then it involves one woman and two men, and I find myself getting confused in where the story should go myself. Which I guess is good in a way, because that is how life is- you never get a sign that says this "is the right road for YOU!"

 

[jon.hayworth]

I think the line Mlyn writes about is not only individual, but is also a cultural matter.

eg Mlyn has trouble writing an incest story involving cousin relationships. In the part of the UK where I live and in many other rural parts of the UK - certainly the Celtic parts these relationships are normal. First Cousin marriages are both legal and not uncommon. The only legal problem that could arise would be if one party was under 18 and the other was also that person's guardian or had some other legally recognised power over them.

If I remember my English law correctly relationships between step-parent and step-child are legal again provided that the child is over 18.

So when readers from some parts of the UK come across cousin relationships in the incest section, we tend to think "What???" - Keep on writing them if they are a good read what the heck - a story is a story.

This letter was not intended to be a put down, just to illustrate the flexible nature of the definition.

jon