Why The Holocaust Must Be Questioned

[krastner]

The Holocaust-denier David Irving describes a 1944 Himmler speech (Skeptic magazine, Vol. 2, No. 4, p. 50):
"If people ask me," said Himmler, "why did you have to kill the children too, then I can only say I am not such a coward that I leave for my children something I can do myself." ... I agree (Irving replied), Himmler said that. He actually said "We're wiping out the Jews. We're murdering them. We're killing them." ... He is talking about solving the Jewish problem, about having to kill off women and children too.

and

Media Monitors Broadcast Transcript
Ron Casey Interviews David Irving
July 1995
:
Casey:
What is your estimate of the number of Jews who died at the hands of Hitler's regime in the war years? What number - and I don't like using this word - what number would you concede were killed in concentration camps?

Irving:
I think, like any scientist, I'd have to give you a range of figures and I'd have to say a minimum of one million, which is a monstrous crime, and a maximum of about four million, depending on what you mean by killed. If putting people into a concentration camps where they die of barbarity and typhus and epidemics is killing then I would say the four million figure because, undoubtedly, huge numbers did die in the camps in the conditions that were very evident at the end of the war.
----------------------------------

So, it seems Irving thinks the holocaust must have left mass graves somewhere, even if his numbers have any low-end accuracy.

After all, you guys told me he was an authority.

Himmler was a Nazi asshole you know asshole don't you? you're one.

 

[Shamanskiss]

Himmler was a Nazi ?

Himmler was a Nazi asshole you know asshole don't you? you're one.

fucking hell...
you sure ?

Is it me...?
But, weren't those Nazi assholes sort of running the show,
wasn't HItler a Nazi asshole, and Goebbels, Goerring, Borman, Hess,
and wasn't Himmler kind of 'part of the management structure', and in a position to know about policy, and projects, and mass murder and genocide and stuff ?

Krastner, you really have to start reading your posts before you make them.
I think we had a rough idea about Himmler's 'pedigree'.

You have lost the plot...You were so keen to call me names you actually spoke against yourself and your own arguments there.

Beyond Priceless... the guy's working hard at the new fuckwit world record.
And I for one think he has the makings of a record breaker.
Go Krastner....

 

[Shamanskiss]

Hey Krastner...

Do you know what 'channelling' is ???
just curious...

and I don't mean all that spiritualist and alien stuff...
mind you, in your case ??

 

[krastner]

fucking hell...


You have lost the plot...You were so keen to call me names you actually spoke against yourself and your own arguments there.

Beyond Priceless... the guy's working hard at the new fuckwit world record.
And I for one think he has the makings of a record breaker.
Go Krastner....

No I haven't lost a thing. You keepp trying to detract from the original thread.

The NAZIS were a bunch of assholes. The German soldiers were not NAZIS. You may be A Zionist Jew but you are an asshole just like all the NAZIS were. The Zio..ok forget the zionist part I was mearly trying to be nice. THE JEWS lied about the holocaust. There was not six million Jews that were murdered by the NAZIS. The murdered some but the Allied forces killed more German and Europens civilians that the Nazis killed Jews at Auschwitz.

I have never excused the NAZIS for anything. Saying that the JEWS are lying about the holocaust does not mean I forgive the NAZIS for what they did. Being against the JEWS for their lying about the holocause and their treatment of the Palestinians does not make me a NAZI no matter how hard you try and no matter how hard you try and detract you are a pitiful failure.

 

[Lovelynice]

Wouldn't it be better and more credible, if the guy wasn't from a group that has a vested interest in "proving" the Holocaust never happened?

Talk about the fox watching the henhouse.....

There's a $165,000 reward if you can find a mass grave near Treblinka.

Got your credit card handy? You can go there and prove them wrong.

As for the fox watching the hen house isn't that EXACTLY the situation of those who push the Holocaust who control the Auschwitz Museum and all those lobby groups that hassle everyone who questions even the most ludicrous and unbelievable facts?

Are you trying to pretend that all revision of history is wrong?

 

[Lovelynice]

So, it seems Irving thinks the holocaust must have left mass graves somewhere, even if his numbers have any low-end accuracy.

After all, you guys told me he was an authority.

Yeah, you'd think with all those people alleged to have been killed at Treblinka there would be at least ONE mass grave with thousands of bodies in it!

Damn, something's wrong with the evidence. It doesn't match up with your beliefs. Therefore the evidence must be wrong.

You sound like a Flat Earth nut.

 

[miles]

So krastner, what's this about you being in the field of psychology?

 

[krastner]

So krastner, what's this about you being in the field of psychology?

That's right asshole..so what the fuck is your problem? Hmmmmm

 

[miles]

That's right asshole..so what the fuck is your problem? Hmmmmm

That's Mr. Asshole, you ignorant, bigoted turd.

If you're a psychologist I'm a fucking F-16 pilot.

 

[KRCummings]

There's a $165,000 reward if you can find a mass grave near Treblinka.

Got your credit card handy? You can go there and prove them wrong.

As for the fox watching the hen house isn't that EXACTLY the situation of those who push the Holocaust who control the Auschwitz Museum and all those lobby groups that hassle everyone who questions even the most ludicrous and unbelievable facts?

Are you trying to pretend that all revision of history is wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Treblinkagrave.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Treblinka_1945.jpg

In 2001, a copy of a decerypted telegram sent by the deputy commander of the Operation Reinhart was discovered among recently declassified information in Britain. The Höfle Telegram listed 713,555 Jews killed in Treblinka through the end of December, 1942, though the camp continued operating through 1943. Recent estimates are that at least 800,000 to 900,000 people were killed at Treblinka.[1]

After the camp was dismantled, local farmers began to dig up the ground around Treblinka, looking for valuables and bits of bone and decaying tissue were strewn around the site, even in 1959, visitors to the site found that the soil was still filled with millions of tiny bone fragments. [2] Today, Treblinka has a small memorial.

 

[catfish]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Treblinkagrave.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Treblinka_1945.jpg

In 2001, a copy of a decerypted telegram sent by the deputy commander of the Operation Reinhart was discovered among recently declassified information in Britain. The Höfle Telegram listed 713,555 Jews killed in Treblinka through the end of December, 1942, though the camp continued operating through 1943. Recent estimates are that at least 800,000 to 900,000 people were killed at Treblinka.[1]

After the camp was dismantled, local farmers began to dig up the ground around Treblinka, looking for valuables and bits of bone and decaying tissue were strewn around the site, even in 1959, visitors to the site found that the soil was still filled with millions of tiny bone fragments. [2] Today, Treblinka has a small memorial.

KR, don't you know that that is what the one world zionist conspiracy wants you to think??????

 

[KRCummings]

KR, don't you know that that is what the one world zionist conspiracy wants you to think??????

I just want that reward money that dipshit was talking about.

 

[Lovelynice]

Good, then show me schematics or blueprints for one of those allegedly murderous 'Gas Vans', plus a good scientific explanation of how they work because every scientific study on diesel engines, and the mechanics that I've talked to about it say they're IMPOSSIBLE to make work. A few good detailed pictures would be handy too.

Then you can provide us with the autopsy report on cyanide-gassed victims from a mass grave.

Plus, you can give the exact location of those mass graves at Treblinka that can't be found even with ground penetrating radar (no sign of the ground being dug up sin millenia!).

On of that, we need the wartime original German documents that support the claims of the Holocaust (no copies or secondary transcripts please, as they're too unreliable and some exist in multiple forged versions).

Can you produce some of those ubersoldat "Rambos" who must've been the greatest warriors in human history as they managed to kill over 10,000 people each as they wandered the countryside in the middle of a war?

I've asked for these things on other sites, and so far NOBODY can produce any of this evidence.

I'm still waiting for BlueEyesInLevis to come up with this 'evidence' for the Holocaust. I guess he can't.

 

[Lovelynice]

Yep, it's an excavator alright. No dead bodies, no mass graves, and no evidence anywhere in the photo that it was anything more than an excavator being used on a construction site in Germany somewhere.

Yes, a big hole like those at any garbage dump. No dead bodies, and no evidence anywhere in the picture that it's a mass grave. That's building materials in the hole and rubbish. Can't even tell WHERE THIS IS from the photo. No uniforms visible.

Funny how perfectly normal things get deliberately mislabelled like this. I guess that site you got them from couldn't find any REAL evidence.

Is this the best that you and KR could come up with?

Come with something real next time.

 

[KRCummings]

Yep, it's an excavator alright. No dead bodies, no mass graves, and no evidence anywhere in the photo that it was anything more than an excavator being used on a construction site in Germany somewhere.

Yes, a big hole like those at any garbage dump. No dead bodies, and no evidence anywhere in the picture that it's a mass grave. That's building materials in the hole and rubbish. Can't even tell WHERE THIS IS from the photo. No uniforms visible.

Funny how perfectly normal things get deliberately mislabelled like this. I guess that site you got them from couldn't find any REAL evidence.

Guess you chose to ignore everything else because it proves how incredibly stupid and bigoted you are.
If ignorance is bliss then you must be the happiest sack of shit on the planet.

 

[krastner]

Guess you chose to ignore everything else because it proves how incredibly stupid and bigoted you are.
If ignorance is bliss then you must be the happiest sack of shit on the planet.

You know I don't think that calling something for what it really is can be ignoring something. I think it's simply it like you see it. And to think that this is the proof...give me a break.

 

[Lovelynice]

This message is hidden because KRCummings is on your ignore list.

Still around, I see.

 

[unculbact]

Wouldn't it be better and more credible, if the guy wasn't from a group that has a vested interest in "proving" the Holocaust never happened?

Talk about the fox watching the henhouse.....

So rerun the Ground Penetrating Radar test again, using neutral parties, which would be just about any modern oil company. In fact run it several times, through several parties, one data set never provides conclusive proof.

AND - supplement the GPR runs with Seismic Reflection Surveys.

2D and 3D Surveying
http://www.soes.soton.ac.uk/research/groups/3dchirp/3dchirp web pages/2D and 3D surveying.html

Seismic Reflection Surveys can use nothing more than a standard 12 gauge shotgun shell to vibrate the earth. With the proper computer software, you generate three-dimensional images of whatever is underground.

Using this technology, you can easily image dinosaur bones underneath the earth, as you saw Sam Neill doing in the first "Jurassic Park" movie.

It penetrates deep too, they've mapped a lake as big as Lake Ontario under four kilometers of ice in Antarctica using SRS. They mapped the big meteor crater under the ocean off the Yucatan Peninsula, the one that might have been caused by the event that killed the dinosaurs, using SRS. And that crater lies under mile of ocean, then under a mile of rock. SRS would work at Treblinka.

Both GPR and SRS are non-invasive, and disturb or damage nothing, so you don't have to listen to the usual crap about not disturbing graves, which can be ignored in a criminal investigation anyway.

Graf and Mattagno estimate that, if the extermination story is true, underground at Treblinka there is 11,100 tons of wood ash, and 1,950 tons of cremains, for a total of 13,050 metric tons of material that would occupy a volume of 36,500 cubic meters

TREBLINKA: EXTERMINATION CAMP OR TRANSIT CAMP?
http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/

Firepits, with wood ash in them have been discovered that date to Neanderthal times.

Cremains 3,000 years old have been found in the ancient postholes surrounding Stonehenge.

All of that material would still be there, and would show up well on a 3-D SRS image.

Unlike Sobibor, which is in a swamp, Treblinka is on land that is high and dry, and there is no underground water flow to dissolve the evidence. If combustion was incomplete, or, as some reports say, they didn't dig up all the bodies to burn them, you might just have your body to do an autopsy on. Autopsies have been successfully performed on mummies, including toxicology tests, and in the sandy soil of Treblinka, any unburned bodies will now be mummies.

Of course, toxicology tests would probably be of little use. Allegedly, the 750-850,000 victims of Treblinka were done in by diesel exhaust, which as has been linked before, isn't poisonous. As the British Industrial Medicine experiment in 1957 proved, under normal operating conditions, you can't kill a laboratory mouse with diesel exhaust.

And there were allegedly 11 mass grave pits at Treblinka, with a volume of 130,700 cubic meters. These will be of different density than the surrounding land, and will show up nicely on both GPR and SRS.

So there is a whole battery of tests, none that involve digging a single pit or drilling a single hole.

An SRS survey will even show where the camp buildings were. Air and ground surveys didn't find their locations, and no official map of the place was ever made. Nobody is certain where the gas chamber was supposed to be - in fact, nobody is sure just how big the camp was.

 

[krastner]

That's Mr. Asshole, you ignorant, bigoted turd.

If you're a psychologist I'm a fucking F-16 pilot.

Like I asked you before what has all of this got to do with the price of a greek gangbang.
My being or not being a psychologist hasn't a thing to do with the "holocaust"
I think I said that I have the hunting license. I would never practice and have to put up with people like you who really do have problems...Now do I charge you for that.?What the fuk not. Oh a turd is a dried up peice of shit. If anything I'm not dried up...

 

[Lovelynice]

You know I don't think that calling something for what it really is can be ignoring something. I think it's simply it like you see it. And to think that this is the proof...give me a break.

She's just pissed because I actually CHECKED the photos, where as she gullibly accepted whatever was on the lying labels without actually LOOKING.

 

[krastner]

She's just pissed because I actually CHECKED the photos, where as she gullibly accepted whatever was on the lying labels without actually LOOKING.

First of all lovely she is an IT. It is a ringer plain and simple. It's job is to caus discord and insult those that are trying to find the truth. WE are lucky to be in America. In Europe we would be in prison for what we say..Maybe they have us scoped out already..Oh shit does that mean I'll miss Oktober fest this year?

 

[Lovelynice]

So rerun the Ground Penetrating Radar test again, using neutral parties, which would be just about any modern oil company. In fact run it several times, through several parties, one data set never provides conclusive proof.

AND - supplement the GPR runs with Seismic Reflection Surveys.

2D and 3D Surveying
http://www.soes.soton.ac.uk/research/groups/3dchirp/3dchirp web pages/2D and 3D surveying.html

Seismic Reflection Surveys can use nothing more than a standard 12 gauge shotgun shell to vibrate the earth. With the proper computer software, you generate three-dimensional images of whatever is underground.

Using this technology, you can easily image dinosaur bones underneath the earth, as you saw Sam Neill doing in the first "Jurassic Park" movie.

It penetrates deep too, they've mapped a lake as big as Lake Ontario under four kilometers of ice in Antarctica using SRS. They mapped the big meteor crater under the ocean off the Yucatan Peninsula, the one that might have been caused by the event that killed the dinosaurs, using SRS. And that crater lies under mile of ocean, then under a mile of rock. SRS would work at Treblinka.

Both GPR and SRS are non-invasive, and disturb or damage nothing, so you don't have to listen to the usual crap about not disturbing graves, which can be ignored in a criminal investigation anyway.

Graf and Mattagno estimate that, if the extermination story is true, underground at Treblinka there is 11,100 tons of wood ash, and 1,950 tons of cremains, for a total of 13,050 metric tons of material that would occupy a volume of 36,500 cubic meters

TREBLINKA: EXTERMINATION CAMP OR TRANSIT CAMP?
http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/

Firepits, with wood ash in them have been discovered that date to Neanderthal times.

Cremains 3,000 years old have been found in the ancient postholes surrounding Stonehenge.

All of that material would still be there, and would show up well on a 3-D SRS image.

Unlike Sobibor, which is in a swamp, Treblinka is on land that is high and dry, and there is no underground water flow to dissolve the evidence. If combustion was incomplete, or, as some reports say, they didn't dig up all the bodies to burn them, you might just have your body to do an autopsy on. Autopsies have been successfully performed on mummies, including toxicology tests, and in the sandy soil of Treblinka, any unburned bodies will now be mummies.

Of course, toxicology tests would probably be of little use. Allegedly, the 750-850,000 victims of Treblinka were done in by diesel exhaust, which as has been linked before, isn't poisonous. As the British Industrial Medicine experiment in 1957 proved, under normal operating conditions, you can't kill a laboratory mouse with diesel exhaust.

And there were allegedly 11 mass grave pits at Treblinka, with a volume of 130,700 cubic meters. These will be of different density than the surrounding land, and will show up nicely on both GPR and SRS.

So there is a whole battery of tests, none that involve digging a single pit or drilling a single hole.

An SRS survey will even show where the camp buildings were. Air and ground surveys didn't find their locations, and no official map of the place was ever made. Nobody is certain where the gas chamber was supposed to be - in fact, nobody is sure just how big the camp was.

Don't forget catfish, there's still that $165,000 reward offered if you can find a mass grave at Treblinka with thousands of bodies in it! No one else has been able to, so the money's still waiting

You only have to find ONE MASS GRAVE with the THOUSANDS of dead bodies in it that have been claimed.. That's all, and the money's yours.

 

[unculbact]

Lovely is right, the first pic is just an excavator, the second pic just shows a hole in the ground.

Looking at the Wikipedia site, it says this pic was taken in March of 1943, late winter, the same winter as Stalingrad. So, why is there no snow on the ground?

The volume of earth behind the hole - admittedly, a lot of it is out of frame, but it seems to be just enough to fill the hole that's shown. If this was a mass grave, with body layers yards beneath those tarp and planks, that earth pile behind the hole would have to be a lot bigger.

And that Wikipedia article has a truly phony photograph on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Treblinka_1945.jpg

That photo is a fraud.

1. Supposedly, the Germans planted over the graves with pine saplings and legumes. This shows sand and scrub grass. This can't be at Treblinka.

2. Note the long bones, and the fully intact pelvis, even delicate, undamaged rib bones. These bones do not come from cremated bodies, either in an oven or an outdoor pyre. If they had been cremated, the bones would be at least partially disintegrated, and also singed.

I think I recognize this photo as the bones of Soviet soldiers killed in battle on a beach in Latvia in 1941. Their bones were discovered in 1944. I'll try to dig that one up, it was a still from a Soviet documentary, hosted by Burt Lancaster, called "The Unknown War".

Either way the picture I linked cannot be from Treblinka as claimed. Another misrepresentation.

 

[Lovelynice]

In Europe we would be in prison for what we say..

There are literally HUNDREDS of people imprisoned in Germany for stating that they do not believe in the Holocaust Myth. This includes many historians, teachers, and other academics.

Freedom of Speech isn't the only problem. Even producing scientific and verifiable evidence that reveals the lies of the Holocaust Propaganda can get people jailed in many European countries. In some countries courts have ruled that the facts are irrelevant, and that certain things must not be said whether they are true or false. In others, a defendant in court who even tries to explain or defend a forbidden view will be charged on the spot with a fresh offense. EVEN THE DEFENDANT'S LAWYER can be fined or go to jail just for trying to mount a defence.

 

[unculbact]

Lovely is right, the first pic is just an excavator, the second pic just shows a hole in the ground.

Looking at the Wikipedia site, it says this pic was taken in March of 1943, late winter, the same winter as Stalingrad. So, why is there no snow on the ground?

The volume of earth behind the hole - admittedly, a lot of it is out of frame, but it seems to be just enough to fill the hole that's shown. If this was a mass grave, with body layers yards beneath those tarp and planks, that earth pile behind the hole would have to be a lot bigger.

And that Wikipedia article has a truly phony photograph on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Treblinka_1945.jpg

That photo is a fraud.

1. Supposedly, the Germans planted over the graves with pine saplings and legumes. This shows sand and scrub grass. This can't be at Treblinka.

2. Note the long bones, and the fully intact pelvis, even delicate, undamaged rib bones. These bones do not come from cremated bodies, either in an oven or an outdoor pyre. If they had been cremated, the bones would be at least partially disintegrated, and also singed.

I think I recognize this photo as the bones of Soviet soldiers killed in battle on a beach in Latvia in 1941. Their bones were discovered in 1944. I'll try to dig that one up, it was a still from a Soviet documentary, hosted by Burt Lancaster, called "The Unknown War".

Either way the picture I linked cannot be from Treblinka as claimed. Another misrepresentation.

EDIT NOTE: The bones in the photo I linked, allegedly from Treblinka, are also bleached white, and show none of the dark staining from minerals or water-borne acids like tannic acid, or the sort of carbon staining that comes from decomposing flesh that you see on bones that have been exhumed from anywhere but the dryest of deserts, like Libya.

The only way that could happen is if these bones were in the open air, where insects could strip the bones of tissue, and sunlight could dry them out. These bones are not only NOT from Treblinka, they've never been underground.