When she won't look you in the eye...

[mcopado]

Thanks mcopado but I don't think I need it. I was planning to just blurt out do you want to have coffee with me.

I'm in a bit of a dilema though. Things weren't going anywhere with her, and I hadn't seen her for a while. I went in on the weekend and there was another cuite there. Unlike the first one we have great eye contact, and she smiles at me and seemed pleased to see me even though we hadn't really spoken. I like them both. I can't ask them both out though. If I asked the fist one and she said no, it would be shitty to just go to the second one. Although, she might be just being friendly too, but I'm determined to try.

But which one?

Well if you read the book, then you would know that take them both out for coffee (less threatening that way) have them bidding for your attention with your charming ways...Then pick the one you are most interested in, ignore her to confuse her, and have her persue you harder....then you can go out with her later...and have the other one as a fall back if you want...

Then if you really studied the book (And wanted to be like those guys) you could then get them surprisingly easily into a menage e trois...If that was your thing...

Seriously, the book has a heck of a lot in the first few chapters on the dynamics of male/ female interactions, and a few of the pointers could easily get even the nerdiest social outcast past the first awkward moments...

Funny that as a minister I found the psychology of a womans thought processes, in the courting game to be much more realistic then any of the psyche textbooks I read in undergrad or for my mdiv....

And about human social interactions in general....

 

[mcopado]

Oh and bluting out "will you have coffee with me" is a total no-no...You don't think she get's hit on a million times a week by horny guys of all ages...You need to disarm her...and charm her by not appearing to want to taker her out...it is allsocial dynamics my friend... read my previous post.

 

[incubus'_sub]

To me it sounds like she's being polite and giving you attention as part of her job. I do it all day, every day and it's my own business so I do it well. If she were at all interested she would have watched the movie with you, she would smile at you, meet your eyes, engage you in conversation not just answer your questions. Over the years I've had numerous customers in your situation and each time I'm worried that something I might do or say will encourage them, yet I cannot ever be rude or dismissive in any way.

Try the new girl, she's smiling at least. That's a start.

 

[human_male]

Well, I went in to talk to the second one today and we had a nice chat, but it turns out she's only seventeen. I assumed she must be eighteen because they have an adult section there that she obvioulsy needs to deal with to do her job. I'm just glad I found out before I asked her out or started undressing her with my eyes or something.

We happened to be talking about our jobs when she mentioned it by the way.

So that's it, it's all over. Back to hum-drum, lonely normality. I know the other one is grown up because she lives in a flat (as in rents a room in a house with a bunch of other housemates) but I agree with Incubus in that she's probably not interested. And I haven't seen her for a while anyway. Oh well.

 

[mcopado]

So if you're not doing anything tonight, you're welcome to join us in the spirituality and sexuality thread...having a lively discussion....

Haven't satarted the pillow fight yet...or go hang out in one of Virgin Not's threads...she knows you from the depression thread...go play one of the games with her, like Lies, Lies...which you have to speak the opposite of what you mena...total mind fuck actually...

 

[eudaemonia]

I would say that the trick to this at this point is being able to not take the subject as one that would hurt anybody's feelings.

The ability to say yes or no to a cup of coffee should be light and easy for her and for you.

There really should be no feelings or expectations on either side to be hurt. If there are any, they are imaginary and shouldn't be taken seriously by anybody.

It's nice to have fantasies or thoughts about what you'd like, but so far, there's nothing but a light conversation.

Rejection is a choice you make to allow yourself or others, and letting someone off the hook whether it is asking someone for a cup of coffee or asking you to marry them, is always a gracious choice to allow another person. It is their choice to say yes or no. Your choice is to ask and let go of the question.

This is a really beautiful post. I wish I had seen this earlier. Thank you.

 

[human_male]

This threads become a little diary of sorts as far as this girls concerned, so it's cool if everyone's bored to death of this, I'm gonna keep updating it anyway.

I was in there just now and spent fifteen minutes with her just chatting away happily like we're finally becoming friends. But it turns out she's only 23 and I'm 35, although I don't look or act my age. Do you think I should still ask?

But it was great just chatting, until I said my fish and chips would be ready so I'd better go, then I asked if she was hungry... and she pointedly looked right at me and said no thank you. Like don't you fuckin dare.

So on the one hand I'm encouraged because now she actually greets me like a mate, although she still doesn't use my name. But that no thank you was certainly discouraging.

I think it's a friends thing rather than a sexual attraction for me, which is fine. I'd be happy just being mates, but I can't bring myself to make that first step. What if I gave her a Christmas card fist, rather than jumping to the coffee invitation?

 

[M's girl]

.... I was in there just now and spent fifteen minutes with her just chatting away happily like we're finally becoming friends. But it turns out she's only 23 and I'm 35, although I don't look or act my age. Do you think I should still ask?

But it was great just chatting, until I said my fish and chips would be ready so I'd better go, then I asked if she was hungry... and she pointedly looked right at me and said no thank you. Like don't you fuckin dare.

Maybe she just doesn't like fish and chips. Hey, you talked to her and she talked back; that's a start. I would not let the fact that she's 23 and you are 35 bother me. Just go back and talk to her some more. After a few times you'll get it if she likes you enough to invite her to have coffee or so is my guess. Be patient and work on it. Try not to push things too much though.

 

[mcopado]

Maybe she just doesn't like fish and chips. Hey, you talked to her and she talked back; that's a start. I would not let the fact that she's 23 and you are 35 bother me. Just go back and talk to her some more. After a few times you'll get it if she likes you enough to invite her to have coffee or so is my guess. Be patient and work on it. Try not to push things too much though.

I worried about the age thing a lot too, in fact there is a thread here about age differences...I think it is the playgroung and is something like, what is the greatest age difference of the person you slept with...

I learned a lot from there.....Found out there are a lot of women who like older men, not because thy're looking for a sugar daddy, but because they are looking for someone who they can talk to about what they are interested in...

I'm in love with a 24 year old, and I'm 40...Scares me, but she is wiser and more mature, and socially conscious than most of the women my own age I was dating....FOR GOD SAKES DON'T LET AGE STOP YOU!!!

Actually don't let anything inside your head stop you...You have a 50% percent success rate if you try and a 100% failure rate if you do nothing...

 

[mcopado]

I noticed that you asked about giving her a Christmas card...How well do you know her??? Or how long have you been a customer of hers? I think there is a fine line into awkwardness there..She might be embarassed that you singled her out...She may feel awkward because she suddenly has nothing for you...Yadda yadda....

I think it would be easier just to jump into asking her for coffee without having any expectations...but don't necessarily make it like a "Date" for coffee...don't sound desperate or you'll come off like a dweeb..

Instead engage her in an interesting conversation about something...Preferably near the end of her shift.....Then as she notices it is quitting time (or break time even) Suggest to her that you two continue your discussion over a cuppa Joe...Doesn't have the "Datey" ring to it...just two friends continuing a chat in a different venue...

 

[human_male]

Yay! Yay for me! Finally did it. It was so easy, it just slipped right out. I guess the time was finally right. Plus she seems glad to see me now. She greeted me with a chirpy "Hello stranger."

While we were chatting I just said do you want to grab a coffee later? She said she couldn't tonight or tomorrow because she was going home for Christmas but she'd be back after. So I think that means yes. But even if she'd said no I'm still glad I finally did it. And I'm so glad I didn't force it earlier because it felt like just the right time.

Anyway, thank you all. I'll keep updating as this is by far the most interesting thing in my life at the moment.

Cheers.

 

[Quoll]

Congrats HM, makes you wonder what all the fuss was about sometimes.

 

[mcopado]

Yay! Yay for me! Finally did it. It was so easy, it just slipped right out. I guess the time was finally right. Cheers.

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[flipv]YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!![/flipv]

It's not as hard as it seems...It's just a matter of having no expectations and no fear of rejection....We don't turn into a pile of Goo is someone rejects us...We just pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off and start all over agin...

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

 

[midwestyankee]

Yay! Yay for me! Finally did it. It was so easy, it just slipped right out. I guess the time was finally right. Plus she seems glad to see me now. She greeted me with a chirpy "Hello stranger."

While we were chatting I just said do you want to grab a coffee later? She said she couldn't tonight or tomorrow because she was going home for Christmas but she'd be back after. So I think that means yes. But even if she'd said no I'm still glad I finally did it. And I'm so glad I didn't force it earlier because it felt like just the right time.

Anyway, thank you all. I'll keep updating as this is by far the most interesting thing in my life at the moment.

Cheers.

Good for you!

 

[human_male]

Well I don't know what the fucks going on. I went in to say hello today, expecting a bright "hi how're you?" like on Friday. Instead she just nods and says hey. So I try to chat with her and asked if she's still up for a coffee and she said she doesn't know because she's going out of town again. Which is fair enough, but her whole demeanor was more like it was two months ago before (at least I thought) we got to know each other a bit.

So now I feel fucking stupid, and a lot more disappointed than I thought I'd feel, plus con-fucking-fused.

Well that's it, I'm certainly not asking again. I'll just stay out of there. But at least I can put it behind me and not worry myself to death about whether or not I should ask her out.

And there's me, all weekend imagining all the things we were going to do together. Picturing hanging out and all that sort of thing you do when you're seeing someone. And wondering if she was thinking about me as much as I was about her. Now I really DO feel stupid.

 

[mcopado]

Well I don't know what the fucks going on. I went in to say hello today, expecting a bright "hi how're you?" like on Friday. Instead she just nods and says hey. So I try to chat with her and asked if she's still up for a coffee and she said she doesn't know because she's going out of town again. Which is fair enough, but her whole demeanor was more like it was two months ago before (at least I thought) we got to know each other a bit.

So now I feel fucking stupid, and a lot more disappointed than I thought I'd feel, plus con-fucking-fused.

Well that's it, I'm certainly not asking again. I'll just stay out of there. But at least I can put it behind me and not worry myself to death about whether or not I should ask her out.

And there's me, all weekend imagining all the things we were going to do, picturing hanging out and all that sort of thing you so when you're seeing someone. Now I really do feel stupid.

Sorry about that...That's why we shouldn't become attached to the outcome. I know it is hard...BUT DON"T BEAT YOURSELF UP...

I am serious dude, you shot down my idea to read that book I recomended earlier in this thread..The game of whatever the heck it is called... and you'r efalling into the same trap most men do...

Take rev. Mikes advice and check it out of the library...There are behavior things that women do and men do in the dancing of asking each other out...and most men come off like pathetic losers (myself included)...But the book is full of tricks and tips, to disarm and charm someone you are interested in..

Those people the book is about are some of the best pop psychologists in the world..and now they're teaching people how to do what they do it and charging 700-1000 dollars for a workshop...WHy, because it works...
Most of the guys doing it were/are ugly pathetic losers before figuring out what makes people tick...now they're beating off supermodels with a stick..

You don't have to use the book to do the things that they're doing..just to easily ask someone out for coffee, without feeling like a jerk if she shoots you down...

 

[human_male]

Sorry about that...That's why we shouldn't become attached to the outcome. I know it is hard...

Yeah I know what you're saying.

Y'know... Friday, when she was so nice and everything went so well, seems like a dream. And I just got a rude awaking as someone slapped me across the face.

 

[mcopado]

Yeah I know what you're saying.

Y'know... Friday, when she was so nice and everything went so well, seems like a dream. And I just got a rude awaking as someone slapped me across the face.

Hey buddy, read what else I put in the post, I went back and revised it....

 

[human_male]

Hey buddy, read what else I put in the post, I went back and revised it....

I see. I didn't mean to shoot your suggestion down. I appreciated it. But I just don't want to get a date by manipulating her psycologically, or whatever. If she doesn't like me for me then I'm not bothered.

I'm just sounding so down on myself because it just happened. After a day or two I'll be fine.

But on the other hand, it would be nice to know why she went from being keen to completely indifferent toward me over a weekend.

Maybe she hooked up with someone, maybe that's why.

 

[mcopado]

I see. I didn't mean to shoot your suggestion down. I appreciated it. But I just don't want to get a date by manipulating her psycologically, or whatever. If she doesn't like me for me then I'm not bothered.

I'm just sounding so down on myself because it just happened. After a day or two I'll be fine.

But on the other hand, it would be nice to know why she went from being keen to completely indifferent toward me over a weekend.

Maybe she hooked up with someone, maybe that's why.

It really isn't manipulating her psychologically....It is about simply knowing what signs and signal she's sending, and what her unconscious signal are...
Actually in this game of relationships thewoman is always in control, if anything she is either unconcsiously or consciously manipulating us...

I bet you'd be surprised if you'd read it...I bet you would find even one idea or insight that would just change how you do things when you meet someone you are interested in...and I bet you you'll succeed.

Yes the book is about a shallow superficial subculture, but it is a shallow and superficial subculture that any guy who wants to get past the initial awkward dweebiness of trying to ask someone out can learn from...You will find everything that we do wrong clearly shown...it is like a mirror...and you will find the right things to do..

Listen I read and teach from a lot of self-help books, I know most of the hottest self help authors around.....John Gray (men are from mars..) beverly D'angelo, Marrianne Williamson, THe Chicken soup for the soul guys, Robert Bly, Wayne Dyer, Dr. Jean Houston...I've met and worked with them all in one way or another...and I've learned more about meeting women and human relationships from The Game then any of these other men and women...

 

[human_male]

Just bumping it in case someone else has a notion of what's going on.

 

[~sweetthang~]

You know, the holidays can be very hard on people - it could be that is why she has done what seems like a about face. I say give her a few days, and ask again.

Besides - as you know, women can be sooo moody at times-

 

[human_male]

I might go in again to test the water, but I'm not asking again.

I'd particularly appreciate more female assesments.

Ta