Why The Holocaust Must Be Questioned

[Nathon_88]

You're an idiot,

Now show us the schematics for a working Diesel Gas Chamber, and the schematics for a working Diesel Gas "Murder" Van.

You won't be able to, because they don't work, and are complete BS just like many other lies of the "Holocaust"

Every page of this thread is filled with evidence blowing those lies away.

If you're still on the "Holocaust Happened" foolishness, then I pity your stupidity for accepting something without scrutiny.

Keep in mind who promotes the story most; Israeli zionists for the sake of the state of Israel, claiming to be victims while massacring Arabs and stealing their land. Those are the REAL antisemites, because Arabs are semites, and the Zionists want to kill them all and steal all their land. Look at the liars who push Israel's agenda, as they lied about deaths of all those civilians in Lebanon recently - and that's minor compared to what they have done to Palestinians for decades.

Look at the same liars who push the Holocaust the most, and you will find the same liars who pushed the lies about WMDs in Iraq, and the same liars who are now trying to make up excuses to attack Iran and Syria for the cause of a Greater Israel.

*chuckles* Let's take these one at a time, shall we?

The first point is simply a personal attack, and as I honestly don't give a crap what you think about me, I just enjoy the debate, I shall ignore it.

Second point. I'm not sure where in hell you heard "diesel gas chamber." The history I've been taught was that it was various chemical agents.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/dachau-gas-chambers/
http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/
Specifically -
http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/Plan01.jpg

Third point - as regards my stupidity, I really don't care what you think about me.

As to the rest. Okay, you're not American. I understand that. It makes you potentially more openminded about this. The whole Israel is bad thing? Well, honestly, as a PERSONAL opinion, I think that the nation was poorly placed, that the Balfour declaration was a mistake, and that any nation has little to no right to claim land that wasn't theirs to begin with.

HOWEVER.

This is human nature. Name a civilization. They have climbed over the bones, in some cases literally, of the previous occupants of the area.

Rebuttal?

*calmly gives the floor to my opponent.*

 

[SirGalahadthePure]

Tis sad that evil is denied by those that have never experienced it.

 

[Nathon_88]

Tis sad that evil is denied by those that have never experienced it.

*chuckles* There is an easier way to deal with them.

Post facts, and watch their faces go red.

*shrugs* Honestly, I don't care if they change their minds. I don't get to debate things nearly enough, I know they're not likely to change their opinion based on what I say, but if I don't defend it, who will?

 

[SirGalahadthePure]

They say that the Satans best accomplishment is making people believe he does not exist.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

I wondered why all of the WTC conspiracy threads died off all of the sudden after an onslaught of actual facts concerning the incident. All of Lovelynice's 'friends' left at once just as "she?" picked up a new conspiracy to blather on about.

The heat got to be too much for you and your 'friends' so you pick another idiotic conspiracy to flaunt using the same tactics. You do know the definition of insanity don't you?

 

[unculbact]

Most of that crazy stuff is no longer "official", but it was for decades promoted as "true". More recently the "human soap" stories have been dropped because modern DNA testing can easily prove it to be a LIE...

Heh. The propaganda machine got you again Lovely. Nobody ever found a bar of soap supposedly made from people, so there were no bars to test.

The Israeli newspaper Haaratz reported that in 1990 several bars of soap found buried in the Nahariya cemetery that were purported to be from World War II were sent to Tel Aviv University to be DNA tested, and were found not to be made from human remains. The same story has appeared on Nizkor and the Jewish Virtual Library.

The problem with that story is that you can't do a DNA test on a bar of soap. If you look at the soapmaking process - first the high temperature rendering that leeches out the fatty acids, the only part of the carcass that's used; followed by the boiling, then adding the various salts and esthers that generate a very energetic chemical reaction, you don't need a degree in chemistry to realize that no DNA would survive such a process.

About the only thing that would work with soap would be an Antigen Test. This is the same test the state meat inspector performs at your local grocery store. Using an antigen test, he can tell if the ground chuck really is beef, or bootleg kangaroo.

On soap, because of the destructive manufacturing process, an antigen test would not be able to tell if the soap was made from cow, human or pig.

An antigen test on soap WOULD be able to tell if the fatty acids had come from an animal, and not a jojoba plant, but they would never get the sort of immune reaction that would zero in on what sort of animal it came from.

That's what an antigen test does - looks for the antigens created by the immune response to a specific protein or lipids. The test is so simple, it's sometimes done in science class by 12 year olds, if they have the test kit.

The stories about the soap being "DNA" tested are a lie. Note that none of the universities where these tests have supposedly happened have ever made any sort of press statement, simply because such tests were never done, nor could they have been done. It's just the Holocaust Industry trying to get some attention.

 

[unculbact]

I'm not sure where in hell you heard "diesel gas chamber." The history I've been taught was that it was various chemical agents.

Allegedly, there were six extermination camps. Google any one of these four:

Chelmno, Belzec, Treblinka or Sobibor

You'll discover that the lethal agent alleged to have been used was diesel exhaust. That's what they accused John Demjanjuk of doing at Treblinka - running the diesel engine.

Diesel exhaust isn't poisonous. You can't kill a laboratory mouse with it.

If you're still on the "The Holocaust didn't happen" groupie bandwagon, I simply pity you, and hope you read a book.

Books! Here's a good one. Hope you enjoy it, it'll tell you more about the diesel story.

Treblinka: Extermination Camp or Transit Camp?

http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/

By the way, your links didn't work, but I noted one linked to Dachau.

There was no gas chamber at Dachau. Simon Weisenthal admitted that, as did Dr. Martin Broszat in 1960.

"Neither in Dachau nor in Bergen-Belsen nor in Buchenwald were Jews or other prisoners gassed."

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n3p-9_Staff.html

So - what do you think now of "the history you've been taught"?

 

[Lovelynice]

Second point. I'm not sure where in hell you heard "diesel gas chamber." The history I've been taught was that it was various chemical agents.

as unculbact just pointed out, and as is frequently mentioned throughout this thread, the Aktion Reinhardt camps allegedly had Diesel gas chambers. These things DO NOT WORK. Neither do the Diesel gas "murder" vans.

Now that you've discovered that you're an ignorant twit who didn't have a clue what you were talking about, are you going to get an education and study up next time before you start chuckling like a moronic fool?

 

[Hooper_X]

Diesel exhaust isn't poisonous. You can't kill a laboratory mouse with it.

This is a ridiculous statement. One of the principal components of diesel exhaust is carbon monoxide, which in high concentrations--say in an unventilated area--can most certainly kill you.

 

[Lovelynice]

I wondered why all of the WTC conspiracy threads died off all of the sudden after an onslaught of actual facts

Sorry dear, but your "actual facts" were mostly garbage.

None of you shills ever managed to prove the cellphone calls were possible, none of you ever managed to show anything really to counter what I stated about the WTC building controlled demolitions.

You can pass onto Pookie that her Dr Frank Green's mathematical simulation doesn't work either. Even his own rigged math, with it's heavily biased assumptions way beyond what NIST was willing to do, collapse is arrested (stopped) at an early stage. That's with his OWN MATH.

This is where....

Energy sources
Kinetic energy from initial freefall 2105MJ
58Ktonnes * g moving through 3.7m
Potential energy from additional downward movement
58Ktonnes * g *[16.5/16] moving through 555mm deflection of impacted storey 325MJ
58Ktonnes * g *[15.5/16] moving through 555mm deflection of impacting storey 305MJ
Compression of remainder of impacting section allowing an effective mass of 58Ktonnes * g *
[[11/2]/16] moving through a proportion of 11 affected storeys elastic deflections of 7.4mm
13MJ
Compression of remainder of impacted section effective mass of 58Ktonnes * g * [17+[5/2]/16]
moving through half of 20 affected storeys elastic deflection of 7.4mm 52MJ
Total energy available 2700MJ
Energy demands
Pulverisation of impacting floor concrete 128MJ
Pulverisation of impacted floor concrete 128MJ
Energy consumed by inertial changes in collision 1010MJ
Strain energy in impacting storey 710MJ
58Ktonnes * g * [Dr. Greening's safety factor of 2] moving through 555mm deflection of
impacted storey * [29/30]
Strain energy in impacted storey 710MJ

58Ktonnes * g * [Dr. Greening's safety factor of 2] moving through 555mm deflection of
impacted storey * [29/30]
Elastic strain energy in remainder of impacting section 26MJ effective mass of 58Ktonnes * g *
2 * [(11/2)/16] moving through a proportion of 11 affected storeys' full elastic deflection of
7.4mm
Elastic strain energy in remainder of impacted section 104MJ effective mass of half of
58Ktonnes * g * 2 * [17+(4/2)/16] moving through half of 4 affected storeys' full elastic
deflection of 7.4mm
Total Energy demands 2816MJ

Energy DEFICIT 2816 - 2700 = 116MJ

Well, he's not getting the $1 million dollar prize money for proving that the WTC collapses were NOT controlled demolitions either.



I've been quite busy debating on another site.

 

[Lovelynice]

This is a ridiculous statement. One of the principal components of diesel exhaust is carbon monoxide, which in high concentrations--say in an unventilated area--can most certainly kill you.

Hoop_X,

Not true.

CO is only present in MINIMAL quantities in DIESEL exhaust.

Please take the time to read through the thread. This subject has already been dealt with.

It appears that you are getting confused with car engines.

unculbact had to repeat the same thing before, and there's a lot more besides this which shows that DIESEL exhaust is not lethal inside 3 hours exposure in a very dangerously explosive vapourised mixture, otherwise it takes hours and hours to kill anything.

I guess I'll have to post it again.

Here’s the 1957 British Industrial Medicine study, using live animals exposed to diesel exhaust. Unlike spark-ignition engines, diesel exhaust contains almost no carbon monoxide, and is so safe, you can run a diesel in a coal mine.

R.E. PRATTLE, Et al: THE TOXICITY OF FUMES FROM DIESEL ENGINES UNDER FOUR DIFFERENT RUNNING CONDITIONS (1957)

http://www.vho.org/GB/c/FPB/ToxDiesel.html

Under normal operating conditions, they couldn't kill a laboratory mouse with it.

FINALLY, by practically tearing the engine apart and running it at a ridiculous profile, they were able to kill the mice, the rats, and the rabbits. BUT IT TOOK THEM THREE HOURS AND FORTY-FIVE MINUTES! Even after the first hour, some of the mice - MICE! - were still alive.

That's highly technical and thick, this is a a little easier to read, and it references that study. You might want to skip directly to Chapter 7, that's where he addresses diesel toxicity.

Diesel Gas Chambers Ideal for Torture — Absurd for Murder
by Friedrich Paul Berg

http://www.nazigassings.com/dieselgaschambera.html

Death from diesel exhaust, IF it comes, comes from pulmonary edema - fluid buildup in your lungs - induced by irritants and particulates. That not only explains why it's so slow, but means that it would be more efficient to use smoke from a campfire, since that contains many more irritants.

 

[Nathon_88]

as unculbact just pointed out, and as is frequently mentioned throughout this thread, the Aktion Reinhardt camps allegedly had Diesel gas chambers. These things DO NOT WORK. Neither do the Diesel gas "murder" vans.

Now that you've discovered that you're an ignorant twit who didn't have a clue what you were talking about, are you going to get an education and study up next time before you start chuckling like a moronic fool?

Prove it! You go stick yourself and unculbact in a locked room with no air exhaust for 6 hours and start a diesel truck there. I'll wait. If you two walk out, you're obviously right. You two decide you want to play "doubt", and start screaming insults instead of backing up your claims with sources. Instead of attacking someone, try explaining it instead, Lovelynice.

I'll give you this - "Diesel engines produce low amounts of carbon monoxide." -Souce, wikipedia.

Maybe you'd live through it. Doubtful, as oxygen IS consumed in the process.

*shrugs*

Two things.

1) I note that as soon as I started calling you on the numbers you were throwing out, you changed topics. Care to explain why? Couldn't find something to back up your stats that at least looked official?

2) Okay. *shrugs* Perhaps the numbers of the Holocaust was overexaggerated. I have been willing to admit that. I noted in my first post in thie thread that other numbers have been exaggerated as well.

However, your claim that the holocaust never happened entirely?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

Wow. Wonders never cease. Where's our leading poster coming from again?

"Japan

Japan is a safe and flourishing sanctuary for Holocaust deniers. A number of groups and distinguished persons deny the Holocaust and publicly present their studies without any hesitation.

“The Study Group on Historical Revisionism”（歴史的修正主義研究会）[42] is the leading study group of Holocaust denial on the Internet.

The website “The Upset Suit of Miss Sofia” （ソフィア先生の逆転裁判）[43] explains Holocaust denial in a relaxed but elaborate manner with a number of manga-like illustrations. As a result countless young people in Japan believe that the Holocaust is no more than a story that was invented.

Many assume that both organisations are presided over by a famous professor at a university in Saitama prefecture."

And this is coming from a country that still refuses to admit their own war guilt. I honestly believe that Germany has done a VERY good job of admitting that they were in the wrong, and continuing to do so. Your attempts at "revision" are a step backwards. I give you a few inches, and all of a sudden, you want a mile.

Have fun playing with the facts and distorting the truth.

Honestly? Here's 3 sites for you to look up.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/
http://www.nizkor.org/
http://dmoz.org/Society/Issues/Race-Ethnic-Religious_Relations/Holocaust_Denial/Opposing_Views/

 

[Lovelynice]

Prove it!

We already HAVE

Many times.

Why don't stop showing off your ignorance and read through the thread?

Here is it is again!

I guess I'll have to post it again.

Here’s the 1957 British Industrial Medicine study, using live animals exposed to diesel exhaust. Unlike spark-ignition engines, diesel exhaust contains almost no carbon monoxide, and is so safe, you can run a diesel in a coal mine.

R.E. PRATTLE, Et al: THE TOXICITY OF FUMES FROM DIESEL ENGINES UNDER FOUR DIFFERENT RUNNING CONDITIONS (1957)

http://www.vho.org/GB/c/FPB/ToxDiesel.html

Under normal operating conditions, they couldn't kill a laboratory mouse with it.

FINALLY, by practically tearing the engine apart and running it at a ridiculous profile, they were able to kill the mice, the rats, and the rabbits. BUT IT TOOK THEM THREE HOURS AND FORTY-FIVE MINUTES! Even after the first hour, some of the mice - MICE! - were still alive.

That's highly technical and thick, this is a a little easier to read, and it references that study. You might want to skip directly to Chapter 7, that's where he addresses diesel toxicity.

Diesel Gas Chambers Ideal for Torture — Absurd for Murder
by Friedrich Paul Berg

http://www.nazigassings.com/dieselgaschambera.html

Death from diesel exhaust, IF it comes, comes from pulmonary edema - fluid buildup in your lungs - induced by irritants and particulates. That not only explains why it's so slow, but means that it would be more efficient to use smoke from a campfire, since that contains many more irritants.

There's a lot more scientific studies proving the same point.

They're already referred to many times in this thread.

Read them!

 

[Lovelynice]

Prove it!

We already HAVE

Many times.

Why don't stop showing off your ignorance and read through the thread?

Here is it is again!

I guess I'll have to post it again.

Here’s the 1957 British Industrial Medicine study, using live animals exposed to diesel exhaust. Unlike spark-ignition engines, diesel exhaust contains almost no carbon monoxide, and is so safe, you can run a diesel in a coal mine.

R.E. PRATTLE, Et al: THE TOXICITY OF FUMES FROM DIESEL ENGINES UNDER FOUR DIFFERENT RUNNING CONDITIONS (1957)

http://www.vho.org/GB/c/FPB/ToxDiesel.html

Under normal operating conditions, they couldn't kill a laboratory mouse with it.

FINALLY, by practically tearing the engine apart and running it at a ridiculous profile, they were able to kill the mice, the rats, and the rabbits. BUT IT TOOK THEM THREE HOURS AND FORTY-FIVE MINUTES! Even after the first hour, some of the mice - MICE! - were still alive.

That's highly technical and thick, this is a a little easier to read, and it references that study. You might want to skip directly to Chapter 7, that's where he addresses diesel toxicity.

Diesel Gas Chambers Ideal for Torture — Absurd for Murder
by Friedrich Paul Berg

http://www.nazigassings.com/dieselgaschambera.html

Death from diesel exhaust, IF it comes, comes from pulmonary edema - fluid buildup in your lungs - induced by irritants and particulates. That not only explains why it's so slow, but means that it would be more efficient to use smoke from a campfire, since that contains many more irritants.

There's a lot more scientific studies proving the same point.

They're already referred to many times in this thread.

Read them!

 

[Lovelynice]

I note that as soon as I started calling you on the numbers you were throwing out, you changed topics.

You'll have to cite exactly where. I was replying to somebody else, if you bothered to notice.

 

[Lovelynice]

I noticed when I was reading the 1957 study that 10% of the mice didn't die at all, not even after running the Diesel Engine for over 12 hours.

Don't forget the more recent DEFRA report either. It backs up the 1957 Pattel study.

Thank you for reminding me

 

[Hooper_X]

Hoop_X,

Not true.

CO is only present in MINIMAL quantities in DIESEL exhaust.

Please take the time to read through the thread. This subject has already been dealt with.

I'm sorry, but you are full of shit. Diesel combustion is far from complete. Moreover, CO binds with hemoglobin thousands of times better than O2. If you lock someone in an unventilated area and pump in Diesel exhaust, it will kill them.

I have no interest in reading this thread. I really don't care to read the rantings of a bunch of Holocaust deniers. I was merely amazed that someone--who obviously never spent any time on a loading dock--would think that diesel exhaust is virtually free of CO.

 

[Nathon_88]

You'll have to cite exactly where. I was replying to somebody else, if you bothered to notice.

I'll use your words.

"Stop showing off your ignorance and read through the thread."

 

[Lovelynice]

Hooper_X

SCIENCE PROVES YOUR BULLSHIT WRONG

NOW READ THROUGH THE THREAD AND STOP PROVING HOW FUCKING DUMB YOU ARE

Because I couldn't be bothered repeating the same thing ad inifinitum that has already been gone over, argued and won. MANY TIMES over.

The Pattel study proved you wrong, the DEFRA study proved you wrong, every damn scientific study quoted on this thread about diesel exhaust proves you wrong.

I found a similar report into the use of Diesel Engine exhaust, and it makes fairly obvious that it would be very difficult and time-consuming to kill anyone by this method.


Review of effectiveness, environmental impact, humaneness and feasibility of lethal methods for badger control A report to European Wildlife Division, Defra 20 October 2005

Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Nobel House 17 Smith Square London SW1P 3JR Telephone 020 7238 6000 Website: www.defra.gov.uk

Relevant excerpts;

p5. "It is concluded that diesel engines are not suitable for the production of CO as insufficient CO is generated"

p28 "In one experiment where mice, guinea pigs and rabbits were exposed to diesel fumes, no behavioural effects were observed apart from lethargy in mice (Pattle et al., 1957). At post mortem pulmonary congestion, oedema, consolidation and emphysema were found in all animals, including those that survived the exposure. Death in rabbits only occurred after at least 7 hours exposure and was attributed to NOx as well as CO toxicity. In a final test the air intake was obstructed to simulate a badly tuned diesel engine. The resulting exhaust fumes were very dense and white, and also caused intense pain to the eye of a human observer within a few seconds. No other behavioural effects were observed though death occurred between 3 hours 20 minutes and 4 hours 35 minutes after initial exposure."

p30 "Diesel engines are far less efficient than petrol engines at producing CO. The greatest concentration of CO that has been measured in diesel exhaust is 0.2% CO (Lindgren & Hansson,2004). In one experiment where mice, guinea pigs and rabbits were exposed to diesel engine exhaust gases, rabbits did not die after five hours exposure..."

p32 "The diesel engine never reached the lethal concentration at any point and is therefore unsuitable for fumigation."

p36 "8) It is concluded that diesel engines are not suitable for the production of CO as insufficient CO is generated to be widely applicable and irritant pollutants are present in the exhaust gases."

((You could say it's great for torture, but it would take HOURS to kill anyone))

Final conclusions of the DEFRA report;

p68 "1) It is recommended that the following approaches are not given further consideration:
e) Carbon monoxide generated by diesel engine - less humane than other potential fumigants (4.5.1) and UNFEASIBLE (4.5.3)"

As a guy on another site commented, "Don't bother with the Diesel. People would die faster with suffocation".

It makes the claims of "Diesel-gassings", "gas-vans" , and "Diesel Gas Chambers" blatantly ridiculous.

 

[Lovelynice]

I have no interest in reading this thread.

Goodbye then,

Every thing you have brought up so far has already been brought up by others. If you wish to bring up exactly the same bullshit again without even taking the time to read through the thread to see what has already been discussed, then you aren't worth debating with.

Now please fuck off and display your intentional ignorance elsewhere.

 

[Lovelynice]

I'll use your words.

"Stop showing off your ignorance and read through the thread."

It's a pity that you don't understand them.

When you've finished reading through the thread, get back to me by PM.

Ciao.

 

[unculbact]

Prove it! You go stick yourself and unculbact in a locked room with no air exhaust for 6 hours and start a diesel truck there.

Pumping diesel exhaust into a room with no air outlet would effectively turn the engine into an air compressor.

Either the doors would blow off the hinges, or the roof would lift off in the same manner as during a tornado. Since the average diesel pumps out exhaust at about 22 psi, Germar Rudolf calculated that it would take 45 seconds before a room of 1,728 cubic feet of standard wooden construction would blow up.

 

[Lovelynice]

Pumping diesel exhaust into a room with no air outlet would effectively turn the engine into an air compressor.

Either the doors would blow off the hinges, or the roof would lift off in the same manner as during a tornado. Since the average diesel pumps out exhaust at about 22 psi, Germar Rudolf calculated that it would take 45 seconds before a room of 1,728 cubic feet of standard wooden construction would blow up.

which is so obvious, it's stunning that the loonies keep trying to pretend that those Diesel Gas Chambers were even slightly plausible,

 

[2ndSight]

I've changed my mind. I was sceptical at first, but Lovelynice and Krastner and Unculbact argued their point and proved it. The absolutism in the denials despite all evidence of so many other people who posted on this thread only further convinced me that there was something fishy going on. I've been reading up the background on the whole holocaust myth, and discovered what it is - a myth. It's a myth kept alive by vested interests, and by liars, and tellers of tall tales, but it is a myth,

 

[Holy Devil]

Tis sad that evil is denied by those that have never experienced it.

Its also sad that those who experienced the holocaust are also practicing it. The Palestinians are slowly being annihilated by the Jews.