Why am I not allowed to question your lifestyle?

[Sandia]

Q: "Do you think sex is dirty?" <---- Insert "kinky" here.

A: "Only when it's good."

--Woody Allen.

But I like Monster's answer too:

It's kinky 'cause cym says so.

And dammit, where'd Unregistered go? Isn't it just like an unregistered, to start something up, and then to disappear?

Sorta like some girls I know...


Oh, and an apologia. I didn't mean to offend with what I said about Christians up there. Some of my best friends are Christians. Really!


Cym, delete this, please.

 

[RisiaSkye]

The troll's post should not have been removed. It has just as much right to be here as anyone else does. It has just as much right to express its opinion on BDSM as much as anyone else does.

We set guidelines specifically to allow for the removal of such flames. They have been in place since the start of the old Mother thread, for exactly the reason that we (and I've been here since the beginning) didn't start this conversation in order to defend our sexual choices, but to discuss them with like minded people. It's not a question of censorship, it's one of direction.

I'm going to take the position I've seen YOU take in defense of Laurel in the past: Nobody's stopping Mr. Unregistered from saying what he wants, and he can flame BDSMers anywhere else on the site, on the web, and in the world that he likes. There's a difference between censorship and content control. Just because a place doesn't publish your work doesn't mean that they're censoring you.

I'm disappointed in you; I would expect you to know the difference.

You were very wrong in what you did, cymbidia, and I'm extremely disappointed in you and in this forum. You're protecting your forum, true, but at what price? The very ethics that Laurel and Manu hold the most dear. Freedom of Speech.

I don't like censored boards and that's exactly what the BDSM forum is. A censored board where opinions that don't match what the community thinks to be acceptable are removed. This seems fine on the surface, but any place where dissention is not permitted is not a healthy place to be. Any place where socially acceptable opinions are all that are allowed is not a healthy place to be.

1. cymbidia didn't do it, I did, as I both said and explained earlier in this very thread. Check your facts before you jump on the high horse.

2. If you don't like the way this forum is run, and you've already expressed your lack of experience with and empathy for the subject matter, please tell me--why are you still here?

You know I don't have anything against you, KM, and I've avoided calling you out about this for a long while, but your increasingly domineering attitude around here is inappropriate, particularly given your utter lack of experience or authority.


And you notice I didn't even delete you?

 

[MissTaken]

A possible response may have been to check with Laurel and move the inflammatory thread to another forum?

Thereby, protecting freedom of speech as well as the interests of the posts here.

To be honest, if unreg has concerns or opinions concerning the BDSM lifestyle, he has the right to express them. With free speech comes the responsiblity to utilize your right in a safe, responsible manner....regardless of whether you are on a sex site, in a court room or in a bar room. I realize that this thinking has fallen by the wayside in recent years and perhaps my belief dates me.

Geesh...it all goes back to the golden rule, doesn't it?

 

[Cirrus]

KM, I too normally think you're right on even if I don't agree with you, and I realize we're going to get into a (hopefully friendly) debate on opinion here, which is usually not winnable. But here's my take on it.

Complete and total free speech is great...in theory. But in practice, well, it doesn't always work so well. I was about to leave Lit until I found this forum. This is my safe haven of sorts. I came in asking a few questions about an area of my sexuality that's new to me, and I stuck around because this board is refreshing change of pace.

I, and of course, I can only speak for myself here, don't like the banality on the GB. To see thread upon thread of (((HUGS))) and the endless "list" threads just doesn't do it for me. I'm a cerebral person, and I like cerebral conversations. I find that here.

To get back to my original point, I've seen "free speech" to be what I consider grossly misapplied on the GB. Remember NSW's troll after her miscarriage and then during her pregnancy? Those posts were deleted. I don't know why, exactly. They should have been, IMO, they were needlessly malicious and merciless. To flame someone because you don't like their attitude is one thing...to wish their unborn baby dead is quite another. Personally, and I don't care if she reads this, I think she has the mental capacity of toilet paper, but she still deserves happiness, and to have a healthy family. So *I* don't like her. Big deal. I have enough maturity to wish her well as a fellow human if nothing else, despite the aspects of her I don't care for.

But yet, on the same hand, the constant trolling of Starfish, who I was just getting to know and become friends with, was left up. That was along the same lines...the "you're ugly/quit whining/I hope you die" kind of thing. I just don't get it. How is there any difference? I don't want to scream favoritism, but hey...when in Rome.

On this board, when we disagree, we try to do so civilly and with reason, under our OWN registered names (with this recent exception). There are no 10 page flame and argument threads like there are on the GB. I don't miss that one bit. So tell me again why shit stirring threads like this one...which I too missed, should be left up simply in the name of free speech. What do they contribute? What redeems them? What good do they serve?

If you want a flame war, I'll see ya' on the GB, I guess. *shrug*

 

[Cirrus]

And tell me when, exactly, the BDSM community became a "counterculture". We may not be the majority, but we're not trying to convert people to our practices either. That's what a counterculture is, isn't it? A group of people that says "the majority is wrong, we are right, join us". I don't see any of that. Maybe you're not as open minded as you'd like to think, KM.

 

[WriterDom]

The general board gets 8 pages of threads a day. This forum has 7 pages in the last 45 days. A troll post last an hour or so on the general board. Here, it might last a week if we don't keep the floors swept. I don't think any intelligent dissent on what we do would be removed. But the forum exists for the bdsm community. Nillas are welcome, but if you want to see how unmoderated free speech can destroy a subject orientated forum, look at the personal board before the playground was created.

Just so no one feels cheated, and so cym and RS don't get blamed, I moved this literary gem from our forum today:




I want daddy
I reall wanna have sex with my dad. i think he wants the same thing but I'm not sure so I need some help on how to
seduce hime. Any body got any tips.

 

[Never]

Cirrus:
"And tell me when, exactly, the BDSM community became a "counterculture". We may not be the majority, but we're not trying to convert people to our practices either. That's what a counterculture is, isn't it? A group of people that says "the majority is wrong, we are right, join us".

Noun: Counterculture
1. A culture with lifestyles and values opposed to those of the established culture

Nope, it doesn't say anything about trying to sway others to your beliefs. Unfortunately, the established culture is who decides which lifestyles are opposed to it's own. So when you talk about the BDSM community you are talking about a counterculture. When you talk about the queer community you're talking about a counterculture. As a community becomes more mainstream and accepted it loses its countercultureness.


I think it would be more beneficial if we focused on the ideas people present instead of accusing people of being narrow minded. The board is part of Literotica, a website that prides itself on its belief in free speech. Even the free speech of stupid people. I don't see that KillerMuffin's feelings about BDSM, whatever they may be, affect her argument.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I'll have to sincerely apologize to cymbidia. I had thought she moved the thread when she didn't. The tone of this thread gave me the wrong impression, but that's no excuse for jumping to conclusions.

Laurel holds the ideals of anti-censorship very dearly and I know this because she talks about it. Hell, the word COPA is enough to get her upset. You censored someone because they were insulting and not productive in your estimation and you justify this by the rules for the forum, which are clearly stated. Okay, that's fine, but when those rules run exactly opposite to what Laurel has been preaching, it makes me wonder. I am allowed to do that. I'm even allowed to bring it up if I feel moved to do so.

Risia, I've always been domineering. I've always spoken my mind even when it isn't the popular or acceptable thing to do. I'm not a cheering section and I'm not missish enough to shut my mouth when I see something that I think is wrong. No matter who it's against. I'm not sychophant material. Criticism sucks, no matter who does it.

What should I have done? Ignored a situation that I think is unacceptable? Approached you or cym in private? Run to Laurel? I'm not one to do things in private when they deal with more than one person. You've probably seen me air enough dirty laundry on the boards before. It's my opinion and I felt the need to share it. Why? I don't shut up just because people won't like what I have to say. I don't expect anyone else to do it either.

I don't know what Laurel's opinions are on all of this because I haven't asked her. I only know what I think about all of this. I also know that it's just my opinion. If you put more authority into it than that, you do so on your own. If I put authority into it, I do so only with whatever I've got personally and nothing else. I don't speak for Laurel, for moderators in general, for the average poster, I speak only for myself. I am speaking only for myself when I'm here because the only thing I am when I'm here is a poster. You know it as well as I do.

side note:

Cirrus, this is what counterculture means: "culture with values and mores that run counter to those of established society." In otherwords, counterculture is a culture where values and precepts are unacceptable to mainstream society. BDSM is counterculture. Like 'Nilla, it's just a convenient label.

 

[Sandia]

Kehehe
I just wanted to be here between KM and the next response.
Kehehe.

 

[Never]

Just to cool people off a bit (or to warm them up a bit) I suggest someone posts a picture of themselves naked.

~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~
That was slick. There's no way they'll guess my true motive.

 

[Sandia]

ok

your turn

 

[Sandia]

You better hurry

it's comin down

 

[Sandia]

So, uhm, what was your true motive,

anyway?

 

[Sandia]

Was that a

trick?

 

[KillerMuffin]

*waiting patiently to see naked Never sprawled over rumpled sheets*

I'm done with this. No point arguing this anyway. My opinion, take it or leave it.

 

[Sandia]

SHIT!!

You mean KM saw me NAKED!!

@!$!@#$#@$!!!!!

 

[CarolineOh]

*waiting patiently to see naked Never sprawled over rumpled sheets*

I'm done with this. No point arguing this anyway. My opinion, take it or leave it.

As much as I value everyone's opinion on this issue, I'd much rather see naked pictures of Never.

 

[Sandia]

Wait a minute

You heard her, Never:

she's waiting to see you naked...

 

[Sandia]

Alright, it's comin down.

I know at least three of you saw it though.

Tee hee.

 

[Never]

I would but... um..
I would only appear ugly compared to that wonderful specimen of a man Sandia.

 

[Sandia]

Oh, you are cruel.

Howja know I love that?

 

[Azwed]

I am, as always, wildly impressed with us, with our intelligence, our ability to be amusedly tolerant, and our willingness to kindly offer an education in all things BDSM to those who really only want hurt or change us.

Y'all make me proud to be a pervert.

b.





(I'm sending Todd a PM on this thread. This is too good for him to miss.)

Bringing in the big guns I see.

 

[Guest]

you people did exactly what I wanted you to do, enough said. dont you people understand the art of trolling? we trolls do these kind of things to get the masses dancing to our tune. we dont do these things to get into arguements, we do it to give you people something to do.
for the record... i think BSDM is a great thing, something I want to explore in fact. it isnt against God as I said, i only brought God and sin into the discussion to get you people to dance. and dance you did.

 

[WillowPuss]

you people did exactly what I wanted you to do, enough said. dont you people understand the art of trolling? we trolls do these kind of things to get the masses dancing to our tune. we dont do these things to get into arguements, we do it to give you people something to do.
for the record... i think BSDM is a great thing, something I want to explore in fact. it isnt against God as I said, i only brought God and sin into the discussion to get you people to dance. and dance you did.

Well, bravo! You must be very proud.
Glad we all obliged you.

Now ... how about giving us a name so we can recognise you when we see you again?

 

[Never]

you people did exactly what I wanted you to do, enough said. dont you people understand the art of trolling? we trolls do these kind of things to get the masses dancing to our tune. we dont do these things to get into arguements, we do it to give you people something to do.
for the record... i think BSDM is a great thing, something I want to explore in fact. it isnt against God as I said, i only brought God and sin into the discussion to get you people to dance. and dance you did.

You see Batman, you fell right into my nefarious plot, you – and the boy blunder too! I was manipulating you all along Bat-twerp. It was I who planted the evidence on Smitty. It was I who tipped off the police that night. It was I who killed Jessica Lance.

And it will be I, Unregistered, King of Crime who will become mayor of this city – after I finish with you!

BWHAHAHAHA! BWHAAHA!