Why is there so little honesty about sex?

[midwestyankee]

Yes, Stella, I, for one, do think you're brave.

And you can't change my mind.

Word.

I don't think there are any new points to be made here, though we may hear from others with very interesting perspectives and that will be fun. The thing is, many couples have trouble communicating about how they like their toast in the morning or how the balance of household chores should be arranged. Is it any wonder that many couples also have trouble communicating about sex?

I also think there's a second layer of meaning in these "how can I" posts: a layer defined by coercion and deception.

I think one reason why we regulars sometimes roll our eyes at the "How can I make my..." threads is in the way they're framed. Perhaps we are responding to the underlying theme of coercion and deception. I wonder how much differently we might react when the OP is framed in a different way, perhaps like this: "In recent months I've begun to realize that I have a dominant/submissive preference in sex. My partner has always been reluctant to try new things in the bedroom. He and I have always had trouble talking about sex so I wonder if anyone here could help me out. I'd like to find a way to incorporate my new desires into our relationship. Has anyone else gone through this?"

I do have one conjecture about this framing. I wonder how much of the "How can I force A to become more like ..." framing comes from pornography and low-grade erotica where themes of semi-forced non-consensual kink are not uncommon.

 

[switchbitch]

Word.

I don't think there are any new points to be made here, though we may hear from others with very interesting perspectives and that will be fun. The thing is, many couples have trouble communicating about how they like their toast in the morning or how the balance of household chores should be arranged. Is it any wonder that many couples also have trouble communicating about sex?

I also think there's a second layer of meaning in these "how can I" posts: a layer defined by coercion and deception.

I think one reason why we regulars sometimes roll our eyes at the "How can I make my..." threads is in the way they're framed. Perhaps we are responding to the underlying theme of coercion and deception. I wonder how much differently we might react when the OP is framed in a different way, perhaps like this: "In recent months I've begun to realize that I have a dominant/submissive preference in sex. My partner has always been reluctant to try new things in the bedroom. He and I have always had trouble talking about sex so I wonder if anyone here could help me out. I'd like to find a way to incorporate my new desires into our relationship. Has anyone else gone through this?"

I do have one conjecture about this framing. I wonder how much of the "How can I force A to become more like ..." framing comes from pornography and low-grade erotica where themes of semi-forced non-consensual kink are not uncommon.

I think you may have several valid points.perhaps it is the manner of framing the question. And obviously if you don't understand the dynamic framing the question could indeed be difficult. Thank you for that thought.

 

[welkin]

I think one reason why we regulars sometimes roll our eyes at the "How can I make my..." threads is in the way they're framed. Perhaps we are responding to the underlying theme of coercion and deception. I wonder how much differently we might react when the OP is framed in a different way, perhaps like this: "In recent months I've begun to realize that I have a dominant/submissive preference in sex. My partner has always been reluctant to try new things in the bedroom. He and I have always had trouble talking about sex so I wonder if anyone here could help me out. I'd like to find a way to incorporate my new desires into our relationship. Has anyone else gone through this?"

Eh, I'd think it's because you have a length limit to post titles so one makes the title short and direct, which comes through as rude or demanding... Usually they do go on to explain the circumstances in a more palatable manner.

That aside, I think the "get her to do this" comes from a misunderstanding of how easy or hard it is to accommodate a sex preference. For example, if a guy reads and sees a lot of anal sex in porn, and when he comes to a forum such as literotica where plenty of women are super uber enthusiastic about it, he might think anal is a "given". I mean, all the other women are doing it right? So surely she isn't any different! So there is that wishful thinking "she's only saying no because she's shy or unwilling to step out of her comfort zone, she'll really like it if she just gives it a try!" And he could very well be right, he might be doing her a favor if she tried it and liked it. Call me naive, but in none of this do I think there is intentional malice of the "I know she doesn't like this but I want to make her do this nonetheless" type.

I say we should give these people the benefit of doubt...

-- obviously biased, struggling with communication herself.

 

[welkin]

In addition to fear of rejection, depending on the request, there is also the fear of hurting the other person. Sometimes we know the other person is already trying hard to please us, and we fear that asking more of them would make us look greedy or imply that what they gave before is not good enough or even good. And we fear that even if they reject and we accept the rejection, they might not be okay with it as they'll always have the "I can't give him or her what s/he wanted" looming over them.

Not saying the above fear is the paradigm of a good relationship, but who lives in a perfect world anyway?

 

[mrtomthumb]

Why is there so little honesty about sex?
There are so many threads that ask questions like ‘how do I get my girlfriend/wife to do….. to me? Or how do I make my boyfriend/husband more dominant/submissive?
There are so many that want to know how to connive or inveigle or manipulate a significant other to do or behave in a different way sexually. To me this is inherently dishonest either by omission or commission you are in effect lying to your partner. And worse by trying to manipulate the situation without honesty it feels the same as acting without consent.

Is it simple cowardice that prevents people asking for what they need openly and honestly?

Are so many people are afraid that someone may not be able to cope with their darkest desires?

Why is this so prevalent?

Why do so many find it difficult to be honest about their desires?

I understand a certain hesitancy when you are still experimenting and trying to find out what it is that you do or don't like, but if you do know what you like why hide it?
is it so difficult to say 'Darling I want you to fuck my arse'or 'sweetheart I need to be spanked hard'or even' that's not quite how I enjoy oral sex I can show you how I do'or any other particular desires that you have?

as to the nature of the question coming from someone who is very far on the otherside on being open about their sexuality..( not a judgment,,I think that is a great way to be) you must know that it is more uncommon to be so open
than common.


I am one who thinks himself to be open about what I think is acceptable..as is most everyone.

I feel every person has a particular barometer of what they find to be "normal"

I always think of this thread where someone was speaking about a particular fetish that to me seemed pretty tame while another poster was saying it was gross and totally judging the person..

in the same page the poster who was all up in arms was describing sticking his fist up someone ass...

to me that seemed way more extreme behavior than what was being discussed...

to me.

to this person fisting was fine and this other thing was totally out of bounds..

it is all perception,

I try to not judge and have learned with time that my own partner while being very closed off about discussing sex is pretty much a perv in the bedroom.

I used to wish to change this and have come to realize that is her makeup and it probably wont change.

maybe it is part of the thrill to seem one way and then act another..

that is why I dabble here to be able to discuss things in a manner which I like.

also I think that sometimes people post bogus questions to hear a discussion about a topic that turns them on..

like "how do I get my wife to fuck me in the ass with a strap on ?"

that person could hear all kinds of people discuss a topic that interests him and maybe "get off" on it. I am sure the person knows you have to say

"honey will you fuck my ass with a strap on ?"

maybe he already gets fucked and likes to hear about others experiences maybe he is afraid to ask..

the one that boggles me is women fantasizing about other women that just will not go do it..

it is almost common now ..

I also realize my own perception is from the outside and have no real insight to the reality of it.

 

[waiting4sunset]

i understand

I can understand why people would not be so open as to tell their partner everything. I have had good friends insult me and ostracize me for my opinions in the past, and now it is hard for me to be honest and myself with anyone about anything, because i am afraid that it would happen again.

To be totally open requires a high level of trust in your partner, and for anyone who has that level of trust and openness, i am sure it is a beautiful thing.

 

[Scotsman69]

A beautiful things indeed...

I can understand why people would not be so open as to tell their partner everything. I have had good friends insult me and ostracize me for my opinions in the past, and now it is hard for me to be honest and myself with anyone about anything, because i am afraid that it would happen again.

To be totally open requires a high level of trust in your partner, and for anyone who has that level of trust and openness, i am sure it is a beautiful thing.

I've been in such a relationship with my partner for almost three years now. We truly tell each other EVERYTHING. Tis the most beautiful thing that's ever happened to me.

 

[brokensub]

I never believe that people tell their significant others EVERYTHING. I simply cannot believe it. Besides the fact that not everyone wants to know every single solitary thing. There are things like thoughts and actions that make people individuals and sharing each and every thought with a partner makes that, well, a total yawn.

Sorry Scotsman, but I don't believe it. You may share much, but EVERYTHING? I doubt it.

 

[rosco rathbone]

keep sex evil

I don't want to live in a shame free sex positive world. That sounds about as exciting as Oslo.

 

[eastern sun]

I don't want to live in a shame free sex positive world. That sounds about as exciting as Oslo.

Most of my sexual excitement is built on crossing the lines that shame draws in the sand. If there were no lines, the excitement would be profoundly compromised.

 

[HeyAll]

It's because you have to live with that person and obviously (well, hopefully) think very highly of them, and if that person is creeped out by what you're asking, that would be a really embarassing thing that would never be forgotten.

It's not like going to the doctor and telling what your problems are since you'll never see that person outside of the hospital.

But the key is to bring it up slowly so that it isn't a huge shocker.

 

[midwestyankee]

Quite a few folks have offered the explanation that it can be intimidating to think about revealing your (perhaps now different?) inner-most desires to your partner.

But this begs the question: what if you and your partner had been completely honest with one another about sex from the very beginning of the relationship? Wouldn't that make the discovery of new kinds of desires ever so much easier?

 

[Chiara_searches]

Quite a few folks have offered the explanation that it can be intimidating to think about revealing your (perhaps now different?) inner-most desires to your partner.

But this begs the question: what if you and your partner had been completely honest with one another about sex from the very beginning of the relationship? Wouldn't that make the discovery of new kinds of desires ever so much easier?

I second this.

I never want the boring sex life I had with the ex. I'm purposefully seeking out a partner that will be open to all kinds of exploration. Having broached it once already with someone, I will say it is still a scary proposition for diving into with someone new. Yet, I'd rather know sooner than later if there's a possible match because I just don't see wasting my time on something that will not result in me getting exactly what I want or need. Sure there will have to be some compromises, but I'm aiming for closer to my bullseye this time.

 

[Scotsman69]

Oslo...

I don't want to live in a shame free sex positive world. That sounds about as exciting as Oslo.

Is in fact a very lively and sexually active city. Not quite up with Amsterdam perhaps, but close...

 

[welkin]

Quite a few folks have offered the explanation that it can be intimidating to think about revealing your (perhaps now different?) inner-most desires to your partner.

But this begs the question: what if you and your partner had been completely honest with one another about sex from the very beginning of the relationship? Wouldn't that make the discovery of new kinds of desires ever so much easier?

I was thinking about that... but when and how do you do it? Do you sit the other person down after a couple of dates, "I like you but I won't go further with you unless we are sexually compatible, so let's talk about my fetishes and yours"?

It seems tricky to me. You have to be close enough in order to
1. be comfortable enough to have the conversation. Some people might think it rude or intrusive to discuss fetishes too early in the relationship, even if they'd be okay with it otherwise.
2. know the other person well enough to have the confidence that they won't turn your confession against you. Some fetishes can be more damaging than others...

And yet not so close that
1. revealing a fetish (or the lack of) makes the other person feel deceived.
2. a mismatch in desires leads to a devastating breakup.

So yeah... advice?

 

[midwestyankee]

I was thinking about that... but when and how do you do it? Do you sit the other person down after a couple of dates, "I like you but I won't go further with you unless we are sexually compatible, so let's talk about my fetishes and yours"?

It seems tricky to me. You have to be close enough in order to
1. be comfortable enough to have the conversation. Some people might think it rude or intrusive to discuss fetishes too early in the relationship, even if they'd be okay with it otherwise.
2. know the other person well enough to have the confidence that they won't turn your confession against you. Some fetishes can be more damaging than others...

And yet not so close that
1. revealing a fetish (or the lack of) makes the other person feel deceived.
2. a mismatch in desires leads to a devastating breakup.

So yeah... advice?

Choose the more attractive option:

A. You date enough times to become very close to many person who may or may not share your sexual preferences and may well toss you out to the curb when you bring up your desire to tie them up/be tied up etc.

B. You go on a lot of interesting first and second dates but your heart stays intact because you don't have to break off any seemingly promising relationships because you, oh yeah, forgot to mention your kink early on.

 

[welkin]

So by both options, you really just mean, date a lot of people at the same time to avoid the heartbreak?

 

[Chiara_searches]

So by both options, you really just mean, date a lot of people at the same time to avoid the heartbreak?

I think the A approach is date people knowing you risk rejection when you talk about something as fundamental to our overall well being as sex (at least in my book it's pretty important).

I'm trying to approach it that I risk rejection at any point in the dating spectrum from politics, to how people just perceive the "Chiara" package, to my profession, to my sexual desires. Why should rejection over one of these possibilities be any different/harder than rejection over another? If they don't like that I'm liberal and I'm rejected for that, why is it any different than if I'm rejected for my sexual appetites?

To me its about searching for that person that you can become completely unguarded with...and discovering that potential has to start small and somewhere. Perhaps you don't have to roll out the Cosmo list of "this is what I want done and won't do" but you can start laying the openness foundation by delving into things in an open and honest way. You share something, he or she shares something, a give an take, yin/yang dance. If he or she isn't into the sharing, they've taken a step away from the dance and that's your cue to question if this is the person with whom you should share further. I don't think every single thing has to be spelled out in one conversation.

I don't know...that's my plan and a majority of my methodology from broaching it once before.

Perhaps much of the hesitancy comes from the social construct that sex shouldn't be discussed. But I think a lot of the point is that we could have healthier relationships from earlier on if sex is discussed. Or that's my interpretation at least.

 

[wicked woman]

Quite a few folks have offered the explanation that it can be intimidating to think about revealing your (perhaps now different?) inner-most desires to your partner.

But this begs the question: what if you and your partner had been completely honest with one another about sex from the very beginning of the relationship? Wouldn't that make the discovery of new kinds of desires ever so much easier?

Definitely agree. It's certainly my preferred way.

I was thinking about that... but when and how do you do it? Do you sit the other person down after a couple of dates, "I like you but I won't go further with you unless we are sexually compatible, so let's talk about my fetishes and yours"?

It seems tricky to me. You have to be close enough in order to
1. be comfortable enough to have the conversation. Some people might think it rude or intrusive to discuss fetishes too early in the relationship, even if they'd be okay with it otherwise.
2. know the other person well enough to have the confidence that they won't turn your confession against you. Some fetishes can be more damaging than others...

And yet not so close that
1. revealing a fetish (or the lack of) makes the other person feel deceived.
2. a mismatch in desires leads to a devastating breakup.

So yeah... advice?

I don't profess to have all of the answers, but I've never found it very difficult to discover if someone is open minded about sex, even fairly early on in a relationship. You don't have to give away all of your secrets to discover that. Listening carefully to a person's responses/reactions to various general questions about sex and sexual relationships can be a fairly good indicator. Being open minded is crucial to me. With that basis, as well as trust, respect, and caring, that is part of all successful relationships, there is a pretty good chance that we will be able to be honest with each other about sex....our desires and wishes.

 

[waiting4sunset]

I think complete openness isn't something that should happen right away, rather it should develop as people get to know and trust each other. I'm not about to go up to a complete stranger and tell them everything about me, but if i am in a relationship for a while, i would become more and more open, and tell more.

 

[DamianCain]

Most of my sexual excitement is built on crossing the lines that shame draws in the sand. If there were no lines, the excitement would be profoundly compromised.

...That moment when you realize that you must live across that line to live at all, and are able to jettison the shame for acceptance of your powerless over your desires and the punishment that comes with them, is perhaps where the true liberation and excitement lies.

 

[eastern sun]

...That moment when you realize that you must live across that line to live at all, and are able to jettison the shame for acceptance of your powerless over the desires and the punishment that comes with them, is perhaps where the true liberation and excitement lies.

So what does life look like living on the other side of that line?

 

[Stella_Omega]

So what does life look like living on the other side of that line?

You have to pay yummy tax. The yummy collectors come to your door once a month.

But there's less paperwork.

 

[eastern sun]

You have to pay yummy tax. The yummy collectors come to your door once a month.

But there's less paperwork.

So we must be talking about a whole different currency exchange, hunh?

 

[DamianCain]

So what does life look like living on the other side of that line?

I don't know what it looks like but

It feels like sweet surrender,
Where, on a soft pillow
Of deep feather-light sadness
You lie perfectly
Exquisitely...
Still.