A Hateful Sentence

[cantdog]

I've read the story on the SDC. It doesn't require the sentence. Without the SDC Zoot would never have known that he'd written this enormous beartrap into his first paragraphs.

But now that he knows, take it out. It adds nothing essential, as it turns out. Kill your children.

 

[Penelope Street]

Hi.

I'm the one that expressed concern over this sentence the earliest, and probably the loudest.

Within the story, the sentence in question is not imbedded within a paragraph about Lia. This sentence gets its own paragraph, and it's surrounded by two other paragraphs in which Candy speaks. Within that framing, I believe it can easily be interpreted as a pronouncement by the narrator (note: narrator is not the same as author) that no man will ever select a heavy woman if he can have slender one instead. To me, the narrator in a third person story has the authority to make such sweeping statements- that's one of the powers of that perspective.

I never imagined the opinion expressed in this sentence was that of the author. A great deal of my concern was, and is, that readers might leap to the wrong conclusion regarding the author. This sentence coming as it does early in the story has the potential to turn readers off, or worse. That would be unfortunate, because it's a wonderful story.

As for as the intended meaning of the sentence, I adore the idea that Lia thinks Candy unworthy of masculine attention due to her stature. This is simply a masterful stroke of characterization. I absolutely diagree that this sentence ought be removed in its entirety.

An interesting discussion to be sure, but removing "for Lia" from the middle, and inserting "To Lia" at the beginning, elminates, in my opinion, the chance for the ugliest interpretations. Even if only one percent of readers will misunderstand the line, that one percent is likely to be hurt or angry, or both. Seems a pity not to shift a pair of words to guard against that that possibility?

Take Care,
Penny

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Originally Posted by dr_mabeuse

Candy had a weight problem and so was no competition for Lia, therefore they were friends, or close enough.

---dr.M.

When I critiqued Zoot's story on the SDC, I thought the sentence was a little forced. But the voice and pacing were/are spot on and it didn't bother me enough to make a comment. Had I done so, something like this would have been my suggested alternative:

"In Lia's opinion, Candy's weight problem meant she was no competiton. They were friends, or close enough."

Rumple Foreskin

 

[gauchecritic]

That's what I meant. Honestly. I meant narrator not author. I know there's a difference I just never use the word. (actually it's worse than that, the two words have always meant the same thing to me until lately)

 

[sweetnpetite]

A sentence in a story I posted in the Story Discussion Circle stirred up some real concern and dislike. I'm curious as to what people think.

Here's the scene: Lia, a very ambitious and predatory career woman, is in the Ladies' room at an awards dinner, plotting to put the moves on some guy who can help her career. Her friend comes in, and here's the sentence:

Candy had a weight problem and so was no competition for Lia, therefore they were friends, or close enough.

That's all I'm going to say. I'm not even going to tell you what the objections were. I'd like to hear people's reactions.

---dr.M.

INteresting, I haven't noticed too many being offended by the idea that she's 'puting the moves on some guy' in order to advance her career- only that the overwieght girl can't compete in this way.

They seem to demand political correctness in one area but not in the other. The whole thinking of this girl is flawed, and the only thing that has been zeroed in on is the idea that there is only one attractive body type.

I have to agree though- the sentence itself is clunky. Try to rework it. Beyond that, if people are offended remember that you can't please all of the people all of the time. You have to follow you're own gut.

Sweet.

 

[BlackShanglan]

That's what I meant. Honestly. I meant narrator not author. I know there's a difference I just never use the word. (actually it's worse than that, the two words have always meant the same thing to me until lately)

It takes a brave man to own to it in public.

 

[Pure]

//Candy had a weight problem and so was no competition for Lia, therefore they were friends, or close enough.//

The only actual error is in punctuation, as Black Shang said.

'Therefore' is a bit stilted, but 'so' creates a style problem.

I disagree with those who think Lia's thoughts are being given, which would, when clarified, yield something like

//Cindy had a weight problem, and Lia didn't see any competition, there. So they were friends, or close enough.// NOT

But I'd propose.
//Cindy had a weight problem, and was no competition for Lia [in the sex market; in the mating game; in the race for promotion, --established by context]; so they were friends, or close enough.//

Note that semicolons are out of favor for any general consumption pieces, and even some scholarly pieces; hence that one, above, could well be replaced with a period.

If the narrator is not PC, I don't have a problem with that.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Just wondering-- did you find you're answer here doc?

I was looking over the story and I noticed something I wanted to comment on.

Here's the excerpt w/ my suggested revision

Whoever that bitch was who was trying to make time with Peter Bessinger was about to find out that Lia Callison had brains to go with this beauty, and claws too.

“Too much wine! Too much wine!” Candy Moser pushed into the lady’s room, fanning herself with her hand.

Candy had a weight problem so she was no competition for Lia. They were friends, or close enough.

Now, it is clear that niether the author nor the narrator thinks that the woman making time with Peter Bessenger is a bitch, so it follows that Lia's other thoughts would also be her own. I think that putting in a tag that it's Lia's thought would look sort of rediculous, unless you want to do that with *all* of her thoughts.

I also think that unless you want to cater to the lowest common denominator (and sorry if that sounds snobby) you will have to just accept that some people are going to misunderstand some of the things that you write. IF you want to avoid all misunderstanding from everyone, (or offending anyone) your writing is going to suffer and become pretty mediocre. And I wouldn't want to see that happen.

BTW- he may not be the worlds greatest author (or maybe he is) but Stephen King never worries too much about having his characters/narrators state offensive things. Personally, I've never held any of them (and some have been plenty ugly beleive you me) against him.

That is all.

Good luck.