Who has the power in a D/s relationship?

[Marquis]

I don't think she even sees the problem she has Reci.

I think she has a far greater understanding of her situation than you do.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Personally, no. I don't know you personally. The fact that you give up your free will up to and including pride in the fact that if you did call the cops on him he'd kill you. That tells me that this isn't a lifestyle, it's an instability in you psychologically. I've seen girls get very badly hurt by trying to live the life you're so proud of. They would realize that the man was an abuser and when they tried to get away the man hurt them so badly that it's doubtful if they'll ever have a normal relationship again. Can you imagine getting away from him only to never be able to let anyone touch you again?

One of the two girls I know that have had this happen suicided afterwards. She'd flinch and break into tears whenever anyone touched her. She snapped and ended herself. That's my "Obituary fetish" hun. I don't like seeing women set themselves up for this kind of thing.

have you ever opened your mind to the possibility that a relationship structure/dynamic that may be damaging and destructive to some, could actually be freeing and enriching to others? there is a way and a path for us all, the key is finding that way and embracing it, even when it doesn't fit with what us well-known, popular, or PC.

i would never claim that the way i live is "the" way for all, i've seen and heard my own share of horror stories involving submissives and slaves who thought this was their path, only to discover far too late that it was not.

it doesn't worry or frighten me thinking of what he would do if i attempted to leave him, or what sort of relationship i could have with someone after being with my Master. first, because i have no desire to leave him, or to ever belong to anyone else. but more importantly, it brings me peace and security to know that if things were to change and i did wish to leave, that he would not allow me to do so. if i were in a relationship where i could say "no" and no harm would befall me...if i could run away with ease and wake to see another sunrise...then my entire existence would feel insecure, unstable, unbalanaced, false, and utterly meaningless.

 

[Recidiva]

have you ever opened your mind to the possibility that a relationship structure/dynamic that may be damaging and destructive to some, could actually be freeing and enriching to others? there is a way and a path for us all, the key is finding that way and embracing it, even when it doesn't fit with what us well-known, popular, or PC.

i would never claim that the way i live is "the" way for all, i've seen and heard my own share of horror stories involving submissives and slaves who thought this was their path, only to discover far too late that it was not.

it doesn't worry or frighten me thinking of what he would do if i attempted to leave him, or what sort of relationship i could have with someone after being with my Master. first, because i have no desire to leave him, or to ever belong to anyone else. but more importantly, it brings me peace and security to know that if things were to change and i did wish to leave, that he would not allow me to do so. if i were in a relationship where i could say "no" and no harm would befall me...if i could run away with ease and wake to see another sunrise...then my entire existence would feel insecure, unstable, unbalanaced, false, and utterly meaningless.

And that's your chosen value system.

It'd be like me telling a Christian that it's their choice to believe in Christ or Heaven. Their life might be meaningless without it. But the power to believe is theirs.

I don't really see that we're disagreeing, I think the term "power" clearly for the discussion is being used with multiple definitions.

 

[callinectes]

have you ever opened your mind to the possibility that a relationship structure/dynamic that may be damaging and destructive to some, could actually be freeing and enriching to others? there is a way and a path for us all, the key is finding that way and embracing it, even when it doesn't fit with what us well-known, popular, or PC.

i would never claim that the way i live is "the" way for all, i've seen and heard my own share of horror stories involving submissives and slaves who thought this was their path, only to discover far too late that it was not.

it doesn't worry or frighten me thinking of what he would do if i attempted to leave him, or what sort of relationship i could have with someone after being with my Master. first, because i have no desire to leave him, or to ever belong to anyone else. but more importantly, it brings me peace and security to know that if things were to change and i did wish to leave, that he would not allow me to do so. if i were in a relationship where i could say "no" and no harm would befall me...if i could run away with ease and wake to see another sunrise...then my entire existence would feel insecure, unstable, unbalanaced, false, and utterly meaningless.

OSG, A question if you don't mind. I'm kind of hijacking to put it here but this is something I have been wondering about for a while and since you are around today I thought I'd ask. (what a run-on sentence!) I understand your situation with regards to household business matters (finances, insurance, etc). If God forbid, your Master was temporarily injured and unable to speak for himself, who would be responsible for medical decisions? Would that be you or a member of his family? Strictly a curiosity question, nothing else.

 

[pink]

OSG, A question if you don't mind. I'm kind of hijacking to put it here but this is something I have been wondering about for a while and since you are around today I thought I'd ask. (what a run-on sentence!) I understand your situation with regards to household business matters (finances, insurance, etc). If God forbid, your Master was temporarily injured and unable to speak for himself, who would be responsible for medical decisions? Would that be you or a member of his family? Strictly a curiosity question, nothing else.

You may hi-jack all you want. It is good to hear different ideas from different people and if it ventures away from the original post, it doesnt' hurt anyone.

 

[Wyldfire]

I'm going to just walk away from this debate. I won't tell anyone they're wrong even if I have seen the aftermath of this kind of "life style". To me it seems like a death style but that's just me from the responses I have seen here. Have fun enabling someone in a bad place folks.

 

[Recidiva]

I'm going to just walk away from this debate. I won't tell anyone they're wrong even if I have seen the aftermath of this kind of "life style". To me it seems like a death style but that's just me from the responses I have seen here. Have fun enabling someone in a bad place folks.

I'm all for enlightened self interest.

 

[ownedsubgal]

OSG, A question if you don't mind. I'm kind of hijacking to put it here but this is something I have been wondering about for a while and since you are around today I thought I'd ask. (what a run-on sentence!) I understand your situation with regards to household business matters (finances, insurance, etc). If God forbid, your Master was temporarily injured and unable to speak for himself, who would be responsible for medical decisions? Would that be you or a member of his family? Strictly a curiosity question, nothing else.

that would be a relative, his brother actually. there's no situation in which i'd have legal/financial power over him or anyone else. but i'm curious as to why you were curious?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I just really don't buy this. It's like someone stealing your "soul." No, sorry, you still have it. You may agree you "sold it to the devil" but you still have it. Same with your will. You have it because you are the one who can say "no" or "yes" or "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious."

Drawing up lines and agreements and a system so complicated that it looks like you can't say no, really doesn't count. The "no" always resides in the same place, just as the soul and will do. Abdication of power is still power, just, for some inexplicable reason, tamped down so far and buried so it doesn't appear to be true.

Voting on where it resides doesn't change the essence of will, it makes it appear to be true. That to me is self delusion and a need for an absolute, instead of a real reflection of reality.

For one thing I don't really buy into the selling your soul to the devil argument as it really doesn't feature as a reality in my world. Defining wording is a thing with me.....if someone says they are giving me something, and nothing else, I am not going to be wondering when they are coming back to retrieve it, or if they even will, I will assume it is now mine. Same thing with the lifestyle we live....I gave over complete control to him and gave him my power...that may not sound real to you, but for us it is very real and not a tempoorary arrangement until something better comes along. Everyone has their own choice of how their relationship is lived, this is our choice and no less real than someone who wants to retain some control and power through the existance and possible use of a safeword...doesn't mean we have to live by that example.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Your last statement just made me cringe. "I'd probably still override these objections."

There would be no way to keep eventual shit from getting on him. By your very choice to override his fears you've raped him. Plain and simple. He said no and you did it anyway. There's NO TRUST in this. Plain and simple. You've proven his opinion means shit and that he is simply a toy to you. Good way to lose playmates real quick. A relationship especially a D/S one has to have trust. If the sub can't trust the Dom/Domme to respect their limits then there will never be the level of trust to make it work.

LOL, actually to the contrary, most of the longest running and secure relationships I know of exist on this dynamic and last because of it. The fact is the submissive in these situations does have an enormous amount of trust...they don't seek to control through relying their wishes will always be catered to over the Dominants, and they know that whatever happens, their Dominant will be there and that is all that really matters, that the Dominant is free to dominate and that they will do what they feel is best, not what the submissive demands.

Catalina

 

[Wyldfire]

LOL, actually to the contrary, most of the longest running and secure relationships I know of exist on this dynamic and last because of it. The fact is the submissive in these situations does have an enormous amount of trust...they don't seek to control through relying their wishes will always be catered to over the Dominants, and they know that whatever happens, their Dominant will be there and that is all that really matters, that the Dominant is free to dominate and that they will do what they feel is best, not what the submissive demands.

Catalina

B.S. responses like this are a big reason that while I enjoy playing in the lifestyle I will never live it 24/7........... Disrespect my limits I cut nuts off in your sleep or sew your vaggie shut..........

Trying to declare that it works best when the Dominant is in total control of the sub and can do with the sub anything they wish is nonsense. People have free will no matter what. No one can ever totally relinquish their free will. EVER.

 

[Recidiva]

For one thing I don't really buy into the selling your soul to the devil argument as it really doesn't feature as a reality in my world. Defining wording is a thing with me.....if someone says they are giving me something, and nothing else, I am not going to be wondering when they are coming back to retrieve it, or if they even will, I will assume it is now mine. Same thing with the lifestyle we live....I gave over complete control to him and gave him my power...that may not sound real to you, but for us it is very real and not a tempoorary arrangement until something better comes along. Everyone has their own choice of how their relationship is lived, this is our choice and no less real than someone who wants to retain some control and power through the existance and possible use of a safeword...doesn't mean we have to live by that example.

Catalina

No, it sounds real enough. Again, I'm not talking emotions, I'm talking mechanics.

I'm not saying it's not real. I was dissecting the question from the "power" question and trying to point out why I come to my conclusions about using the metaphor of power exchange, hot fudge sundaes, circuits...

It's a thought experiment for me to get to a model I can agree on. Some people agree with my models, some people say "that's not right."

They can't quite explain why that's not right, to my satisfaction, though.

To me, again, let me choose another analogy. You have invested value into the relationship you have, I get that. This truly isn't a judgment thing. I'm trying to separate out the motive from the mechanic.

You have to understand that your argument here, calling all other relationships "temporary" unless they make that kind of commitment, is a value thing. Your value. To me, all relationships are completely dependent on how well everyone keeps up their side of the bargain. And everyone has a side to the bargain and something to keep up.

I'm not saying your values aren't valid, I'm saying they're totally your values. They don't apply to others, who might be just as devoted, but live for the "now" and don't consider their situation to be temporary or less devoted. Merely that they belong in a very changeable system.

I used to tell my husband that if he ever decided to leave me...just snap my neck, okay? It was romantic, it was heartfelt, it was my truth.

Over time, I thought..man, that's a lot of pressure. You know what? I want him to be happy. I don't want him to feel he has to stay with me or commit murder to make me happy or feel secure. I let him off the hook. "You know, I don't really want you to murder me. I kinda like you. I don't want you facing murder charges. If you need to go, go. I won't like it, but I want you to be happy." "It's okay, honey, I love you too much to kill you, and I want you to be happy too."

It really all depends on your values. You value passion, pain, ease, comfort, friendship? It's up to you and your partner.

That, again, is my truth. Just as you don't like to be judged, you can probably see that you're judging other, less "permanent" relationships as somehow inferior in your value system. I don't think people can escape thinking their values are better. I'm just making the distinction that the things we value, like money, are valueable and used in exchange with others, because those people share our values and agree on it. Otherwise, to some other people, you're playing with Monopoly money.

I try to honor and value other people's value systems, and understand them. I don't, however, buy into the idea that all things are of equal value just because someone likes them. Or I'd totally be waving the flag for "Go Pedophiles!"

I also can't escape the idea that someone who is asking the question "who has more power" is really jockeying for being in the best power position, and wants to "win" And has issues on the subject they're trying to work out.

It's like asking "What's the best way to tie your shoes?"

Okay, someone has shoe issues. I don't share them.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Of course my situation is ridiculous. It's on purpose.

And so in presenting something ridiculous, what do you gain?

My general point is that although you arrive by stages, to having the power exchange you describe, it was done consensually, and by stages, and had as much to do with you having your needs met as him having his needs met. Your needs involve things being this way. If your needs were no longer met in any way, shape or form, very likely your happiness with the situation changes.

At that point, people begin extricating themselves and gaining their power back, taking back the consent and taking back their choices.

It's not strictly D/s, that's any contract or arrangement.

Without the arrangement, though, which involves your choice, it's meaningless.

That's why a guy or girl can't walk out onto a public street, snap their fingers, and have a random person of their choice follow them home, a will-less slave.

It's done in stages, and by consent. So is the reversal process. The retraction of consent.

Once again, it depends on the terms of the relationship. I won't speak for osg as she is more than capable of doing that herself, and very well, but for our relationship I would not agree it was done in stages, at least not a long and prolonged process aimed at proving to me I could rely on him to do xyz and nothing in the realm of abc, so I could feel free to give over my power. I chose to do it within a couple of months of our meeting, and also did it with his cautionary lectures about how by giving up control I was freeing him to do whatever he chose with me and our relationship.

Contrary to what you say, there have been many things he has done or demanded which I do not enjoy, or find easy to obey, some I could even say make me physically ill, but that does not then mean I begin to think of leaving, or I am unhappy and take my power back, it means I work harder at pleasing and recognising this was the choice I made and will live with. Unlike osg, I don't even have the priviledge of begging for release if I decided that was what I preferred...he has made it clear that release will never be an option and to even ask would be an insult and worthy of punishment of the harshest form. I have no doubt as to what lengths he would do to keep me under his control should I try to threaten that state. He doesn't bother with idle threats for effect....what he says would happen is very real and is only reinforcing the terms of what was agreed to when we entered a TPE relationship.

Catalina

 

[Recidiva]

And so in presenting something ridiculous, what do you gain?

Once again, it depends on the terms of the relationship. I won't speak for osg as she is more than capable of doing that herself, and very well, but for our relationship I would not agree it was done in stages, at least not a long and prolonged process aimed at proving to me I could rely on him to do xyz and nothing in the realm of abc, so I could feel free to give over my power. I chose to do it within a couple of months of our meeting, and also did it with his cautionary lectures about how by giving up control I was freeing him to do whatever he chose with me and our relationship.

Contrary to what you say, there have been many things he has done or demanded which I do not enjoy, or find easy to obey, some I could even say make me physically ill, but that does not then mean I begin to think of leaving, or I am unhappy and take my power back, it means I work harder at pleasing and recognising this was the choice I made and will live with. Unlike osg, I don't even have the priviledge of begging for release if I decided that was what I preferred...he has made it clear that release will never be an option and to even ask would be an insult and worthy of punishment of the harshest form. I have no doubt as to what lengths he would do to keep me under his control should I try to threaten that state. He doesn't bother with idle threats for effect....what he says would happen is very real and is only reinforcing the terms of what was agreed to when we entered a TPE relationship.

Catalina

By presenting something ridiculous I amuse myself and attempt to provide a less emotionally-charged example, displaying my weird imagination.

The fact that both you and OSG have no doubts you'd get killed or hurt if you attempted to leave, or that you've done things that make you physically ill, doesn't give me much hope that you're in control of your own ethics, morals or personal responsibility. And those are things I think are important to hold onto. If you don't, okay. But that leaves us with very little to discuss in terms of what I consider to be a reasonable adult who is capable of making reasonable choices regarding ethics or safety, and this isn't a discussion, it's The Word from a true believer.

I believe in freedom. If you don't have it or gave it away, that's your right and your choice. I just don't respect it, and you don't need me to, so in the end we're both happy.

 

[catalina_francisco]

No, I don't think it's about obituaries, and I'm not disagreeing. I've had this conversation with any number of people about any number of subjects.

"But, I have no choice!"

Sure you do. There's even an alternate to breathing, it's called suicide.

This isn't a D/s thing. It's a human thing.

And I'm afraid some of the D/s "but, we love each other sooo much and this is how we show it!" sounds kinda like a teenager with a crush. "Our love is sooo much better than yours! SOOOO big! You wouldn't understand!"

Bullshit. Some of it's just because people like demonstrable proof of something. But consensual "proof", just like votes, doesn't mean it's real. Life itself and the full course of your life, is the proof.

I wish happiness to everyone who is in their state voluntarily and happy as they can be. But I get really tired of the iron man "I love/am loved more because I suffer more" stuff.

Nah.

See this is what always puzzles me in these discussions...this assertion from people that because you live a lifestyle choice different to them, you are saying you and your relationship is better when actually they are the ones who utter those statements and also continue to try and point out why their way is better. . I didn't see anywhere that osg said that her relationship was better, nor have I, but for us it is what works. For me it was the only way I ever envisioned living this lifestyle and being happy, but that realisation always was accompanied by the knowledge it would not be easy and would not be everyone's choice. Yes, I consented to it just as osg did, but I am not a wishy washy person who says one thing one day and the opposite the next simply because that is my mood on that day so revoking and regiving consent is what to me would fall into the catagory you describe as teenage crush behaviour. If you can't give consent to this extent, by all means don't and I will be the first to agree that is the best choise, but don't try and make everyone else ride the same wagon for company or face ridicule and/or suspicion whether their life is real.

Catalina

 

[Recidiva]

See this is what always puzzles me in these discussions...this assertion from people that because you live a lifestyle choice different to them, you are saying you and your relationship is better when actually they are the ones who utter those statements and also continue to try and point out why their way is better. . I didn't see anywhere that osg said that her relationship was better, nor have I, but for us it is what works. For me it was the only way I ever envisioned living this lifestyle and being happy, but that realisation always was accompanied by the knowledge it would not be easy and would not be everyone's choice. Yes, I consented to it just as osg did, but I am not a wishy washy person who says one thing one day and the opposite the next simply because that is my mood on that day so revoking and regiving consent is what to me would fall into the catagory you describe as teenage crush behaviour. If you can't give consent to this extent, by all means don't and I will be the first to agree that is the best choise, but don't try and make everyone else ride the same wagon for company or face ridicule and/or suspicion whether their life is real.

Catalina

And "wishy washy" is respectful of other people's choices how?

 

[catalina_francisco]

B.S. responses like this are a big reason that while I enjoy playing in the lifestyle I will never live it 24/7........... Disrespect my limits I cut nuts off in your sleep or sew your vaggie shut..........

Trying to declare that it works best when the Dominant is in total control of the sub and can do with the sub anything they wish is nonsense. People have free will no matter what. No one can ever totally relinquish their free will. EVER.

From reading what you have written on this topic I suspect you either have experience mostly with people who share your ideal of what the lifestyle should be, as in playing is the way to go, or you have been so shocked by the few incidents you mention which were on the more harsher end of things that you have a biased view of anything which doesn't fit with what you like. Either way, it is saying do it my way or your a loser who doesn't know anything and has no brains and that really lacks meat IMHO. So you like to play only, you like to pretend from time to time you are powerless and at the mercy of another until it is time to pack up and go home, doesn't mean we all do.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

And "wishy washy" is respectful of other people's choices how?

Wishy washy is how I feel it is to be someone who continually changes their mind...and most people think the same unless they are those people who are contiunually changing their minds and basically considered highly unreliable for any word they give on anything. It is not a judgement, it is a fact....if you say you will do something for someone, then don't follow through or call to say you changed your mind, then call back and say, actually I will do it, and then call back and say you don't want to, and then call back and say it really is OK..you get the picture, just like giving consent and then retracting it and then giving it again, retracting again..it sort of makes it hard to know when you can be believed, when you can be relied on. I can't be like that or with someone who is.

Catalina

 

[Recidiva]

Catalina, you're just as judgmental of others, if not more so, and you're waving the flag of "don't judge me."

Although I'm a real proponent of personal freedom, you sound like the same end-story of abused people that can't escape. I'm glad you're enjoying it, at least. I totally get that you do.

I just don't see much difference in you calling other people "wishy washy" or "flip flopper" to take a current political phrase, and I really, don't see the ultimate value in "stay the course" in a political or a social context, when life offers many opportunities to veer off course. And apparently you can't chart the course, can't view the course, comment on the course, and even if the course makes you ill, you'll do it. I can't get behind that. And I would say, it's not because I disagree with "the lifestyle" - it's because I disagree with people ditching personal responsibility and thinking that being cozy and safe there makes up for all that.

May you be happy, may you always be on course. But please don't interpret concern for your ultimate safety as disapproval or someone who just doesn't get it. I get it. I just disagree. And comprehension doesn't equal approval. And disapproval doesn't equal lack of comprehension.

Obviously you don't get me either. That's fine. But I'm not worried about where I'm heading.

Since this is the internet, and I'm not in any way in any level of authority or power in your life, all I have is the ability to express concern, listen to your disdainful dismissal of a "wishy washy nonbeliever" and move on.

I know it's an insult to express such concern to some people, for the above-stated reasons. So I'll just continue to express how I feel about what I feel, and let the rest go.

 

[catalina_francisco]

No, it sounds real enough. Again, I'm not talking emotions, I'm talking mechanics.

I'm not saying it's not real. I was dissecting the question from the "power" question and trying to point out why I come to my conclusions about using the metaphor of power exchange, hot fudge sundaes, circuits...

It's a thought experiment for me to get to a model I can agree on. Some people agree with my models, some people say "that's not right."

They can't quite explain why that's not right, to my satisfaction, though.

To me, again, let me choose another analogy. You have invested value into the relationship you have, I get that. This truly isn't a judgment thing. I'm trying to separate out the motive from the mechanic.

You have to understand that your argument here, calling all other relationships "temporary" unless they make that kind of commitment, is a value thing. Your value. To me, all relationships are completely dependent on how well everyone keeps up their side of the bargain. And everyone has a side to the bargain and something to keep up.

I'm not saying your values aren't valid, I'm saying they're totally your values. They don't apply to others, who might be just as devoted, but live for the "now" and don't consider their situation to be temporary or less devoted. Merely that they belong in a very changeable system.

I used to tell my husband that if he ever decided to leave me...just snap my neck, okay? It was romantic, it was heartfelt, it was my truth.

Over time, I thought..man, that's a lot of pressure. You know what? I want him to be happy. I don't want him to feel he has to stay with me or commit murder to make me happy or feel secure. I let him off the hook. "You know, I don't really want you to murder me. I kinda like you. I don't want you facing murder charges. If you need to go, go. I won't like it, but I want you to be happy." "It's okay, honey, I love you too much to kill you, and I want you to be happy too."

It really all depends on your values. You value passion, pain, ease, comfort, friendship? It's up to you and your partner.

That, again, is my truth. Just as you don't like to be judged, you can probably see that you're judging other, less "permanent" relationships as somehow inferior in your value system. I don't think people can escape thinking their values are better. I'm just making the distinction that the things we value, like money, are valueable and used in exchange with others, because those people share our values and agree on it. Otherwise, to some other people, you're playing with Monopoly money.

I try to honor and value other people's value systems, and understand them. I don't, however, buy into the idea that all things are of equal value just because someone likes them. Or I'd totally be waving the flag for "Go Pedophiles!"

I also can't escape the idea that someone who is asking the question "who has more power" is really jockeying for being in the best power position, and wants to "win" And has issues on the subject they're trying to work out.

It's like asking "What's the best way to tie your shoes?"

Okay, someone has shoe issues. I don't share them.

Once again, you are the one asserting we have said our way is better, our way is badder etc., not us and yet you calin it is what we are saying. We both have said it is better for us, certainly not for everyone, and in fact I caution people who are thinking of taking the same path to think carefully before taking the step if they are in the slightest way meaning is seriously. Your example about your marriage was fine, except you are the one who in that situation made the choices, set the ground rules so to speak by first telling him he would have to kill you if he didn't want you, then telling him you had rethought it and you would be happy to let him go...you took control and told him what he could do...how is that different from the reality osg and I live in that our Owners are the ones who say what goes in terms of the longevity and possible ending of the relationship? I don't see much difference except in your case you made sure it was your word that ruled (or at least you believed it did, maybe he didn't take you seriously, I don't know), and in ours we accept it is our Owners word that rules.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Catalina, you're just as judgmental of others, if not more so, and you're waving the flag of "don't judge me."

Although I'm a real proponent of personal freedom, you sound like the same end-story of abused people that can't escape. I'm glad you're enjoying it, at least. I totally get that you do.

I just don't see much difference in you calling other people "wishy washy" or "flip flopper" to take a current political phrase, and I really, don't see the ultimate value in "stay the course" in a political or a social context, when life offers many opportunities to veer off course. And apparently you can't chart the course, can't view the course, comment on the course, and even if the course makes you ill, you'll do it. I can't get behind that. And I would say, it's not because I disagree with "the lifestyle" - it's because I disagree with people ditching personal responsibility and thinking that being cozy and safe there makes up for all that.

May you be happy, may you always be on course. But please don't interpret concern for your ultimate safety as disapproval or someone who just doesn't get it. I get it. I just disagree. And comprehension doesn't equal approval. And disapproval doesn't equal lack of comprehension.

Obviously you don't get me either. That's fine. But I'm not worried about where I'm heading.

Since this is the internet, and I'm not in any way in any level of authority or power in your life, all I have is the ability to express concern, listen to your disdainful dismissal of a "wishy washy nonbeliever" and move on.

I know it's an insult to express such concern to some people, for the above-stated reasons. So I'll just continue to express how I feel about what I feel, and let the rest go.

No, I don't see any proof you get it. As to abuse.... I am not abused and probably have more frontline experience of dealing first hand with abuse than you imagine. I also am not someone who needed to find someone to take care of me as I already raised my children alone, paid a mortgage alone all while living below the poverty line, went back to education and earned a degree, had a career that won me recognition nationwide in the field I worked in which happened to be abuse victims, have written academically about abuse and been published, also built a reputation in the world of feminism (personally, academically, professionally, and activist) where I gained admiration from some of the most respected feminists internationally, and I also chose to not be in a live-in relationship for about 16 years simply because I didn't need to and didn't find someone I wanted to do that with long term. During that whole time I was also the support person for my elderly parents.

I also made the choice to seek the exact type relationship I now have as opposed to stumbling across someone who lead me into it by any means they needed to, whether openly or manipulatively. In other words I made a valid and well thought out choice based on what I knew would work best for me after many relationships which were great but not enough to make me want to stay forever, and fantasies which dated back to about the age of 6, not someone convincing me this was what I needed. After I decided it was what I needed and wanted, I began looking for that person who shared the same vision and fortunately found him and guess what, he also is not stupid but has a well respected name internationally for what he does professionally and surprisingly for being one of the few people that others know personally and professionally will keep his word to them at any cost, and has ethics and honour others admire and rely on.

You don't get why I like it this way, because you couldn't like it, so then you decide I am judgemental for maintaining it is right for me and I am strong enough to know that, and so of course I must be lacking in morals, ethics, common sense and wonder of all wonders I am now abused and/or suffering from past abuse...how stereotypical of many who do not get it because they don't want it for themselves and don't agree with it based on that self made choice. Of course, no doubt this will also be seen as judgemental because the rules of the game are you should take what is dished out, the false accusations you have said your way is the best way, but don't dare defend yourself or state your values because that is making judgements of others.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Double post

Catalina

 

[callinectes]

that would be a relative, his brother actually. there's no situation in which i'd have legal/financial power over him or anyone else. but i'm curious as to why you were curious?

No real reason actually. I find your relationship interesting (now that I am over my silly shock reaction) and am curious about various facets of it. No hidden agenda. Just nosy I guess. LOL

 

[catalina_francisco]

BTW, if by choosing to risk your safety as in terms of a M/s relationship with no out clause, and to obey even if you would prefer not to means one is deficient in brain cells or suffering abuse mentality etc., what about those who choose to race motorcycles and cars, skydive, surf, join the armed forces...are they too suffering abuse mentality and obviously lacking in ethics, morals, and brains because they know they are taking risks but continue to do so, and in terms of armed forces, agree ahead of time that they will do whatever they are told, even stand on the frontline in the face of bombs, oncoming gunfire, attack etc?

Catalina

 

[Wyldfire]

BTW, if by choosing to risk your safety as in terms of a M/s relationship with no out clause, and to obey even if you would prefer not to means one is deficient in brain cells or suffering abuse mentality etc., what about those who choose to race motorcycles and cars, skydive, surf, join the armed forces...are they too suffering abuse mentality and obviously lacking in ethics, morals, and brains because they know they are taking risks but continue to do so, and in terms of armed forces, agree ahead of time that they will do whatever they are told, even stand on the frontline in the face of bombs, oncoming gunfire, attack etc?

Catalina

Apples and Oranges. The other people you mention don't give up their free will. A person in the military sign a contract giving themselves for a period of time to the military but even in that they have free will. If they cannot follow an order because of their morals or ethics then they don't obey the order and accept the consequences. What you and OSG are declaring is that you are property and property has no say in it's fate. You are pawning off your free will allowing yourselves to be "blame free". That has to be the biggest cop out I have ever heard. In the lifestyle you are describing you are free of any responsibility for your actions. The finger of any blame or responsibility goes to the Dom. How are you going to explain to the police when you're driving to the store and back and speeding because Master told you to do the errand as fast as possible? Are you going to say you're not responsible for your actions because you've given your free will to someone else? Are you going to tell the cop he can't give you a ticket because you were following your Master's orders?

I think what bugs me the most in all of this is the fact that it seems that you are advocating that you aren't responsible for any actions seeing as you have given up your free will. That in "giving yourself" to your Master you have cleared yourself of any and all responsibility for your actions.