why do nice finish always finish last?

[rcwilliams]

with me... nice guy got to marry me.

bad boys are lots of fun and that edge of excitement / danger / intrigue / mystery definitely captures my attention, but that wears off once I get to know him. It's the nice guy that got me for the long run.

If you ever find a nice guy, hold on to him...

 

[BongoGal]

I suspect that the term 'nice' varies in definition quite dramatically from person to person, to the point that people here aren't talking about the same thing.

 

[Mercury_Maniac]

yeah i've given up completely

 

[Beck31]

hell if i know

i'll never understand why a woman would want someone who treats them like crap and a second class citizen when she would be better off with a nice guy who truly loves her. (Im guess it can go both ways too)

 

[jmace1000]

Hmm. I don't know. The cynic in me wonders though if it's just an incredibly annoying aspect of human nature, that we just too often don't seem to like what's good for us?!

 

[AltruisticDelights]

They don't.

 

[Que]

You can be gentlemanly, you can be courtly, you can be kind.

You cannot be tentative, you cannot be obsequious, you cannot come across as needy in any way.

The problem with thinking of yourself as a "nice guy" is you give yourself permission to delay being clear about desire and intentions.

Women tend to decide if you are mate material or friend material rather quickly.

Do you really think they keep every guy they meet in the "hmm, maybe, lets see how things go" category? They meet men everyday. If you hesitate so as to not be a "pushy asshole' you help them decide....and it ISNT to bed you.

Women can be hunted, they can't be acquired with a baited trap. Human males are predatory, or celibate.

For all the inevitable doubting "nice guys"...why are you so invested in a mating strategy that is not working for you?

What do you have to lose? Try a direct approach. You will be amazed at the smiles, hugs, and "Awww, thanks!" you will get with a "Nice ass!' comment as opposed to, "You have really beautiful eyes."

The other thing I notice about "nice guys" is they tend to be fixated on a girl that for WHATEVER reason just isn't into them. You have to approach a lot of women to find ones who is compatible with your personality, your look and your pheromones. Can't fight biology.

Approach the prettier ones. They are a) less defensive... b) more likely to be impressed that you showed some initiative and c) be compatible with YOU. because the ones YOU think are the prettier ones probably have SOME marker that works with your genetics. Some other guy is approaching a DIFFERENT girl thinking she is the prettier one.

 

[Que]

I suspect that the term 'nice' varies in definition quite dramatically from person to person, to the point that people here aren't talking about the same thing.

No, I think we ALL know exactly what a "nice guy" is. Woman who find a man attractive, and find that he treats her the way she wants to be treated is never described to her friends as a "nice guy" he is 'hot' ...'sexy'...'a man'...but never a "nice guy"

Nice guy is code for a guy that hangs around waiting for scraps to fall off the table, and it never works.

Just because a woman has tired of her latest "asshole" boyfriend doesnt mean the timid guy gets his turn next because he has "been there for her."

i'll never understand why a woman would want someone who treats them like crap and a second class citizen when she would be better off with a nice guy who truly loves her. (Im guess it can go both ways too)

It isn't a choice of sunshine with the "nice guy" or gloom with the bad boy. Its a choice of the potential for excitement with no regrets if she has to dump the bad guy, or the slow dread of being seen as a bitch when she finally has to tell the hovering "nice guy" that no, she just isn't feeling it.

I read an essay once about how rude it really is to hover around a girl. How since you have been nice, but haven't really asked her anything she cant even politely decline, so she waits and waits with dread for the day when your balls grow to the point you ACTUALLY put a move on her. Dread is not sexy.

You don't HAVE to be an asshole. Although admittedly, it helps. All it takes is enough of a devil-may-care attitude that she feels safe taking a chance on you, without the fear that you are going to burst into tears if she finds out midstream that she isn't feeling it.

I JUST got stood up last week. It was a flyer...I had been using what salesmen call the assumptive close. You "assume" the sale. I had talked to her about getting a room, the fun we were going to have as if it was a fait accompli. She nodded and smiled and agreed. Then was a no show. I sensed she was having a change of heart, but the only reason I was even THAT far was because in the 3 encounters we had had, I wasn't fixated on her. I had a (politely) roving eye. If she sensed that it has been a bit for me and I was kind of counting on a little R&R she would have spooked way earlier.

As it is- she sent me a text this week as if she hadn't flaked. Next time I hope...or the next girl.

You can't fixate on a girl you are NOT actually in a relationship with! Even with the purest of souls, being THAT smitten that you could ALLOW yourself to be in a friend-zone is stalkerish. They have a sixth sense for that level of interest and it ISN'T a warm and fuzzy feeling for them.

FORGET what you see them respond to in a romantic movie..it isn't happening to THEM so it's "safe" to romanticize unrequited love. EVER notice that the object of your affections friends/parents/neighbor/dog thinks you are simply swell, but she just doesn't? It isn't "happening" to them.

Look I am as sentimental and foolish as any guy. I LIVE in fantasy land. But believe me if you catch feelings for a girl you HAVE to at least FAKE a little reserve, a little aloof. Give her space, and leave her with enough doubts about your interest to give you enough plausible dependability to be at least a mildly interesting puzzle. You wanna love a chick from afar? Great! Do yourself and her a favor and make it FAR.

 

[AltruisticDelights]

No, I think we ALL know exactly what a "nice guy" is. Woman who find a man attractive, and find that he treats her the way she wants to be treated is never described to her friends as a "nice guy" he is 'hot' ...'sexy'...'a man'...but never a "nice guy"

Nice guy is code for a guy that hangs around waiting for scraps to fall off the table, and it never works.

Just because a woman has tired of her latest "asshole" boyfriend doesnt mean the timid guy gets his turn next because he has "been there for her."

I agreed with almost everything you said until you mentioned the "been there for her" part. I was the stereotypical nice guy all through high school. Saw my fair share of women that complained about the assholes that they were being mistreated by and was constantly friend zoned. As soon as I joined the Army I achieved a happy medium and actually one of the girls that friend zoned me attended my basic training graduation and got a hotel room so I could fuck her.

 

[Sensualdreamer]

I prefer a confident masculine guy who is respectful, and dominant. Call it the bad boy cloaked in niceness.

 

[Que]

I agreed with almost everything you said until you mentioned the "been there for her" part. I was the stereotypical nice guy all through high school. Saw my fair share of women that complained about the assholes that they were being mistreated by and was constantly friend zoned. As soon as I joined the Army I achieved a happy medium and actually one of the girls that friend zoned me attended my basic training graduation and got a hotel room so I could fuck her.

It is nearly impossible to escape the friend-zone for it is a self imposed prison....So OUTSTANDING JOB

....but think about it. The reason you did so this one exceedingly rare time...you "manned up". Literally. Not much a less than assertive male can do BETTER than joining the military for manly points. She wouldn't have gotten a hotel room to give you a congratulatory fuck for finishing floral arranging school.

 

[AltruisticDelights]

It is nearly impossible to escape the friend-zone for it is a self imposed prison....So OUTSTANDING JOB

....but think about it. The reason you did so this one exceedingly rare time...you "manned up". Literally. Not much a less than assertive male can do BETTER than joining the military for manly points. She wouldn't have gotten a hotel room to give you a congratulatory fuck for finishing floral arranging school.

Hahaha that post was epic I must say. Floral Arranging school.. priceless.

 

[JasonGuitar]

I always finish last,
I need to be sure she's orgasmed many more times before I'm done.
I'm nice that way.

LOL this thread made me want to reply in a similar way. Great minds think alike.

 

[knottygirl]

Sex is a often good with bad boys because they aren't worried about offending you. Nice guys tend to be overly polite, tentative, predictable, and boring in bed. Bad boys just take what they want. Ironically, it is the guys that seemed the least concerned with giving me pleasure that often gave me the most pleasure.

Of course, a nice guy can pretend to be a bad boy in bed, but even if he is able to replicate all of the mechanical aspects of rough sex (and often they can't), it's still not the same. Psychologically, it is a very different experience when you are with a guy who cares about you and is only pretending to use you compared to when you are with a guy who really is using you. Why rapey sex turns me on in the first place, I couldn't tell you. But it does, and bad boys are better at it.

But I think it would be quite hypocritical for you nice guys to feel slighted by my interest in bad boys. After all, I'm not a "nice girl", and so why are you interested in me?

Actually, it's not that simple. I do have a nice girl side to me and always have. The nice girl inside of me wants to fall in love and have a long-term committed relationship with a nice guy. She thinks that the level of physical intimacy that I share with someone should never exceed the level of emotional intimacy that I share with someone. But the slut inside of me thinks all that sounds incredibly boring. She wants me to find a man of low character to fuck me like a whore. For most of my life, the nice girl has had little influence over my dating and mating choices other than to make me feel guilty in the morning. But as I get older the things she tells me start to make more and more sense.

I suspect most people experience a similar dichotomy inside themselves, although perhaps the balance of power is different. Our dark selves are attracted to the darkness we see in others, and our virtuous selves are attracted to the goodness we see in others.

 

[MisterChillax]

Every so called nice guy should read Knottygirl´s post.

 

[SassySheDevil]

Sex is a often good with bad boys because they aren't worried about offending you. Nice guys tend to be overly polite, tentative, predictable, and boring in bed. Bad boys just take what they want. Ironically, it is the guys that seemed the least concerned with giving me pleasure that often gave me the most pleasure.

Of course, a nice guy can pretend to be a bad boy in bed, but even if he is able to replicate all of the mechanical aspects of rough sex (and often they can't), it's still not the same. Psychologically, it is a very different experience when you are with a guy who cares about you and is only pretending to use you compared to when you are with a guy who really is using you. Why rapey sex turns me on in the first place, I couldn't tell you. But it does, and bad boys are better at it.

But I think it would be quite hypocritical for you nice guys to feel slighted by my interest in bad boys. After all, I'm not a "nice girl", and so why are you interested in me?

Actually, it's not that simple. I do have a nice girl side to me and always have. The nice girl inside of me wants to fall in love and have a long-term committed relationship with a nice guy. She thinks that the level of physical intimacy that I share with someone should never exceed the level of emotional intimacy that I share with someone. But the slut inside of me thinks all that sounds incredibly boring. She wants me to find a man of low character to fuck me like a whore. For most of my life, the nice girl has had little influence over my dating and mating choices other than to make me feel guilty in the morning. But as I get older the things she tells me start to make more and more sense.

I suspect most people experience a similar dichotomy inside themselves, although perhaps the balance of power is different. Our dark selves are attracted to the darkness we see in others, and our virtuous selves are attracted to the goodness we see in others.

yes, love this.!!

 

[DeceptiveSpeed]

Wow, a lot of whiners here. Read Knotty's post and do a little introspection.

Here's the thing:

I'm a nice guy. Courteous. Outgoing. Fun. But I've got that dark little switch that gets flipped. Some women like that. Some don't

Find a girl for you. It takes time and patience. You get 0% of the pussy 100% of the time if you don't get off your ass and try.

 

[AltruisticDelights]

Sex is a often good with bad boys because they aren't worried about offending you. Nice guys tend to be overly polite, tentative, predictable, and boring in bed. Bad boys just take what they want. Ironically, it is the guys that seemed the least concerned with giving me pleasure that often gave me the most pleasure.

Of course, a nice guy can pretend to be a bad boy in bed, but even if he is able to replicate all of the mechanical aspects of rough sex (and often they can't), it's still not the same. Psychologically, it is a very different experience when you are with a guy who cares about you and is only pretending to use you compared to when you are with a guy who really is using you. Why rapey sex turns me on in the first place, I couldn't tell you. But it does, and bad boys are better at it.

But I think it would be quite hypocritical for you nice guys to feel slighted by my interest in bad boys. After all, I'm not a "nice girl", and so why are you interested in me?

Actually, it's not that simple. I do have a nice girl side to me and always have. The nice girl inside of me wants to fall in love and have a long-term committed relationship with a nice guy. She thinks that the level of physical intimacy that I share with someone should never exceed the level of emotional intimacy that I share with someone. But the slut inside of me thinks all that sounds incredibly boring. She wants me to find a man of low character to fuck me like a whore. For most of my life, the nice girl has had little influence over my dating and mating choices other than to make me feel guilty in the morning. But as I get older the things she tells me start to make more and more sense.

I suspect most people experience a similar dichotomy inside themselves, although perhaps the balance of power is different. Our dark selves are attracted to the darkness we see in others, and our virtuous selves are attracted to the goodness we see in others.

This post is so incredibly hot. Fuck you sounds like fun

 

[Paendragon]

Idk just wondering peoples thought on the subject. Bc it seems like it happens to me a ton.

It's the polite thing to do. Finishing first in the bedroom is quite rude.

 

[SassySheDevil]

It's the polite thing to do. Finishing first in the bedroom is quite rude.

But yet, so many still do it.

 

[wildchild24143]

girls want an exciting guy, nice or bad x

Nice guys don't always finish last... Sometimes they don't finish at all

 

[Sheana_V]

:sigh:

Why do "nice guys" finish last?
Because they either aren't that nice or they aren't that great.
Douche-bro's don't exactly finish first, and the false dichotomy is part of the problem.

You want to fuck me? Well what do you have to offer? It's not exactly as though my rolodex is empty.

Why do "Nice guys" finish last?
They often don't even try. They sit there feeding nice tokens into me as though when they hit my 'nice guy' token limit they're going to hit the Jackpot and sex is going to pop out of my slot.
I'm not a fucking slot machine. I fuck you because there is something about you I actively find attractive. "Nice". Nice is not a signifier that you hold any value. "Nice" just means you are actually aren't repulsive. Though sometimes nice comes with creepy, and then you aren't even that.
They don't offer anything. They are just nice. Being "nice" does nothing for me. You want to get me wet? Tell me what you're good at, make sure I know how good you are in bed, make me laugh, engage me in a conversation about philosophy or something I'm interested in. Anything! Anything at all other than "But I'm such a nice guy". Nice doesn't make me cum, nice doesn't make me laugh, nice doesn't intellectually stimulate me, nice doesn't help me write. Nice just means I find nothing about you repellant.
Finally, "nice" is sooooooo often a cover for misogyny. The "asshole" who I decide to fuck at least I know I'm fucking a misogynistic asshole. The "Nice Guy" I don't know what to expect. If I turn an asshole down I am rarely called a "slut cunt whore fat bitch" for it, he just leaves. If I turn a "nice guy" down I so often get that or a guilt trip.
"Nice Guys" are often actually just looking for pussy so that they have some reason to feel valued in this world, as though my pussy bestows upon them the right to beingness. Get some fucking self esteem and then come back to me.

And just so were clear. Assholes don't do it for me either. If you can't respect my boundaries I have reason to be actively afraid of you in terms of my own personal safety.
As a rule (though there have been exceptions) I don't sleep with assholes. I don't like mean people, and if a guy seems like he's misogynistic, picks on other people, can't follow boundaries, doesn't seem genuinely interested in what I'm saying, etc... It's over. I'm moving the fuck on. Someone earlier commented about women being with people that treat them like crap or second class citizens. IMO, that's complete bullshit. At least for any woman that values herself highly. She doesn't do that. Yes those guys are likely to get more than "nice guys", but they are not the prime meat. They simply usually a least provide something as opposed to nothing. However if I guy treats me like crap, that';s the end of that interaction.

 

[Superman2008]

Oh I like you ... lol. I have come to terms with the fact that I AM a nice guy, but an asshole too. I am just me. Wanna fuck?

:sigh:

Why do "nice guys" finish last?
Because they either aren't that nice or they aren't that great.
Douche-bro's don't exactly finish first, and the false dichotomy is part of the problem.

You want to fuck me? Well what do you have to offer? It's not exactly as though my rolodex is empty.

Why do "Nice guys" finish last?
They often don't even try. They sit there feeding nice tokens into me as though when they hit my 'nice guy' token limit they're going to hit the Jackpot and sex is going to pop out of my slot.
I'm not a fucking slot machine. I fuck you because there is something about you I actively find attractive. "Nice". Nice is not a signifier that you hold any value. "Nice" just means you are actually aren't repulsive. Though sometimes nice comes with creepy, and then you aren't even that.
They don't offer anything. They are just nice. Being "nice" does nothing for me. You want to get me wet? Tell me what you're good at, make sure I know how good you are in bed, make me laugh, engage me in a conversation about philosophy or something I'm interested in. Anything! Anything at all other than "But I'm such a nice guy". Nice doesn't make me cum, nice doesn't make me laugh, nice doesn't intellectually stimulate me, nice doesn't help me write. Nice just means I find nothing about you repellant.
Finally, "nice" is sooooooo often a cover for misogyny. The "asshole" who I decide to fuck at least I know I'm fucking a misogynistic asshole. The "Nice Guy" I don't know what to expect. If I turn an asshole down I am rarely called a "slut cunt whore fat bitch" for it, he just leaves. If I turn a "nice guy" down I so often get that or a guilt trip.
"Nice Guys" are often actually just looking for pussy so that they have some reason to feel valued in this world, as though my pussy bestows upon them the right to beingness. Get some fucking self esteem and then come back to me.

And just so were clear. Assholes don't do it for me either. If you can't respect my boundaries I have reason to be actively afraid of you in terms of my own personal safety.
As a rule (though there have been exceptions) I don't sleep with assholes. I don't like mean people, and if a guy seems like he's misogynistic, picks on other people, can't follow boundaries, doesn't seem genuinely interested in what I'm saying, etc... It's over. I'm moving the fuck on. Someone earlier commented about women being with people that treat them like crap or second class citizens. IMO, that's complete bullshit. At least for any woman that values herself highly. She doesn't do that. Yes those guys are likely to get more than "nice guys", but they are not the prime meat. They simply usually a least provide something as opposed to nothing. However if I guy treats me like crap, that';s the end of that interaction.

 

[Slinger137]

I'm not a fucking slot machine. I fuck you because there is something about you I actively find attractive. "Nice". Nice is not a signifier that you hold any value. "Nice" just means you are actually aren't repulsive. Though sometimes nice comes with creepy, and then you aren't even that.

it is creepy if someone is all nice. but maybe we are all not used to someone just being really nice because so many turn out to be nice on the surface just to get sex/relationships/better jobs etc.
i got this several times that people open their mouths - male,female; does not matter - and they are just tying to be nice and friendly and you can obviously feel it is not authentic.
people with character but much more with charisma are becoming rare these days as i see it.
iphones and gadgets and psychological tricks and guides make it for many helpful to play the game longer and more...

They don't offer anything. They are just nice. Being "nice" does nothing for me. You want to get me wet? Tell me what you're good at, make sure I know how good you are in bed, make me laugh, engage me in a conversation about philosophy or something I'm interested in. Anything! Anything at all other than "But I'm such a nice guy".

I know this from the other side and was dealing with a totally confused woman that did not understand that i do not want to meet her another time as i got fed up with her stupid talk.

Nice doesn't make me cum, nice doesn't make me laugh, nice doesn't intellectually stimulate me, nice doesn't help me write. Nice just means I find nothing about you repellant.
Finally, "nice" is sooooooo often a cover for misogyny. The "asshole" who I decide to fuck at least I know I'm fucking a misogynistic asshole. The "Nice Guy" I don't know what to expect. If I turn an asshole down I am rarely called a "slut cunt whore fat bitch" for it, he just leaves. If I turn a "nice guy" down I so often get that or a guilt trip.

how do you spot a misogynistic guy by being nice ? assholes can be misogynistic as well and probably a good amount of them even is successful with it. the amount of women dealing with that kind of "partner" is not as low as we think.
i think for these "nice guy- playing" ones it is a high amount of frustration because they think being nice means they have to get pussy " i was nice so she has to fuck me then".
same as the discussion about alexis texas ( a porn star that does not want to fuck black men as she does not want it because of business) and her choice of sexpartner on cam: +
black men call her racist and think she should fuck them too.
now how is that ? i think a woman and a man as well has the right to decide who they have sex with no matter what race age religion etc they have.

"Nice Guys" are often actually just looking for pussy so that they have some reason to feel valued in this world, as though my pussy bestows upon them the right to beingness. Get some fucking self esteem and then come back to me.

sex and partners are a status in many societies/cultures. and for many females (sexual) attention ( and if it is only flirting) makes their self esteem happen. this is not just a guy thing.

And just so were clear. Assholes don't do it for me either. If you can't respect my boundaries I have reason to be actively afraid of you in terms of my own personal safety.
As a rule (though there have been exceptions) I don't sleep with assholes. I don't like mean people, and if a guy seems like he's misogynistic, picks on other people, can't follow boundaries, doesn't seem genuinely interested in what I'm saying, etc... It's over. I'm moving the fuck on.

i wonder who would be turned on by someone who does not pay attention ?

Someone earlier commented about women being with people that treat them like crap or second class citizens. IMO, that's complete bullshit. At least for any woman that values herself highly. She doesn't do that. Yes those guys are likely to get more than "nice guys", but they are not the prime meat. They simply usually a least provide something as opposed to nothing. However if I guy treats me like crap, that';s the end of that interaction.

that is not bullshit. a really big amount of females has abusive partners. maybe in our industrial countries where independence is bigger for females that might not be so clear to see but you would wonder how emotionally unstable many are.
it's a good thing you stand up for yourself and do not take shit.
just keep in mind that your level of development and resistance against BS is not as high on many out there.

 

[policywank]

Seems to me that what many people are referring to as being nice is actually just being shy and weak.

Those characteristics are not necessarily correlated with being nice. And being weak to the point of compliance is really not attractive in any human - even a sub in a dom/sub relationship has a clue what he wants.

I'm not exactly saying you have to earn my pussy, but - well maybe that is what I am saying but not in a materialistic way. You have to earn it by presenting me with the possibility that I will enjoy the sex too.

Maybe it isn't fair, but how am I supposed to believe you will be a decent lay when you haven't the courage to say hello?

Oh and for goodness sake please don't make claims like "I always make sure she orgasm many times before I do". It suggests you don't understand sexual complexities and desire or worse that you are so delusional that you actually believe you have complete control over a woman's pleasure. That premise alone is a turn-off and I don't have the time to feed that delusion.

For me sexual attraction and enjoyment is intricately linked to a personal connection. You might be a total stud but just don't do it for me - I won't orgasm. Or you may be nothing special at all but we have the right connection and I'll shimmy right off the bed.