Why am I not allowed to question your lifestyle?

[seXieleXie]

in the bible hell is described as the absense of god. a firey pit of darkness. the hell you described is a more greco-roman model, the kind in the divine comedy. i wonder what religion our unregistered friend is.

 

[Never]

My life already has an absence of God, doesn't it? Perhaps a lack of God is like completely Darwinist sociology? The strong always lord over the weak?

 

[OldAllisWD45]

A Rambling thought on the word "Kinky"

My involvement in BDSM is limited to the bedroom, outside of it my Dom and I act just like any other couple, because we ARE any other couple. We just both like kinky sex.

What is Kinky??? Who decides what is kinky and what isnt?? Why is there a "stygma" surrounding those who enjoy so called "kinky sex"???

If you or I enjoy "kinky sex", (and I qualify kinky to mean what goes on between two consenting adults, not pedophelia, necrophelia, incest, rape or bestiality.) then why is it kinky???

Maybe it is so there is a "choice" out there. A deliniation between nilla and kinky. So that free thinking humans will be able to make a choice?? I dont know. And I have gotten away from my original pondering........

If we do it and we like it, and it is a part of our everyday lives, then why is it kinky, or even considered by some to be deviant? If it is part of our everyday lives then doesent that make it normal? If you follow that logic, then nilla is actually kinky and every one else who isn't "nilla" is "normal"..

Anyway....... Thank you for your patience, and forgiving my momentary hijacking of the thread. Sometimes I have to wonder about some of the things that wander through my brain at 4am.

 

[Never]

Oh, a post to sink my teeth into.

"What is Kinky???"
In most of the dictionaries I've glanced through it means 'perverted' or 'strikingly unconventional' – the majority of people tend to use it in its second sense.

Who decides what is kinky and what isnt??
If you're looking for one person, it's the person speaking. If you're looking for the group, it's everyone or whatever group you find yourself in. For instance, at college I had a hard time talking about anal sex with the women in my dorm. They assumed that anal was what guys liked to do with women; the idea that a woman would like it was 'strikingly unconventional' to them. If I posted here that I liked like someone to 'bend me over a fire hydrant and fuck my ass until I like it' (10 points to anyone who remembers that reference) I don't think anyone would blink an eye.

In one place it's kinky, in another it's quaint.


"Why is there a "stygma" surrounding those who enjoy so called "kinky sex"???"
I don't think there is. No, let me try again. I think that stigma isn't quite what you're thinking. People don't think of BDSM as kinky sex unless they treat it as a joke. Being considered 'kinky' gets you chuckled at behind your back and looked down upon by tight asses. You'll sometimes get the same expression talking about kinky sex as you would talking about eating escargot.

People tend to place 'real' BDSM (I hate reinforcing this type of thinking, hence the quotation marks) in a negative category quite a bit past kinky. In many people's mind BDSM is right down there with rape and bestiality. To clarify, no one is going to try and take my kids from me because I like anal sex. They might try to, however, if they hear that I enjoy being tied down and whipped.

"If you or I enjoy "kinky sex", (and I qualify kinky to mean what goes on between two consenting adults, not pedophelia, necrophelia, incest, rape or bestiality.) then why is it kinky???"
Because you realize that most people would consider your actions 'kinky'. I tend to have poor outside perspective and have bumped into the place were my normal continues but other's normal has ended. It's not pleasant.

"Maybe it is so there is a "choice" out there. A deliniation between nilla and kinky. So that free thinking humans will be able to make a choice?? I dont know. And I have gotten away from my original pondering........"
Vanilla sex can be kinky. It's just an expression; you don't need a label to know what you like in bed.


"If we do it and we like it, and it is a part of our everyday lives, then why is it kinky, or even considered by some to be deviant? If it is part of our everyday lives then doesent that make it normal? If you follow that logic, then nilla is actually kinky and every one else who isn't "nilla" is "normal".."
People judge what's deviant by their own everyday lives, not by your everyday life.
Again, not all vanilla sex is considered normal. Sexuality as at least 31 flavors.

 

[SpectreT]

Re: Re: Re: No threads should be deleted.

the flaming was uncalled for. i know that, just needed it to be noticed and its easier then thinking for a reasonable way to draw attention. what i can't believe is that i come here to do you a service by informing you that God does not look kindly on the type of things you are choosing to do and it gets ignored. even if those that read it happen to be athiests that does not mean you are exempt from the laws God has handed down through his prophets. God judges everyone and if what you are doing is a sin in the eyes of the Lord you should repent then change so you no longer sin. that and if law enforcement knew what some of you do to yourselves and your partners you would be thrown in jail for assault.

so please heed my message and think of what you are doing.

Sigh.

I was raised Catholic, then I read The Bible. Then I read everything I could find on the Roman Empire of that time, then I read a little bit on Jewish law of that time, and realized I was following a religion that thrived for a little over a thousand years on the kind of abuses its founder railed against. I am, by no means, a biblical scholar, but I don't recall reading specific prohibitions, even in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, against our "lifestyle".

That said, I'd like to see you and Todd-o-vision discuss this. It would be interesting.

As long as I trust in myself to be good and just, keep my heart and mind and soul open to all this life has to experience, with love in my heart, I am comfortable with my place in the afterlife.

Hell is for those who cannot forgive themselves, nor ask God for forgiveness.

Peace on you..... I mean Peace be with you, and may God's cudgel crack your skull and let some of his light in. And that was said with affection.

 

[CarolineOh]

According to the church I was raised in, I am already doomed to hell for getting divorced and using birth control, so I guess I can afford to get my ass whacked now and then.

 

[petrel]

Re: Re: Re: Re: No threads should be deleted.

As long as I trust in myself to be good and just, keep my heart and mind and soul open to all this life has to experience, with love in my heart, I am comfortable with my place in the afterlife.

Hell is for those who cannot forgive themselves, nor ask God for forgiveness.

Peace on you..... I mean Peace be with you, and may God's cudgel crack your skull and let some of his light in. And that was said with affection.

well said SpectreT as usual, and that really is my only response to this thread and the foolishness of organised religion

 

[Sandia]

Re: Re: Re: No threads should be deleted.

the flaming was uncalled for. i know that, just needed it to be noticed and its easier then thinking for a reasonable way to draw attention. what i can't believe is that i come here to do you a service by informing you that God does not look kindly on the type of things you are choosing to do and it gets ignored. even if those that read it happen to be athiests that does not mean you are exempt from the laws God has handed down through his prophets. God judges everyone and if what you are doing is a sin in the eyes of the Lord you should repent then change so you no longer sin. that and if law enforcement knew what some of you do to yourselves and your partners you would be thrown in jail for assault.

so please heed my message and think of what you are doing.

Yes, Yes, Yes! A religious person! Finally. (Oh, thank God!)

Some questions.

Genesis, Chapters 18 and 19. Was Lot a righteous person?

What about Abraham? Genesis, Chapter 20.

Jesus? Surely you know the "first stone" passage, don't you?

Have you ever read Ecclesiastes? Read the whole thing, and tell me what you think. How about chapter 9, verses 5 through 10? Chapter eight, verse 15?

The Song of Solomon?

Exodus 32, 25-29. Is this the God you worship?

Numbers, Chapter 31. Is it righteous to slaughter women and children?

Is polygamy a sin?

<sigh> The problem with Christians is they never read their Bible.


Oh, and cym: I've never had a post deleted. I feel so left out!

2.93%
Call me poster - boy again?


Sandia.

 

[Sandia]

Please?

And, why do all the good posts come out while I'm asleep?

And, I've also got a whole long thing on BDSM and the law, if anybody's interested.

Sandia.

 

[MissTaken]

Re: Re: Re: No threads should be deleted.

the flaming was uncalled for. i know that, just needed it to be noticed and its easier then thinking for a reasonable way to draw attention. what i can't believe is that i come here to do you a service by informing you that God does not look kindly on the type of things you are choosing to do and it gets ignored. even if those that read it happen to be athiests that does not mean you are exempt from the laws God has handed down through his prophets. God judges everyone and if what you are doing is a sin in the eyes of the Lord you should repent then change so you no longer sin. that and if law enforcement knew what some of you do to yourselves and your partners you would be thrown in jail for assault.

so please heed my message and think of what you are doing.

Your message would have been read and responded to if you had approached in a respectful manner.

Now, I do practice organized religion and am unclear as to what part of what I enjoy is going to damn me to hell.

I hurt no one.
I am a giving and patient person.
I am kind to others and live by the golden rule, even when it hurts.

I, thank God, everyday for his blessings and the beauty of the life I share with my children.

Now, there are facets of my activities that are "sinful." Having had sex with multiple partners of the course of my lifetime, is one.

Birth control, another biggie.

Marrying outside the Catholic church actually may be a saving grace as the marraige wasn't recognized by the church.

Thus said, how many lit members or adults in general have not committed the same sins.

Yes, my body is a temple and is pampered, nurtured and treated as such.

So, where have I gone wrong?

I am never perfect, but repentant and sorrowful for the times when I fail myself, my family and others.

Sp, again, why am I more likely to burn in hell than most, if not all the other members who visit this porn site?

Does God know you are here?

 

[Dragon Dreamer]

Re: Re: Re: No threads should be deleted.

the flaming was uncalled for. i know that, just needed it to be noticed and its easier then thinking for a reasonable way to draw attention. what i can't believe is that i come here to do you a service by informing you that God does not look kindly on the type of things you are choosing to do and it gets ignored. even if those that read it happen to be athiests that does not mean you are exempt from the laws God has handed down through his prophets. God judges everyone and if what you are doing is a sin in the eyes of the Lord you should repent then change so you no longer sin. that and if law enforcement knew what some of you do to yourselves and your partners you would be thrown in jail for assault.

so please heed my message and think of what you are doing.

Funny, my God says you are going to spend eternity swimming through a ocean of bullshit, for daring to have the audacity to say that your way is the absolute only way, and to have the nerve to think that you can possibly know the mind of a God. My God judges the judgemental.

 

[BBD]

Please?

And, why do all the good posts come out while I'm asleep?

And, I've also got a whole long thing on BDSM and the law, if anybody's interested.

Sandia.

I'm interested.

Excellent post with references, btw...if more people actually read the bible and took it as the literal word of god like they say they do, things would be very interesting.

 

[Frouwa_Aph]

Re: Re: Re: Re: No threads should be deleted.

Yes, Yes, Yes! A religious person! Finally. (Oh, thank God!)

Teehee, yeah, our first religious troll
Usually they are quite entertaining, lets see how this one will develop.
Well... the masos will love hell, and the sados will soon rise to staff.

On a more serious note: Methinks the troll is judging us. Doesn't the bible say that the judgement is gods alone?

Monika

 

[Kirabeth]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Sandia
Please?

And, why do all the good posts come out while I'm asleep?

And, I've also got a whole long thing on BDSM and the law, if anybody's interested.

Sandia.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm interested too Sandia, can you please give us the addy where we can read it as well or tell us where to find it.

Thanks kira

 

[cymbidia]

I am, as always, wildly impressed with us, with our intelligence, our ability to be amusedly tolerant, and our willingness to kindly offer an education in all things BDSM to those who really only want hurt or change us.

Y'all make me proud to be a pervert.

b.





(I'm sending Todd a PM on this thread. This is too good for him to miss.)

 

[KillerMuffin]

I'm seriously disappointed here. Vastly in fact.

The top of my screen says "SUPPORT FREE SPEECH ONLINE."

Laurel has gone out of her way to make sure that people can say what they want to say here at Literotica. She has very few rules about what's not acceptable. Some think, too few, but some of us think that the amount of freedom we have to say what we want here is priceless.

Well, everywhere except the BDSM forum.

The troll's post should not have been removed. It has just as much right to be here as anyone else does. It has just as much right to express its opinion on BDSM as much as anyone else does.

NO ONE has the right to silence it simply because they don't like what it has to say. Especially not here at Literotica where free speech is tantamount to sacred.

So they were insulting. You're big kids now, you should be able to shrug off an anonymously hurled insult. So the troll is trying to start a flame war. Well, you know what? It takes two sides to make a war. You don't want a flame war, don't play its game.

You were very wrong in what you did, cymbidia, and I'm extremely disappointed in you and in this forum. You're protecting your forum, true, but at what price? The very ethics that Laurel and Manu hold the most dear. Freedom of Speech.

I don't like censored boards and that's exactly what the BDSM forum is. A censored board where opinions that don't match what the community thinks to be acceptable are removed. This seems fine on the surface, but any place where dissention is not permitted is not a healthy place to be. Any place where socially acceptable opinions are all that are allowed is not a healthy place to be.

I would have thought that a counterculture like BDSM would have been vitally aware of that simply fact. Apparently all that's wanted is for others to accept BDSM, even though they think it's unacceptable, but BDSM doesn't want to accept what it considers unacceptable, even though it's someone's honest opinion.

I don't like dishonesty. I don't like censorship.

 

[WriterDom]

Laurel has a few rules, and I don't see a problem with cym modifying the rules in her forum. If you want a bdsm playground forum then create one. Most of us here don't.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Whatever, WD.

 

[Sandia]

I'm interested.

Excellent post with references, btw...if more people actually read the bible and took it as the literal word of god like they say they do, things would be very interesting.

Yes, BBD, I agree. A Christian who actually knows what's in the Bible is hard to find. And usually the more judgmental they are the less they know. <sigh> I have a feeling unregistered is not coming back, though. Good trolls are so hard to find... It'd be nice if he'd actually read the verses I took the time to post up there.


And cym, I'm disappointed too. I'm still waiting for you to call me poster -boy again... You know how much I like it...

Actually, I'm not disappointed. I mean, I'd have liked to have seen the posts too, but moderating is a tough job, and IMHO, it's important to cut some slack.

Edited to add: Besides, I haven't seen the posts, so I'm not in a position to judge, even if I was in a position to judge... which I'm not...

Sandia.

 

[Sandia]

A few thoughts on BDSM and the law:

Consent is generally a defense to prosecution in assault and assault related offenses. For example, in Texas, Penal Code section 22.06 says:

The victim's effective consent or the actor's reasonable belief that the victim consented to the actor's conduct is a defense to prosecution... (for assault and similar offenses)

This is why, for example, getting tackled in a game of football is not a criminal offense. A person who gets tackled in a game of football has consented to the actor's conduct in tackling him, by agreeing to play the game, knowing that getting tackled is part of it.

An assault, in Texas, again, is conduct that causes physical pain. There is no threshhold: any amount of pain is enough, as long as the actor causes it intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly, and the "victim" has not consented to the contact.

There are some limits to the doctrine of consent, however. You cannot claim "consent" if you hurt someone in a way that causes "substantial risk of death," (or that actually causes death), or that causes "serious permanent disfigurement," or disability. The state must still prove that you were acting at least recklessly at the time, however, as is generally the case in any criminal offense.

As you can see, anyone who practices SSC should be well within these limits.


Now the important stuff: As a practical matter, no one gets prosecuted for anything unless someone calls the law. I honestly can't stress this enough, because the converse is also true. While I can't imagine any of the prosecutors I know taking a case that involved SSC BDSM, you must remember that the law does not act independently of the people who enforce it and judge it. If you have bad cops, bad prosecutors, bad judges in your area, bad things can happen to you. (Actually, this is true whether you practice BDSM or not.)

Furthermore, if you're involved with someone who's willing to lie to the police, or commit perjury, bad things can happen to you. (Again, this is true whether you practice BDSM or not.)

Finally, you're always better off not getting involved in the system in the first place than getting in and then depending on laws and lawyers to get you back out again.

The best advice I can give is to choose your partner carefully. (This applies to everyone, actually, whether they're into BDSM or not.) I've not seen any BDSM cases (well, one, sorta), but I've seen a lot of domestic violence cases, so I speak from that which I know.

A couple of final notes: 1. none of this is meant to encourage or protect an abuser. If you're abusing someone, you belong in jail.

2. Nothing I've said is intended to discourage victims of abuse.

3. As I understand it, the law does not recognize contractual slave relationships. My understanding is that a person
always has the right to withdraw his or her consent, regardless of any "contracts" or anything else he or she may have signed or consented to.


This has been a public service announcement. It is not intended as advice for a particular person in a particular situation. Also, there's a chance the law in your state may vary somewhat from the law in Texas. (Though I doubt it.)

 

[monster666]

Oh, a paradox in the making! Whoooohoooo!

If God condemns masochists to hell, isn't he punishing them by giving them what they want? Wait - oh, nevermind.

Question.

A masochist dies and goes to hell and if hell were defined as being denied what you desire, would they end up in heaven? Would a masochist that God forgave be sent to hell to be lovingly tortured by angels who made certain to respect your limits?

 

[Sandia]

IMHO, heaven is a place where you're allowed to be bad...

 

[monster666]

"What is Kinky???"

Since you aren't exactly looking for a definition, I'll just use some examples of something you might do if you were kinky.

1. You might be kinky if you are female (or perhaps even kinkier if you are male) and wear mini vice-grips on your nipples under eveningwear.

2. You might be kinky if you'd rather watch midgets wrestle naked in the 69 position than win Wednesday night bingo, even if that's not everyone's kind of kink.

3. You might be kinky if your spouse goes white every time you reveal your latest sexual fantasy.

4. You might be kinky if you are female and slosh when you walk after catching up on the BDSM board at Lit.

5. You might be kinky if you are male and if after reading the BDSM board at lit you need to read a few MSNBC news articles before you can stand up without everyone in the internet cafe noticing your massive wood.

6. You might be kinky if you are male and are sporting massive wood in an internet cafe and stand up anyway hoping you will be noticed.


Who decides what is kinky and what isnt??

That's easy. cym does.

"Why is there a "stygma" surrounding those who enjoy so called "kinky sex"???"

There is? Who knew?

"If you or I enjoy "kinky sex", (and I qualify kinky to mean what goes on between two consenting adults, not pedophelia, necrophelia, incest, rape or bestiality.) then why is it kinky???"

Redundant Q, really, so I'll give a redundant A. It's kinky 'cause cym says so.

"Maybe it is so there is a "choice" out there. A deliniation between nilla and kinky. So that free thinking humans will be able to make a choice?? I dont know. And I have gotten away from my original pondering........"

Is that a question?

"If we do it and we like it, and it is a part of our everyday lives, then why is it kinky, or even considered by some to be deviant? If it is part of our everyday lives then doesent that make it normal? If you follow that logic, then nilla is actually kinky and every one else who isn't "nilla" is "normal".."

Again, a redundant Q. Again, a redundant A. It's kinky 'cause cym says so.


Disclaimer:

The cym referred to in this post is fictional, and in no way represents any real person, living or dead. Any resemblance to a real cym, living or dead, is purely coincidental, regardless of similarities, kinky qualifications, or readiness to ascertain kink quotients. The character cym referred to in this post is a fictionalized representation of a generalized collective understanding of what kink is, based on non-acceptance of an act sexual in nature by the 'nilla populace at large.

 

[monster666]

KM,

Normally I think you are square on target, but I am not so sure about this time.

I don't think that free speech means everyone necessarily has the right to say whatever they want wherever they want. If you don't think so, see if any judge in the land thinks you have the right to enter his courtroom, where constitutional rights are supposed to be ultimately protected, call him an ignorant asshole, and if he thinks you are exercising protected free speech. My guess is he would not. You are on his turf, you play by his rules. However, I am sure any judge would agree that you have the right to post any opinion you might have about him in any public newpaper, radio program or other legal medium at your disposal.

Free speech is about being allowed to get your opinion out there, but not by any and all means, and certainly not being by disruptive and hurtful. It's protects a newspaper's right to publish, not a readers perceived right to get content in.

This board is moderated my cym, risia and wd, and as such, the only free speech guarranteed is the collective free speech of cym, Risia and WD. Mine is not. If I want to say inflammatory things about an entire community, online or otherwise, I'd understand that and get my own soapbox, and not abuse theirs.

That said, I never read the deleted threads and have no clue if what was done was justified or not. But I respect cym, Risia and maybe even WD ::kidding WD:: enough to know that right or wrong, they'll do what they think is right for the board, and that's good enough for me. I won't accuse them of undue censorship or dishonesty. Even if you disagree with me 100% on what free speech and censorship are, you were a bit harsh with the mods here, don't you think?

I'm seriously disappointed here. Vastly in fact.

 

[Never]

Killer, you act as though Laurel was ignorant of the policies of the BDSM board's mods. Last time I checked, Laurel was the owner of the site and therefore had complete control over what is permissible to delete and not.

Now, if I were moding a G/L/B/T board would I have the same policy? Nope. Do I agree with it? No. Is it censorship? No. Is it well within the rights of Laurel, cym and any other mods? Yes.