why do nice finish always finish last?

[Superman2008]

Why?....

Because you don't take the first step...

Guys... I used to BE you. In fact I have replied to this thread several times. All you have to do is say Hi, no lame lines. Just be yourself. Either she will dig you or she won't. At least you will know.

I took this advice... and have met a great girl who sees everything I have to offer. Is it perfect? No.. We have our ups and downs, but in the end we're happy!

It's not easy to come out of your shell. TRUST me, but at some point you have to say FUCK it and just go for it.

 

[7inchglory]

Because nice guys think about the girl they're fucking, and once they've orgasmed.. they finish after.

 

[Sheana_V]

Because nice guys think about the girl they're fucking, and once they've orgasmed.. they finish after.

Was this English?

 

[Que]

In my younger, "nicer" years I was big on romance and unrequieted love. It did nothing for me and the object(s) of my crush(es) were denied a really good time because I never would put it all on the line. Sticking your toe in the water is never as attractive as doing a belly flop.

I had a pretty healthy self awareness, and was verbal and funny and genuinely cared about these girls. Enough so that in my martyr complex, when it was pretty apparent that my feelings were highly unlikely to be reciprocated, I passively accepted a friend role. This is NOT the same thing as the guy who orbits, fawning obsequeously, dishing compliments and offering services. THAT, I understood was stalkerish and would have made girls uncomfortable as they waited (as I have said in this thread previously) for the other shoe to drop.

But even crushing quietly in your corner is noticed and doesnt do anything for anyone. I truly believe there is NO predicting who a woman will be attracted to at any given time. You have usually one shot to see if chemistry is there. If not, try a different girl. Period.

There is no shortage of advice about what you can do to build attraction on that initial contact and most of it works, most of the time. People that discount psychological principles in human sexual interaction do so at their lonely peril. We all know that ad-men and salesmen influence choices. No one tells a peacock his brilliant display is stupid and that he should want a pea-hen who loves him for his kind soul.

I was searching for assistance several years ago when I found myself single and in the friend zone with a beautiful girL that I KNEW was initially quite attracted to me but I had fumbled it.

As I read, I learned of course the answer is you don't. Walk away, maybe you'll resdiscover each other another time but only if you are out there, a confidant man with viable options.

As I read in that sphere....I read a blog post that changed my life.

In essence I have distilled what I learned to: "Nice guys are actually assholes and assholes are simply being honest."

As many honest men and women have stated above being "nice" isn't. It puts a woman in an uncomfortable position of having to turn you down. Even if you are good looking and funny and have the right pheromones she HAS to turn you down. She will look bad and FEEL worse if it is perceived that she led on and then broke the heart of a "nice" guy.

I could go on and on (the way I do) about women's biological imperatives and the drive that they have to mate with a tribal chieftain. Be brave, not A brave.

It's frustrating to me to watch guys screw this up. I want to root for the underdog. Despite the fact that lingering about pining for a girl IS asshole behavior, I understand their heart is "in the right place." I KNOW that with minimal guidance, and the courage to approach with resolve and honest intent any guy can raise his attractiveness.

Women learn all manner of wiles from war-paint to how they stand when they laugh and how to do a killer hair-flip and no one denigrates their efforts in attracting the highest value partner they can.

 

[policywank]

Because nice guys think about the girl they're fucking, and once they've orgasmed.. they finish after.

Wow, that is really not a good starting point for me.

Obviously I want a guy who makes an effort to attend to my needs. However, what you said sounds like a nicer version of "Im going to rock your world baby" which makes me want to snicker and run away.

It is a fine line between being confident and being delusional. No mature male believes he can please a woman every single time. I don't care if you are Denzel with a 12" dick we just aren't that simple or predictable. Sometimes I wish we were.

And how can any man presume to know what will turn me on. Just because something worked for your last girlfriend doesn't mean it will work for me - I could be into some freaky shit that doesn't appeal to you at all. Or maybe I want to please my man first. Maybe I want to suck your dick then take you dinner and tease you all night until you take me home and fuck my brains out - having Mr. goodie two shoes insist on licking me before I suck him is going to ruin the whole mood.

I don't need to be "taken care of" or patronized. I need real men - self-aware and able to deal with mature relationships. Rule #1 is you won't hit a home run every time you get to the plate. I don't expect it from you or any other man and I don't have time to fake it to feed your delusions.

 

[Mercury_Maniac]

I'm a clueless nice guy, thats why I'm last

 

[BongoGal]

They don't.

 

[7inchglory]

Wow, that is really not a good starting point for me.

Obviously I want a guy who makes an effort to attend to my needs. However, what you said sounds like a nicer version of "Im going to rock your world baby" which makes me want to snicker and run away.

It is a fine line between being confident and being delusional. No mature male believes he can please a woman every single time. I don't care if you are Denzel with a 12" dick we just aren't that simple or predictable. Sometimes I wish we were.

And how can any man presume to know what will turn me on. Just because something worked for your last girlfriend doesn't mean it will work for me - I could be into some freaky shit that doesn't appeal to you at all. Or maybe I want to please my man first. Maybe I want to suck your dick then take you dinner and tease you all night until you take me home and fuck my brains out - having Mr. goodie two shoes insist on licking me before I suck him is going to ruin the whole mood.

I don't need to be "taken care of" or patronized. I need real men - self-aware and able to deal with mature relationships. Rule #1 is you won't hit a home run every time you get to the plate. I don't expect it from you or any other man and I don't have time to fake it to feed your delusions.

It was a joke.

And even if it wasn't a joke, and IF it was my opinion -- just like the statement "why do nice guys finish last?", it would be MY opinion.

Don't start a forum rant and start badgering people who don't believe what you believe.

 

[policywank]

It was a joke.

And even if it wasn't a joke, and IF it was my opinion -- just like the statement "why do nice guys finish last?", it would be MY opinion.

Don't start a forum rant and start badgering people who don't believe what you believe.

Not badgering anybody. Just offering an opinion - sometimes that involves disagreement even from a woman.

 

[policywank]

I think part of the challenge is that women are just as indecisive about what they want from men as men are about what they want from a woman. Nice guys tend to get fucked over, ironically in much the same way as slutty girls. The opposite sex uses them then casts them aside for someone "more desirable"

 

[policywank]

I also have another random theory.

The majority of men see women as undesirable long-term life partners if they are sexually experienced.
I have had men be turned off because I was too good in bed - once the fucking was done the insecurity started because they correctly assumed my skills were honed through practice.

Even women who are sexually aware are generally more interested in good life partners than good sexual partners.

Since a "bad boy" is usually not a good life partner. I can fuck him and not care what he thinks of me.

With a "good boy" to whom I am attracted I will be more cautious sexually for fear of driving him away ten minutes after the sex.

If I didn't feel negatively judged for being sexual the outcome might be different....or not.....I'll never know unless we can find a parallel universe where guys aren't insecure about a woman's sexuality

 

[norfolklad]

I also have another random theory.

The majority of men see women as undesirable long-term life partners if they are sexually experienced.
I have had men be turned off because I was too good in bed - once the fucking was done the insecurity started because they correctly assumed my skills were honed through practice.

Even women who are sexually aware are generally more interested in good life partners than good sexual partners.

Since a "bad boy" is usually not a good life partner. I can fuck him and not care what he thinks of me.

With a "good boy" to whom I am attracted I will be more cautious sexually for fear of driving him away ten minutes after the sex.

If I didn't feel negatively judged for being sexual the outcome might be different....or not.....I'll never know unless we can find a parallel universe where guys aren't insecure about a woman's sexuality

An interesting take on it.

To look at it in a slightly different way, the nice guy who is looking for a relationship rather than a quick fuck is going to raise much deeper questions in the woman than just 'do I want to fuck him?' That question can be very quickly answered whereas deeper ones like "Do I want a relationship with him?" need a great deal more thought and are perhaps more likely to raise doubts.

I adore women's sexuality and it certainly doesn't make me feel insecure (quite the opposite) but there are still times when I lose out through being at the nice guy end of the spectrum.

 

[policywank]

An interesting take on it.

To look at it in a slightly different way, the nice guy who is looking for a relationship rather than a quick fuck is going to raise much deeper questions in the woman than just 'do I want to fuck him?' That question can be very quickly answered whereas deeper ones like "Do I want a relationship with him?" need a great deal more thought and are perhaps more likely to raise doubts.

I adore women's sexuality and it certainly doesn't make me feel insecure (quite the opposite) but there are still times when I lose out through being at the nice guy end of the spectrum.

Unfortunately, we do often "judge a book by its cover" even when just looking for a quick fuck. Due to stereotypes the nice guy may never get the chance to let me know he is really a freak, which is my loss.

Also if a woman wants to be a bad girl for a night it isn't too hard - a wardrobe change will do the trick and most guys will go along even if she isn't doing a good job of playing the part. I think it is tougher for a guy to get a woman to accept a different persona.

 

[Mercury_Maniac]

I think its because a lot of nice guys including myself have simply given up.

 

[suckonsimon]

I've for ever been the nice guy, the kind and thoughtful guy, the gentleman ... and, yeah, in the years of sexual discovery I remained the virgin. Then I got interested in finding me, not a lay, but a wife. Suddenly there were four to choose from. I chose right.

Some of those guys who were the hero's behind the garages when we were 18, 19 - I wonder who ended up winning the race really.

 

[policywank]

I've for ever been the nice guy, the kind and thoughtful guy, the gentleman ... and, yeah, in the years of sexual discovery I remained the virgin. Then I got interested in finding me, not a lay, but a wife. Suddenly there were four to choose from. I chose right.

Some of those guys who were the hero's behind the garages when we were 18, 19 - I wonder who ended up winning the race really.

There is something to be said for the fact that the women who put the nice guys last are not the ones you want anyway. It must be hard to take for young men. However, anecdotally it seems like the women who go for the bad boys end up in the trailer park at 30. And at just about the same time the other women are coming into their prime with a much more balanced view of men and sexuality. Cougars like nice guys and make excellent lovers.

 

[romantic_perv]

Cougars like nice guys and make excellent lovers.

Yeah older women all the way!

They love my soft skin, especially in my upper arms where my muscles jut out.

 

[Mercury_Maniac]

I'm getting to the point where I'm gonna stop being nice.


Won't help anything I suppose, but I'm tired of getting taken for granted and not getting anything in return.

 

[Sheana_V]

I'm getting to the point where I'm gonna stop being nice.


Won't help anything I suppose, but I'm tired of getting taken for granted and not getting anything in return.

Try making your needs explicit, then you can't be taken for granted. You can only be taken for granted when you're giving out of the hope that something benefits you later. See also my slot machine analogy.

 

[Mercury_Maniac]

Try making your needs explicit, then you can't be taken for granted. You can only be taken for granted when you're giving out of the hope that something benefits you later. See also my slot machine analogy.

the damage has already been done.

 

[AmatoriuS]

Like others have posted, 'nice' in this context generally means 'passive'.

 

[AmatoriuS]

I'm getting to the point where I'm gonna stop being nice.


Won't help anything I suppose, but I'm tired of getting taken for granted and not getting anything in return.

A lot of 'nice guys' seem to end up posting this sort of veiled threatening stuff too when being 'nice' doesn't work out, if you have this bubbling resentment and anger under the surface you're probably not as 'nice' as you think you are.

All of this comes from confidence and misreading confidence as aggression, be confident in yourself and don't try and act a part just to attract women.

 

[Mercury_Maniac]

A lot of 'nice guys' seem to end up posting this sort of veiled threatening stuff too when being 'nice' doesn't work out, if you have this bubbling resentment and anger under the surface you're probably not as 'nice' as you think you are.

All of this comes from confidence and misreading confidence as aggression, be confident in yourself and don't try and act a part just to attract women.

I'm always helping people when asked. I always offer my help when its needed.

Certain people take that for granted. All I was saying is that I'm not gonna make myself as available because I find I get taken advantage of, and when I ask for help in return its not there.

I'm always told I'm a great guy and will find a woman. but that party line has gotten old and I feel like women are lying to me

 

[AmatoriuS]

I'm always helping people when asked. I always offer my help when its needed.

Certain people take that for granted. All I was saying is that I'm not gonna make myself as available because I find I get taken advantage of, and when I ask for help in return its not there.

I'm always told I'm a great guy and will find a woman. but that party line has gotten old and I feel like women are lying to me

You're coming across as if you're owed something for your time, if you're just doing stuff in the hope somebody will reward you with sex or a relationship that' really weird and wrong, same thing with the being lied to, there's no secret conspiracy, women are people too, do you find all women attractive I imagine not?

Just because they want to be your friend doesn't mean you can just run errands for them and magically become attractive to them, you've got a serous case of victim hood with some bitterness thrown in that I guarantee will be turning women away

I'm writing this because I know what it's like to feel ignored but like I said before you're not owed anything for your efforts.

Your efforts should be their own reward because you want to make people happy not because you expect something from them.

 

[7inchglory]

You're coming across as if you're owed something for your time, if you're just doing stuff in the hope somebody will reward you with sex or a relationship that' really weird and wrong, same thing with the being lied to, there's no secret conspiracy, women are people too, do you find all women attractive I imagine not?

Just because they want to be your friend doesn't mean you can just run errands for them and magically become attractive to them, you've got a serous case of victim hood with some bitterness thrown in that I guarantee will be turning women away

I'm writing this because I know what it's like to feel ignored but like I said before you're not owed anything for your efforts.

Your efforts should be their own reward because you want to make people happy not because you expect something from them.

Mercury is not relating to doing things in return for sexual favours. We just assume that because most of the talk has been focused on sex. He stated that people aren't there to help when he wants help in return: whether it be consultation on a matter or actual help (like moving helping move a couch).

Been there and done that. Many people will ask you for help and not return it, girls and guys. Just learn to cut, and move on -- you'll be surprised how many great people are waiting to be met when you distance yourself from toxic, lazy people, or one-sided friendships.

You'll know it when they're the type to badger you to come out with them, or message you when they haven't seen you in a while just to check in on your well being.