Why do people read erotica?

[Guest]

I don't think you're wrong.

I think everyone has their own interpretation of erotica.

Many romance novels could be considered in the same category, if you think about it. Explicit descriptions of the sexual act, the main focus of the story seems to be to get the characters into that situation . . .

The dienet online dictionary defines erotica as simply pornography.

It defines smut as - 4. Obscene language; ribaldry; obscenity.


Webster's Dictionary definitions:

erotic - 1. of, devoted to, or tending to arouse sexual love or desire, 2. strongly affected by sexual desire

erotica - literary or artistic items having an erotic theme or quality.

smut n - 1. matter that soils or blackens, 2. any of various destruction diseases caused by parasitic fungi and marked by transformation of plant organs into dark masses of spores, 3. material treated obscenely or felt to be morally fouling.



So - after a quick bit of research I must conclude that the definition of smut or erotica remains in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[Guest]

I almost forgot Tom Lehrer -

Tom Lehrer (spoken intro)

I do have a cause though. It is obscenity. I'm for it. Unfortunately the civil liberties types who are fighting this issue have to fight it owing to the nature of the laws as a matter of freedom of speech and stifling of free expression and so on but we no what's really involved: dirty books are fun. That's all there is to it. But you can't get up in a court and say that I suppose. It's simply a matter of freedom of pleasure, a right which is not guaranteed by the Constitution unfortunately. Anyway, since people seem to be marching for their causes these days I have here a march for mine. It's called...

Smut!
Give me smut and nothing but!
A dirty novel I can't shut,
If it's uncut,
and unsubt- le.

I've never quibbled
If it was ribald,
I would devour where others merely nibbled.
As the judge remarked the day that he
acquitted my Aunt Hortense,
"To be smut
It must be ut-
Terly without redeeming social importance."

Por-
Nographic pictures I adore.
Indecent magazines galore,
I like them more
If they're hard core.

(Bring on the obscene movies, murals, postcards, neckties,
samplers, stained-glass windows, tattoos, anything!
More, more, I'm still not satisfied!)

Stories of tortures
Used by debauchers,
Lurid, licentious, and vile,
Make me smile.
Novels that pander
To my taste for candor
Give me a pleasure sublime.
(Let's face it, I love slime.)

All books can be indecent books
Though recent books are bolder,
For filth (I'm glad to say) is in
the mind of the beholder.
When correctly viewed,
Everything is lewd.
(I could tell you things about Peter Pan,
And the Wizard of Oz, there's a dirty old man!)

I thrill
To any book like Fanny Hill,
And I suppose I always will,
If it is swill
And really fil-
thy.

Who needs a hobby like tennis or philately?
I've got a hobby: rereading Lady Chatterley.
But now they're trying to take it all
away from us unless
We take a stand, and hand in hand
we fight for freedom of the press.
In other words,

Smut! (I love it)
Ah, the adventures of a slut.
Oh, I'm a market they can't glut,
I don't know what
Compares with smut.

Hip hip hooray!
Let's hear it for the Supreme Court!
Don't let them take it away!

 

[Allosaur14]

iuwyiweu

 

[Typo Fu Master]

Ok. That clarifies things a bit. I need to revise my estimation of Varley's books then. The sex is a very small part of the story. There are erotic elements, but the story as a whole I would no longer call "erotica."

 

[Private_Label]

I ask this because I know that I read it for enjoyment and because it excites me. When I read a story I am not in the editing mind and I don't pick a story apart just because the writer may not spell very well.

Hi Kitten,

I started reading out of curiousity. I can read all the how too books and whatnot, but it didn't really answer what I was looking to find out. So I turned to *smut*

*Smut* talked about how great orgasms were. Masturbating with just my hand or bunched up sheets wasn't producing the result that I was reading about. Hence came the *vibrator*... but I am getting off the topic...

I can take constructive critism so it's not that I'm being a baby. I just think if you have something negative to say you should be willing to have your name on the message and give me the opportunity to answer you.

I think you will run into this problem regardless of it being Literotica or non-erotic places were people can critique your work.

It requires developing a bit of a thick skin ... No, I take that back - not a thick skin, but learning how to separate the comments that are made just to tear you down, or made because your STYLE of writing is different from theirs, or because they just open their mouths and words come out and they push send before they have considered how the comment will sound without the voice inflections and facial expressions to back it up.

For myself... If you are publishing a work - for goodness sake, run it through a spell checker! This will catch the worst offences. As a reader there is nothing worse than reading a story that has mistakes in every sentence (Not your fault, but I have seen some elsewhere). If it is an unusual word, get the dictionary out - or look on like Dictionary.com is a good place to start, or use another word.

Other common problems I have seen that can get in the way of my enjoyment if it happens too frequently: there/their, made/maid, and to/two/too swaps or words that sound similar but mean vastly different things.

There is Volunteer Editor group here. If you check elsewhere in this forum there is a list of alternate editors. Find a few and use them. But even with the volunteer editors remember that they have their own likes and opinions and you will need to learn how to tell the difference between what is a comment on your STYLE as opposed to a comment on grammar/sentence structure/paragraph flow.

As an example, you send me a story on Joe Cool at college and his conquest of girls. I may look at the order of how Joe Cool goes from being virgin to being the stud on campus and tell you that I would put incident G before incident D. That is just my style - you will need to decide if it sounds reasonable to you, or you can ask me why I think it belongs in that order.

But at the end of the day, when you submit your story, you are putting your ART on public display and like the Maplethorpe photos and the cow sections, it may not be everyones cup o' tea, but they will feel they have a right to comment publicly.

Keep writing, keep reading, it is how we improve our art.

S.

 

[Frotter]

reply to cyberkitten: Yes, I know what you mean...

I know what you mean, I've posted 3 stories and two of them have received public comments about my writing. These comments usually come very soon after the posting, so I think there are a bunch of proof reading types who actually read, vote and comment upon these stories based solely on the writing! Really now. One person actually sent me a missive telling me why they gave me a bad vote because of grammar!

Not that my writing can not stand improvement, but one has to wonder what it must be like to have sex with these people. Does talking dirty turn them off because they are offended by the slang? Does the seduction fall apart when you misuse a noun or adjective? They must be into anal, because they certianly act anal! It is irritating, but the funny part is I think they mean well, and I half suspect the people who created this site did so with the goal of teaching english to those of use who don't write well, knowing that since everyone is interested in sex they would have a wide audience of students...that's the only explanation I can think of. I actually got annonymous feedback from one person who read posted comments and told me I should "ignore the proofreading geniouses" (sic) because she wanted me to post more stories, and didn't want me to get discouraged by the comment someone had posted!

 

[Guest]

I know what you mean, I've posted 3 stories and two of them have received public comments about my writing. These comments usually come very soon after the posting, so I think there are a bunch of proof reading types who actually read, vote and comment upon these stories based solely on the writing! Really now. One person actually sent me a missive telling me why they gave me a bad vote because of grammar!

But at least that's an honest critique, yes? Grammatical errors do bother people, some to the extent of ruining the enjoyment of the story. I will give lower scores for multiple grammatical errors.

Not that my writing can not stand improvement, but one has to wonder what it must be like to have sex with these people. Does talking dirty turn them off because they are offended by the slang? Does the seduction fall apart when you misuse a noun or adjective? They must be into anal, because they certianly act anal!

Um, I'm into anal.

Oh - you mean critique! Not sex! OK. Never mind.

It is irritating, but the funny part is I think they mean well, and I half suspect the people who created this site did so with the goal of teaching english to those of use who don't write well, knowing that since everyone is interested in sex they would have a wide audience of students...that's the only explanation I can think of. I actually got annonymous feedback from one person who read posted comments and told me I should "ignore the proofreading geniouses" (sic) because she wanted me to post more stories, and didn't want me to get discouraged by the comment someone had posted!

Nope. It's just a porn site.

But Laurel and Manu want high quality erotica on their porn site, and the submission guidelines, the periodic contests and the serious attention to voting and public comments reflect that.

It has a side benefit of improving writing skills among the would-be authors, yes.

No discouragement intended. Just quality writing.

 

[Never]

CyberKitten221,
I looked over your stories and I'm wondering if people are complaining that you write your story in second person. I couldn't find spelling errors in the four stories I looked at, though I found two non-standard words (precum and womanness).

I think whoever sent you this feedback is yanking your chain.

 

[Frotter]

I know what you mean, look at this

Yes, I know what you mean. Look at this. It's a comment someone actually sent!

I only gave you a 3 because you need to use an editor. "Your" - indicating possesion. "You're" - a short for of 'you are'. Those common errors took away from the story. A good start to your story. Keep writing.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Yes, I know what you mean. Look at this. It's a comment someone actually sent!

I only gave you a 3 because you need to use an editor. "Your" - indicating possesion. "You're" - a short for of 'you are'. Those common errors took away from the story. A good start to your story. Keep writing.

I didn't read the story and I didn't leave the comment but it probably reflects my opinion. If I read a story and it includes one or two errors like that, I will ignore them. If it includes twenty or thirty, I might do just what the comment writer did. I would have to believe that the author did not think enough of his or her story to edit and proofread it, so I probably would not think much of it either.

Spellcheck WILL NOT catch errors like this; you have to proofread it yourself. You should edit a story several times anyhow and you should catch them when you do. If you can't catch such errors, you should turn the story over to an editor who can.

 

[Frotter]

reply to boxlicker

I didn't read the story and I didn't leave the comment but it probably reflects my opinion. If I read a story and it includes one or two errors like that, I will ignore them. If it includes twenty or thirty, I might do just what the comment writer did. I would have to believe that the author did not think enough of his or her story to edit and proofread it, so I probably would not think much of it either.

Spellcheck WILL NOT catch errors like this; you have to proofread it yourself. You should edit a story several times anyhow and you should catch them when you do. If you can't catch such errors, you should turn the story over to an editor who can.

YES, but the question opening this tread was "why do people read erotica?" and my personal opinion is that those who are reading it for the purpose of correcting my english are not the audience i'm writing for, i'm writing for people who want to enjoy the story. I also think it's presumtuous for you to assume i made 20 to 30 errors, but i suppose it's easier to express an opinion that agrees with yours if you can take the liberty of assumning facts favorable to your argument.

the point you make about editing a story several times is correct, assuming what you are writing is worth the effort. myself, i must decide how much energy i want to put into putting a porn story under a pen name that i am not being paid for on the web. my decision is i'd like to be read, bring enjoyment to some people, but rewriting seveal times for something like this is too time consuming, i actually have a life and the amount of time i'll devote to publishing porn is not going to be very big part of my life. some people enjoy the stories others don't, what do i care? i'm not trying to win a pulitzer (sic) i'm just trying to express some things i'm thinking about...

 

[CyberKitten221]

Thank you all for your opinions and thoughts on this subject. I know I'm not a professional writer but I've never claimed to be. I originally started this post because I was angry not that someone didn't like my stories but that they didn't sign their name to the email with the negative comments. However, I've read all you replies and I feel much better. I know my writing doesn't appeal to everyone and that's cool. There are many stories I've started to read but didn't finish because they weren't doing it for me.

Anyways, thanks again.

 

[Guest]

YES, but the question opening this tread was "why do people read erotica?" and my personal opinion is that those who are reading it for the purpose of correcting my english are not the audience i'm writing for, i'm writing for people who want to enjoy the story. I also think it's presumtuous for you to assume i made 20 to 30 errors, but i suppose it's easier to express an opinion that agrees with yours if you can take the liberty of assumning facts favorable to your argument.

the point you make about editing a story several times is correct, assuming what you are writing is worth the effort. myself, i must decide how much energy i want to put into putting a porn story under a pen name that i am not being paid for on the web. my decision is i'd like to be read, bring enjoyment to some people, but rewriting seveal times for something like this is too time consuming, i actually have a life and the amount of time i'll devote to publishing porn is not going to be very big part of my life. some people enjoy the stories others don't, what do i care? i'm not trying to win a pulitzer (sic) i'm just trying to express some things i'm thinking about...

And there is nothing wrong with writing in a manner which appeals to you.

Some people do minimal editing, some spend weeks on a story and I've seen a few stories around here that some didn't even bother to run through a spell checker. Ick.

I know these are just free stories on a porn site. But if the writer has no self-respect about their own writing, and even less for the readers, then they deserve to be slammed. And many of us are using this site as a stepping stone to further adventures; many have moved up and out and are receiving money for their work now.

And I should explain myself further about my previous post. I don't read stories searching for typos - god no. I read for enjoyment, or to comment on newer authors, or to read a friend's newest work, or to vote on contest stories.

If the typos are large and looming, if they overwhelm the story, then I will vote negatively. I'm not talking one or two words mispelled, or a few tense changes, or a few incorrect verb/noun combinations. I mean MAJOR errors, in which it is obvious that the author didn't even try.

I have given 1 votes, but believe me, the story deserved it. My vote range is usually 3's and 4's. Truly good work gets a 5, of course.

But if you don't want to put a lot of energy into the work here, you're going to have to accept less-than stellar voting scores. Readers here have come to expect fairly well-written erotica, and if your work suffers from grammatical problems, it probably will be voted down.

But if it's your decision not to spend a great deal of time editing, I don't understand why you are complaining about lower scores. Because that is inevitable.

 

[CyberKitten221]

And there is nothing wrong with writing in a manner which appeals to you.

Some people do minimal editing, some spend weeks on a story and I've seen a few stories around here that some didn't even bother to run through a spell checker. Ick.

I know these are just free stories on a porn site. But if the writer has no self-respect about their own writing, and even less for the readers, then they deserve to be slammed. And many of us are using this site as a stepping stone to further adventures; many have moved up and out and are receiving money for their work now.

And I should explain myself further about my previous post. I don't read stories searching for typos - god no. I read for enjoyment, or to comment on newer authors, or to read a friend's newest work, or to vote on contest stories.

If the typos are large and looming, if they overwhelm the story, then I will vote negatively. I'm not talking one or two words mispelled, or a few tense changes, or a few incorrect verb/noun combinations. I mean MAJOR errors, in which it is obvious that the author didn't even try.

I have given 1 votes, but believe me, the story deserved it. My vote range is usually 3's and 4's. Truly good work gets a 5, of course.

But if you don't want to put a lot of energy into the work here, you're going to have to accept less-than stellar voting scores. Readers here have come to expect fairly well-written erotica, and if your work suffers from grammatical problems, it probably will be voted down.

But if it's your decision not to spend a great deal of time editing, I don't understand why you are complaining about lower scores. Because that is inevitable.

I agree to a point. I put a lot of effort and time into my writing and I do spell check and grammar check. However, sometimes things do slip past me and mistakes are made. I enjoy writing so I mostly just write for my own pleasure but if the stories bring others pleasure that's a plus.

I agree that really bad writing shouldn't be rewarded with a high score and honest reviews can be helpful as long as it's not done to slam the writer or to hurt him or her. I like to know where I can improve but I do get offended if the advice is giving in a tone that makes me feel like the person giving it is talking down to me. A lot of time is it how something is said and not necessarily what is said.

Kitten

 

[Guest]

I agree to a point. I put a lot of effort and time into my writing and I do spell check and grammar check. However, sometimes things do slip past me and mistakes are made. I enjoy writing so I mostly just write for my own pleasure but if the stories bring others pleasure that's a plus.

I agree that really bad writing shouldn't be rewarded with a high score and honest reviews can be helpful as long as it's not done to slam the writer or to hurt him or her. I like to know where I can improve but I do get offended if the advice is giving in a tone that makes me feel like the person giving it is talking down to me. A lot of time is it how something is said and not necessarily what is said.

Kitten

Agreed.

Most of the authors on Lit do not slam stories for a couple of grammatical errors. There are a few . . .

I think most try to offer helpful advice - we've been through it, maybe this can help, etc. Hopefully you can use something from those comments - dump what you don't need.

Often those slams come from arrogant, troll-like readers who search the stories for something to down-vote. They also love to see their own "anonymous" and vicious ramblings on the public comment board.

It happens.

Delete 'em and forget 'em.

 

[Frotter]

I wasn't complaining about the score...

And there is nothing wrong with writing in a manner which appeals to you.

Some people do minimal editing, some spend weeks on a story and I've seen a few stories around here that some didn't even bother to run through a spell checker. Ick.

I know these are just free stories on a porn site. But if the writer has no self-respect about their own writing, and even less for the readers, then they deserve to be slammed. And many of us are using this site as a stepping stone to further adventures; many have moved up and out and are receiving money for their work now.

And I should explain myself further about my previous post. I don't read stories searching for typos - god no. I read for enjoyment, or to comment on newer authors, or to read a friend's newest work, or to vote on contest stories.

If the typos are large and looming, if they overwhelm the story, then I will vote negatively. I'm not talking one or two words mispelled, or a few tense changes, or a few incorrect verb/noun combinations. I mean MAJOR errors, in which it is obvious that the author didn't even try.

I have given 1 votes, but believe me, the story deserved it. My vote range is usually 3's and 4's. Truly good work gets a 5, of course.

But if you don't want to put a lot of energy into the work here, you're going to have to accept less-than stellar voting scores. Readers here have come to expect fairly well-written erotica, and if your work suffers from grammatical problems, it probably will be voted down.

But if it's your decision not to spend a great deal of time editing, I don't understand why you are complaining about lower scores. Because that is inevitable.

You misunderstood me. I just included the comment to show how absurd some people are. I don't really care that much about the score. I actually do quiet a bit of writing in the real world, and put much more time into editing, re-writing, and spell checking (I couldn't function without spell check), but when it come to these stories I am unable to devote that kind of time to them, and really am writing for a different purpose.

It's not that I don't value the input. If I didn't want feedback I'd shut off the public comments or delete them. I don't, I leave them up. But some of the folks seem to act as if they are superior because they've read Elements of Style (bet you thought I never knew of the book); and I feel like some of them are just being snobs. Honestly, it's porn, and that's all it is. That doesn't mean I don't take the advice and try to improve the writing, but I just think someone who'd write "I'm giving you this low score because you didn't use a adverb" is taking themselves a bit too seriously! I write here not for money, not to influence public opinion, and certianly not for a good grade, but just to share my experiences and fantasies that others that might enjoy them, so unattributed feedback from people trying to reprimand me for writing is not something I take too seriously.

 

[Frotter]

Yes, my point exactly...

I agree to a point. I put a lot of effort and time into my writing and I do spell check and grammar check. However, sometimes things do slip past me and mistakes are made. I enjoy writing so I mostly just write for my own pleasure but if the stories bring others pleasure that's a plus.

I agree that really bad writing shouldn't be rewarded with a high score and honest reviews can be helpful as long as it's not done to slam the writer or to hurt him or her. I like to know where I can improve but I do get offended if the advice is giving in a tone that makes me feel like the person giving it is talking down to me. A lot of time is it how something is said and not necessarily what is said.

Kitten

Exactly, some of these folks just like to act superior....

 

[Guest]

You misunderstood me. I just included the comment to show how absurd some people are. I don't really care that much about the score. I actually do quiet a bit of writing in the real world, and put much more time into editing, re-writing, and spell checking (I couldn't function without spell check), but when it come to these stories I am unable to devote that kind of time to them, and really am writing for a different purpose.

It's not that I don't value the input. If I didn't want feedback I'd shut off the public comments or delete them. I don't, I leave them up. But some of the folks seem to act as if they are superior because they've read Elements of Style (bet you thought I never knew of the book); and I feel like some of them are just being snobs. Honestly, it's porn, and that's all it is. That doesn't mean I don't take the advice and try to improve the writing, but I just think someone who'd write "I'm giving you this low score because you didn't use a adverb" is taking themselves a bit too seriously! I write here not for money, not to influence public opinion, and certianly not for a good grade, but just to share my experiences and fantasies that others that might enjoy them, so unattributed feedback from people trying to reprimand me for writing is not something I take too seriously.

Well said. And it works for you, so no problem!

(Laughing about Strunk's Elements - do you think some reader just finished their first writing course in college and wanted to spread the word on a porn site? )

 

[Frotter]

Well said. And it works for you, so no problem!

(Laughing about Strunk's Elements - do you think some reader just finished their first writing course in college and wanted to spread the word on a porn site? )

Perhaps....

 

[Boxlicker101]

Well said. And it works for you, so no problem!

(Laughing about Strunk's Elements - do you think some reader just finished their first writing course in college and wanted to spread the word on a porn site? )

I think there is another element, similar to the nitpickers over spelling etc. I call them "Professors of Literature" and they base their voting and comments on how literate the stories are. That is, how detailed is the plot, how well are the characters developed, etc. They tend to have a very low opinion of what I write because what I write is stroke. My stories don't usually have a plot, although a few of them do. I don't usually develop character. I just describe some people getting together and fucking and doing other fun things. That's what stroke is. I wish they would judge them on that basis.

 

[shiresa]

Seems to me

Erotica = Sex stories that are like normal sex. lots of foreplay (character building) plot development (several different positions) a climax (well... a climax) and a denoument (cuddling)

Smut = A quicky (wham bam thank you mam. dammit I am going to be late for work)

I have always enjoyed both kinds.

As far as people giving you editorial comments...

I am guilty of that. If I run across a typo or such it interrupts the flow of the story (kids walking into the room) and makes the story not as enjoyable. I put up a comment about it so the author can fix it and delete my comment.

But on the otherhand I do not vote down for minor grammar errors unless they are common enough to ruin the story (kids keep walking into the room over and over till you and your partner give up in frustration)

Anyway I hope this might help explain my view on it

 

[RhymeFairy]

Believe it or not I never intended writing *erotica~smut*
I had always read them ole trashy romance novels, and historical documents. The thing is I love to read. It's that simple.
A friend sent me the link to Lit. in the hopes of getting me *excited* enough to *be* with him, again. The funny thing... I was never with him after that. I started chatting in chat. I met a fellow Lit member in there. She was *raving* about her new poems ...
I had taken Honors Eng., also some classes on Classic Lit.~ Moderen..~ etc..
So I was more than interested in reading her poems. That they say, was that.
I was hooked on the Challenges, and the threads. Meeting all these new people ... friends. This sight, to me, is very addictive. I have to read what everyone is writing. Then I have to write... To me it is *purging* I love writing.

So in answer to your question ... Curiosity killed tha cat ... me thinks~

just my humble opinion~

 

[Frotter]

how does one fix a story once published?

Seems to me

...

I am guilty of that. If I run across a typo or such it interrupts the flow of the story (kids walking into the room) and makes the story not as enjoyable. I put up a comment about it so the author can fix it and delete my comment.

THANK YOU. Question: Can the story be "fixed" after posting? If so how does one do that??

 

[Guest]

Seems to me

...

I am guilty of that. If I run across a typo or such it interrupts the flow of the story (kids walking into the room) and makes the story not as enjoyable. I put up a comment about it so the author can fix it and delete my comment.

THANK YOU. Question: Can the story be "fixed" after posting? If so how does one do that??

Resubmit your story - same title - and put EDITED after the title. I'd also put EDITED in the Notes Section on the submissions page.

It takes the same amount of time to post changes as it does to post a new story.

 

[Frotter]

Thank you for this...

Resubmit your story - same title - and put EDITED after the title. I'd also put EDITED in the Notes Section on the submissions page.

It takes the same amount of time to post changes as it does to post a new story.

THANK YOU, and vy the wat, in reply to the note you sent, i wasn't complaining about you i just wrote to you cause you seemed to know who the folks were and i was curious about there background...