accepting trump

[Ann_Tagonist]

that is the ineffable. yes.

but the trump hatred clouds
any way forward in governance
as does the trump adoration.

each policy issue becomes a polarized abstraction
beyond party really...
as to wwdjt do.

our current governmental quagmire is as much
over the personality as anything.

You say quagmire like it's a bad thing.

 

[HisArpy]

Hey dumbass, I specifically shot down your statement. The second of that bit has nothing to do with the first. It's the job of the house to pass bills and the senate to vote on them, yes?

No. Not even close.

Please take some civic's lessons and learn how your government functionis.

 

[cowslinger64]

No. Not even close.

Please take some civic's lessons and learn how your government functionis.

Lol... that's what I thought.


Stupid fuck.


You're an idiot and somehow that makes you any kind of expert. When it's no longer the job of the house to pass bills and the senate to vote on them...get back to me.


Same with when 5 something is less than 4 something.

 

[cowslinger64]

When a bill reaches the U.S. Senate, it goes through many of the same steps it went through in the U.S. House of Representatives. The bill is discussed in a Senate committee and then reported to the Senate floor to be voted on.

 

[HisArpy]

When a bill reaches the U.S. Senate, it goes through many of the same steps it went through in the U.S. House of Representatives. The bill is discussed in a Senate committee and then reported to the Senate floor to be voted on.

Wow, LARGE FONT.

As if that makes the ignorance you display less, uh, ignorant.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Lol... that's what I thought.


Stupid fuck.


You're an idiot and somehow that makes you any kind of expert. When it's no longer the job of the house to pass bills and the senate to vote on them...get back to me.


Same with when 5 something is less than 4 something.

^^ Fucks up, doesn't know how the federal government works and calls others stupid when he steps on his own dick.

https://media.giphy.com/media/GKo7pUwEBJmfu/giphy.gif

 

[HisArpy]

Lol... that's what I thought.


Stupid fuck.


You're an idiot and somehow that makes you any kind of expert. When it's no longer the job of the house to pass bills and the senate to vote on them...get back to me.


Same with when 5 something is less than 4 something.

Since when is passing bills the sole exclusive duty of the House under the Constitution? Also, please point where in the Constitution there is a requirement that the Senate take up those bills.

You perhaps might learn a bit more about the things you don't know before you continue to extole virtues you do not possess. Or, IOW, do the math.

 

[HisArpy]

^^ Fucks up, doesn't know how the federal government works and calls others stupid when he steps on his own dick.

https://media.giphy.com/media/GKo7pUwEBJmfu/giphy.gif

'slinger has personally invested his online personna in proving that he's superior by loudly proclaiming it despite any shred of evidence in support.

 

[cleaver]

I'll say one good thing: he's dragging the GOP down with him. They will never separate or recover from Trump. He has destroyed them, while making the Dems stronger.

this actually goes to something that i have posed in other threads...
but only in part.

both parties are antiquated, stodgy and sodden with influence outside of the electorate.

the trump presidency has obliterated the republican party;
slowly creating something other, but still formidable...
i would suggest that it is trying to hold itself together
under his cult of personality... which is a phenomenon.

the trump presidency has also taken jackhammer to the democrats...
demonstrating that the old tried and true tactics
are no longer effective v a different adversary...
a different... 'party'.

the rules, or rather, the decorum, has been shattered...

both "parties" will necessarily have to evolve
to the tools and means of the new order...

and this is a positive, i believe...
a party must be current
and more immediate than they have been.

the fruits of this evolution may take a disgruntled generation
or two to recognize...

 

[Wrong Element]

he is the president after all.

in what has become a trigger-laden quagmire
that almost immediately denigrates into
a tired, invective filled spitball fight,
can we here have a discussion where
supporters of this president
can reasonably and rationally
persuade detractors
as to how he could be considered...
acceptable?

Something that has to be pointed out is that Trump himself has shown no interest in persuading his detractors. He's catered exclusively to his base, and both he and that base delight in snubbing blue states and blue voters.

I don't think Trump is very smart, but one thing his years immersed in the Fox News ecosystem have taught him is that far right voters instinctively react negatively to calls for bipartisanship. "If he's this disliked by liberals, then he's my guy" is the thinking here. I mean, that's basically the sole topic of Botany Boy's last 10,000 posts.

So I'm not expecting a lot of enlightenment.

 

[BotanyBoy]

without being glib, your position on these matters seems crystal clear.
there is antithesis - right/wrong - good/evil? - certainly a polar universe...

In the US political sphere yes.

i'm not convinced.

Then tell me how you reconcile two groups of people who are totally against each other and share no values.

From free speech on down the "progressive" left is 100% against every value the USA was built upon and the right is in support of those values.

a society needs compromise if society is the beneficiary of any policy.

I disagree, I think a society needs shared values.

If we can't agree on the basics shit is just going to continue downhill.

but that is a far different discussion.

Maybe, but I think it's at the core of why the POTUS can do no right/wrong depending on the ideological/party affiliation.

are you saying that trump is negligible
thus, any exercise to make him more palatable is moot?

No I'm saying Trump (or anyone who represents traditional US political values in any way) represents what the "progressive" leftist are against and thus trying to convince them that anyone who is against their un-American values is palatable, is moot.

No shared values? = no palatability = no compromise.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Something that has to be pointed out is that Trump himself has shown no interest in persuading his detractors. He's catered exclusively to his base, and both he and that base delight in snubbing blue states and blue voters.

I don't think Trump is very smart, but one thing his years immersed in the Fox News ecosystem have taught him is that far right voters instinctively react negatively to calls for bipartisanship. "If he's this disliked by liberals, then he's my guy" is the thinking here. I mean, that's basically the sole topic of Botany Boy's last 10,000 posts.

So I'm not expecting a lot of enlightenment.

You need to learn how to read.

Also liberal=/= socialist.....get an education and learn the difference, or don't and just keep looking like another poorly educated leftist who hates the USA and doesn't even realize it.

 

[bodysong]

Lucius Malfoy:

What's the use of being a disgrace to the name of wizard,
if they don't even pay you well for it?

Arthur Weasley:

We have a very different idea about what disgraces
the name of wizard, Malfoy.

source- "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

 

[cleaver]

alright.
let's name call elsewhere.

let us agree that we all consider each other idiots here at this point...

still,

i still do not see this as a polar war, bb.
most people are not so invested nor so fervent,
although i can respect your position...

it does though, set up a crusade mode that...
i'd bet, the majority... the plebeians... have no stomach for.

again... not the point.

your point then is that because of this dynamic you ascribe,
there is no common ground upon which trump can be palatable to the detractors?

what then of the swing vote? it was not the poles that ultimately decided the last election. it was the middle who had a tough choice with either candidate
and swung trump in critical states?

it may have been antipathy towards hrc more than trump juice?
these are not polar voters.

what makes him redeeming...? for those same votes are indeed again in play?

and wrong element is making a very interesting point that does not really conflict with parts of yours...

trump feels no need to placate his detractors...
it is a simple ruthless dynamic...
create an us v them - polar scenario
with neither comity, nor respect offered...
and then, focus the same dynamic on the eventual opponent
as the embodiment of all "evil" while manipulating the focus of the "dialog"...

if one vilifies enough, one wins the swing...

it is crude, effective... modern politics.

what it does though, is stifle pluralism.
there is a huge social cost i believe.

the majority lives nowhere near the political poles
just as the multi facets of trump hatred are...
nowhere uniform.
they run the gamut from politics and policy to personality, temperament and ego... hatred for him because he is a "republican" seems far down the list amongst the rest.

 

[bellisarius]

this actually goes to something that i have posed in other threads...
but only in part.

both parties are antiquated, stodgy and sodden with influence outside of the electorate.

the trump presidency has obliterated the republican party;
slowly creating something other, but still formidable...
i would suggest that it is trying to hold itself together
under his cult of personality... which is a phenomenon.

the trump presidency has also taken jackhammer to the democrats...
demonstrating that the old tried and true tactics
are no longer effective v a different adversary...
a different... 'party'.

the rules, or rather, the decorum, has been shattered...

both "parties" will necessarily have to evolve
to the tools and means of the new order...

and this is a positive, i believe...
a party must be current
and more immediate than they have been.

the fruits of this evolution may take a disgruntled generation
or two to recognize...

Here is where I think you're swerving into a better understanding of what's going on cleaver.

The "new" democrats are at war with the "old" democrats and everyone else as well. They out and out hate the "old" republicans almost as much as they hate Trump. They are forcing the moderate democrats into a very bad place.

The same can be said for the republican side of the house. The difference being that the "old" line republicans will work with Trump on certain issues.

I believe that you're going to see even more chaos on the democrat side once the indictments start to be unsealed. The indictments and resultant revelations are going to have a profound effect on the electorate, and after all that is where the final arbitration is going to take place. The "old" democrats are going to suffer the most from these revelations reducing the "new" democrats to fringe party status. Many of those "old" democrats will end up being replaced by "Trumper's."

That being said Trump still has almost a year and a half to screw the pouch changing the dynamics even further but for the time being the trajectory is in his favor.

 

[HisArpy]

alright.
let's name call elsewhere.

let us agree that we all consider each other idiots here at this point...

still,

i still do not see this as a polar war, bb.
most people are not so invested nor so fervent,
although i can respect your position...

it does though, set up a crusade mode that...
i'd bet, the majority... the plebeians... have no stomach for.

again... not the point.

your point then is that because of this dynamic you ascribe,
there is no common ground upon which trump can be palatable to the detractors?

what then of the swing vote? it was not the poles that ultimately decided the last election. it was the middle who had a tough choice with either candidate
and swung trump in critical states?

it may have been antipathy towards hrc more than trump juice?
these are not polar voters.

what makes him redeeming...? for those same votes are indeed again in play?

and wrong element is making a very interesting point that does not really conflict with parts of yours...

trump feels no need to placate his detractors...
it is a simple ruthless dynamic...
create an us v them - polar scenario
with neither comity, nor respect offered...
and then, focus the same dynamic on the eventual opponent
as the embodiment of all "evil" while manipulating the focus of the "dialog"...

if one vilifies enough, one wins the swing...

it is crude, effective... modern politics.

what it does though, is stifle pluralism.
there is a huge social cost i believe.

the majority lives nowhere near the political poles
just as the multi facets of trump hatred are...
nowhere uniform.
they run the gamut from politics and policy to personality, temperament and ego... hatred for him because he is a "republican" seems far down the list amongst the rest.

You equate that it is Trump who is the one doing the polarizing. I admit he's a polarizing figure, but I don't believe HE is the one doing it. I think America has split along lines which are essentially false battlegrounds as a result of propaganda from both sides over a very long time period and in order to sustain that propaganda, both sides have had to invent new words and subvert old talking points.

It's true that the middle, the swing, is where the votes are. Appease them and they'll vote for you. Part of that appeasement is to give them things to be happy about and point out that your opponents' ideas are to take those happy things away again.

Vilifying your opponent is politics and campaigning. It's often the last resort when you cannot say you are "better". Instead what you are saying is that your opponent is "worse" than you are. It's not a good endorsement of yourself, but when it's obvious the other guy isn't even that good there's really no choice.

Which is why people hold their noses and vote.

 

[Hal9000_]

You equate that it is Trump who is the one doing the polarizing. I admit he's a polarizing figure, but I don't believe HE is the one doing it. I think America has split along lines which are essentially false battlegrounds as a result of propaganda from both sides over a very long time period and in order to sustain that propaganda, both sides have had to invent new words and subvert old talking points.

It's true that the middle, the swing, is where the votes are. Appease them and they'll vote for you. Part of that appeasement is to give them things to be happy about and point out that your opponents' ideas are to take those happy things away again.

Vilifying your opponent is politics and campaigning. It's often the last resort when you cannot say you are "better". Instead what you are saying is that your opponent is "worse" than you are. It's not a good endorsement of yourself, but when it's obvious the other guy isn't even that good there's really no choice.

Which is why people hold their noses and vote.

Damn.

Good.

Post.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

LOL this makes me laugh.

His approval rating is not climbing after 2 1/2 years. It swings 3 or 4 points down and up either way periodically. nothing new about that. No indication that he will ever be a truly popular president.

White suburban women are fleeing the GOP, as proven by the results of the Mid terms--and all the anti-abortion stuff will make it even worse

Minority voters are not increasingly favorable towards Trump.

Social chaos abating? Have no clue what you're talking about.

Judiciary? Trump just lost three big rulings last two weeks. Of course, his stacking the courts will help him eventually; thanks to McConnell. He's "winning over SJWs" is nonsensical blather proving you're nothing but an idiot.

Consumer confidence is high? I don't think so. His approval rating would be much better than it is. Tell it to the people in Ohio and farmers.

The economy just posted its first shit job numbers since 2010. The markets fluctuate wildly in response to an unstable moron. And the "white hot" economy has done absolutely nothing to drive Trump's approval up. And it didn't help one bit in the Mid terms. Keep dreaming.

Those are your "metrics." My metrics are the supposed value the GOP used to stand for. They've tossed them all over the side to align themselves with a corrupt, law-breaking conman racist sexual assaulter wanna be dictator. They are now the party of loyalty to a corrupt cult of personality. They can never go back.

You can keep clinging to this as long as the big fat baby stays afloat, but the big fat balloon will eventually pop, and the GOP will be left with nothing. They will be destroyed as a party.

Based on what metric?

Trump's approval rating is climbing.
White suburban women are increasingly favorable to the R's and Trump.
The percentage of minority voters is increasing favorably to the R's and Trump.
The social chaos of the past few years is finally easing and abating.
The judiciary is finally slow-rolling to the point that Trump is winning in the courts against SJW's.
Consumer confidence is high.
The economy is steaming hot.





So, what metric are you using to determine that Trump has dragged down the GOP and destroyed it? Personal anti-Trump ideology and belief?

 

[BotanyBoy]

your point then is that because of this dynamic you ascribe,
there is no common ground upon which trump can be palatable to the detractors?

It's not an ascription, it's an observable reality.

No, there isn't any common ground.

what then of the swing vote? it was not the poles that ultimately decided the last election. it was the middle who had a tough choice with either candidate
and swung trump in critical states?

The swing vote doesn't mean centrist, it means the L v. R ratio is close.

what makes him redeeming...?

To the left? Nothing....he's everything they hate.

A rich white guy who loves making lots of money, laughing at bums while doing burnouts in his lambo and fucking lots of hot women.

Worst of all though he seems to love the USA and wants to keep it a sovereign and secure nation.

The left absolutely detests all of that.

trump feels no need to placate his detractors...
it is a simple ruthless dynamic...
create an us v them - polar scenario
with neither comity, nor respect offered...
and then, focus the same dynamic on the eventual opponent
as the embodiment of all "evil" while manipulating the focus of the "dialog"...

Why should he??

He didn't create the scenario, he was elected as a result of the scenario.

The scenario being "progressive" left, anti-American values and right, traditional American values .

what it does though, is stifle pluralism.

No pluralism to be had in opposed views.

Can't be free and well kept at the same time, it's impossible to be both.

USA needs to decide what it's going to be, time to shit or get off the pot.

hatred for him because he is a "republican" seems far down the list amongst the rest.

What are all the things on that list?


Nationalism.
Rich white guy.
Individualist
Speaks out against socialism.
Highly capitalistic
Pro-Free speech.
Wants people to immigrate LEGALLY.
Pro-border security.

These are all traditional US (republican) values the left fucking despises.

 

[FGB]

https://youtu.be/NfRg5xHmg4M?t=45

 

[HisArpy]

LOL this makes me laugh.

His approval rating is not climbing after 2 1/2 years. It swings 3 or 4 points down and up either way periodically. nothing new about that. No indication that he will ever be a truly popular president.

White suburban women are fleeing the GOP, as proven by the results of the Mid terms--and all the anti-abortion stuff will make it even worse

Minority voters are not increasingly favorable towards Trump.

Social chaos abating? Have no clue what you're talking about.

Judiciary? Trump just lost three big rulings last two weeks. Of course, his stacking the courts will help him eventually; thanks to McConnell. He's "winning over SJWs" is nonsensical blather proving you're nothing but an idiot.

Consumer confidence is high? I don't think so. His approval rating would be much better than it is. Tell it to the people in Ohio and farmers.

The economy just posted its first shit job numbers since 2010. The markets fluctuate wildly in response to an unstable moron. And the "white hot" economy has done absolutely nothing to drive Trump's approval up. And it didn't help one bit in the Mid terms. Keep dreaming.

Those are your "metrics." My metrics are the supposed value the GOP used to stand for. They've tossed them all over the side to align themselves with a corrupt, law-breaking conman racist sexual assaulter wanna be dictator. They are now the party of loyalty to a corrupt cult of personality. They can never go back.

You can keep clinging to this as long as the big fat baby stays afloat, but the big fat balloon will eventually pop, and the GOP will be left with nothing. They will be destroyed as a party.

OMG, I'm laughing so hard right now...

 

[Hal9000_]

Still, it's blindingly apparent that Trump will say whatever he thinks people want to hear.

 

[Luk]

Damn.

Good.

Post.

No, it's not. The first line is complete horseshit. 45 IS the polarizing figure and the polarizer. From his "Mexicans are rapists" blasts to his calling Nazis fine people.

 

[Hal9000_]

No, it's not. The first line is complete horseshit. 45 IS the polarizing figure and the polarizer. From his "Mexicans are rapists" blasts to his calling Nazis fine people.

Hillary wasn't polarizing?

 

[HisArpy]

Still, it's blindingly apparent that Trump will say whatever he thinks people want to hear.

As will most politicians. Biden just flip-flopped on the Hyde Amendment in order to pander for votes he'll need to stand some chance of not being made to look foolish in the general election (assuming he makes it past the primary).