❓ PLP Inquires II ❓

[Mei5ter]

03.15.22

Let's talk Lit forgiveness.

I was discussing this with someone yesterday saying that Lit as a whole doesn't forgive easily. One biggish fuck up and someone will remind you of it for life. Which I think sucks. Then today, I've watched someone behave in way that made me dislike them 2 years ago and 2 years before that someone warned me of this same behavior.

So community, Lit forgiveness, yea or nay? Are you someone who remembers mistakes and remains wary? Or do you forgive and forget bad behavior and hope for growth? Is your Lit approach different than real life? Do you care about the opinions of your community?

The thread title actually asks whether Lit itself is forgiving. Whether individual Litsters are or aren't forgiving on an individual level is obviously part of that, but 'Lit' is also a thing in its own right.

Lit is a social media platform. It always has been, really, even though I believe Lit's origins predate the appearance of modern social media as we now know it. But this is something which the recent format changes have made explicit, as several posters have commented recently. And social media is an extremely unforgiving environment. With the exception of DMs, every post and interaction we make is public and, for all that people try to take down embarrassing posts, it's extremely hard to unsay something once it's 'out there', however briefly. So when you look at someone's posting history here, what you see is *everything* they've posted, good and bad, often with no context to guide you, and potentially spanning a lengthy time period. Forgetting needs to be able to come after forgiving. It's extremely difficult to have your mistakes forgotten on a site like Lit.

I'm old enough to have watched social attitudes change during my adult life. Some humour that was acceptable when I was in my teens and twenties is no longer okay. I told jokes then which I wouldn't tell now. I saw the world differently. I've changed. And this is something else Lit is very bad at dealing with. Because someone's profile is current, it's far too easy that views someone expressed a few years ago are also still current. It should be obvious that people change - we vote different politicians in and out all the time - but Lit is very bad at reflecting that. If someone's only post on a sensitive topic dates back to 2012, it's all too easy to assume that those views are still current. Chances are, they may not be. But they're still there, and we're still judged by them. When you come to Lit, every mistake and misstep you make is preserved for public examination, so that new Litsters can find them, judge you, and leave you with yet more explaining to do and forgiveness to seek.

Elsewhere in our lives, we encourage kids and adults alike that it's a noble thing to learn by trial and error - to fail, pick yourself up, and learn from our mistakes, try again, and do better. There is a lot on Lit about people needing to 'do better' at the moment. It's very hard to do that when your failures here are on constant view. Falling short on social media can have permanent consequences which are beyond any individual's agency to rectify.

There is a strange paradox here. The anonymity of Lit makes it possible to talk freely about things we'd find much harder to explore in the offline world (I started on the BDSM threads here), and I've learned a great deal from that. But there are many areas of the PG where I simply won't post for fear of saying something which leads to me being permanently and publicly labelled and judged. I watch it happen to others. I don't want that for me.

 

[Dribble]

I have started working on my family's genealogy again. I have roughly 7 generations of info give or take the family branch I look at. What I have found stunning, is the number of divorces starting with my parent's generation. 3....4 each. It wasn't that people didn't remarry previous to that...but it was because of death. Every generation starting with my parents, I see the exact same trend.

Obviously, a skill was lost. How to communicate. How to work together. How to be happy with what you have...not seeing the other side of the fence as greener. Then I look at society as a whole...and I see the same trends. Could it really be this simple?

My question....do you see the same thing in your family? A movement away from family structure stability...to what appears to be a fuck you....I want a divorce mentality. Why was it so different then? What am I missing?

 

[cheekygirl75]

I have started working on my family's genealogy again. I have roughly 7 generations of info give or take the family branch I look at. What I have found stunning, is the number of divorces starting with my parent's generation. 3....4 each. It wasn't that people didn't remarry previous to that...but it was because of death. Every generation starting with my parents, I see the exact same trend.

Obviously, a skill was lost. How to communicate. How to work together. How to be happy with what you have...not seeing the other side of the fence as greener. Then I look at society as a whole...and I see the same trends. Could it really be this simple?

My question....do you see the same thing in your family? A movement away from family structure stability...to what appears to be a fuck you....I want a divorce mentality. Why was it so different then? What am I missing?

In the past, it was partly because women didn’t have as much choice to get divorced. They might not have a way to support themselves and therefore still end up dependent on their ex husband through alimony. Or the social stigma for a woman who was divorced was a lot higher.

I think the number of divorces will start declining, if they haven’t started already, now that people are getting married later, when they know better what they want and who they are.

 

[Justadesperatewifeandmom]

I have started working on my family's genealogy again. I have roughly 7 generations of info give or take the family branch I look at. What I have found stunning, is the number of divorces starting with my parent's generation. 3....4 each. It wasn't that people didn't remarry previous to that...but it was because of death. Every generation starting with my parents, I see the exact same trend.

Obviously, a skill was lost. How to communicate. How to work together. How to be happy with what you have...not seeing the other side of the fence as greener. Then I look at society as a whole...and I see the same trends. Could it really be this simple?

My question....do you see the same thing in your family? A movement away from family structure stability...to what appears to be a fuck you....I want a divorce mentality. Why was it so different then? What am I missing?

I am not so sure it was skills lost, at least in full. Options gained plays a part. My family lives forever, so I knew 4 prior generations. The one life lesson every female always tried to impart on me whenever no one was watching was never let yourself get stuck with a man. Reminders to learn to drive, always work, don't get pregnant, don't quit working for kids, even tips on hiding money. Do better than them, so I wouldn't be get stuck like them was a constant theme. Great great grandmother and great grandmother both never worked a day in their lives, never completed high school, never learned how to drive a car, or pay bills, often couldn't leave the house without Grandpa's. Grandmother praised god everyday her husband left her for a younger woman. She got a job and her license in her late 30s. Never so much as went on a date after, swore she'd never ever again risk ending up back there. My mom is on number 4, but only made each move when there was another lined up, never finished high school, got her license in her 30s. All the kids are grown so I suspect if she wants out of this one, she will be done. My great aunts, all the same, mostly uneducated, never drove, never worked, whispering don't get stuck like me. It took until like the 70s for the no fault divorce. When both parties think they have a choice, rates go up. Since women request 2/3rds of divorces, I think employment options, driving, etc gave more the ability to believe they had a choice. As far as I can tell, the mentality was always there. The difference is I want out became I want a divorce when divorce became obtainable. Though maybe the elderly women in my family were the exception, but it was so prevalent among the elderly women I knew, that I think wanting it was more common than the records show.

 

[Orchidea73]

My question....do you see the same thing in your family? A movement away from family structure stability...to what appears to be a fuck you....I want a divorce mentality. Why was it so different then? What am I missing?

I saw this the other day. lol
https://i.imgur.com/m5XZZZp.jpg

 

[Paul_Chance]

I have started working on my family's genealogy again. I have roughly 7 generations of info give or take the family branch I look at. What I have found stunning, is the number of divorces starting with my parent's generation. 3....4 each. It wasn't that people didn't remarry previous to that...but it was because of death. Every generation starting with my parents, I see the exact same trend.

Obviously, a skill was lost. How to communicate. How to work together. How to be happy with what you have...not seeing the other side of the fence as greener. Then I look at society as a whole...and I see the same trends. Could it really be this simple?

My question....do you see the same thing in your family? A movement away from family structure stability...to what appears to be a fuck you....I want a divorce mentality. Why was it so different then? What am I missing?

I've got a long (and huge) family tree - on both sides, the Scots-Irish immigrants and the Native Americans. If you look at the family tree there are a lot of people (male and female) married multiple times, but there are also a lot of people with one marriage. Because of the Native American heritage our marriage/divorce records only start with my grandfathers generation and when you look on the other side of the equation with the immigration (in the Civil War era), the records are broken and pieced back together.

My great-uncle was a known bigamist (three wives, three different states) and actually fled Kansas ahead of a bigamy warrant. But, my grandfather was married twice (first marriage ended in her death, I never knew her at it happened prior to my being born, then until his death). My mother was married twice (both ended in death, then she died). My siblings can be divided into three groups. Never married (myself and one sister), married once (one sister, one brother), and then the other brother and sister racked up 11 divorces between them and they're still going strong.

I think, as a society, once divorce became "with or without cause", or no fault - it just became more common and I think it's good for society. No legal reason to stay in a bad relationship. (This is more aligned with the Native American side of the family where divorce does not carry (and never did) the same stigma. In our tribe, all a woman had to do to divorce a man was throw his shit out. She "owned" the lodge. All he had to do to divorce was move his shit out. Both of them could get a bad reputation for doing it too often, but that was about it. You just packed up and moved to another band.

 

[Dribble]

I can accept these as possibilities. Thanks

 

[PrettyLilPussy19]

03.29.22

Initial Red Flags

Before you know someone, either in their initial PM or when you "research" their posts or when you very first meet someone, what are the red flags you look for? What are some red flags you weren't looking for but that have smacked you in the face? What are red flags you've missed in the past?

 

[oneblueye]

03.15.22

Let's talk Lit forgiveness.

I was discussing this with someone yesterday saying that Lit as a whole doesn't forgive easily. One biggish fuck up and someone will remind you of it for life. Which I think sucks. Then today, I've watched someone behave in way that made me dislike them 2 years ago and 2 years before that someone warned me of this same behavior.

So community, Lit forgiveness, yea or nay? Are you someone who remembers mistakes and remains wary? Or do you forgive and forget bad behavior and hope for growth? Is your Lit approach different than real life? Do you care about the opinions of your community?

I think, YAY in regards to forgiveness.
TRUST BUT VERIFY
As for myself, I can't 'forget' ---, but I don't always let that stand in the way of good sense or a good time.
My approach is the same whether here (LIT) or there {R/L}.
I don't care what my Community's opinions of me or my opinions are --it isn't like I'm gonna change them. Yes, I can and do listen with an open mind to what others have to say and let them have their say.
However, whats mine is mine and unless I'm shown a good WHY, that I should consider as an alternative...then NO---, I don't care what most anyone has say about me or my opinions.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

03.29.22

Initial Red Flags

Before you know someone, either in their initial PM or when you "research" their posts or when you very first meet someone, what are the red flags you look for? What are some red flags you weren't looking for but that have smacked you in the face? What are red flags you've missed in the past?

Huge red flags for me are someone who PM's without ever having interacted with me on the boards, or worse - with little or no post history at all. I'm also wary of people who make one aspect of their lives their entire personality - like if you drive a certain car, are a gun owner, are super into Pokemon or whatever. Nothing against any of those, but if that's all we ever hear about from you, I'll pass. The last red flag that comes to mind that has smacked me in the face, that I should have seen coming, is when someone wants to get way too close way too quickly. I have lots of boundaries - some more porous than others. If someone's trying to charge right through them right off the bat, that's a huge no-no for me. Let me get to know you first, then I'll decide how much of my life I'll let you into. And that's gonna take time.

 

[Dribble]

03.29.22

Initial Red Flags

Before you know someone, either in their initial PM or when you "research" their posts or when you very first meet someone, what are the red flags you look for? What are some red flags you weren't looking for but that have smacked you in the face? What are red flags you've missed in the past?

The one common one I use is who their friends are. It is very difficult to identify what makes any one individual click given anonymity. But like attracts like

 

[SinfuIDreams]

03.29.22

Initial Red Flags

Before you know someone, either in their initial PM or when you "research" their posts or when you very first meet someone, what are the red flags you look for? What are some red flags you weren't looking for but that have smacked you in the face? What are red flags you've missed in the past?

It depends on how they found me and the context of the first pm. If it's regarding my current SRPs I don't look to hard most SRP readers or writers rarely interact on other forums.
If it's over a pic and something like "sexy ass." I also don't dig into these ones they get a brief thank you message.
If it's over a post or something I have let out about my real life then I dig and dig hard.
Red flags to me are pretty broad but the main ones I look for are how they interact with others, how others interact with them. If they spend a lot of time quoting other people and they get little or no response there is a reason behind that.

I take breaks away from lit frequently or I spend periods just writing, I'm not always in the know of who is safe to chat with or those already in relationships on here so I tend to stay on the cautious side.

 

[LaisDeMarieDeFrance]

03.29.22

Initial Red Flags

Before you know someone, either in their initial PM or when you "research" their posts or when you very first meet someone, what are the red flags you look for? What are some red flags you weren't looking for but that have smacked you in the face? What are red flags you've missed in the past?

Now initially I look for lots of passive aggressive comments and are they constantly in "arguments" on here. Once communication starts, if I feel like they're pressuring me in any way, I cut it off. It's taken me a while to get to the point where I'll "delete and block" someone for pressuring me to do something once I've said no. This week someone asked me "can't you sneak somewhere?" after I had already said no, so I replied "no means no" and blocked him. No more 2nd and 3rd chances. I'm not putting up with that anymore.

 

[Justadesperatewifeandmom]

03.29.22

Initial Red Flags

Before you know someone, either in their initial PM or when you "research" their posts or when you very first meet someone, what are the red flags you look for? What are some red flags you weren't looking for but that have smacked you in the face? What are red flags you've missed in the past?

Lit, oh yes I have red flags. 1) posting personal ads or constantly replying to personal ads with "sent a pm". I've met less needy toddlers, who also tantrum less. 2) low post count. If they are sticking around and are interesting, I will see them again later, I can wait. 3) frequent condescending, self-righteous, pompous rants about their infallible opinions and superior intellect. I'll just end up wanting to stab them with a spork when they demonstrate their superiority by mansplaining right and left tampons. 4) Constant bemoaning. I do not wish to feel obligated to hold a place as someone's antidepressant.

I came into Lit, blank with no expectations so all of these are flags I've missed repetitively enough, I've had to make flags. In life, my "red flags" are more subtle and fluid, often made by observing how they are interacting with me, however, in person, it is easier to see when things are "off".

 

[PrettyLilPussy19]

Whew, Juata holding church today

 

[Karabare]

03.29.22

Initial Red Flags

Before you know someone, either in their initial PM or when you "research" their posts or when you very first meet someone, what are the red flags you look for? What are some red flags you weren't looking for but that have smacked you in the face? What are red flags you've missed in the past?

Repetitive posts, the same jokes and quotes, red flag because they're probably boring. The cut and paste introduction is always a no go.
Things I've missed in the past are... endless dumb little things really.

 

[Paul_Chance]

03.29.22

Initial Red Flags

Before you know someone, either in their initial PM or when you "research" their posts or when you very first meet someone, what are the red flags you look for? What are some red flags you weren't looking for but that have smacked you in the face? What are red flags you've missed in the past?

I've only got a handful of "red flags". Online, when I first meet someone I'll glance at their recent posts to see how they're presenting online. Excessive personal fights with other Litsters in a big red flag to me. Another is excessive posts about their love of alcohol and drugs. Random ranting is the third.

In the first/early PM exchanges a non-balanced information exchange over those first few posts will be a red-flag. Another is if they're not having a conversation with you, but rather seem to be having a conversation with themselves with you as a spectator. The third there is abusive language right out of the starting gate.

I yellow flag relationship expectations that out of line with mine. Not that I won't talk to them, but rather that I'm not the White Night. (LOL - Bonus points if anyone knows the movie quote: "I'm not the guy to carry your guitar.")

Probably the only place I've missed is the "undercover crazy" - you know the ones, they present well, they seem sane for a while, then out of the blue full on crazy appears - with no explanation. Another one that I have encountered and missed early on is the subtle and repeated references to a former partner in a derogatory way, which lets you know they're not over that partner yet. I'd call that one more of a yellow flag - they may be working their way through recent trauma (I'll try to help), but they may also be looking for someone to punish for what their ex did.

Finally, the other one that I would consider as a yellow flag is the demand for personal information right out of the gate. I understand why people do it. I am just not interested in it. (I mean the one who start out with "send me your picture with verification and give me your phone number" in the second or third PM.)

 

[Love_Is_Blonde]

03.29.22

Initial Red Flags

Before you know someone, either in their initial PM or when you "research" their posts or when you very first meet someone, what are the red flags you look for? What are some red flags you weren't looking for but that have smacked you in the face? What are red flags you've missed in the past?

I feel like messages that are overly familiar right off the bat are unnerving. I don’t know them so why are they acting as if we are the best of friends, or more than friends? Also messages where a man tries to be extra dominant and expects me to play along with that. No, that’s not how this works. Or someone who gets upset if their message isn’t returned promptly enough.

I think all of that boils down to someone who thinks they are entitled to something they haven’t earned.

Oh and “read receipts”. What’s with that??

 

[Justadesperatewifeandmom]

I've only got a handful of "red flags". Online, when I first meet someone I'll glance at their recent posts to see how they're presenting online. Excessive personal fights with other Litsters in a big red flag to me. Another is excessive posts about their love of alcohol and drugs. Random ranting is the third.

In the first/early PM exchanges a non-balanced information exchange over those first few posts will be a red-flag. Another is if they're not having a conversation with you, but rather seem to be having a conversation with themselves with you as a spectator. The third there is abusive language right out of the starting gate.

I yellow flag relationship expectations that out of line with mine. Not that I won't talk to them, but rather that I'm not the White Night. (LOL - Bonus points if anyone knows the movie quote: "I'm not the guy to carry your guitar.")

Probably the only place I've missed is the "undercover crazy" - you know the ones, they present well, they seem sane for a while, then out of the blue full on crazy appears - with no explanation. Another one that I have encountered and missed early on is the subtle and repeated references to a former partner in a derogatory way, which lets you know they're not over that partner yet. I'd call that one more of a yellow flag - they may be working their way through recent trauma (I'll try to help), but they may also be looking for someone to punish for what their ex did.

Finally, the other one that I would consider as a yellow flag is the demand for personal information right out of the gate. I understand why people do it. I am just not interested in it. (I mean the one who start out with "send me your picture with verification and give me your phone number" in the second or third PM.)

Well, dang, captured the box wine aficionado and random ranting. Those are like two of my top ten favorite hobbies.

I feel like messages that are overly familiar right off the bat are unnerving. I don’t know them so why are they acting as if we are the best of friends, or more than friends? Also messages where a man tries to be extra dominant and expects me to play along with that. No, that’s not how this works. Or someone who gets upset if their message isn’t returned promptly enough.

I think all of that boils down to someone who thinks they are entitled to something they haven’t earned.

Oh and “read receipts”. What’s with that??

oh yeah the dudes who PM like random orders hahahaha. No.

and ah yes the 1st message about how awesome I am, then 60 minutes and 6 messages more, how much I suck. Dude, I was making dinner, thanks for the warning though. I might have responded to the first one before all the impatient follow up. Dodged a bullet there.

 

[Orchidea73]

03.29.22

Initial Red Flags

Before you know someone, either in their initial PM or when you "research" their posts or when you very first meet someone, what are the red flags you look for? What are some red flags you weren't looking for but that have smacked you in the face? What are red flags you've missed in the past?

Funny thing with "red flags", I never look for them, until they appear. But a classic one, that you don't need to look for and you can't miss is: "I've been busy". It's bullcrap. lol

 

[PrettyLilPussy19]

03.29.22

Initial Red Flags

Before you know someone, either in their initial PM or when you "research" their posts or when you very first meet someone, what are the red flags you look for? What are some red flags you weren't looking for but that have smacked you in the face? What are red flags you've missed in the past?

These responses have been really good and mostly agree with all of them, either as a red flag or a yellow flag.

One of my red flags is that I'm constantly playing devil's advocate and giving people a second chance to make a better impression.

But there are a few red flag conversation enders for me -
* If it's an obvious copy and paste.
* If someone PMs me to take a side in a disagreement they aren't involved in.
* If you cross any reasonable conversational barriers (i.e. implying you want to f*** your dogs, which happened recently!). These are things that I assume are only sent for shock value.
* If you assume I want to play with you based on a picture I posted that you also liked. wtf. Or you refer to yourself as my Daddy or give me random tasks. Consent. Learn it, live it, love it.
* Pretension or narcissism of any kind.
* If you're just an asshole to everyone. I don't deal with people who are "secretly really nice".

A few yellow flags that I will proceed with caution and suspicion -
* Justa hit the nail on the head with people (men) who want either an ego boost, a pity party, or an antidepressant. I'm working through my own shit. I don't have the energy to convince you that all women don't hate you and that you aren't ugly. Or to defend my truthful opinion.
* If you are just being nosey. Part of me gets it and I do appreciate a blunt up front question and will usually respond if the question is about me. But I don't pass along other people's information or drama. I understand that a PM in the vein may not always come out right so I try to steer these conversations diplomatically.
* Dribble mentioned the people the someone surrounds themselves with. I agree and disagree and will probably put this in a yellow flag category. It's something to keep in mind but I have friends who are partnered/friends with people I don't like at all and they are lovely friends to me and I've been told someone didn't want to be my friend based on who they thought I was friends with. Like flirting on the boards, I try to keep in mind that public banter and private relationships are worlds apart.
* And this one may seem rude... but if your message needs to be deciphered. No thank you. I like clear, witty communication.

Ok this ends my ramble.

 

[PrettyLilPussy19]

04.01.22

The Stank Filter

How often do you read a message and apply your perceived feelings on the words? I use the word stank filter because that's what I call it with my mother. She can read a perfectly innocuous text and because of her stank mood, she reads it will all the attitude that wasn't intended.

Do your feelings towards the poster make their words immediately easier or harder to read? Do you hear the words in your head when you read them? Have you ever had a misunderstanding when words that you wrote sounded one way to you and the reader had a completely different interpretation? How do you handle this as a writer? A reader?

 

[JKL123]

04.01.22

The Stank Filter

How often do you read a message and apply your perceived feelings on the words? I use the word stank filter because that's what I call it with my mother. She can read a perfectly innocuous text and because of her stank mood, she reads it will all the attitude that wasn't intended.

Do your feelings towards the poster make their words immediately easier or harder to read? Do you hear the words in your head when you read them? Have you ever had a misunderstanding when words that you wrote sounded one way to you and the reader had a completely different interpretation? How do you handle this as a writer? A reader?

I totally understand where you are coming from. I always advise others WATCH what you write. Interpretation is so different when it is words on paper or a screen. If you were having a real conversation your voice inflection tells the person (most of the time) of your intentions. I guess the person as a reader is influenced by the mood they are in at the time of reading.
Here is an example: Get out of here!
Did you think I was angry and wanted you to leave? Were you feeling shock? Were you feeling scared with a need to flee? Those 4 words can induce any of those reactions and many more.
I like the term Stank Filter do you mind if I borrow it?

 

[Justadesperatewifeandmom]

04.01.22

The Stank Filter

How often do you read a message and apply your perceived feelings on the words? I use the word stank filter because that's what I call it with my mother. She can read a perfectly innocuous text and because of her stank mood, she reads it will all the attitude that wasn't intended.

Do your feelings towards the poster make their words immediately easier or harder to read? Do you hear the words in your head when you read them? Have you ever had a misunderstanding when words that you wrote sounded one way to you and the reader had a completely different interpretation? How do you handle this as a writer? A reader?

For the most part, I tend to not apply an attitude based on the poster. The primary exclusion is people who I know are prone to a sarcastic humor, I will apply that humor, most especially if the statement as written does not seem to be the intent. There are, however, certain writers that I may wrongly interpret an almost hubristic tone and quality that I later find may be incorrect. It isn't my view of the poster though, but more the cadence, vocabulary, and overall vernacular. It is usually older men. As such I make an effort to interpret just the logical meaning of the words and assign nothing else. As for me, yes sometimes my sarcasm is not interpreted as such. I need a sarcasm font. If I see it may be interpreted incorrectly, or was taken incorrectly, I attempt to clarify my intent.

 

[jason28053]

For the most part, I tend to not apply an attitude based on the poster. The primary exclusion is people who I know are prone to a sarcastic humor, I will apply that humor, most especially if the statement as written does not seem to be the intent. There are, however, certain writers that I may wrongly interpret an almost hubristic tone and quality that I later find may be incorrect. It isn't my view of the poster though, but more the cadence, vocabulary, and overall vernacular. It is usually older men. As such I make an effort to interpret just the logical meaning of the words and assign nothing else. As for me, yes sometimes my sarcasm is not interpreted as such. I need a sarcasm font. If I see it may be interpreted incorrectly, or was taken incorrectly, I attempt to clarify my intent.

I’m all for the sarcasm font! It would definitely come in handy.