accepting trump

[cleaver]

certainly the traditional concept of party on both sides has been disrupted.

localities have adapted/ contributed to this
with a move towards open primaries
and the like... devaluing the old party machine
in favor of a focus on individual candidates...

the machine becomes an anachronism
when cheap, plentiful and multi faceted media opportunities
afford any message to nourish and flourish
with an electorate.

the rise of the citizen candidate
rather than a dogmatically groomed and pre approved one
actually brings our representative govt...
closer? to what may have been intended.

party no longer can demand absolute fealty.

the mantles remain though.
and with them, many still find some ... inertial comforts.
although most folks will admit these days that...
their party affiliation - whatever it might be - fits more
like a walmart suit than one from saville row...

trumpism is the republican party.
the republican party as we knew it only resides in the remnants and memory...
not much there without the trump.

the democrats, in lieu of having a strong personality per se,
have a freaking rainbow spectrum of hydra
demagogicly cultivating their own fiefdoms...
and not playing well together...

on this, biden - by staying out of the immediate fray -
may be cultivating the best play...
surviving, moderating... and tying up the pieces for the eventual run...

for in truth. the best policy the rem-dems can coalesce to muster is...
beat trump.

again, this really is askew from the op.

and yet...
we here cannot tackle what makes trump redeemable to the antis...
charm? grace? wits? wile? etc...?
there are bits in all of that that are remarkable.
but almost all go to the person...
the remnants of party are an unsustainable apparatus only.

 

[BotanyBoy]

No, it's not. The first line is complete horseshit. 45 IS the polarizing figure and the polarizer. From his "Mexicans are rapists" blasts to his calling Nazis fine people.

LOL....He didn't say either of those things.

 

[HisArpy]

No, it's not. The first line is complete horseshit. 45 IS the polarizing figure and the polarizer. From his "Mexicans are rapists" blasts to his calling Nazis fine people.

Irony is strong in this post.

 

[Hal9000_]

As will most politicians. Biden just flip-flopped on the Hyde Amendment in order to pander for votes he'll need to stand some chance of not being made to look foolish in the general election (assuming he makes it past the primary).

The buck stops ...somewhere else.

BTW, you're fired!

 

[cleaver]

again, i implore you to take the back yard fence squabble
to the:

why i hate you and here's a witty variation on that thread.

ceteris paribus - all equally irritating idiots in this thread.
leave that shit out of the discourse, for it is long settled precedent.

 

[HisArpy]

certainly the traditional concept of party on both sides has been disrupted.

localities have adapted/ contributed to this
with a move towards open primaries
and the like... devaluing the old party machine
in favor of a focus on individual candidates...

the machine becomes an anachronism
when cheap, plentiful and multi faceted media opportunities
afford any message to nourish and flourish
with an electorate.

the rise of the citizen candidate
rather than a dogmatically groomed and pre approved one
actually brings our representative govt...
closer? to what may have been intended.

party no longer can demand absolute fealty.

the mantles remain though.
and with them, many still find some ... inertial comforts.
although most folks will admit these days that...
their party affiliation - whatever it might be - fits more
like a walmart suit than one from saville row...

trumpism is the republican party.
the republican party as we knew it only resides in the remnants and memory...
not much there without the trump.

the democrats, in lieu of having a strong personality per se,
have a freaking rainbow spectrum of hydra
demagogicly cultivating their own fiefdoms...
and not playing well together...

on this, biden - by staying out of the immediate fray -
may be cultivating the best play...
surviving, moderating... and tying up the pieces for the eventual run...

for in truth. the best policy the rem-dems can coalesce to muster is...
beat trump.

again, this really is askew from the op.

and yet...
we here cannot tackle what makes trump redeemable to the antis...
charm? grace? wits? wile? etc...?
there are bits in all of that that are remarkable.
but almost all go to the person...
the remnants of party are an unsustainable apparatus only.

I don't think what you deem as Trumpism is the real Republican party. I think that the Republican party continues to hold certain values while other non-core values have changed or morphed. It's also not true to say that either party has a "single value" which comprises it's political entirety.

Republican's are much more than "anti abortion, guns, and religion" just as Democrats are more than "anti-gun, abortion, and socialism".

The usual political discussion has traditionally been about the way the nation moves forward. Since 2015 this has changed. Now it's not about moving forward but inhibiting the other side from moving at all. The conflict arises in how those 2 objectives are achieved.

On the R side, they are working within the rules and rule of law to change the dynamics of government. On the D side, they are promoting social chaos and anti-social behavior in order to cow opposition.

As for your closing paragraph, nothing about Trump can be seen to be "good" by the D's. In their eyes Melania is a whore; Ivanka is a bitch whore; and Don Jr. and Eric are unprosecuted criminals. Even the actual accomplishments Trump has achieved are considered to be "setbacks". And the good proposals (such as his DACA plan) which would end some of the social conflict are either ignored or dismissed.

 

[Hal9000_]

again, i implore you to take the back yard fence squabble
to the:

why i hate you and here's a witty variation on that thread.

ceteris paribus - all equally irritating idiots in this thread.
leave that shit out of the discourse, for it is long settled precedent.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTGzCNs_mb56TwvHyhLxW9W0PsidRA0JTGH_MgCZA_dEU0QWUcM

 

[cleaver]

I don't think what you deem as Trumpism is the real Republican party. I think that the Republican party continues to hold certain values while other non-core values have changed or morphed. It's also not true to say that either party has a "single value" which comprises it's political entirety.

Republican's are much more than "anti abortion, guns, and religion" just as Democrats are more than "anti-gun, abortion, and socialism".

The usual political discussion has traditionally been about the way the nation moves forward. Since 2015 this has changed. Now it's not about moving forward but inhibiting the other side from moving at all. The conflict arises in how those 2 objectives are achieved.

On the R side, they are working within the rules and rule of law to change the dynamics of government. On the D side, they are promoting social chaos and anti-social behavior in order to cow opposition.

As for your closing paragraph, nothing about Trump can be seen to be "good" by the D's. In their eyes Melania is a whore; Ivanka is a bitch whore; and Don Jr. and Eric are unprosecuted criminals. Even the actual accomplishments Trump has achieved are considered to be "setbacks". And the good proposals (such as his DACA plan) which would end some of the social conflict are either ignored or dismissed.

i think you cling to the remnants of party more than you know.

the national parties are struggling to maintain some identity
by co-opting what had been core values to follow... or deny

trump.

be it the times or the man,
the national parties have morphed into binary functionaries.
there is no compromise to speak of...
until no compromise itself has no value politically...
(look at the just passed 14 month old disaster bill)

the parties in the localities (cities/states) are more responsive to their electorates
but are greatly degraded by the national ones...
again...

that goes to trump.

and as has been offered by some above...
trump cares not about those who do not approve fully of him...

this does go to trump as instigator, disruptor, lightning rod... happenstance usurper of a moment.... whatever?

and in this, i realize that my op is...
well, i called it an exercise.

perhaps this dynamic is something we will just have to go through
instead of trying to go through it with any sense of "together"...
(my libertarian friends should get a lift out of that)

the results may be something that none of the traditionals might have envisioned...

but your party - and mine - will resemble nothing of which we see today.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

he is the president after all.

in what has become a trigger-laden quagmire
that almost immediately denigrates into
a tired, invective filled spitball fight,
can we here have a discussion where
supporters of this president
can reasonably and rationally
persuade detractors
as to how he could be considered...
acceptable?

the antipathy runs deep.
so, it seems, does the admiration.

as a civil exercise,
can the adherents enlighten the deterrents
to some pathway of acceptance?

what's the point?

the contention would be that the vilification/deification of this president
has become the hackneyed - lazy go-to in any such discourse here;
leaving most policy issue discussions victim
to a broken-record, personal hate-fuck fest
with donald j trump as the titular catalyst.

in what ways can trump be shown acceptable;
to encourage better discourse on more pressing matters?

keep it civil.

In addition to Trumpa being a thoroughly repugnant individual, absent any redeeming characteristics he he represents the political far right. The majority of US citizens will never support an extremist.

 

[Hal9000_]

he represents the political far right.

"Represents" is the key word.

He is actually exactly what he tries to hate.

 

[FGB]

"trumpism is the republican party."

Wrong.

Republicans by themselves did NOT put Trump in office in 2016 and by ourselves will not in 2020.

THAT honor lies with the great number of rank and file Democrats that realized their party Is fucking crackers.

They voted for the type of country that they wanted to live in.

The big fear on the Democratic/Liberal/Socialist side is that they will do it again!

We are hoping for someone better but so far one has not rode up on their horse dismounted, stomped into the Solon and shouted "I'm Home Bitches"

 

[cleaver]

In addition to Trumpa being a thoroughly repugnant individual, absent any redeeming characteristics he he represents the political far right. The majority of US citizens will never support an extremist.

except... that ummmm... anomaly in 2016?

yes. there is plenty on the detractor plate,
but...?

details

 

[Luk]

Hillary wasn't polarizing?

That is the lamest and weakest response you could have made, turd.

 

[Que]

without being glib, your position on these matters seems crystal clear.
there is antithesis - right/wrong - good/evil? - certainly a polar universe...

i'm not convinced.
a society needs compromise if society is the beneficiary of any policy.

but that is a far different discussion.

are you saying that trump is negligible
thus, any exercise to make him more palatable is moot?

he is the straw man in your construct...
but certainly not a passive one?

Our "society" writ large is merely a collection of families choosing neighborhoods in towns that pool resources in counties that are overseen by States that have chosen, voluntarily to ally themselves in to a compact of sovereign States for limited, mutually beneficial purposes.

Federalism and allowing every function of government to be decided at and administered by the smallest entity closest to the problem that can, as a matter of practicality administer whatever limited oversight, administration, enforcement, public works, or distribution that the governed decide they on that smallest, local level want.

There is one and only one reason that we even have discussions at the national level or even care who the president . That is because the now misnamed Federal Government can deficit spend. Something that they can only do at the level they do now is because we have fiat currency. These are solvable problems.

Trump is merely the lightening rod. The spittle-flecked convective hurled at Trump from the left is no different than what's happened with every Republican president in recent memory.

 

[bellisarius]

cleaver, there is NO ONE in the democrat field of candidates capable of beating Trump today, no one.

HOWEVER;

Trump is perfectly capable of beating himself. I swear at times the man is his own worst enemy.

The 2020 election is Trumps to lose, not for any democrat to win.

 

[Que]

LOL....He didn't say either of those things.

That is largely the problem. Each side erects strawmen to vilify using Edited soundbites, out of context quotes, mischaracterizations, and outright, fabricated quotes, handily distributed in memes to the easily persuadable.

HRC campaigned against a caricature of not only her opponent, but also anyone that had the unmitigated temerity to not support arguably the least personable and most corrupt POTUS candidate in US history.

Appears that they are going to reprise that stategery.

 

[Luk]

cleaver, there is NO ONE in the democrat field of candidates capable of beating Trump today, no one.

HOWEVER;

Trump is perfectly capable of beating himself. I swear at times the man is his own worst enemy.

The 2020 election is Trumps to lose, not for any democrat to win.

He's getting pummeled in red states, Ishtard. I know that all Dems will vote for WHOEVER the Dem nominee is just to get the traitor out of the white house. unpatriotic Americans like yourself will certainly vote for his sorry ass.

 

[Hal9000_]

That is the lamest and weakest response you could have made, turd.

Just for you, Lukatmydik

 

[Luk]

Just for you, Lukatmydik

That's like 45 saying, "Nany Pelosi, I call her 'Nancy'"

 

[Ann_Tagonist]

Just for you, Lukatmydik

That guy is so disgustipating.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

"trumpism is the republican party."

Wrong.

Republicans by themselves did NOT put Trump in office in 2016 and by ourselves will not in 2020.

THAT honor lies with the great number of rank and file Democrats that realized their party Is fucking crackers.

They voted for the type of country that they wanted to live in.

The big fear on the Democratic/Liberal/Socialist side is that they will do it again!

We are hoping for someone better but so far one has not rode up on their horse dismounted, stomped into the Solon and shouted "I'm Home Bitches"

Rank and file Ds voted for Clinton. They wouldn't even vote for Bernie. Trump was elected by R's and independents tired of politician speak who made the mistake of thinking the Fox was authentic news.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

except... that ummmm... anomaly in 2016?

yes. there is plenty on the detractor plate,
but...?

details

2016 was an anomaly. Trump is nowhere near the political center of the US. He and his entire administration don't even try to appear as if they represent the majority.

 

[BotanyBoy]

unpatriotic Americans like yourself will certainly vote for his sorry ass.

Says the open borders ethno-socialist....
https://media1.tenor.com/images/914b5c3939da2869e8bf1b1f4f433bd2/tenor.gif?itemid=5444496

 

[Luk]

SpazBot2K with unfounded bullshit. This is why no one believes a word you say.

 

[BotanyBoy]

SpazBot2K with unfounded bullshit. This is why no one believes a word you say.

You mean you're not woke and hate Mexicans because of their skin color???

Luk is a deplorable!!!

Would have never guessed.