Why The Holocaust Must Be Questioned

[Lovelynice]

I bet Lovelynice thinks the Nanking massacre is all smoke and mirrors as well.

You lost the bet.

Yet, according to a Chinese historian (not a Japanese historian), the Nanking Massacre was exaggerated by a factor of ten by the Communist Party as part of a deliberate propaganda campaign. With the wonderful free democracy that China is famous for, said historian's published books were all burned and he was arrested. A similar situation also occurs in those other wonderful democracies where the guarantee of free speech allows anyone who questions the Holocaust to be arrested and jailed (Germany for example), or deported (USA and Canada for example as done so).

With all those people being tortured in Abu Ghraib and Guatanamo, I'm sure you feel a few people being arrested for questioning the officiallly-sanctioned version of history doesn't really matter.

What does it matter if the USA is repeatedly in breach of the Geneva Convention and International Law? Firebombing cities and slaughtering millions by burning them alive in Germany and Japan, and being the only nation in the world to use nuclear weapons against cities full of civilians in open breach of the Geneva Convention. You can just happily swallow the lies and excuses and say "Oh but they were worse than us!". It must give you such a nice warm fuzzy feeling to believe the bullshit and be a complete dope.

"But Japan and Germany were the aggressor nations!" you'll cry, with no idea of the history or context of the situation. I suppose you are completely ignorant that the USA imposed a blockade on not only OIL, but ALL trade to/from Japan. Such a thing is considered an act of war these days. The Japanese government of the time realised that if they didn't go to war, over 20 million people would starve to death.

Oh but those nasty Japanese did their 'surprise attack' on Pearl Harbour. What a surprise it must've been, as the Japanese Imperial Navy was monitored by the USA for TEN WHOLE DAYS as they crossed the Pacific. It was just as planned for too, if you bother to read the MacCollum Memo where the plan to stir Japan to going to war was clearly laid out.

Poor little Poland. Such a nice place, ever since they were under the Rule of the Generals. No discrimination at all; just good old fashioned ETHNIC CLEANSING and deliberate provocations as they prepared to go to war with Germany anyway (they had everything ready to go, but the Germans moved first). Wonderful little Poland was so good at making friends and being nice to everyone, that even the RUSSIANS declared war on them (on the German side).

Soviet Russia was such a goody-goody place, they only slaughtered between 20-80 MILLION Christians. Funny how all the so-called 'Nazi' mass graves and 'death camps' were on the Communist side of the border. They couldn't possibly have been actually filled with dead Christians could they? I mean, those Russian Jewish Bolsheviks only killed 20-80 million people - they're nice guys aren't they? I mean, you ALWAYS believe what the Soviet Russian government said about everything right? They couldn't possibly have forged documents and LIED could they?

 

[Drinking Cap]

What does it matter if the USA is repeatedly in breach of the Geneva Convention and International Law? Firebombing cities and slaughtering millions by burning them alive in Germany and Japan, and being the only nation in the world to use nuclear weapons against cities full of civilians in open breach of the Geneva Convention.

Which Geneva Convention do you think the US violated by dropping the A-bomb?

 

[Drinking Cap]

Also, no comment about the glorious Japanese victory at Midway Island?

 

[KRCummings]

You lost the bet.

DUCK!!!!

 

[KRCummings]

Also, no comment about the glorious Japanese victory at Midway Island?

It was Godzillas fault.

 

[Drinking Cap]

Also, no comment about the glorious Japanese victory at Midway Island?

Just, I mean, the US sunk 4 carriers and killed 3000 japanese while the Japanese sunk 1 carrier and killed 300 Americans. Are those numbers inflated? Or are Japanese math books as distorted as their history books?

 

[Drinking Cap]

It was Godzillas fault.

No, you see KR, Godzilla was created by the atomic bomb, which was dropped after Midway. Saying Godzilla was the reason the Japanese lost Midway is as incorrect as saying the US openly breached the 4th Geneva convention 4 years before it occurred.

 

[KRCummings]

No, you see KR, Godzilla was created by the atomic bomb, which was dropped after Midway. Saying Godzilla was the reason the Japanese lost Midway is as incorrect as saying the US openly breached the 4th Geneva convention 4 years before it occurred.

My bad.

 

[unculbact]

Ah, but we can actually SEE the sky.

We can't however, SEE original wartime German documents that support the claims of the Holocaust. We can see copies and transcipts, nothing more.

Looks like we can't even see the copies and transcripts.

I'll be darned, Lovelynice was right, there are hidden archives.
-----------------------------------
Feb. 19, 2006

Order To Open Holocaust Archive Fought

The collection is heavy on personal detail, making it a delicate issue

By ROGER COHEN
New York Times

Tempers are flaring over a U.S. demand to open to scholars and researchers a huge repository of information about the Holocaust contained in the files of the International Tracing Service at Bad Arolsen, Germany.

Based in part on documents gathered by Allied forces as they liberated Nazi concentration camps, the stock of files stretches for about 15.5 miles, and holds information on 17.5 million people, one of the largest closed archives anywhere.

The collection is unique in its intimate personal detailing of a catastrophe, which is what makes the question of open access so delicate. The papers may reveal who was treated for lice at which camp, what ghoulish medical experiment was conducted on which prisoner and why, who was accused by the Nazis of murder or incest or pedophilia, which Jews collaborated and how they were induced to do so.

Running into objections

Since the end of the war, the Tracing Service, operating as an arm of the International Committee of the Red Cross, has used the files to help people trace the fates of relatives who disappeared into the murderous vortex of Nazi terror. Now, more than 60 years after the end of the war, the United States says that task is largely done and it is time to open up the archive, copy it so that it can also be stored in other countries and make it available to historians.

"The U.S. government favors opening up all records on the Holocaust," said Edward O'Donnell, the special envoy for Holocaust issues at the State Department. "Our objective is to open the archive, and we will continue to push."

But that push has met a wall of legal and procedural objections — from Charles Biedermann, the Red Cross official who has been director of the Tracing Service for two decades, and from the German and Italian governments. The atmosphere within the 11-nation international commission that oversees the operation has become poisonous.

'A form of Holocaust denial'

At meetings to discuss the opening of the archive, German officials have asked whether it is really in anyone's interest to have accusations about particular Jews being murderers or homosexuals made public. Because German privacy laws are much stricter than those in the United States, German authorities are concerned that an opening could lead to lawsuits charging that personal information was handed out illegally.

Wide access to the papers could also provoke new claims for compensation.

"This is a scandal and a big scar on the image of Germany," said Sara Bloomfield, the director of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, which is eager to secure copies of the files.

Paul Shapiro, the director of advanced Holocaust studies at the museum, accused Germany of "abusing efforts to achieve consensus" and "exerting a stranglehold on the process." He added, "Hiding this record is a form of Holocaust denial."

Such strong words are at odds with the generally positive tenor of German-American relations on Holocaust matters, even through negotiations as elaborate as those that led to Germany's agreement in 2000 to compensate former slave laborers of the Nazis.

Germany is outraged at the suggestion that it may be dragging its feet. "I object to the assertion that we have something to hide or are not forthcoming," said Wolfgang Ischinger, the German ambassador to the United States. "That insinuation is false."

Cohen is assuming the archives will contain nothing but confirmation of atrocities. But it will contain other information, undoubtedly some of it pretty embarrassing, like somebody who was very much alive in a DP camp in 1946, when they were supposed to be dead in Stutthoff, and the like.

 

[Lovelynice]

This message is hidden because KRCummings is on your ignore list.

This message is hidden because Drinking Cap is on your ignore list.


I put you both on ignore until you start to bring up something OTHER than insults.

You've been wasting your typing on crap and nonsense for the past several posts. Did you enjoy your little wanking off to each other?

 

[Lovelynice]

Looks like we can't even see the copies and transcripts.

I'll be darned, Lovelynice was right, there are hidden archives.
-----------------------------------
Feb. 19, 2006

Order To Open Holocaust Archive Fought

The collection is heavy on personal detail, making it a delicate issue

By ROGER COHEN
New York Times

Tempers are flaring over a U.S. demand to open to scholars and researchers a huge repository of information about the Holocaust contained in the files of the International Tracing Service at Bad Arolsen, Germany.

Based in part on documents gathered by Allied forces as they liberated Nazi concentration camps, the stock of files stretches for about 15.5 miles, and holds information on 17.5 million people, one of the largest closed archives anywhere.

The collection is unique in its intimate personal detailing of a catastrophe, which is what makes the question of open access so delicate. The papers may reveal who was treated for lice at which camp, what ghoulish medical experiment was conducted on which prisoner and why, who was accused by the Nazis of murder or incest or pedophilia, which Jews collaborated and how they were induced to do so.

Running into objections

Since the end of the war, the Tracing Service, operating as an arm of the International Committee of the Red Cross, has used the files to help people trace the fates of relatives who disappeared into the murderous vortex of Nazi terror. Now, more than 60 years after the end of the war, the United States says that task is largely done and it is time to open up the archive, copy it so that it can also be stored in other countries and make it available to historians.

"The U.S. government favors opening up all records on the Holocaust," said Edward O'Donnell, the special envoy for Holocaust issues at the State Department. "Our objective is to open the archive, and we will continue to push."

But that push has met a wall of legal and procedural objections — from Charles Biedermann, the Red Cross official who has been director of the Tracing Service for two decades, and from the German and Italian governments. The atmosphere within the 11-nation international commission that oversees the operation has become poisonous.

'A form of Holocaust denial'

At meetings to discuss the opening of the archive, German officials have asked whether it is really in anyone's interest to have accusations about particular Jews being murderers or homosexuals made public. Because German privacy laws are much stricter than those in the United States, German authorities are concerned that an opening could lead to lawsuits charging that personal information was handed out illegally.

Wide access to the papers could also provoke new claims for compensation.

"This is a scandal and a big scar on the image of Germany," said Sara Bloomfield, the director of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, which is eager to secure copies of the files.

Paul Shapiro, the director of advanced Holocaust studies at the museum, accused Germany of "abusing efforts to achieve consensus" and "exerting a stranglehold on the process." He added, "Hiding this record is a form of Holocaust denial."

Such strong words are at odds with the generally positive tenor of German-American relations on Holocaust matters, even through negotiations as elaborate as those that led to Germany's agreement in 2000 to compensate former slave laborers of the Nazis.

Germany is outraged at the suggestion that it may be dragging its feet. "I object to the assertion that we have something to hide or are not forthcoming," said Wolfgang Ischinger, the German ambassador to the United States. "That insinuation is false."

Have you seen the scan of the deathtoll figures from the 1979 Arolsen Red Cross report?

 

[unculbact]

Have you seen the scan of the deathtoll figures from the 1979 Arolsen Red Cross report?

No, but I think I've seen quotes from it. The Arolsen archive actually released something?

 

[Shamanskiss]

Which side had the bigger navy, silly billy? The British.

Who pretty much controlled the English Channel? The British.

How easy was the Dunkirk landing? Damn dangerous and tough, and that was with the British having the advantage of a larger navy and more ships to transport troops.

Get the picture yet?

You really are an idiot.

As Don K. Dyck points out...



Even Hitler was smarter than our "Shamanskiss" .

The Channel was controlled by the ones that planned things better overall..
silly.
Do you realise you are blaming Hitler's failure, his abject bloody cock up as a strategist, on the fact the British did a better job of it.
Again, you argue my corner for me.

You ask 'How easy was the Dunkirk landing'
well
IT WASN'T A FUCKING LANDING. Dipstick.

IT WAS A FUCKING TAKE-OFF, AN EXTRACTION.

It was also an off the cuff, unplanned operation, that relied as much on British civilians operating boats, as it did on naval military personel.
Sweet Jesus, look it the fuck up.

Dunkirk showed that Hitler was more interested in eastward expansion into the fertile agricultural black soil regions of USSR rather than undertaking a historically difficult cross Channel 'invasion'..

Dunkirk showed that Hitler suffered from fucked up overall strategy, and very bad planning. It showed he launched a war before he was ready to actually fulfill its demands.
Dunkirk also showed that Hitler based his 'world-view' of Britain and its people on the information he got from people like a ball-less royal reject, his ambitious wife, and some upper class, inbred, extreme right wing, anti-semitic, pro-nazi ass-kissers , like the Mitfords and their groupies.

Hitler , based on intelligence obtained from a bunch of know-nothing retards, (not normally the best source) believed that Britain , and America , would throw in with him and happily kiss and make up, then go hammer the shit out of Russia.

Well, well...he got that bugger wrong as well. Hey, why take any notice of hundreds of years of history, when a traitor, his tart, and few 'sloaney' slappers are telling him.
" oh yes shicky baby, the British wont mind that you are killing all these soldiers of theirs, signing alliances with those dear little japanese chappies to carve up the empire, and they wont be bothered that you are apparently planning to stab russia in the back despite the fact you signed a non-aggression pact with that Stalin chappie. Oh good gracious no, they'll just trust you implicitly, and join in with your little third reich barbeque thingymajig."

Can you clarify just how big a fucking idiot you claim Hitler was......

The above doesn't work for him, so he reverts to plan B.
Always good to have a plan B.
Oh...unless your name is hitler and it's your plan, that you dreamt up.
Then , it is a fucking Catastrophic idea.

What he does is invade Russia......
In June...
When any village idiot should know, it is not possible to defeat Russia, to fight across it in July August and September, 'cos by October, we know,
from experience of History,(unless you are called Hitler that is), that by then, vast tracts of Russia are getting very fucking cold as this slight inconvenience called the Russian Winter is kicking in.

Now, there was a guy called Napoleon who could have given Hitler a few pointers here. Twat should have looked him up. I think he wrote a best seller called '1001 things not to do when you invade Russia.' (sub-titled 'Oh No, just dropped an immense military bollock, at least this will stop anyone making this same mistake in the future')
Like, DO NOT set off too late in the year,
like, DO NOT underestimate the Russian bloody mindedness..
like , DO NOT leave all your warm clothes and good winter shit at home.
like, DO NOT overlook the fact the Russians know that Winter is coming , and that a scaled retreat accompanied by a scorched earth strategy will piss quite a few peasants off,and cause a lot of hardship, but hey, overall it is going to eventually fuck the invader so they cannot sit.

Yet again old Adolf overlooks all this.
Some fucking military genius.

This is the best laugh anyone could have on these boards.
It is fucking priceless.

 

[Shamanskiss]

It's what ????

Uhmmm . . . er, that's just NOT the case Krastner . . .

I know but it's hard to resist the urge to twist shemankiss's ass. .

You don't know how.

The above comment signifies what are normally termed delusions of adequacy.

You challenge me in direct correlation to the extent HItler won WW2.

 

[Shamanskiss]

Belive it or not......

Ah, but we can actually SEE the sky.

We can't however, SEE original wartime German documents that support the claims of the Holocaust. .

Try this for a radical thought. Sit down though I wouldn't want that dizzy feeling to get you hurt.

When a Leader is staring defeat in the face, and can see it coming from a mile off, as well as loads of folks down the food-chain that have been doing nasty nasty things.

They do not normally gather up all the incriminating documents , bind them in best Moroccan, make loads of copies, then put them in a safe place so the allies will find them...

Usually, they get as much incriminating stuff as they can, and destroy the fuck out of it.

If we had found a convenient,complete, virginal, pristine, record of Hitlers walk down anti-semite street...
then
I might have been a little suspicious.

 

[Shamanskiss]

This is a gem

[By the way if I remember ..at Dunkirk, the Germans actually allowed the British to leave. There were news reels all the time then.


.

Hell...nearly missed this....
WHAT ?????

Just what the fuck are you on...lower the dosage....
Let them leave....?

Buggery...you think Hitler was Dumber than I do......

what a whiner..
and no I didn't mispell wiener.

 

[Shamanskiss]

have you considered

Who had the bigger navy and most ships? Who pretty much controlled the English Channel? You should be able to work these things out for yourself and why your comment comes across as so idiotic.

Hitler could have worked that out as well....

Didn't seem to factor it in did he.

You really do see Adolf as a surviving brain donor don't you.

 

[Shamanskiss]

oh dear... not again...

But you can't prove the Holocaust, and that is the point of this thread.

(Also, if the Japanese were so dumb then why is it that it took until 1943 before the US Navy had even a single victory against the Japanese Imperial Navy? In every previous battle, the US Navy lost. In fact, one of the biggest naval losses that the US Navy had ever suffered was against the Japanese.)

Battle of Coral Sea 7-8 May 1942..

some will no doubt argue Japan won it in terms of tonnage/type of ships lost.

however.the battle was a strategic victory for the Americans. The Coral Sea meant the end of Japanese expansion southward. They would never again threaten Australia and New Zealand.
The significance of the Battle of the Coral Sea was that the Americans had screwed the occupation of Port Moresby and the knockout of Australian air power. These were necessary before carrier strikes by the Japanese could be made against Australia. In a few weeks the Americans would land on Guadalcanal, and the Japanese would eventually be driven out of the Solomon Islands after months of attrition warfare. There would be no more expansion, bases, or victories for Japan.

and just a hint....but look up
The Battle of Midway June 4-7, 1942

 

[krastner]

Hey lovely, also to unculback and woody and every other poster that has contributed positively to this thread. It finally looks like ole Shamancuss ahs gone off the deep end. I can just see him slashing away at his keybord, frothing at the mouth. I think it was woody and some others that proved him to be a liar when he started to use the worn out tactic of the zionist liars, of trying to use "original" sympathy garnering argument about some relative or other who ..bla...bla...bla...

Well what you see here is why people need sleep. I think our resident zionist madman has finally snapped or gotten ahold of some bad meth..

Oh by the way it wasn't that the Japaneese were so smart. They are that naturally ( you might add Devious), but the real kicker was our government under the legendary Franklin D. that caused Pearl Harbor. The old bastard just wanted to start the war, In the pacific and alos with Germany. Who knows ...perhaps he had dreams of grandeure and wanted to be a wartime leader ( Churchill too) while he puffed away at his cigarette.

But you are right.. The Japaneese were not dumb.. .Aso.. the japaneese are always saying that...I think they are saying "asshole" to us.

 

[Shamanskiss]

Odd that, considering the name is right up by my AV...scroll up and it's there..

That wasn't a put down. I wasn't on the thread page as I wrte. I actually couldn't remember the end bit of your tag.

While it's not my field of expertise, weren't all German divisions seriously understrength by 1943? I know that early that year, the German General Staff did an organizational shake-up, and reduced the size of the standard German infantry division from 9 battalions to six, which would give it a ration strength of 9,000 men at full TOE, which it seems they rarely did

You DO know what TOE means, right?

AND, many divisions were divisions in name only, like the Flak Divisions. The Coastal divisions, if I'm reading this correctly, generally had a strength of only 2,000 men, sometimes as much as half of them made up of Russian volunteers...

1st point...Divisional short-falls weren't just a problem for the Germans. Most sources of stats for manpower strengths support the actual numerical superiority of German forces. Added to that their equipment and logistics were generally superb.

h'mmmm, TOE..?
Hammer toe,
claw toe ?
camel toe ?
tic tac toe ?

or do you mean
TO&E
Table of Organization and Equipment......nahhh, couldn't mean that.
No way is he trying to make me show I don't know about how 'TO&E'
details the authorized levels of personnel and major equipment in formations and their subunits (nominal or "paper" strengths) and defines the order of battle.
He wouldn't do that....

My ROTC training was brief, but I know that simply counting divisions is misleading, so much so that Stalin kept "divisions" that had been reduced in strength to only 200 men on the Soviet Order of Battle, just as a bluff to confuse intelligence estimates. Hitler did the same thing....

this may seem odd to you, but not all figures are based on what the power at the time puts out. Just prior to D-Day, we had whole damn fleets, numerous airbases, mustering camps and troop depots all over the UK.. Christ , you could barely sea the ground in Norfolk from the air due to fake planes, and huts, and stuff.
Everybody glamm'd up their 'strengths.
And yes...some Divisions were a lot smaller than others. But so were many of ours. We had small divisions with well defined roles as well.
Odd thing is, sometimes stuff like this does get taken into account , .....

You never served as an officer, did you? An officer would know that. (ooops did I paraphrase you there )

By the way, I checked, that British "Legion", made up of British POW's who volunteered for the German Army, was never stronger than 29 men.

And you're also not counting units that were neither American nor Commonwealth, like the Brazilian divisions.

a...Did you spot the inverted commas. I know the British component was small, that's why I avoided inferring they constituted a Division in any way.

I used them as a sort of pun..A demonstration of how many traitors Hitler managed to attract to his banner. By the way, The BritischesFreiKorps included 10 members from commonwealth countries..So all those Hitler ideas weren't selling too well , anywhere,even at the height of their popularity were they.

b...I think you made a typo on Brazillian DIVISIONS, (eg plural.) The Brazillian Expeditionary force constituted one division didn't, and one squadron of fighters.
The 1st Brazilian...

They were however attached to an American Army group and represented as part of that strength.

Elements of Commonwealth troops were incorporated in the figures, where they were operational in the European theatre, and were included as a whole figure. However, those elements occupied with the war in the far east, I did not include them, as they weren't in bloody Europe.

However, I did miss some troops out. I didn't highlight the fact the Vichy French not only supplied some troops to the German forces, I also didn't bang on about how the self adminstration of Vichy meant a huge tract of occupied territory could be administered by a greatly reduced occupational force, thereby freeing up combat units for redeployment in strategic areas.
Thus, the numerical superiority of the Germans/axis is increased.
Thanks...

 

[Shamanskiss]

hey krastner

Hey lovely, also to unculback and woody and every other poster that has contributed positively to this thread. It finally looks like ole Shamancuss ahs gone off the deep end. I can just see him slashing away at his keybord, frothing at the mouth. I think it was woody and some others that proved him to be a liar when he started to use the worn out tactic of the zionist liars, of trying to use "original" sympathy garnering argument about some relative or other who ..bla...bla...bla...

Well what you see here is why people need sleep. I think our resident zionist madman has finally snapped or gotten ahold of some bad meth..

Oh by the way it wasn't that the Japaneese were so smart. They are that naturally ( you might add Devious), but the real kicker was our government under the legendary Franklin D. that caused Pearl Harbor. The old bastard just wanted to start the war, In the pacific and alos with Germany. Who knows ...perhaps he had dreams of grandeure and wanted to be a wartime leader ( Churchill too) while he puffed away at his cigarette.

But you are right.. The Japaneese were not dumb.. .Aso.. the japaneese are always saying that...I think they are saying "asshole" to us.

the only thing you have proved to anyone is that your sense of humour is about equal to a brick.

As yet , outside your own head, we are waiting for you to prove you are sentient.

Your guys lost, fucked up, big time. All you're doing is grovelling around like some homesick maggot making pathetic excuses for it.
Hell you can't even handle anyone opposing your views.

The allies, and in a big big way the Germans, proved the whole Aryan supremacy thing was a myth they were wacking off to.

 

[krastner]

the only thing you have proved to anyone is that your sense of humour is about equal to a brick.

As yet , outside your own head, we are waiting for you to prove you are sentient.

Your guys lost, fucked up, big time. All you're doing is grovelling around like some homesick maggot making pathetic excuses for it.
Hell you can't even handle anyone opposing your views.

The allies, and in a big big way the Germans, proved the whole Aryan supremacy thing was a myth they were wacking off to.

Whateveeeer....But just for the sake of argument who are the "you guys lost...that you refer to? Are you so addled in your brain (or what's left of it) that you actually invision me., Woody and lovely and Unculback as former german soldiers. I can't speak for the others but as for me...I am one who questions the jewish version of the holocaust and see the zionist Jew as a threat to world peace.

I think that you act exactly as a zionist Jew acts. He tries to sow discord and intefere with any discussion till the participants are so muddled that they forget what they were discussing in the first place. I am far from muddled. I HAVE tied to dispell the notion that you and a lot of your ilk have , about the german soldier, but that does not make me a sympathizer for the WW2 actoins of the German government.

Waiting for a sensible reply from you...

 

[unculbact]

Hey lovely, also to unculback and woody and every other poster that has contributed positively to this thread. It finally looks like ole Shamancuss ahs gone off the deep end. I can just see him slashing away at his keybord, frothing at the mouth. I think it was woody and some others that proved him to be a liar when he started to use the worn out tactic of the zionist liars, of trying to use "original" sympathy garnering argument about some relative or other who ..bla...bla...bla...

Er, um, yeah, while it's flattering to be included in a post and all, please be advised that I'm not a member of your team, or anybody elses "team".

The only posts I'm responsible for are my own.

Yeah, Shaman froths, and has made some howlingly bad history mistakes like the "commandos at Belsen" thing or "Waffen SS guarding the place", but then again, so have you, Woody and our Lovelynice, who is indeed lovely and nice, but definitely needs a remedial course on the Pacific War, as do you.

I would not accuse Shaman of lying in any of his posts. Ignorance yes, lying no. With the stuff about British commandos showing off the "tattoos" that they got in concentration camps, he was not lying. He was simply faithfully relating what he had been told, and while, being from a military family, I'd expect him to realize that war stories get embellished, with this he really had no reason to doubt the veracity of what he was told, at least then.

Hopefully, if he ever runs into these guys again, he'll now know to ask some questions, like: Where were you tattooed? By what procedure, and who did the tattooing? (This is actually of monumental importance). What does the tattoo mean? (which means finding out what the tattoo's ARE - a series of numbers, or a series of letters and numbers? How many numbers?) and finally, why tattoo British prisoners, to what purpose? How do you know what the purpose was, who told you? And why didn't the Red Cross complain when they inspected your camp? (It's a Geneva Convention violation, and the Red Cross inspected concentration camps as well as POW camps).

For, after all, while it's unlikely, stranger things have happened, and it might yet turn out that Shaman, or to be more correct, his friends, have a unique addition to an unknown detail of history. I can't find any verification, online or at the library that British commandos were tattooed, but if it's really obscure, something might come up yet.

If it does, and since my source of information is the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum and the Auschwitz State Museum, it would mean that these two institutions are WRONG, they're publishing false, or at least incomplete and misleading information, not the first such instance with either organization.

In which case, not only can Shaman write them an angry letter, but you've got yet more proof that, indeed, the Holocaust should be questioned.

And that last post he made to my pointed questions about the real correlation of forces was actually pretty literate. Still not to the point - the correlation of forces in terms of raw numbers of men available on the different fronts is still not analyzed, for instance, Montgomery had a two to one manpower advantage at Third Alamain, and if you subtract the Italians and count only the German forces he was facing, it's even bigger. But still a pretty literate post. And it was never defined by either side what was meant by "outnumbered" - total population available for war-effort? Front-line infantry strength? Assets such as air, artillery or armor? The parameters of an argument need definition.

Shaman's been ignorant, but I'm not going to say he lied about anything. You and Woody and Lovely have been ignorant too, at times massively so. Part of it is the thread getting off-topic with World War II history, and both sides just shooting their mouths off without first checking facts, but part of it is a good-old pissing contest with ego's involved.

And I'm not going to get involved in that. I'm not here to score points, achieve one-upsmanship, gain moral superiority, or otherwise stroke my ego about anything to anybody. The HolocaustTM is a complicated field of study, with contradictory information and a titanic pile of bullshit on both the believer and revisionist side to wade through.

As St. Augustine points out, pissing contests lead to people not listening to each other, which is pointless, for as he says: "Otherwise, they would equally love another true opinion, as I love what they say when they say true, not because it is theirs, but because it is true; and on that very ground not theirs because it is true".

What St. Augustine is saying is that truth is not a possession. Truth is everybody's property and to nobody's credit, and it's ridiculous to get all puffed up about it. It's not a part of anybody's nature, it has it's own existence, and if you're in possession of a material fact that the other person doesn't have, that doesn't make you a penny richer than the other person. Which also means if somebody is ignorant about something, that doesn't mean for one minute that anybody else is smarter than them, or dumber, or anything. They just don't know.

So, if you or anybody else from either side wants to gloat, fine, have fun, but leave me out of it. I have a play to write on the HolocaustTM, and any new info, published falsehood or verifiable fact, is most welcome.

And stay tuned to this channel for an on-topic post. Using my legal skills, I've been analyzing that story about British POW's at Auschwitz/Monowitz, and have noted some very interesting contradictions in it Polishing it up now, will have it later tonight.

 

[Don K Dyck]

Uhmmm . . . er, that's just NOT the case Krastner . . .

By the way if I remember ..at Dunkirk, the Germans actually allowed the British to leave. There were news reels all the time then.

Oh I am sure that the d day invasion took place..There were a lot of news reels about it then.. That's really a stupid ploy..if you are a zionist Jew it shows that you are running with your tail between your legs...yelp...yelp...yelp...

The holacaust did happen and any one who tries to deny is just a plain dumb ass

Thanks krastner, this is generally agreed

. . . and only three (3) (number??) rolls of film taken during the D-Day landing survived the processing stage to give us the pictures that have become icons of the biggest cross Channel invasion since 1066.

 

[Shamanskiss]

You just get better

Whateveeeer....But just for the sake of argument who are the "you guys lost...that you refer to? Are you so addled in your brain (or what's left of it) that you actually invision me., Woody and lovely and Unculback as former german soldiers. I can't speak for the others but as for me...I am one who questions the jewish version of the holocaust and see the zionist Jew as a threat to world peace.

I think that you act exactly as a zionist Jew acts. He tries to sow discord and intefere with any discussion till the participants are so muddled that they forget what they were discussing in the first place. I am far from muddled. I HAVE tied to dispell the notion that you and a lot of your ilk have , about the german soldier, but that does not make me a sympathizer for the WW2 actoins of the German government.

Waiting for a sensible reply from you...

read the original post,
it says YOUR not YOU guys...

Christ, you just keep doing my work for me.

try asking a sensible question.
How can you, if 'Sensible' walked up to you you would think it was a zionist jew because it was such a total bloody stranger.

and its envision.
I don't have any notion on the German Soldier that needs dispelling. I have praised them where it was merited, Rommel is one of my personal top ten.
Seemed a fine man. A dedicated patriot who had fuck all to do with that
death camp shit.
Krastner you are fixated, that is why you read a version of posts no-one else sees.