Who has the power in a D/s relationship?

[Netzach]

Another thing I find weird - the "power" to walk if you don't like it really isn't that exhilerating in a relationship, or that much of a trump card.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

When your SM activity encompasses the emotional as well as the physical this makes sense to me. There's no way I would not publish something because H whined or ranted or acted pissy. I'd be much more inclined to do it. If he genuinely thought he was going to be traumatized for life over it and safeworded (we don't have one, but conveyed that to me for realz) I might hesitate and find out what's really up.

(I'd still probably override these objections and do it, in a way that would keep any eventual shit from getting on him - which he knows I'd do in the first place)

maybe ranting and raving was the wrong choice of words. but i would be upset, upset enough that, like you, He would take a step back and find out what's up. we just don't use a 'safe word' in normal conversations is all i was getting at. i would speak up and say how i felt, obviously if He chose to publish it anyway, then that's His decision but He has a right to know how i feel about something. i do know though, that He would not publish anything of mine without asking my permission first, we have talked about it before, so i guess it's a non issue anyway.

 

[ownedsubgal]

to the OP,

who truly has the power in a D/s relationship, depends entirely on the dynamics of the individual relationship. tho i would say that in most cases, the submissive ultimately holds the power as they have the right, power, and freedom to either refuse their Dominant or something, or terminate the relationship altogether.

however there are some D/s unions, primarily M/s, where the above does not apply, and the power rests firmly in the hands of the Dominant/Master. in my union with my Master, while i made the choice to give myself to him, it was with the understanding that that was to be my LAST choice, and that once i was his property all the cards were in his hands, so to speak. so i cannot take it upon myself to refuse him or leave him. if i could, then i would not consider myself a slave and never would have sought out this lifestyle.

issues like this one are one of the reasons why i dislike the term "power exchange", because for some of us, it doesn't really apply. i did not hand over power to my Master...rather the power was in no one's hands, he offered to take control, and i accepted.

 

[Wyldfire]

When your SM activity encompasses the emotional as well as the physical this makes sense to me. There's no way I would not publish something because H whined or ranted or acted pissy. I'd be much more inclined to do it. If he genuinely thought he was going to be traumatized for life over it and safeworded (we don't have one, but conveyed that to me for realz) I might hesitate and find out what's really up.

(I'd still probably override these objections and do it, in a way that would keep any eventual shit from getting on him - which he knows I'd do in the first place)

Your last statement just made me cringe. "I'd probably still override these objections."

There would be no way to keep eventual shit from getting on him. By your very choice to override his fears you've raped him. Plain and simple. He said no and you did it anyway. There's NO TRUST in this. Plain and simple. You've proven his opinion means shit and that he is simply a toy to you. Good way to lose playmates real quick. A relationship especially a D/S one has to have trust. If the sub can't trust the Dom/Domme to respect their limits then there will never be the level of trust to make it work.

 

[Wyldfire]

to the OP,

who truly has the power in a D/s relationship, depends entirely on the dynamics of the individual relationship. tho i would say that in most cases, the submissive ultimately holds the power as they have the right, power, and freedom to either refuse their Dominant or something, or terminate the relationship altogether.

however there are some D/s unions, primarily M/s, where the above does not apply, and the power rests firmly in the hands of the Dominant/Master. in my union with my Master, while i made the choice to give myself to him, it was with the understanding that that was to be my LAST choice, and that once i was his property all the cards were in his hands, so to speak. so i cannot take it upon myself to refuse him or leave him. if i could, then i would not consider myself a slave and never would have sought out this lifestyle.

issues like this one are one of the reasons why i dislike the term "power exchange", because for some of us, it doesn't really apply. i did not hand over power to my Master...rather the power was in no one's hands, he offered to take control, and i accepted.

See you in the obituaries eventually with that kind of beliefs.

 

[Wyldfire]

Another thing I find weird - the "power" to walk if you don't like it really isn't that exhilerating in a relationship, or that much of a trump card.

Sure it is. You've trumped a hazardous situation and get to live another day to find a true and trustworthy Dom/Domme.

 

[Recidiva]

to the OP,

who truly has the power in a D/s relationship, depends entirely on the dynamics of the individual relationship. tho i would say that in most cases, the submissive ultimately holds the power as they have the right, power, and freedom to either refuse their Dominant or something, or terminate the relationship altogether.

however there are some D/s unions, primarily M/s, where the above does not apply, and the power rests firmly in the hands of the Dominant/Master. in my union with my Master, while i made the choice to give myself to him, it was with the understanding that that was to be my LAST choice, and that once i was his property all the cards were in his hands, so to speak. so i cannot take it upon myself to refuse him or leave him. if i could, then i would not consider myself a slave and never would have sought out this lifestyle.

issues like this one are one of the reasons why i dislike the term "power exchange", because for some of us, it doesn't really apply. i did not hand over power to my Master...rather the power was in no one's hands, he offered to take control, and i accepted.

So, if he became gay, wanted your opinion about nail color shades and asked you to "girl talk" with him, you'd be fine with that? Forever?

I'm pretty sure you guys had agreements leading up to that final agreement.

The fact that you won't break an agreement, doesn't mean you can't.

 

[ownedsubgal]

So, if he became gay, wanted your opinion about nail color shades and asked you to "girl talk" with him, you'd be fine with that? Forever?

I'm pretty sure you guys had agreements leading up to that final agreement.

The fact that you won't break an agreement, doesn't mean you can't.

first, your question is ridiculous, as no one can "become" gay. however i will say that there is no potential situation/circumstance that would ever cause me to leave my Master of my own volition. only he can release me. i do have the privilege (not right) of begging for release, if i ever felt utterly hopeless and miserable, and no longer wished to be his. however not only can i not envision myself ever going there (just not my personality), but he has also made perfectly clear that he can't ever see himself releasing me, for any reason.

now your last statement is true....the fact that a person will not do something, does not mean that they cannot do it. however in my particular case, i would not, and could not.

 

[Recidiva]

first, your question is ridiculous, as no one can "become" gay. however i will say that there is no potential situation/circumstance that would ever cause me to leave my Master of my own volition. only he can release me. i do have the privilege (not right) of begging for release, if i ever felt utterly hopeless and miserable, and no longer wished to be his. however not only can i not envision myself ever going there (just not my personality), but he has also made perfectly clear that he can't ever see himself releasing me, for any reason.

now your last statement is true....the fact that a person will not do something, does not mean that they cannot do it. however in my particular case, i would not, and could not.

Of course my situation is ridiculous. It's on purpose.

My general point is that although you arrive by stages, to having the power exchange you describe, it was done consensually, and by stages, and had as much to do with you having your needs met as him having his needs met. Your needs involve things being this way. If your needs were no longer met in any way, shape or form, very likely your happiness with the situation changes.

At that point, people begin extricating themselves and gaining their power back, taking back the consent and taking back their choices.

It's not strictly D/s, that's any contract or arrangement.

Without the arrangement, though, which involves your choice, it's meaningless.

That's why a guy or girl can't walk out onto a public street, snap their fingers, and have a random person of their choice follow them home, a will-less slave.

It's done in stages, and by consent. So is the reversal process. The retraction of consent.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Recidiva,

believe me i hear you, but i don't think you're quite hearing me. of course i became a slave because that is what i truly longed for in life...of course i agreed to become slave to the Man who now owns me because i longed for him, and all the unique qualities that only he possessed. and of course being a slave to this Man fulfills me and has made me finally feel whole inside.

however if all that were to magically change, and i was miserable day in and day out, if he became an entirely different person, still, i would not take it upon myself to leave him. not only would i not leave him, but i would not cease being the best slave i could possibly be to him. i mentioned begging for release...if that remained an option, it's possible i could bring myself to do that under some extreme circumstance. however it is up to HIM and only him to decide whether or not i stay or go. the power lies in his hands. if he were to refuse me (which he has pretty much made clear that he would), then i would have no reasonable choice but to suck it up and continue on as his property. because my personal happiness is not what this relationship revolves around. there is no "reversal process" of consent in this relationship. i made the choice to be his. and i am his for as long as he wills it, period.

 

[Recidiva]

Recidiva,

believe me i hear you, but i don't think you're quite hearing me. of course i became a slave because that is what i truly longed for in life...of course i agreed to become slave to the Man who now owns me because i longed for him, and all the unique qualities that only he possessed. and of course being a slave to this Man fulfills me and has made me finally feel whole inside.

however if all that were to magically change, and i was miserable day in and day out, if he became an entirely different person, still, i would not take it upon myself to leave him. not only would i not leave him, but i would not cease being the best slave i could possibly be to him. i mentioned begging for release...if that remained an option, it's possible i could bring myself to do that under some extreme circumstance. however it is up to HIM and only him to decide whether or not i stay or go. the power lies in his hands. if he were to refuse me (which he has pretty much made clear that he would), then i would have no reasonable choice but to suck it up and continue on as his property. because my personal happiness is not what this relationship revolves around. there is no "reversal process" of consent in this relationship. i made the choice to be his. and i am his for as long as he wills it, period.

I get that. It doesn't change the fact that him having that choice, was your choice.

This is not personally about you, I don't intend to make you a target or make any judgment about your happiness or anything at all.

This is like diagramming a sentence. "There's the noun, there's the verb, there's the power, there's the choice."

Your situation was totally in your control.

You're describing something where if I were to make a comparison, you are saying your will was basically amputated and is gone.

You still seem pretty willful to me. Either way, even if you were completely miserable, you designed your cage and locked yourself in.

Very different from getting tossed into any old cage and never wanting to get out.

Your situation is consensual.

That's my test for a consensual arrangement. Do you know you did it? Did you at any point protest, attempt to call the police, attempt a restraining order? Do you love it? Okay, then.

 

[Wyldfire]

Recidiva,

believe me i hear you, but i don't think you're quite hearing me. of course i became a slave because that is what i truly longed for in life...of course i agreed to become slave to the Man who now owns me because i longed for him, and all the unique qualities that only he possessed. and of course being a slave to this Man fulfills me and has made me finally feel whole inside.

however if all that were to magically change, and i was miserable day in and day out, if he became an entirely different person, still, i would not take it upon myself to leave him. not only would i not leave him, but i would not cease being the best slave i could possibly be to him. i mentioned begging for release...if that remained an option, it's possible i could bring myself to do that under some extreme circumstance. however it is up to HIM and only him to decide whether or not i stay or go. the power lies in his hands. if he were to refuse me (which he has pretty much made clear that he would), then i would have no reasonable choice but to suck it up and continue on as his property. because my personal happiness is not what this relationship revolves around. there is no "reversal process" of consent in this relationship. i made the choice to be his. and i am his for as long as he wills it, period.

Reci, it's hopeless to try to make her understand. She's got it in her head that she wants to end up in the obituaries. Face it he could beat her into the E.R. and she'd crawl back to him to finish the job on her.

 

[Recidiva]

Reci, it's hopeless to try to make her understand. She's got it in her head that she wants to end up in the obituaries. Face it he could beat her into the E.R. and she'd crawl back to him to finish the job on her.

No, I don't think it's about obituaries, and I'm not disagreeing. I've had this conversation with any number of people about any number of subjects.

"But, I have no choice!"

Sure you do. There's even an alternate to breathing, it's called suicide.

This isn't a D/s thing. It's a human thing.

And I'm afraid some of the D/s "but, we love each other sooo much and this is how we show it!" sounds kinda like a teenager with a crush. "Our love is sooo much better than yours! SOOOO big! You wouldn't understand!"

Bullshit. Some of it's just because people like demonstrable proof of something. But consensual "proof", just like votes, doesn't mean it's real. Life itself and the full course of your life, is the proof.

I wish happiness to everyone who is in their state voluntarily and happy as they can be. But I get really tired of the iron man "I love/am loved more because I suffer more" stuff.

Nah.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Recidiva, where did i say my situation was not consensual? obviously it's consensual, because i consented to be his slave. and following our ways, that consent cannot be taken back. it is not that i "choose" not to take back consent, but rather that as a slave, the way we live and define it, once i make the final choice to become property, i am just that, and property cannot up and decide "eh, i don't feel like being owned anymore...see ya!" the Owner must decide whether or not he wishes to keep the property...and, getting back to the point of this topic, that leaves the power ultimately in the hands of the Owner.

you mentioned protesting...calling the police....running away, things of that nature. i would never do any of the above, however for argument's sake let's say that i did...that would change nothing. He would still own me, control me, and hold all the power. yes, if it's possible that police could come rushing to the scene, arrest him and put him behind bars...but knowing my Master, he'd be happily tried for murder, as they would not find a live body to testify against him once they arrived.

now, i fully understand that there are other types of D/s relationships which work very differently, and that for some (perhaps many) submissives, there is a comfort in knowing that ultimately they are the ones in control. that if they reach that breaking point, they can just say "enough!" and go, or refuse to submit any longer. however for me i find comfort in just the opposite...knowing that whether i wish to stay or go, whether i'm happy or sad, my life and destiny are in his hands. but of course the fact that i find comfort in it is just a nice bonus...if i did not, the reality of the situation would remain the same.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Wyldfire, just curious, but does something about me or the lifestyle i live offend you personally? also, what is it with the obituary fetish??

 

[Recidiva]

Okay, I take back the part where I said it wasn't about the obituaries.

 

[Marquis]

Who really has the power?

The person who has the strength of will to end the relationship.

So fucking true.

In any relationship, the party least interested in maintaining the relationship is going to dominate because they're less willing to compromise.

The rest of this shit is pretty much theatrics.

 

[Recidiva]

Recidiva, where did i say my situation was not consensual? obviously it's consensual, because i consented to be his slave. and following our ways, that consent cannot be taken back. it is not that i "choose" not to take back consent, but rather that as a slave, the way we live and define it, once i make the final choice to become property, i am just that, and property cannot up and decide "eh, i don't feel like being owned anymore...see ya!" the Owner must decide whether or not he wishes to keep the property...and, getting back to the point of this topic, that leaves the power ultimately in the hands of the Owner.

you mentioned protesting...calling the police....running away, things of that nature. i would never do any of the above, however for argument's sake let's say that i did...that would change nothing. He would still own me, control me, and hold all the power. yes, if it's possible that police could come rushing to the scene, arrest him and put him behind bars...but knowing my Master, he'd be happily tried for murder, as they would not find a live body to testify against him once they arrived.

now, i fully understand that there are other types of D/s relationships which work very differently, and that for some (perhaps many) submissives, there is a comfort in knowing that ultimately they are the ones in control. that if they reach that breaking point, they can just say "enough!" and go, or refuse to submit any longer. however for me i find comfort in just the opposite...knowing that whether i wish to stay or go, whether i'm happy or sad, my life and destiny are in his hands. but of course the fact that i find comfort in it is just a nice bonus...if i did not, the reality of the situation would remain the same.

Sounds like your master's an idiot, since being tried for assault has a lesser punishment than being tried for murder. But then again, maybe he's ultimately a masochist.

I get it, you're much dedicatederer and he's much badderer than my little brain can comprehend.

I'm sure the "nice bonus" is completely by accident.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Sounds like your master's an idiot, since being tried for assault has a lesser punishment than being tried for murder. But then again, maybe he's ultimately a masochist.

I get it, you're much dedicatederer and he's much badderer than my little brain can comprehend.

I'm sure the "nice bonus" is completely by accident.

silly me. i thought you were actually interested in an intelligent, courteous discussion. my mistake, won't happen again.

 

[Recidiva]

silly me. i thought you were actually interested in an intelligent, courteous discussion. my mistake, won't happen again.

Not a problem. I go either way.

I'm a conversation switch.

 

[Marquis]

osg, I just want to say I admire your patience.

 

[Wyldfire]

Wyldfire, just curious, but does something about me or the lifestyle i live offend you personally? also, what is it with the obituary fetish??

Personally, no. I don't know you personally. The fact that you give up your free will up to and including pride in the fact that if you did call the cops on him he'd kill you. That tells me that this isn't a lifestyle, it's an instability in you psychologically. I've seen girls get very badly hurt by trying to live the life you're so proud of. They would realize that the man was an abuser and when they tried to get away the man hurt them so badly that it's doubtful if they'll ever have a normal relationship again. Can you imagine getting away from him only to never be able to let anyone touch you again?

One of the two girls I know that have had this happen suicided afterwards. She'd flinch and break into tears whenever anyone touched her. She snapped and ended herself. That's my "Obituary fetish" hun. I don't like seeing women set themselves up for this kind of thing.

 

[Wyldfire]

Not a problem. I go either way.

I'm a conversation switch.

I don't think she even sees the problem she has Reci.

 

[Recidiva]

I don't think she even sees the problem she has Reci.

Well, to me it's simple. Power is a two-pole system. Flows from one to the other.

Without the poles (the people), and the conduit (the agreements between them) you got nothing.

So maybe what I consider to be power is really capacity to conduct or whatever. Doesn't matter, same system applies. It's still a cycle. Can't have one without the other.

There are people who say good's better than evil, evil's better than good, dom's better than sub, sub's better than dom...

Really, without one, you can't even measure the other. In fact, it won't exist. So this comes down to contrast and values and capacity.

It's all a circuit to me. If you conduct what would blow another person's circuits, fine. Still a circuit.

 

[pink]

i know there is a power exchange taking place, that is not even a question.


my point is, without the giving of a sub's power "the gift", there would be no power exchange in the first place.

i haven't take the time to read the entire thread but i totally trust my Sir. i know he would never push me too far but if he or any Dom ever abused me in a bad way, i would have the strength to leave. It is simply a matter of bounderies.