Who has the power in a D/s relationship?

[Brosco]

With no particular offense meant to "brosco"....Am I the only one that has a problem with the above????

No offense taken here - but could you explain to me the problem you have?

 

[Brosco]

In our relationship we do have a continuous 24.7 power exhange, but if rose needs to discuss something with me, we just talk about. THere is no need for a safeword for her just to say that she is not happy with something... for example.

I can understand that - just like some progress past what you have and have no need of a safeword at all. Trust and knowledge of each other would get you there.

Every situation is different. But this topic was not about where safewords are used - it was about who has the power in the relationship - I simply used an example that is incorporated by others to draw my conclusion.

Brosco

 

[Life_Noir]

In our relationship we do have a continuous 24.7 power exhange, but if rose needs to discuss something with me, we just talk about. THere is no need for a safeword for her just to say that she is not happy with something... for example.

MasterPheonix as always is quite succinct...
And that pretty much covers it ... But to put my own personal slant to it..
Even without a 24/7... That type of discussion is not a "safeword" thing..
A safeword is like the big red button on an industrial machine... When you hit that button ...Everything "STOPS"... RFN.. It is the ultimate safety precaution for the submissive... Everything stops.
Hmm The other...Well.. *shrug* A good Dom/me listens to the sub...

Of course we could just be tripping over a difference in terminology here..*shrug* It happens..

Or to be more on topic.. One could say that using a "safeword" in that situation...is an sbuse of power....

 

[Brosco]

MasterPheonix as always is quite succinct...
And that pretty much covers it ... But to put my own personal slant to it..
Even without a 24/7... That type of discussion is not a "safeword" thing..
A safeword is like the big red button on an industrial machine... When you hit that button ...Everything "STOPS"... RFN.. It is the ultimate safety precaution for the submissive... Everything stops.
Hmm The other...Well.. *shrug* A good Dom/me listens to the sub...

Of course we could just be tripping over a difference in terminology here..*shrug* It happens..

Or to be more on topic.. One could say that using a "safeword" in that situation...is an sbuse of power....

Of course, one could also say that there are no rules to how we practice D/s, just different ideas that we share. So while I don't have any issue with you not seeing my implementation working for you - I still would like to see why you see problems with it as a general concept.

A simple example. I once told a sub I was going to publish a very personal thing that she wrote for me because I felt it was so good. She ranted, raved, screamed and eventually cried that I betrayed a trust - I simply asked her, if she felt that strongly, why not use a safeword?

If 'freedom of expression' is allowed in a relationship it can sometimes be confusing what is a 'subbie protest' and what is genuine until it is really pushed. I will add that I don't have that 'confusion' where I am at the moment, I know what is playful and and what is genuine - but it is not always clearly recognised in every relationship.

 

[Life_Noir]

Of course, one could also say that there are no rules to how we practice D/s, just different ideas that we share. So while I don't have any issue with you not seeing my implementation working for you - I still would like to see why you see problems with it as a general concept.

A simple example. I once told a sub I was going to publish a very personal thing that she wrote for me because I felt it was so good. She ranted, raved, screamed and eventually cried that I betrayed a trust - I simply asked her, if she felt that strongly, why not use a safeword?

If 'freedom of expression' is allowed in a relationship it can sometimes be confusing what is a 'subbie protest' and what is genuine until it is really pushed. I will add that I don't have that 'confusion' where I am at the moment, I know what is playful and and what is genuine - but it is not always clearly recognised in every relationship.

Indeed... And I would say at this point, that we have defined between us, what is probably a fundamental difference method and outlook. But also in basic philosophies.
*shrug*
Such is the beauty of life....To each their own.

 

[Brosco]

Indeed... And I would say at this point, that we have defined between us, what is probably a fundamental difference method and outlook. But also in basic philosophies.
*shrug*
Such is the beauty of life....To each their own.

**smiles** thank you for the acknowledgement, but I fail to see where "we" defined anything. It seems that it is was "I" that defined there can be differences - if you remember - you had a problem with my thoughts but still have failed define what those problems were.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

Of course, one could also say that there are no rules to how we practice D/s, just different ideas that we share. So while I don't have any issue with you not seeing my implementation working for you - I still would like to see why you see problems with it as a general concept.

A simple example. I once told a sub I was going to publish a very personal thing that she wrote for me because I felt it was so good. She ranted, raved, screamed and eventually cried that I betrayed a trust - I simply asked her, if she felt that strongly, why not use a safeword?

If 'freedom of expression' is allowed in a relationship it can sometimes be confusing what is a 'subbie protest' and what is genuine until it is really pushed. I will add that I don't have that 'confusion' where I am at the moment, I know what is playful and and what is genuine - but it is not always clearly recognised in every relationship.

With communication, you can tell what is subbie protest, and what is a serious issue... what can be upshed, and what not to push...

 

[Brosco]

With communication, you can tell what is subbie protest, and what is a serious issue... what can be upshed, and what not to push...

In every case?

Sorry, I disagree. Communication grows, and I agree that it will get to that point, but it isn't always so. Just as I acknowledge that some get to a point that a safeword isn't even needed - the understanding between the couple is just so good.

I love the person I am with now. It certainly aint hard to tell when she is being 'subbie protest' or very serious. But that is far from true in all cases. If I talked purely about my current relationship I can assure you I can tell exactly the tone in her mind without listening to the tone in her voice. But this is a forum and not just about our own personal relationship. A forum is a place to share knowledge and experience - but not a place to suggest personal experiences and tastes apply to all others.

Again - back to the topic of this thread - who has the power?

I have a wonderful intelligent successful high achieving person as a sub. Who has the power? Easy - I have exactly the power she grants me - but also remember - if I didn't have the strength she desired, she would not have given it.

So who has the power - me because she likes my strength - and my subbie because gives over her power to me.

I truly wonder about the ego of some Doms that think they are totally in control.

lol... in another forum I used to have a signature that read:

"Any Dom that thinks he is totally in control - has a very clever subbie"

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think the reference to using a safeword is very important in answering the question.

By having a safeword, the sub has the power to stop anything unacceptable from continuing. And conversely, not using the safeword is acceptance of what is happening. The Dom on the otherhand is the one in control of what happens. To me, that puts the power at around equal, but hard to measure because they come from different perspectives. If I was going to lean to one side on this, I would say that the sub has slightly more power.

And although someone said that a safeword is just for a scene, not the relationship - I would disagree, or at least how I feel it should be used. A safeword can be used at any time to clearly indicate that this is 'me' talking now, not the subbie, and should be respected as such. To use a very simple example - in a discussion about trying some new activity it could be made very clear that there was not the slightest interest in attempting this new idea, and avoid any misunderstanding that it was just a 'subbie protest'.

And then some of us just don't have a safe word...

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

So who has the power - me because she likes my strength - and my subbie because gives over her power to me.

I truly wonder about the ego of some Doms that think they are totally in control.

Well I can see how it works in your world, but it is limited vision to believe your way is everyone's way, especially when it seems to contradict your own words. For one thing, you say your sub has given over her power to you, but then you say that means she has power....my understanding of the english language is that once you have given something to another, you no longer have it, in this case she no longer possesses the power if she have given it away to you so wouldn't that then mean you are one of those Doms you seem to sneer at who holds all the power?

Catalina

 

[Brosco]

Well I can see how it works in your world,

Nope - I don't think you can

but it is limited vision to believe your way is everyone's way, especially when it seems to contradict your own words.
[

nope again - I think my posts have made it clear that it is all different for each of us.

For one thing, you say your sub has given over her power to you, but then you say that means she has power....my understanding of the english language is that once you have given something to another, you no longer have it, in this case she no longer possesses the power if she have given it away to you so wouldn't that then mean you are one of those Doms you seem to sneer at who holds all the power?

HUH????

If a person gives over a power, but has the right to take it back - how is it that I am the all so mighty powerful one?

 

[Brosco]

And then some of us just don't have a safe word...

Catalina

very true - I thought I had addressed that elsewhere... but to reiterate -

Those that don't have a safeword are (or should be) those that have built a strong relationship where it doesn't take a safeword to express the difference between anguish and severe distress and safety concerns. A safeword is no longer needed because there is the trust that limits would not be exceeded. A safeword isn't needed because you trust a partner so much that you have no doubts of him reading you.

However, for mere mortals in the D/s world, a safeword aint a bad idea until we get to that ultimate stage of perfection between sub and dom - master and slave - and just know that as the blood starts to gush and conciousness is lost - he will know when to rush me to hospital just in time to save me from death.

Look, unlike you elite who have achieve perfection - most have safewords, and not just in play, but to ensure that there is an opportunity for a equal exhange of views. Please forgive us lesser beings for expressing an opinion. I'm sure that unless you are a totally mindless twit you would have gone through the stages to build the trust in the dom you you now feel so confident as to not even need a safeword.

Or do you recommend to all subbies on their journey of discovery to bypass the safeword stage?

 

[WriterDom]

Topping from below by the unions has driven Ford, GM, and Daimler-Chrysler into the ground. Ford alone lost 12.7 billion dollars in 2006. They "may" show a profit in 2009.

 

[Brosco]

Topping from below by the unions has driven Ford, GM, and Daimler-Chrysler into the ground. Ford alone lost 12.7 billion dollars in 2006. They "may" show a profit in 2009.

ROFLMAO

Perhaps its because the Asians are so much more efficient - they don't have a layer of highly paid management with MBAs that contribute nothing to the process.

 

[Recidiva]

Eventually this comes down to - "Who has the power in a hot fudge sundae, the hot fudge or the ice cream?"

Uh...it's yummy? The combination, that is. Alone, not as good, "Oh, but the fudge melts the ice cream." "Yeah, but the ice cream mellows out the heat and sharpness of the fudge."

Figure out the power exchange however you want, but it really should be much less about keeping score and more about the yummy.

 

[Brosco]

Eventually this comes down to - "Who has the power in a hot fudge sundae, the hot fudge or the ice cream?"

Uh...it's yummy? The combination, that is. Alone, not as good, "Oh, but the fudge melts the ice cream." "Yeah, but the ice cream mellows out the heat and sharpness of the fudge."

Figure out the power exchange however you want, but it really should be much less about keeping score and more about the yummy.

well said


damn i hate it when someone not only says it simpler than me - but so much damn better

 

[WriterDom]

Or maybe a highly paid management putting out an inferior product.

 

[FurryFury]

*smiles softly* Aren't you on your second marriage? Who pulled the plug on the first one? Did you leave him, or did he leave you?

Oh, he left. I don't leave. I just clean up the mess behind those that do. After 10 years together, with a baby that he asked for on the way, he left. It was quite a gift though. I'm way happier since he did. At first though I thought I would die if he left. That feeling lasted less than two hours. After that I dried my tears and felt relieved.

Fury

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I think the reference to using a safeword is very important in answering the question.

By having a safeword, the sub has the power to stop anything unacceptable from continuing. And conversely, not using the safeword is acceptance of what is happening. The Dom on the otherhand is the one in control of what happens. To me, that puts the power at around equal, but hard to measure because they come from different perspectives. If I was going to lean to one side on this, I would say that the sub has slightly more power.

And although someone said that a safeword is just for a scene, not the relationship - I would disagree, or at least how I feel it should be used. A safeword can be used at any time to clearly indicate that this is 'me' talking now, not the subbie, and should be respected as such. To use a very simple example - in a discussion about trying some new activity it could be made very clear that there was not the slightest interest in attempting this new idea, and avoid any misunderstanding that it was just a 'subbie protest'.

hmmm...we don't do the 'time out' thing ..if i have something to say about something, i say it, respectfully of course. and we deal with it. our safe word is for scenes only, it would be silly to me to call out our safe word in the middle of a conversation or whatever simply because i wanted to tell Him i object to something. and as HE's a Sadist, He doesn't normally 'care' if i'm not interested in trying out one of His 'new ideas' ...though if He tries it, and finds that i do NOT like it at all, well then we discuss it and He makes a decision on whether or not it will be used/done again.

i do agree that the 'power' seems to be a bit equal really, atleast for us. it's really hard to explain.

 

[catalina_francisco]

A safeword is no longer needed because there is the trust that limits would not be exceeded. A safeword isn't needed because you trust a partner so much that you have no doubts of him reading you.

Once again, this is only one view of why a safeword may not be in place. For us, I do not have the right to impose or trust him to keep within limits set by me, nor does his reading my reactions perfectly necessarily mean he will stop doing whatever he is doing if it has gone beyond pleasureable. Being a sadist, he usually ups the pace once he realises I am not in that state where I am mentally urging him on or totally in bliss with what he is dishing out.

Or do you recommend to all subbies on their journey of discovery to bypass the safeword stage?

Well if you had read any of my posts in regard to newbies you would know I always recommend they have and use safewords, and that few should ever plunge into the depths of no safeword unless they are doing so with eyes wide open, prepared for all outcomes, and willing to relinguish that control at all costs and outcomes.

Catalina

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Of course, one could also say that there are no rules to how we practice D/s, just different ideas that we share. So while I don't have any issue with you not seeing my implementation working for you - I still would like to see why you see problems with it as a general concept.

A simple example. I once told a sub I was going to publish a very personal thing that she wrote for me because I felt it was so good. She ranted, raved, screamed and eventually cried that I betrayed a trust - I simply asked her, if she felt that strongly, why not use a safeword?

If 'freedom of expression' is allowed in a relationship it can sometimes be confusing what is a 'subbie protest' and what is genuine until it is really pushed. I will add that I don't have that 'confusion' where I am at the moment, I know what is playful and and what is genuine - but it is not always clearly recognised in every relationship.

sorry, Brosco, normally i agree with you, but on this, if Master were to TELL me he was going to puplish something that *i* wrote i too would rant and rave and tell Him HE was betraying a trust. if it's something i wrote, then He should ASK, not TELL me He's going to publish it. and i shouldn't have to 'safe word' out of the situation. a safe word to me means ALL PLAY STOPS, the ropes come off, etc, and then we talk, not that i stop being 'submissive' so that i can chat 'normally' of my dislikes with Master. i don't understand your using a safeword to 'discuss' things in your relationship. i don't have a 'problem' with it i just wonder why you feel a safeword should be used in the middle of a conversation to show 'dislike' for something.

 

[catalina_francisco]

HUH????

If a person gives over a power, but has the right to take it back - how is it that I am the all so mighty powerful one?

You stated your sub has given you her power....never mentioned her taking it back. To me that is loaning, not giving....if you give someone a present for example, you do not usually come back in a year, week, day or so later and ask for it back do you? I don't think of power exchange as a gift, but it is a case where you are giving something and once anything is given, it is not often meant to be handed back unless it is more given temporarily on loan with the understanding it is not forever. In that case, the relationship for me would then begin to feel like it was on a temporary basis waiting for when the novelty wore off or one of the other partner wanted to move on...we are more into permanancy, but that is not everyone's cup of tea as everyone has different needs.

Catalina

 

[Recidiva]

You stated your sub has given you her power....never mentioned her taking it back. To me that is loaning, not giving....if you give someone a present for example, you do not usually come back in a year, week, day or so later and ask for it back do you? I don't think of power exchange as a gift, but it is a case where you are giving something and once anything is given, it is not often meant to be handed back unless it is more given temporarily on loan with the understanding it is not forever. In that case, the relationship for me would then begin to feel like it was on a temporary basis waiting for when the novelty wore off or one of the other partner wanted to move on...we are more into permanancy, but that is not everyone's cup of tea as everyone has different needs.

Catalina

I just really don't buy this. It's like someone stealing your "soul." No, sorry, you still have it. You may agree you "sold it to the devil" but you still have it. Same with your will. You have it because you are the one who can say "no" or "yes" or "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious."

Drawing up lines and agreements and a system so complicated that it looks like you can't say no, really doesn't count. The "no" always resides in the same place, just as the soul and will do. Abdication of power is still power, just, for some inexplicable reason, tamped down so far and buried so it doesn't appear to be true.

Voting on where it resides doesn't change the essence of will, it makes it appear to be true. That to me is self delusion and a need for an absolute, instead of a real reflection of reality.

 

[Netzach]

You left out the "don't really care" option.

I can dice this a million times with the keen knife of analysis, but the bottom line is that different people who submit to me will do whatever I ask to different points. I don't really care where their boundaries are when more often than not I am gettting what I want out of the deal. I'm a pragmatic at heart.

I also am not a literalist, about religion or philosophy. I think it takes all the poetry and everything worthwhile out of doing this if I'm going to point out the five or six things someone won't actually do for me when they look me in the eye and say "I'd do anything for you."

 

[Netzach]

sorry, Brosco, normally i agree with you, but on this, if Master were to TELL me he was going to puplish something that *i* wrote i too would rant and rave and tell Him HE was betraying a trust. if it's something i wrote, then He should ASK, not TELL me He's going to publish it. and i shouldn't have to 'safe word' out of the situation. a safe word to me means ALL PLAY STOPS, the ropes come off, etc, and then we talk, not that i stop being 'submissive' so that i can chat 'normally' of my dislikes with Master. i don't understand your using a safeword to 'discuss' things in your relationship. i don't have a 'problem' with it i just wonder why you feel a safeword should be used in the middle of a conversation to show 'dislike' for something.

When your SM activity encompasses the emotional as well as the physical this makes sense to me. There's no way I would not publish something because H whined or ranted or acted pissy. I'd be much more inclined to do it. If he genuinely thought he was going to be traumatized for life over it and safeworded (we don't have one, but conveyed that to me for realz) I might hesitate and find out what's really up.

(I'd still probably override these objections and do it, in a way that would keep any eventual shit from getting on him - which he knows I'd do in the first place)