Actions speak louder than words.

[FuckFantasy]

Lily -

I hesitated to reply to this thread, because I'm not close to you, and I don't normally give scads of advice to strangers online. However, I like you. More importantly, I've spent the past thirty minutes reading every post on this thread. I'm mightily impressed by some of the comments made thus far. FM, especially, has brought up some amazingly solid points and given you plenty of sound advice. (Are you sure you're a nurse and not a therapist, FM? If you ever wanted to change careers, I have a feeling you'd excel in the world of psychology.) I'd like to say right now that I'm co-signing my name to much of what's been said.

I'm working towards becoming a psychologist myself, and I've been trying to imagine what I would say to you if you were my patient. If you were sitting across from me in my office, and you'd just vented all of this information to me, how would I respond? Without seeing and hearing you, and without being able to ask you a few questions throughout the session, I think I would start by summarizing what you've told me:

- Your fell down the stairs while pregnant, and your husband yelled at you to get up and go to work.
- When you sought medical attention, he chastised you, even when you cited breathing problems.
- He calls you paranoid when you're in physical pain. He says you overreact when you're emotionally distraught. He makes passive-aggressive jabs at you for not having a job, then he gets upset when you leave for work. He fails to speak kindly to you except sporadically.
- You tell him you're having dreams in which you die, every single night, and he doesn't seem to be more than mildly concerned at best.
- You break down crying regularly and he walks away from you each time, rather than embracing you or trying to ask why you're so upset.
- When you were in the hospital, he did not stay at your side, take care of your son, or keep any of his promises to tend to the house.
- You've mentioned several times that you're scared of talking to him, of getting therapy, or of him finding out how you really feel.
- A family friend and social worker contacted your mother asking if you're in danger, without you so much as reaching out for help.

Yet you hesitate to say that you're being abused?

Lily, abuse doesn't have to be physical in order to be serious. The deepest scars are those someone inflicts upon us emotionally. You know this, sweetheart. You're intelligent and self-aware. You know, mostly subconsciously, that you're drowning in your current situation. Hence the dreams. Hence the crying. Hence the fear.

You, my love, are free falling into a deep depression. Post-partum is only a small part of the picture. Your husband is mentally and verbally abusive. Neglect is a major form of abuse. He’s neglecting you, Lily. He is the breadwinner, and nothing more. He doesn’t treat you with respect, concern, or care, not when it counts. When you have needed him most, he has failed you. And at the end of the day, he’s made you believe that his inability to give a fuck is your fault. That’s a textbook abuser. I’m not saying he’s doing this consciously, that he’s plotting to make you feel this way. Many people have a hard time acknowledging that someone is abusing them, because they can’t imagine the person they love sitting there and consciously deciding to be hurtful. We can’t see someone who claims they love us trying to harm us in any way. I have no doubt in my mind that your husband loves you and the two beautiful children you’ve created.

The problem is that he loves himself more.

Any man that wouldn’t run to his pregnant wife’s side and rush her to the ER after she fell isn’t a man at all. How he behaved in that situation alone is appalling. Then he follows it up by letting the house go to hell while you’re birthing his child. Your son was with his grandmother, and you were in the hospital, but he was too busy to do anything productive? I’m sorry, but no. No. The time to act like a bachelor is OVER. If he wanted time to himself, he shouldn’t have gotten married and become a father. Once you’ve said your vows, once you’ve become a parent, your life is no longer your own. Bachelorhood and playtime go out the window once you make a commitment like that. There is zero excuse for that kind of behavior. I don’t care how busy he was at work. He wasn’t with his son, and you were off having a c-section, not vacationing in the Hamptons. That was his chance to step up and do his part, and he blew it.

The moodiness and the refusal to take your feelings seriously is the cornerstone of passive-aggressive abuse. He thrives on your low self-esteem, and the fact that you willingly make excuses for his treatment of you and your children. He knows that if he throws you a bone occasionally, you’ll perk up, and you won’t be able to say that he’s never nice to you. He gives you ten percent, so you can’t claim he’s not giving you one hundred. It’s selfish and it’s bound to drive anyone to the brink of tears and despair.

I want to talk to you about isolation. I want you to know that the typical abuser will keep people cut off from the rest of the world as much as possible. As someone else said, this is about power and control, and it stems from his own insecurity. That car hasn’t been fixed in a year. You can’t go to work without panicking that the kids will upset him. That worry you have, about being gone too long, is ruining your ability to function properly and earn extra money. He’s put that feeling there, directly and indirectly. He wants you to be dependent on him, not because he wants to be an old school dad, but because it boosts his self-esteem to watch yours plummet. That way he can continue to make jabs at you and eventually convince you that it’s all in your head. Then, when you get upset enough to be bothered with, he can slap on an ‘I Love You’ band-aid and repeat the whole process over again. It's a cycle that won't end on its own. You didn't create this problem, but you do have the power to stop it.

The bottom line: Love takes work. An intimate relationship cannot survive without effort and empathy. Your husband is not providing either of those things for you. At best, any problems in your marriage are only fifty percent your fault, and that’s only if the other person is actually TRYING. You are not the problem. You. Are not. The problem. You need to believe that, Lily. And you need to believe that things are going to get better because that’s what your children need from you. You are a wonderful mother. You are going to come through for your son and daughter by getting yourself the help necessary to turn your life back around – whether your husband wants to actively participate or not.

Advice:

1. Get therapy, and get it immediately. There are therapists out there who will see you on a sliding scale. There are even some who will do pro bonno work. I suggest calling a woman’s shelter, looking in the phone book, AND doing a search online. There might be a non-profit agency in your area that would be willing to work with you. You won’t know until you try. Or, if you can get the courage, ask your social worker friend for advice. You don’t have to say it’s for marital issues. Tell them it’s for the dreams and anxiety.

2. Keep what goes on in therapy completely private. It is no one’s business what you talk about during that hour of time. Therapy is safe, private, and judgment-free. Do not tell your husband what you and your counselor go over. If he asks, you simply say: “My therapist told me it would be best not to discuss our sessions with anyone.” That’s it. You do not owe him any explanation beyond that. If he gets upset, it has nothing to do with you. Nothing. His anger is his own, and how he acts on those emotions is fully on HIM.

3. Ask yourself this question: What would it mean if you were being abused? What would it say about you if you were in an abusive marriage? You don’t have to answer on here if you don’t want to. But really take the time to explore that thought. If you want to discuss it more, you can write on here, or PM me.

4. See what you can do about getting your car fixed. Ask your mother for help, ask a friend, ask a neighbor. You do not have to rely on him to get your vehicle up and running. You can’t – he’s already demonstrated that he’s not concerned. Take matters into your own hands, even if it seems impossible. Just give it a try. You never know who might be willing to do you a favor.

5. Start keeping a dream journal. I know you’re a mom and you’ve got a whole household to run. You don’t have to write an essay after each nightmare. Just jot down a few notes: What happened, who was in the dream, how you felt, how you died, etc. Bullet points. Do it every morning. Then start looking for patterns. Take it to your therapist, and don’t be shy about it. They’ll be grateful that you’ve already done your homework, and they’ll probably encourage you to do more. Engaging in an activity like this is key to being emotionally intelligent and strong, as well as proactive and self-aware.

6. Also, try, try, try to relax before bed. Do ten minutes of deep breathing, take a bath or warm shower, read a book, write in a journal, light a candle and sit quietly. Do not avoid sleep. A lack of sleep will make you, like anyone else, incredibly cranky. A long period of sleep deprivation can lead to illness, and it can throw your hormones even further out of whack. Most importantly, your emotions aren’t as easily in check when you’re feeling like a zombie. Get as much rest as you can.

I know this was lengthy. If you ever want to talk one-on-one, PM me. Take care of yourself. You deserve nothing but the best, doll. Never be afraid to go with your gut and put yourself first.

 

[fuckmeat]

Very well said FF.

 

[zpitt27]

For what it's worth, Lily, I agree that you should seek out a counselor to get the help you're looking for. From what I've read, and I apologize if any of it sounds harsh, he seems like the kind of person that tries as hard as possible to ignore anything that doesn't fit in with some kind of ideal life he's created in his mind.

If he's not mature enough to check on you when you fell, there's no way in hell he's mature enough to deal with counseling.

 

[Mephistophelily]

I saw a counselor tonight.
She basically said everything everyone else has said.

I ended up crying in the car for a good half hour after the counselor. That in person blunt declaration hurt. I'm glad mom took me, but upset that I made her cry too. We ended up having another little talk-and-listen together there for about an hour... Mom said that mister was reminding her of my dad in a lot of ways, and that she was sorry that dad distorted my ideas of love and a good family... That if I wanted things to be better, we both had to try- not just me, not just him. If I wanted to leave for awhile though, she was resetting my old room to hold the three of us.

I talked to him when I got home, not telling him everything, but that we really needed to talk; that we needed to try and fix things together. He said he had no idea I felt this way. That he knew he had trouble keeping his word and needed help to fix that. When I confessed that if things didn't improve, if we can't get by this, the kids and I would be going, he just stared at me. It was like I slapped him or something. He said that he didn't want that to happen at all, and would try his hardest to do better. When I brought up the stairs and the hospital though, he didn't have anything to say.

I'm hoping I can trust him, but a promise to keep his word about keeping promises seems... I dunno, hard to swallow. He said between his lack of sleep, work stress, and other factors, he hadn't meant to do what he's done. What surprised me, though, was that he didn't seem as effected as I thought he would be. His eyes reddened up, but his voice didn't change at all. I was sitting here sobbing about it, and he barely changed, even while saying how much I meaned to him and that the kids were his world.

I'm still taking it hesitantly. Right now, I have an insane headache and that knot in my stomach is still leaving me ill, but in a way I also feel a bit better. I just know that if anything, ANYTHING seems off again, I'm calling mom and going. I gave him warning. If he ignores this, knowing that someone has flat off said that he's on a bad path, it will tell me he really doesn't care... and I'm not going to stay.

 

[SweetErika]

I saw a counselor tonight.
She basically said everything everyone else has said.

I ended up crying in the car for a good half hour after the counselor. That in person blunt declaration hurt. I'm glad mom took me, but upset that I made her cry too. We ended up having another little talk-and-listen together there for about an hour... Mom said that mister was reminding her of my dad in a lot of ways, and that she was sorry that dad distorted my ideas of love and a good family... That if I wanted things to be better, we both had to try- not just me, not just him. If I wanted to leave for awhile though, she was resetting my old room to hold the three of us.

Good deal. I'm so proud of you for going and being brave enough to share with a new person! I hope you feel relief in getting on a healthier path, having your mom's support and somewhere to escape to.

When I confessed that if things didn't improve, if we can't get by this, the kids and I would be going, he just stared at me. It was like I slapped him or something. He said that he didn't want that to happen at all, and would try his hardest to do better. When I brought up the stairs and the hospital though, he didn't have anything to say.

That's very interesting, and it should tell you a whole lot. I find it bizarre and downright scary that he didn't apologize profusely for the stairs incident. That tells me he probably still doesn't see that he did anything wrong or feel any remorse, even after you told him how hurt you were. Does he have sociopathic tendencies, by any chance? I hope you'll tell your therapist about this and get her take on it.

I'm hoping I can trust him, but a promise to keep his word about keeping promises seems... I dunno, hard to swallow. He said between his lack of sleep, work stress, and other factors, he hadn't meant to do what he's done. What surprised me, though, was that he didn't seem as effected as I thought he would be. His eyes reddened up, but his voice didn't change at all. I was sitting here sobbing about it, and he barely changed, even while saying how much I meaned to him and that the kids were his world.

It doesn't seem wise to trust him at all at this point. Let his actions over a long period of time speak for themselves if you don't get out sooner. He may change for a bit to keep you on the hook, but his past actions don't make fundamental change look encouraging at all.

Again, his reaction is weird and terrifying, at least to me. Be very, very careful, OK?

I'm still taking it hesitantly. Right now, I have an insane headache and that knot in my stomach is still leaving me ill, but in a way I also feel a bit better. I just know that if anything, ANYTHING seems off again, I'm calling mom and going. I gave him warning. If he ignores this, knowing that someone has flat off said that he's on a bad path, it will tell me he really doesn't care... and I'm not going to stay.

That sounds like a healthy plan that you can stick to.

 

[fuckmeat]

Good deal. I'm so proud of you for going and being brave enough to share with a new person! I hope you feel relief in getting on a healthier path, having your mom's support and somewhere to escape to.

That's very interesting, and it should tell you a whole lot. I find it bizarre and downright scary that he didn't apologize profusely for the stairs incident. That tells me he probably still doesn't see that he did anything wrong or feel any remorse, even after you told him how hurt you were. Does he have sociopathic tendencies, by any chance? I hope you'll tell your therapist about this and get her take on it.


It doesn't seem wise to trust him at all at this point. Let his actions over a long period of time speak for themselves if you don't get out sooner. He may change for a bit to keep you on the hook, but his past actions don't make fundamental change look encouraging at all.

Again, his reaction is weird and terrifying, at least to me. Be very, very careful, OK?

That sounds like a healthy plan that you can stick to.

What she said.

And for what it's worth, I'm very proud of you too. Now you just have to stick to your guns and go through with moving to your mom's if things don't change. When you married he promised to love, honour and protect you - or something similar. Until he's upholding his end of that bargain again, out of love for you rather than just fear that you'll walk, you guys don't really have a marriage in the long term. I'm sure you can see that, it's getting through to your man just how much he's failed you in the past that will be tricky.

 

[coastal-boy]

Your new choices are a step in the right direction. Even though it resulted in extreme emotional turmoil for you, it has to feel better knowing that you are no longer just pretending everything is OK. Sometimes we need to really break things into simple, managable pieces. Whatever path you choose...this will not resolve itself quickly. This thread is a perfect example of why I respect this Forum

 

[SweetErika]

We haven't heard from you in a bit, M. How's everything going for you?

 

[old_scratch]

If you fell down the stairs and he did not come to your aid, plain and simple, you need out of the relationship. If you cannot depend on your husband in a crisis, then you don’t have a marriage: you’re just cooking for some guy.

You have two kids, and both you and “your kids” deserve better. If he can’t treat you any better than what you described, then what kind of role-model can he be for your children.

As far as counseling goes? Counseling isn’t going to help much if you are the only one in counseling. He is the one who need counseling.

If he can’t get his act together, then cut him loose and move on with your life. Hopefully, your parents will/can help you until you can get on your feet.

 

[MaleNC]

We haven't heard from you in a bit, M. How's everything going for you?

M.. My heart goes out to you and I hope that this note finds you doing what's best for YOU and those kids. I would hope that you're continuing your sessions with the counselor and looking out for self because without their mother being ok both mentally and physically there is no way that you can look after them as well as you would like to. I very thankful that you at least have your own mother there for support.

We're praying for you and your children.

 

[EmeraldKitten]

I don't know what exactly, is prompting me to reply, other than the fact my mom was verbally abused for 17 years.. my stepdad has been medicated for 3 years now, and wow, they actually like each other!
My boyfriends mom was in an abusive relationship for 31 years.. verbal, mental, physical, you name it. He was also abusive to their children (my boyfriend included.) They are now seperated, but he still tries to control her from afar. There are a lot of things I'd like to do to him, and none of them are nice.
I hope to God that your husband isn't mentally abusive to the kids.. that right there is a first class ticket to hell. And sometimes I think that is worse than getting hit. Plus there's the fact that your kids are going to grow up watching him treat you like that... and we all know we don't want that to happen. (My boyfriend has a little more of his worthless dad in him than I'd prefer. But I'm working on getting that out of there. )

When you're in the position, its hard to see the truth.. everyone knows that.
I pray that you have the strength to do what it is you need to do.. be it seeing a therapist, going with your husband to the therapist, or whatever the case may be. But he needs to know you're serious.
If he can't see that you're really hurting, and that you want to give it a go, trying to make it work... honey, all I have to say is, *Sometimes you have to love yourself enough to walk away.*
It may be the hardest thing you do.. but you deserve it. You deserve to be loved and respected and cherished.
You are worth it. Please take care of yourself.
Good luck with everything!

 

[Mephistophelily]

I'm trying to find a different counselor, but the one I had seen left me so upset that I'm afraid to. By the end of it, I felt like such an idiot -not only because of the downward tone she used and her comments toward me, but because she got upset with me for misunderstanding her payment methods. The way she went off on me about that made me feel like she didnt give a shit on what I was saying; she just wanted her money, and since I was too stupid to bring cash, she didn't want to talk to me anymore.

My friend is trying to help me find someone better.

As for he and I...
We've been having on/off days. He still seems oblivious to there being an issue, but he tries to do helpful things (but still rubs it in my face after doing it). I've been trying to ignore everything to try and get through the holidays. I don't want our/my problems to ruin things for the kids. His selfish side, thugh, has kicked up more. He told me he'd try to fix my car yet again, then used the money to fix his guitar. When he got it home, I was doing dishes and making dinner, the baby in her bouncer. She spotted him and shrieked to be picked up, but he sat on the floor out of her view and started playing his guitar, turning up the amp as she started sobbing. When she finally overpowered the guitar, he turned it off and acted like her savior for getting her. The poor thing was sniffling and whimpering for an hour. She -adores- him, and he doesn't see it.

I was online looking for presents and asked him on a video game sale I found. "I only like three of those. Don't get that for me." "No, I meant the boys..." "Oh. Well, get me that one and get them whatever. I want that one." And bluntly pointing out things he wants for Christmas at stores- picking them up, bringing them over and tapping the box right in front of my face. "I want this. If anyone asks or if you want to know, I want this. This one. The $30 one." You're nearly 30. I'd expect this from our 3 year old. Not you...

I just want this year to end.

 

[old_scratch]

I'm trying to find a different counselor, but the one I had seen left me so upset that I'm afraid to. By the end of it, I felt like such an idiot -not only because of the downward tone she used and her comments toward me, but because she got upset with me for misunderstanding her payment methods. The way she went off on me about that made me feel like she didnt give a shit on what I was saying; she just wanted her money, and since I was too stupid to bring cash, she didn't want to talk to me anymore.

My friend is trying to help me find someone better.

As for he and I...
We've been having on/off days. He still seems oblivious to there being an issue, but he tries to do helpful things (but still rubs it in my face after doing it). I've been trying to ignore everything to try and get through the holidays. I don't want our/my problems to ruin things for the kids. His selfish side, thugh, has kicked up more. He told me he'd try to fix my car yet again, then used the money to fix his guitar. When he got it home, I was doing dishes and making dinner, the baby in her bouncer. She spotted him and shrieked to be picked up, but he sat on the floor out of her view and started playing his guitar, turning up the amp as she started sobbing. When she finally overpowered the guitar, he turned it off and acted like her savior for getting her. The poor thing was sniffling and whimpering for an hour. She -adores- him, and he doesn't see it.

I was online looking for presents and asked him on a video game sale I found. "I only like three of those. Don't get that for me." "No, I meant the boys..." "Oh. Well, get me that one and get them whatever. I want that one." And bluntly pointing out things he wants for Christmas at stores- picking them up, bringing them over and tapping the box right in front of my face. "I want this. If anyone asks or if you want to know, I want this. This one. The $30 one." You're nearly 30. I'd expect this from our 3 year old. Not you...

I just want this year to end.

Like many people today, most counselors are there for the money, and from what I have seen, some counselors have more emotional issues than their patients. Often psychologists get a degree in psychology trying to vanquish their own demons, (and fail), then stay in the business because it is easier than working.

Is there a reason you can’t move back with your parents, at least temporally? It sounds like both of you need to separate for a while until both of you get your head on straight. No marriage fails because of only one person; it takes two to make a marriage, and it takes two to break the marriage.

I’m not trying to be mean or harsh with your, but I do have a question.

You said that your daughter cried for an hour while your husband played his guitar? Why didn’t “you” go pick her up?

Not trying to be mean, but maybe both you and your husband need to do some soul-searching, and decide what you want to do with the rest of your life.

 

[Mephistophelily]

She wasn't crying for an hour while he played. He played for about 20 minutes; I started to get her and he snapped at me. She cried still after he picked her up for an hour, little sniffles and whines.

I'm hesitant to go to my parents' because dad used to be worse than hubby; he was an alcoholic. I don't want to see him yelling at Mister for something he did himself, and I'm also afraid dad will start it up with the kids too.

I realize I'm probably coming off stupid with all this. Even dumber for posting it here. This is a board about sex and stuff, not someone's marriage issues.

 

[SweetErika]

I'm trying to find a different counselor, but the one I had seen left me so upset that I'm afraid to. By the end of it, I felt like such an idiot -not only because of the downward tone she used and her comments toward me, but because she got upset with me for misunderstanding her payment methods. The way she went off on me about that made me feel like she didnt give a shit on what I was saying; she just wanted her money, and since I was too stupid to bring cash, she didn't want to talk to me anymore.

That's awful! I'm sorry you had such a bad experience, and thrilled you're willing to try someone else. Have you thought about at least getting a referral from a domestic abuse resource center/local hotline? Usually they really know their stuff, and they can probably help you find someone you can really afford.

As for he and I...
We've been having on/off days. He still seems oblivious to there being an issue, but he tries to do helpful things (but still rubs it in my face after doing it). I've been trying to ignore everything to try and get through the holidays. I don't want our/my problems to ruin things for the kids. His selfish side, thugh, has kicked up more. He told me he'd try to fix my car yet again, then used the money to fix his guitar.

I'm sorry, but all I can think is, 'What a loser!'

Who does that?! What kind of a guy would take money for something necessary like fixing a car, and spend it on a luxury like a guitar?

When he got it home, I was doing dishes and making dinner, the baby in her bouncer. She spotted him and shrieked to be picked up, but he sat on the floor out of her view and started playing his guitar, turning up the amp as she started sobbing. When she finally overpowered the guitar, he turned it off and acted like her savior for getting her. The poor thing was sniffling and whimpering for an hour. She -adores- him, and he doesn't see it.

Oh, honey, that's just heartbreaking!

I totally get this because I often find myself telling my husband what our son wants. He doesn't get to spend as much time with him, so he simply doesn't have the same instinct or read on the baby language. But once he knows, he does his best to fulfill the need for attention or affection or whatever. You are so much stronger than I am - I think I'd just die or commit murder if he ignored/tortured our kid like that.

I was online looking for presents and asked him on a video game sale I found. "I only like three of those. Don't get that for me." "No, I meant the boys..." "Oh. Well, get me that one and get them whatever. I want that one." And bluntly pointing out things he wants for Christmas at stores- picking them up, bringing them over and tapping the box right in front of my face. "I want this. If anyone asks or if you want to know, I want this. This one. The $30 one." You're nearly 30. I'd expect this from our 3 year old. Not you...

I just want this year to end.

Start looking for some lumps of coal. Or how about a stocking full of dirty diapers?

Seriously, that's what he deserves - nothing or shit.

 

[old_scratch]

She wasn't crying for an hour while he played. He played for about 20 minutes; I started to get her and he snapped at me. She cried still after he picked her up for an hour, little sniffles and whines.

I'm hesitant to go to my parents' because dad used to be worse than hubby; he was an alcoholic. I don't want to see him yelling at Mister for something he did himself, and I'm also afraid dad will start it up with the kids too.

I realize I'm probably coming off stupid with all this. Even dumber for posting it here. This is a board about sex and stuff, not someone's marriage issues.

You are not coming off as stupid, you just sound like a young woman whose life has suddenly changed after the baby arrived. And it doesn’t sound like you or your husband is coping well with this change.

“Both” of you need to take a step back and take a hard look at what life is for you now. Both of you have a lot more responsibility than you had before, and neither of you have the freedom you had before. And in today’s economy, I can imagine money is a little short too, which just adds to the stress.

If you end the marriage and get a divorce, you will be a single mother, and probably lonely, your daughter won’t have a full time father, and your husband will be strapped with child support. Divorce is never a good option.

My point is: both of you need to take a hard look at what life is for you now, and together, decide what you are going to do. Life for neither you nor your husband will ever go back to what is was.

Not trying to be harsh, just suggesting that you take a look at the reality of your life as it is now.

 

[SweetErika]

You are not coming off as stupid, you just sound like a young woman whose life has suddenly changed after the baby arrived. And it doesn’t sound like you or your husband is coping well with this change.

“Both” of you need to take a step back and take a hard look at what life is for you now. Both of you have a lot more responsibility than you had before, and neither of you have the freedom you had before. And in today’s economy, I can imagine money is a little short too, which just adds to the stress.

Have you actually read the thread? They already had a kid before this most recent arrival. MY marriage is saddled with the growing pains of adding a baby into the mix. M's marriage is destroyed due to abuse, rather than a new baby.

If you end the marriage and get a divorce, you will be a single mother, and probably lonely, your daughter won’t have a full time father, and your husband will be strapped with child support. Divorce is never a good option.

Divorce is a FAR better option than abuse for her. It's the ONLY option for the wellbeing of the children.

I'm sorry, but I just can't believe anyone in their right mind would suggest staying in an abusive relationship because they might be lonely, have to deal with being a single parent, or the abuser will have to pay child support.

The reality is that M can find someone better if she gets herself healthy emotionally, and she certainly deserves to. Even so, being on her own is so much better than constantly being treated like crap and going crazy because of it.

Being a single parent is incredibly hard, but it's not anywhere near as hard as having an unsupportive, abusive spouse weighing you down. And growing up with one healthy parent is always preferable to being raised in a dysfunctional relationship with two unhealthy, unhappy parents. Her kids deserve to see at least one of their parents happy, healthy and modeling good relationships.

Her husband is a selfish prick. Maybe being forced to pay child support will teach him a little maturity and responsibility. Probably not, but M absolutely shouldn't feel bad for him or guilty for having him provide for his kids.

 

[SweetErika]

I'm hesitant to go to my parents' because dad used to be worse than hubby; he was an alcoholic. I don't want to see him yelling at Mister for something he did himself, and I'm also afraid dad will start it up with the kids too.

It sounds like you have good instincts on that. Can you use it as a place for a very temporary emergency-type stay, then figure out somewhere else you can go?

I'm not sure what's available there, but here there are lots of resources for single moms who are escaping abuse. Like the YWCA and other organizations have some beautiful apartments that families can use while they're finding footing. Maybe something like that is worth looking into and filing away just in case?

I realize I'm probably coming off stupid with all this. Even dumber for posting it here. This is a board about sex and stuff, not someone's marriage issues.

No, you're not coming off as stupid at all! Don't you dare think that, or that this isn't a valid place to turn for support. We may have an enjoyment of sexuality in common, but you know HT is much more than a porn or superficial advice board. If you're benefiting from venting or getting ideas or whatever, then you're in the right place.

Don't listen to people who blame you or try to make you feel bad for taking the best steps for yourself and your kids. They're idiots, plain and simple.

 

[coastal-boy]

This is a board about sex and stuff, not someone's marriage issues.

I see this board as a source of brutal honesty, from people with no vested interest. This can be good or it can be bad. It is your job to sort through that and take what applies or leave what doesn't. I've made 3 comments tonight...one about a broken arm...one on talking to people...and this one.

 

[fuckmeat]

If you fell down the stairs and he did not come to your aid, plain and simple, you need out of the relationship. If you cannot depend on your husband in a crisis, then you don’t have a marriage: you’re just cooking for some guy.

This comment spoke to me. The absolute bare minimum your husband should be expected to do is provide for you and his kids properly but even there, he is failing. No grown man should be putting his guitar before your car. No grown man should be solely concerned with his own Christmas gifts. Christmas should be about the kids in a family. He should take pride and pleasure in selecting and planning treats for them. No loving father is totally disinterested in what presents to get his kids. He's actually too selfish and lazy even to spend two whole seconds deciding what computer game his son would most like. I'm sorry but I simply don't think I've ever heard of apathy like it. And you're too downtrodden to tell him that you'll give his gifts some thought once he's pulled his head out of his ass long enough to take some interest in what the kids are getting. I can just imagine how it'll go if you wave stuff in his face and say 'that's what I want.' The guy is a fucking child and a brat to boot.

I'm trying to find a different counselor, but the one I had seen left me so upset that I'm afraid to. By the end of it, I felt like such an idiot -not only because of the downward tone she used and her comments toward me, but because she got upset with me for misunderstanding her payment methods. The way she went off on me about that made me feel like she didnt give a shit on what I was saying; she just wanted her money, and since I was too stupid to bring cash, she didn't want to talk to me anymore.

My friend is trying to help me find someone better.

Can your friend help you find somewhere to go with the kids instead of your parents'? Maybe you can borrow enough from your folks to get a small apartment or something and then get government support? There must be somewhere else you can go. To leave your husband only to go back to the abusive father who made him seem like a saint in comparison would be very very unhealthy for you.

I suggest you go to a charity for abused women and be very candid about the psychological abuse, the emotional neglect of you and your kids, the financial control and selfishness, the whole nine yards. I know it's humiliating but these charity run places have to prioritise according to risk. In addition, make it abundantly clear why you feel that going home to your parents is simply not an option. Ask yourself honestly how your husband would react if you actually left him. If you feel that leaving him would put you at risk of assault or worse, you need to make that clear as well. Your husband is a man who has gotten his own way for a very long time and it concerns me that if you did ever pack your bags, he'd react very badly. He may not have raised a hand to you yet but sadly, that does not mean that you are at no risk. Also, look into getting a lawyer, a charity will maybe know someone who does some pro bono or whatever. Ask. If and when you do leave things could get ugly and you will need someone in your corner. Give some thought to any joint accounts or savings you may have. I don't know the law in America but if you are caring for his kids you should be able to take a large chunk of whatever joint money you have to ensure their wellbeing. You might not see half the value of the house or whatever if he puts up a fight in the divorce courts so make sure you don't leave that house without what you consider to be a fair share of your joint wealth. He might think every penny that comes into that house is 'his' money but the law differs.

As for he and I...
We've been having on/off days. He still seems oblivious to there being an issue, but he tries to do helpful things (but still rubs it in my face after doing it). I've been trying to ignore everything to try and get through the holidays. I don't want our/my problems to ruin things for the kids. His selfish side, thugh, has kicked up more. He told me he'd try to fix my car yet again, then used the money to fix his guitar. When he got it home, I was doing dishes and making dinner, the baby in her bouncer. She spotted him and shrieked to be picked up, but he sat on the floor out of her view and started playing his guitar, turning up the amp as she started sobbing. When she finally overpowered the guitar, he turned it off and acted like her savior for getting her. The poor thing was sniffling and whimpering for an hour. She -adores- him, and he doesn't see it.

I was online looking for presents and asked him on a video game sale I found. "I only like three of those. Don't get that for me." "No, I meant the boys..." "Oh. Well, get me that one and get them whatever. I want that one." And bluntly pointing out things he wants for Christmas at stores- picking them up, bringing them over and tapping the box right in front of my face. "I want this. If anyone asks or if you want to know, I want this. This one. The $30 one." You're nearly 30. I'd expect this from our 3 year old. Not you...

I just want this year to end.

So already he is not trying to mend his ways. He doesn't think you have the balls to leave him. He's too complacent and sadly, I seriously doubt you'll ever get through to this man just how selfish and neglectful he is. On paper, from your posts, your marriage to this man just seems irretrievable and untenable. You will destroy yourself trying to make him see the error of his ways.

My advice would be to get out. Maybe not this side of Christmas but seriously, plan your escape route and get out. Do it for yourself and your kids. Do not let pity for him move you one iota because his concern for you is basically non-existent. Don't place hope in any more false promises from him and don't listen to any apologies or protestations of love. This man appears to be wholly incapable of love. Any man who fails to love his own kids is so fundamentally damaged in some way that unless he sees how damaging it is to his kids and unless he wants psychiatric help and to change for the better with every fibre of his being nothing will change.

Get out.

Once you are established independently if he has genuine remorse and if he wants counselling and to change who he is for the better, then you can give him the opportunity to prove himself through actions. If he spends plenty of quality time with the kids, maybe go on a date with him or something.

I don't think it will happen. My gut feeling is that he'll turn nasty, make you the bad guy in his mind and then get obnoxious about legal/financial matters and contact with the children. I think this because he's basically a spoiled kid and spoiled kids raise hell when they don't get their way.

I hope he proves me wrong.

I hope you have the guts to walk out and give him the opportunity to prove me wrong.

And Lily, you are a great deal stronger and more capable than you can possibly believe you are at this low point in your life, after the abuse you've had from your father and husband. You absolutely can do this. Loving mothers are warriors, every last one of 'em. Your husband may not be physically harming your kids but the emotional/psychological damage of them loving him so much and constantly being disappointed? I have been there with my father and I suspect you have been there with yours. You do not want that for your children. Kids are incredibly intuitive, even the small ones. Your son will already know in his heart that you are deeply unhappy, because nobody's that good an actress. If you can't get out for your own sake, get out for theirs. Let your passionate, bottomless love for them fuel your total determination to give them a secure home with an unconditionally loving parent. Getting your independence will go a very long way to restoring some of the self-esteem that the men in your life have corroded.

Here's some stuff to dance round your kitchen to and get you in the mood.



Walk Away

Ok, maybe not that one but it leads beautifully into...

Stronger

Survivor
Goodbye Earl
I don't need a man!
Since You Been Gone
So What?
You & Your Hand
Broken Heels

You'll See



http://xb9.xanga.com/5a7b552100400238660794/z4663262.gif

 

[Eilan]

Being a single parent is incredibly hard, but it's not anywhere near as hard as having an unsupportive, abusive spouse weighing you down. And growing up with one healthy parent is always preferable to being raised in a dysfunctional relationship with two unhealthy, unhappy parents. Her kids deserve to see at least one of their parents happy, healthy and modeling good relationships.

Quoted 'cause it bears repeating.

I'm a "reconciliation baby" whose mom stayed in an abusive marriage 17 years longer than she should have "for the sake of the kids." Your kids deserve much better than that.

As Dan Savage would say, DTMFA.

 

[Noor]

I just read the whole thread. Your husband sounds very young in someways. This not keeping his word is a sign of serious disrespect. He maybe transferring his insecurity/upset from somewhere else on you because he feels you are a safe place to do it, you can't leave. Consciously or subconsciously, he is setting things up so you are not in a position to leave if you want to. By not taking your concerns seriously he doesn't have to face the reality that something is seriously wrong and he is part of it. He may want to be the sole breadwinner in an old world sense, but he is not providing well enough for your family, he may have guilt which he then turns on you.

He may not think he is being abusive, and it may not be intentional. He may not be trying to hurt you or the kids. However, his intentions are not relevant, his behavior and words are abusive, and you need to get yourself and your kids out of there. Until you change your reactions, there is no hope in hell that he will understand and change his.

In some ways emotional abuse can be worse than physical. With physical abuse you can see the bruises the scars, the reminders and so can other people. You can recognize when you have been hit.

With emotional abuse, it can be like a ticking time bomb that hides within you forever, you think it's gone or limited to one person, but something can happen later in a different relationship and you will be pulled back in. It will effect future relationships, I guess in a similar way to how you feel about your dad.

You might want to look at Gil T's thread about how to help someone get over abuse and read about how others have done it. You are not alone, and there is a way out.
You need to define what you want from your marriage, get yourself in a position to survive without him, and then tell him he can either become a compliment in you and your children's life or out.

I would seek help through an abuse hotline or shelter, they will understand the money issues and what you have been trying to do.

In the place your husband is in now, words will never be enough. I would consider moving home with your mom, seeing a counselor, and get those bad dreams to stop.

If you decide to leave, don't spend a lot of time talking about it, just leave. Call him from your mom's or shelter and tell him. The most dangerous time in an abusive relationship is when the abused tries to leave.

 

[Mephistophelily]

Its been awhile and...

-----

 

[qrayze]

.....

 

[aspiringDOM]

Reading your posts makes me rather sad. I find it sad that someone can live that way, that someone can treat someone they're married to that way, and that children have to experience a childhood like that.

Regardless of whether his actions / inactions are abuse, there's a huge problem. The problem impacts you and your children.

As for the counselor, I hope you find a good one. If you've got doubts about their priorities or actions, then you're not going to the right one for you. The whole point is to feel comfortable speaking to and listening to them. It would seem pointless to go to someone you're totaling trusting of. That being said, just because they tell you what you might not want to hear doesn't mean they're the issue.

I'll also say that as a person who deals with divorces, you're not in an uncommon situation and without his willingness to actually change (not say, promise, etc) but actually take the steps towards change, it's not going to work. I always tell people that their happiness takes a back seat to their children's, but they better not think for a second that if they're unhappy that it doesn't impact their children as well. In the end though, you have a choice, your children don't. Don't drag them through the mud and rob them of the childhood they deserve because you're afraid of doing something, be it counseling, divorce, separation, or whatever.

One last thought, the fear of the unknown in these situations usually paralyzes people. They'd rather stick with what they know than change things not knowing what will happen. There's no guarantee that a change will result in great things, but there's pretty much a guarantee that no change will result in things getting worse if the situation as it is now wasn't how things were originally (in other words, if this is a situation that has progressed over the course of years, then there's no reason to believe it will not continue it's course absent a new direction exerted by an outside force ... counseling, divorce, separation, etc).

I truly wish you the best. I hope you understand that you're not the first or last person to deal with something like this. I just hope that you do something about it that's healthy for both yourself and your children in the long run even if in the short run it's really tough. Please keep posting as I'm sure it helps you to get things off your chest. I know just typing my thoughts out helps me sort through things.