Why is there so little honesty about sex?

[Loverskitten]

Here ya go, in the BDSM cafe
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=718575
Click away

 

[dicky911]

This thread really struck a chord with me, especially since my needs have shifted over the past few years. I was very honest and open with my husband about it. I tried explaining, even wrote an explicit story to help him understand what I was asking for. I tried to make it fun and exciting.

It's been an unqualified disaster. So honesty? Not a big fan. All those honest, playful discussions disintegrated and darling hubby went out and had an affair last year. I'd leave - after all, I don't trust him now and don't dare share my naughty fantasies, let alone unhappiness - but after 15 yrs as a stay-at-home mom, helping him run and expand our business, I couldn't get a job to save my life. I know, I tried. So I put on a sweet smile, bite my tongue hard enough to draw blood and try my best to make him feel like a big stud in the bedroom so he's happy.

hey this is no way to be!

 

[switchbitch]

I'm always as honest as I feel I can be, because it's in the best interest of all concerned. It's a part of getting close. If I don't feel I can be honest, there's probably something between us that is causing that. Maybe it's something she's said in conversation or a reaction she had to something I said, etc. That tells me we aren't as close as I'd like. As time goes on and if the relationship continues, hopefully some cautious commutation will resolve differences.

I HATE holding my tongue or not being able to say anything I want to someone I want I consider a close friend and possible sexual partner. I enjoy complete exchange of personalities whenever possible, or at least nothing to hinder that exchange. That requires communication before the fact, exploring likes and dislikes, limits, etc.

Some might see my ways as sensory overload before any real senses are involved if not just time consuming. I see it as a part of foreplay. If I can't enjoy someone my way, it becomes just a physical sex act. While that isn't necessarily a bad thing, there's room for so much more.

as usual DVS you put the point not only succinctly but artistically thank you

 

[switchbitch]

So, you're saying you'd engage in oral sex or rimming with a female giraffe? Ummmm, kinky.


One ponders...what does a giraffe sound like when they climax?


Oral Giraffe:

When a man does a handstand on top of a step stool making him that much taller, and receives a blowjob (Oral Sex) from a man or woman. His butt cheeks will also be massaged and played with.



Animal Courting and Mating Habits

The male ELEPHANT locks in on a female, gets on his knees, and proceeds to beg her for sex until she gives in.

The male DOLPHIN employs the T. Edison method: he screws anything and everything in sight—from fish to water—in hopes of somehow finding his penis’s way into a female dolphin.

PANDAS won’t so much as touch each other until they’ve read an instruction manual.

Oddly enough, TURTLES are lightning fast in bed, going in and out at a rate of 437 times per second, and doing the entire deed (including post sex cuddling) dozens of times in a matter of minutes. However, their courtships often last upwards of forty years, and require couples to watch movies that neither the male nor the female wants to see.

EMPEROR PENGUINS get busy from 12:00 to 12:02 AM each Valentine’s Day, and spend the rest of the year masturbating to the memory of those two minutes.

Female PORCUPINES are in the mood less often than the Cubs win the World Series—but when they want it, they want the works, and will go so far as to toss aside a male lover for a new one as soon as he shows any sign of tiring. Interestingly enough, porcupine courtships are almost identical to those of humans: the male urinates on the female, and the female uses the information to make her decision.

Male BOWERBIRDS will actually build a BMW out of twigs and leaves just to attract a female.

The male ARGENTINE LAKE DUCK uses his unusually long penis to perform rope tricks in front of his desired female.

Immediately after sexual intercourse, the female PRAYING MANTIS glues herself to the male and attempts to nag him to death.

BONOBOS go at it so often with so many partners and in so many different ways that you’d swear they were starring some sort of porno film.

The male RIGHT WHALE spends about three hours getting his eighty ton body in position for sex—and he usually ends up ejaculating his 42 million gallon load before making it anywhere even remotely close to a vagina.

Male and female GIRAFFES demand oral sex from their partners on a regular basis, notwithstanding the physical difficulties and resulting neck pain.

this made me laugh so hard I fell off the chair

 

[amofiga]

Honesty requires complete trust. First, there is trust in your partner that you won't be laughed at, or be humiliated, or be made to feel foolish or perverted by your partner. Second is trust your partner has in you that you won't laugh at, degrade, humiliate, or invalidate them as a person.

It's easier said than done. I knew a woman whose husband made her feel foolish and perverted and even suggested that "she see a shrink to get her head examined" just because she wanted to blow her husband in the car while they drove down the highway to visit their kid at college and because she wanted to fuck out by their pool in daylight (they did have a fence). Unfortunately, they are no longer married....not just because of the above, but that was a symptom of the greater underlying lack of respect or trust. I think most people are afraid to bare their souls. It's much easier to let someone see your naked body than your naked soul.

 

[kittysub]

Honesty requires complete trust. First, there is trust in your partner that you won't be laughed at, or be humiliated, or be made to feel foolish or perverted by your partner. Second is trust your partner has in you that you won't laugh at, degrade, humiliate, or invalidate them as a person.

It's easier said than done. I knew a woman whose husband made her feel foolish and perverted and even suggested that "she see a shrink to get her head examined" just because she wanted to blow her husband in the car while they drove down the highway to visit their kid at college and because she wanted to fuck out by their pool in daylight (they did have a fence). Unfortunately, they are no longer married....not just because of the above, but that was a symptom of the greater underlying lack of respect or trust. I think most people are afraid to bare their souls. It's much easier to let someone see your naked body than your naked soul.

The last line is as beautiful as it is true. Since my soul is now behind an iron curtain, I wonder how much longer my marriage can possibly last.

I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts on what can be a sensitive issue. It's been insightful and inspiring, if at times painful. So thank you for your honesty.

 

[switchbitch]

Honesty requires complete trust. First, there is trust in your partner that you won't be laughed at, or be humiliated, or be made to feel foolish or perverted by your partner. Second is trust your partner has in you that you won't laugh at, degrade, humiliate, or invalidate them as a person.

It's easier said than done. I knew a woman whose husband made her feel foolish and perverted and even suggested that "she see a shrink to get her head examined" just because she wanted to blow her husband in the car while they drove down the highway to visit their kid at college and because she wanted to fuck out by their pool in daylight (they did have a fence). Unfortunately, they are no longer married....not just because of the above, but that was a symptom of the greater underlying lack of respect or trust. I think most people are afraid to bare their souls. It's much easier to let someone see your naked body than your naked soul.

I really liked this post it carefully delineates why many people fear to be honest. On the flip side of the coin it also delineates why people should be honest, the example that you gave clearly shows that honesty earlier could have saved much heartbreak. If you cannot be honest with your partner without fear who can you be honest with?is it really a partner if you can't be honest with them?
I think that many of us fear to be shamed by what we desire, particularly by those we care deeply for. So many societal norms tell us not to discuss openly our sexual proclivities and desires so we keep them hidden awaylike a jack in a box with a slow turning handle until the spring winds so tight jack has to burst out of the box often scaring the shit out of our unsuspecting partner. How much more sensible to be honest early in a relationship before your hearts are so deeply entwined.
I do not mean to say that it is easy in any way to bare your secrets to another, it is an act of courage. Nor do your desires necessarily stay the same all through your life. Many develop needs over time but if you have the pattern of honesty with each other from the very beginning, an understanding of those changing desires seems far more likely doesn't it?
It seems that In almost every relationship ,where I have observed this pattern of courageous honesty , last longer and happier. And conversely those that hide themselves experience much heartache and often separation.
I guess I am musing here, wondering how we can make this easier, how can we as a society make this easier?

 

[Loverskitten]

I really liked this post it carefully delineates why many people fear to be honest. On the flip side of the coin it also delineates why people should be honest, the example that you gave clearly shows that honesty earlier could have saved much heartbreak. If you cannot be honest with your partner without fear who can you be honest with?is it really a partner if you can't be honest with them?
I think that many of us fear to be shamed by what we desire, particularly by those we care deeply for. So many societal norms tell us not to discuss openly our sexual proclivities and desires so we keep them hidden awaylike a jack in a box with a slow turning handle until the spring winds so tight jack has to burst out of the box often scaring the shit out of our unsuspecting partner. How much more sensible to be honest early in a relationship before your hearts are so deeply entwined.
I do not mean to say that it is easy in any way to bare your secrets to another, it is an act of courage. Nor do your desires necessarily stay the same all through your life. Many develop needs over time but if you have the pattern of honesty with each other from the very beginning, an understanding of those changing desires seems far more likely doesn't it?
It seems that In almost every relationship ,where I have observed this pattern of courageous honesty , last longer and happier. And conversely those that hide themselves experience much heartache and often separation.
I guess I am musing here, wondering how we can make this easier, how can we as a society make this easier?

Well said, I'm all for early discussion, especially hard limits. For example, I don't like to share so if a guys fantasy is to bring in another woman, I know I can never fulfill it so why would I move on knowing I'd deny him his fantasy. I would also like the same respect. Why sign up for a lifetime of disappointment

 

[Stella_Omega]

I assume you are being rhetorical, switchbitch, because your questions answer themselves, merely in the way that you've worded them.

"cowardice' is a pretty damning word. "Fear" might be more compassionate, and there is nothing simple about fear.
And yes, people are terrified of making changes in relationships. Duh.

yes.
It's prevalent because its prevalent. Just like so many women wear lipstick-- because so many women wear lipstick. it's normative.
Because it's terrifying.
Because opening up about it can upset the balance of a relationship.
Yes, it most certainly is very difficult.

For instance about a year ago, I talked with my family about going into gender transition.

My kids are okay with this.

My husband's first words were; "Well, I've known since the day I met you, you told me that you were a guy on the inside. But I'm not gay. And the divorce..."

I gave him material to look at, and he mostly refused to do any research on my account. He withheld sex for months. He refused to talk about anything-- family matters, my preferences, if I was giving him driving directions and I said "turn left" he'd turn right.

At one point he said; "Well, who would I be married to?"

I said "the same person you've lived with for more than thirty years-- Who might feel better about themselves if their outsides and insides matched up a little bit more."

He said "well, I wouldn't feel better."

So it was all about him.

We are still rebuilding trust and balance, a year later. I am still extremely hurt, angry, discouraged. A divorce is still a possibility.

Now admittedly, gender reassignment is way out there in the scheme of things. but we are already open about sex-- or so I had thought.

There's always something, and someone else's something might be a lot smaller than mine but loom absolutely as large for them.

You all think I'm pretty brave putting myself out there? I'm no braver than anyone else, and there are things that I'm too *cough*cowardly*cough* to face.

An update on this situation; after a year of steadily decreasing communication and less and less sexual interest between us, I separated from him and have been living on my aged parent's sofa since just about the beginning of the month. Enough is enough.

This is not happy fun times.

 

[switchbitch]

An update on this situation; after a year of steadily decreasing communication and less and less sexual interest between us, I separated from him and have been living on my aged parent's sofa since just about the beginning of the month. Enough is enough.

This is not happy fun times.

kisses and hugs sending your way

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

An update on this situation; after a year of steadily decreasing communication and less and less sexual interest between us, I separated from him and have been living on my aged parent's sofa since just about the beginning of the month. Enough is enough.

This is not happy fun times.

I am sorry this is happening and hard for you, but it is so important to love and care for ourselves. Please be gentle and take good care of you as you walk toward a much newer and less than certain future. It is tough to take that leap, but you are so worth it. Hang in there!

 

[Stella_Omega]

thanks, guys, it sure feels like stepping off of a cliff! Past middle age and all.

But I really want to point out that this is one reason why there is "so little honesty about sex." There really are real consequences sometimes, that are waaaaay out of proportion to the sex one has been honest about.

Of course, my gender is only one of the points of distension that have grown up between us. That would be true for everyone, I'm sure-- but it can be the final straw.

 

[StrayKat]

thanks, guys, it sure feels like stepping off of a cliff! Past middle age and all.

It does, doesnt it?
Been there once, probably heading a second time, and while neither lasted 30 years they were still not instant thing, well past 10 years each.
It is hard but it is hard the way cutting out the tumor is hard, can only get better past certain point. Feels like that for me at least.

 

[Kikori]

People are quite often afraid of judgment, and people are quite often placing themselves into a position to judge. Somewhere like here, we're the "misfits" who either have been judged, or wouldn't judge because we understand it's something that shouldn't be so negatively reacted to. The amount of experience, open mindedness, willingness to test, or understanding of the end result 'pleasure' being the goal is a big problem for the "normal" people to grasp. Guarantee you nine people out of ten would think a woman with a whip gets more pleasure out of actually inflicting pain than the more underlying tones of marking a slave or having the power in her hands to do so. And my bet is that out of those nine people, probably eight would have a very hard time grasping the concept without a lot of awkward conversation, possible demonstration & discomfort, and judgmental behavior towards the person trying to be honest.

Not to mention the common opinion on a lot of aspects of non-vanilla play. When the stereotype for bondage is being chained up and abused, masters & mistresses are little more than sadistic and cruel people in leather, and even biting necks or pulling hair isn't "vanilla", it can become a daunting idea to bring up anything further than the same old things one grew up used to. Add onto that how different peoples' opinions are on the importance of pleasure, and even with a trusting partner with amazing chemistry as people you may end up with a guy who will never get a lady to so much as bend over for her spankings because she's just not into sex that much.

There really are real consequences sometimes, that are waaaaay out of proportion to the sex one has been honest about.

He to she: "Will you sit on my face?"
Her to him: "The fuck are you talking about? If you want to go down on me, then go, but what the hell would doing that get other than breaking your head or something?"
Guy to gal: "..." ('Apparently an argument and some disappointment.' )
[/improvised example]

 

[gregy70]

The wife knows all my secrets / desires / fantasies & kinks.
She was fine with them but she'd remind me that there my fantasies & not hers.

I remember the first time I'd asked her to cock slap me & take control. She did it thoroughly but the idear of me wanting it all the time wasn't something she wanted.
I'd left it alone & the other day she just done it unprovoked & she's done it every day since (3 days now) & seems to have liked doing it .

Maybe after the initial shock, let time pass & you never know, dreams can come true.

 

[Kurokami]

The wife and I have always had an incredibly honest relationship, even in the early days. I think we both sort of made a silent promise to ourselves, once it became clear just how much we liked each other, to make it work. On my part that's because I'm still a little surprised I ended up with her, though I can't speak to her motivation. All's I know is, it works.

It's been a few years now since we started experimenting sexually, and I remember the first time really clearly because she asked me, point blank, if there was something weird I wanted to try with her. Now, I'd always thought of the things I was into as aberrant and too violent for anyone to accept, and if I wanted to be in a healthy relationship I'd keep my damn mouth shut about them, but she cajoled and prodded past my initial resistance to the idea, and got me to spill. And...

No judgement.

Like, at all. She shrugged and said okay. It was a night we both hugely enjoyed. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've got a woman who'll listen to me talk about the things I like if not with interest, than at least with acceptance. Maybe these types of people are more common than one would think, assuming you're willing to open up to them. It just requires an agreement to be honest in a safe environment, confident that you won't be judged. And that's a two way street; I have no idea what might have happened to us if I hadn't made an effort to return the attitude my girl had given me that first time. In all honesty, I've had some pretty mindblowing experiences because we've both felt safe to share things like that.

But I always feel like I need to add a caveat to these things: I haven't had that much experience with relationships outside of the wife, so who knows if my experience is the same, or even helpful? Just my two cents, I guess.

 

[Loverskitten]

The wife and I have always had an incredibly honest relationship, even in the early days. I think we both sort of made a silent promise to ourselves, once it became clear just how much we liked each other, to make it work. On my part that's because I'm still a little surprised I ended up with her, though I can't speak to her motivation. All's I know is, it works.

It's been a few years now since we started experimenting sexually, and I remember the first time really clearly because she asked me, point blank, if there was something weird I wanted to try with her. Now, I'd always thought of the things I was into as aberrant and too violent for anyone to accept, and if I wanted to be in a healthy relationship I'd keep my damn mouth shut about them, but she cajoled and prodded past my initial resistance to the idea, and got me to spill. And...

No judgement.

Like, at all. She shrugged and said okay. It was a night we both hugely enjoyed. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've got a woman who'll listen to me talk about the things I like if not with interest, than at least with acceptance. Maybe these types of people are more common than one would think, assuming you're willing to open up to them. It just requires an agreement to be honest in a safe environment, confident that you won't be judged. And that's a two way street; I have no idea what might have happened to us if I hadn't made an effort to return the attitude my girl had given me that first time. In all honesty, I've had some pretty mindblowing experiences because we've both felt safe to share things like that.

But I always feel like I need to add a caveat to these things: I haven't had that much experience with relationships outside of the wife, so who knows if my experience is the same, or even helpful? Just my two cents, I guess.

Reading this made me feel all warm and fuzzy. See, Lit is packed with "how do I tell my S.O. I want _____" posts and ya know what else it's filled with? Posts from people in lonely, loveless marriages. Coincidence? Hmmmm
Thanks for sharing, I desperately hope to find a true partner like you have.

 

[Kurokami]

Reading this made me feel all warm and fuzzy. See, Lit is packed with "how do I tell my S.O. I want _____" posts and ya know what else it's filled with? Posts from people in lonely, loveless marriages. Coincidence? Hmmmm
Thanks for sharing, I desperately hope to find a true partner like you have.

Oh, well thank you.

Honestly, I'm often a little worried that my posts here about my wife- and latterly my kids- come across as repetitive and saccharine, but I guess that's just how I perceive the world; I always try to find the ways in which I have wronged it.

Much as I hate to admit it, that may actually be the creamy madness center of my last post: since I'm always apologetic toward reality and the people therein, I'm on the back foot constantly, and more likely to accept weirdness from my partner just out of a fear of making waves. Ah, anxiety... where would I be without you?

 

[Shadow Thief]

I don't post much these days, but I figured I'd chime in on this one...

It sucks when you can't be honest and open about sex and other things, and sadly, my own wife is included in that category. Last time I tried to talk openly and honestly with her, she flipped out on me. These days, we rarely even speak to each other, let alone have sex with each other.

I do consider myself lucky to have met someone who's in the same boat as I am. She let me know in no uncertain terms that she was interested, and I was too. But before we got involved, I told her that I am married, and more importantly, "some people are not monogamous, and I'm one of them." I'm polyamorous, and about seven years ago I was finally able to come to terms with it. She seemed shocked at first, but chose to see how it went anyway.

I wasn't sure about her at first, but we've been seeing each other almost three years now, and one thing I like about her is how adventurous she is, as well as her willingness to try things. She asked me what my fantasies were, and I told her one of them was having a threesome with two women. She always considered herself straight, but it ended up happening with her and another female friend (I posted about it in the "Sluttiest Moments" thread), and she loved it. We did it again just a couple weeks ago with this hot 24-year-old (we're both in our early 40s.) She also found out she loves anal sex, which is a plus for me. She chose to try these things because I told her I liked it, but I would never force her to do anything she doesn't want to. And the fact that she enjoys them is all the more exciting. I can be open and honest with her about my fantasies, although I was afraid at first to tell her my fantasy of being taken with a strap-on. We still haven't done this one, but she's willing to try it. We just have to get to a toy shop...

What really keeps us going is the openness and honesty. It's not always easy for her having to deal with the way I am, and sometimes she worries about me losing interest in her. I always do my best to reassure her. And probably the most important thing at all is that we're best friends. And I always say "friends before anything else."