Am I really a shallow bitch?

[Yang4yin]

As I see it, there are a couple of things to consider.

1. He wasn't honest about his looks. What else isn't he being honest about?

2. Different people are attracted to different physical characteristics. If his being overweight is an issue for you, you can't help it.

 

[FurryFury]

As I see it, there are a couple of things to consider.

1. He wasn't honest about his looks. What else isn't he being honest about?

2. Different people are attracted to different physical characteristics. If his being overweight is an issue for you, you can't help it.

Well was he being dishonest though? Some people simply don't have a lot of pictures of themselves. Maybe he told her outright it's old, I've gained some weight?

I agree with number two though. One is into what one is into and usually that won't be changed. I do find people I care about become progressively more attractive to me though.

Fury

 

[lil_slave_rose]

i don't think it's fair after ONE date to decide if it's going to work or not. she has said there is chemistry between them, that they have a lot in common. i don't think He 'lied' to her about his appearance, maybe he just didn't want her to make a judgment based solely on His weight before she even got to meet him so He left out the part about being 'big', maybe she didn't ask, i don't know i just don't think it's fair to assume that he lied to her and could lying to her about other things. take it from someone who is 'fat', that's not the first thing you tell someone when talking to them for the first time.

 

[satindesire]

On a beginning note, I am -NOT- a scientist but I have read and used the knowledge perused thereof of the book "Survival of the Prettiest" to formulate this opinion. For more information, check it out.
***********************


There's a lot more than physical attraction than just simple attractiveness. A good deal of the keys of being attractive are genetic clues to what that person would give to their children, in terms of DNA. It's -WIRED- within us to seek out persons we are physically attracted to, in order to produce strong, healthy children capable of surviving.

Look at a peacock. With that tail, it's saying to females, "Look at this big tail. If I had any genetic defaults, could I grow a tail like this?!" But to a peahen, all she's thinking is that the peacock looks pretty sexy.

It's not shallow, it's simple human nature. I have a 'type'. I don't like blond men and I never will...I have never dated a blond man nor have I found any blond men especially attractive. Even Brat Pitt, who a lot of women (and to a lesser extent, men) find VERY attractive, I don't feel a lot for. Now, that probably has little or nothing to do with genetics, but the propensity to be overweight is not necessarily a 'desirable' gene to some, and not all people will be attracted to overweight men and woman. You don't have to beat yourself up about it, it's perfectly natural to be attracted to a certain KIND of person. In Example: Playboy's "Blondes" "Brunettes" and "Redheads" tangent magazines.

There is NOTHING wrong with questioning your attraction to someone. Sex is, after all, the only way to have babies, and that IS what we as human beings are programmed for. Even if you consciously don't want children, you're still feeling the same genetic codes as the rest of us!

Now, on a bit of a tangent, I do realize that the standards of beauty go through trends and have changed -GREATLY- over the last few centuries, but the desire to have strong, healthy mates with good genes have not. It's the only reason we're still here, and able to talk about this stuff right now.

 

[celebdrive]

some useless input

if you want some fun or escapism or a playmate move on. if you want a serious relationship heartstrings and all move on. the odds of chemistry on a scale whereby you can be comfortable or daring enough to take risks are remote - already this thing doesnt flow it feels forced with too much trepidation, doubt, reluctance and contingincies.

but what the hell do i know? i'm giving unsolicited advice to a complete stranger on a board where I'M a complete stranger at 3:30 in the goddamn morning without any friggin pants on.

 

[fsmepls]

Physical appearance isn't all that makes one sexy.

no but its at least 50%.

 

[the captians wench]

i don't think it's fair after ONE date to decide if it's going to work or not. she has said there is chemistry between them, that they have a lot in common. i don't think He 'lied' to her about his appearance, maybe he just didn't want her to make a judgment based solely on His weight before she even got to meet him so He left out the part about being 'big', maybe she didn't ask, i don't know i just don't think it's fair to assume that he lied to her and could lying to her about other things. take it from someone who is 'fat', that's not the first thing you tell someone when talking to them for the first time.

Maybe I'm just a weird one, or I've become very comfortable with myself because I'm pretty streight forward about my weight with people. Infact that's how I've met most of the people that I've met up with off line was from them seeing a pic of me either on these boards or floating some where else. And I'm not exactly thin either. I don't see the point in not being up front about it, it's not like a mole that I can cover up with make up or something. If some one is not attracted to me, I'd rather know before I got too attached to them.(Which doesn't take long honestly)

And yes, I've noticed the looks people give me, and they are even worse when I'm out with some one half my size which is the kind of men I tend to be attacted to. But I've also noticed I don't get half as many looks since I decided "who gives a flip" and started wearing clothes that I like and that show off my generous curves than when I hid beind baggy sweats and huge sun dresses. And I get different looks as well, from some of the same people who used to give me snub look.

When in the general public, I think, confidence is the biggest thing people look for. When I started dressing like I cared about me, I started getting cat calls again, and the only thing that changed was my style, not my size. However, one on one situations are a little different. You don't expect to sleep with any girl you hollar at down the street now do you?

 

[WriterDom]

It seems to me it would be too easy to bail once all the little annoying nonphysical aspects of this guy surface.

 

[SierraMoon]

Ok, i'm on the other end of the scale... but here are my two cents....

I met a Dominant (my ex-Master) 4 years ago... We hit it off, in every way but sexually, which he told me would be part of our commitment ceremony. Well.. the ceremony happened 2 years ago, but the sex did not.

Long story short, He is/was not attracted to me in a sexual way, and it's made me extremely bitter that I was told something for the past 4 years that was not true. (I consider omission to be a lie, as he never told me he wasn't attracted to me).

Physical appearance has never been important to me, but I realize now, after 4 years that I would have preferred someone been upfront with me from the beginning.

He and I make great friends, but play partners or lovers, no..........

*sigh*

 

[RJMasters]

In times past marriages were arranged and there was less divorce % then than there is now.

I am sure that the pressure of society had a lot to do with that back then, however I just want to point out that beauty is fleeting. How else could two old wrinkly skinned people who have shared their life together still see the most beautiful/handsome person in the world laying next to them.

 

[RJMasters]

Ok, i'm on the other end of the scale... but here are my two cents....

I met a Dominant (my ex-Master) 4 years ago... We hit it off, in every way but sexually, which he told me would be part of our commitment ceremony. Well.. the ceremony happened 2 years ago, but the sex did not.

Long story short, He is/was not attracted to me in a sexual way, and it's made me extremely bitter that I was told something for the past 4 years that was not true. (I consider omission to be a lie, as he never told me he wasn't attracted to me).

Physical appearance has never been important to me, but I realize now, after 4 years that I would have preferred someone been upfront with me from the beginning.

He and I make great friends, but play partners or lovers, no..........

*sigh*

I sorry this happened to you SM. There is wrong and then there is what happened to you. I just can't imagine someone doing something like this to another person, let alone someone who a person claims to have feelings for or care about.

It made me mad when I read it and also sad. I hope you are doing ok and have moved on from this.

 

[RJMasters]

I think there has to be enough there for my partner to be attractive IN SPITE OF an issue like weight. Why? Because people change, and things like weight go up and down quite easily. If I can put myself in your shoes for a moment, I wouldn't go forward with this guy in the hopes that I'd become attracted as his weight went down, because what if that didn't make a difference, his future efforts were unsuccessful, or he gained it back? We'd likely be doomed to a sexless relationship if I couldn't imagine getting excited by being physical with him.

There's also the D/s component, which doesn't have a lot to do with attraction for me beyond the superficial level of "Do I want to touch/be touched by this person?" I'm very attracted to some people, for instance, but I can't imagine enjoying dominating (or bottoming for, for that matter) them. That's an entirely different facet/level that we need to connect on as well for D/s to work for me. Perhaps I'd see this guy as someone I'd like to submit to as I got to know him better, but usually that feeling is there relatively early for me, from what I can tell.

What I might do is see if time and friendship create an attraction to the person he is now. No dates, no expectations, just spending time together platonically and communicating if attraction grows. I know, however, that can be very tough when one person has the attraction and/or either have hopes for more.

Personally, I need someone who's attracted to me at this weight. And at few pounds heavier, and a much lighter one (though I'm always going to have a solid build and curves). And if my limbs were to be amputated. And when I get gray and wrinkly and have more stretch marks from having a kidlet and my boobs deflate.

I also need to be with people who I'm attracted to as they are and how they could/will be (within reason - the reality is that I might not be physically attracted to someone who was terribly disfigured or something). I'm still going to want Hubby when he's old, more gray, bald, has that beer belly that runs in his family, toothless, etc. I'd want him if he didn't have limbs or his cock didn't work anymore.

My attraction transcends what he looks like, for the most part. I'm often attracted to people who aren't terribly physically attractive if the personality wasn't there. Physical attraction is necessary for me, and if it's not there, I won't proceed with a romantic relationship; it just doesn't really change based on appearance, in my experience.

The way I work doesn't make me any better or worse than the ways others do. I think you're a very perceptive, compassionate person based on your posts - you know what you want and consider peoples' feelings, which does not a shallow bitch make.

Holds up the 10.0 card. Nicely said.

 

[JMohegan]

Okay, here's the story. I prefer honest discourse...

Okay. Here you go.

First off, to answer the question in the title here, I'll note the following. In discussions about physical attractiveness at the *inception* of a relationship, I don't see a distinction between those who are shallow and those who are not. Instead, I see those who are honest and those who are failing to acknowledge the fact that they, themselves, have standards & limits when it comes to the personal appearance of a prospective mate.

Shifting now from the subject of physical attractiveness to D/s, this thread reminds me of one of RJ's, entitled Physique and Dominance. From post 54:

I don't believe that size makes a man more or less dominant, though. I believe it's the whole package - confidence, intelligence, control, integrity, attitude. And ultimately, it's not about what's on the outside. It's about what's inside. No matter what someone looks like, unless you have trust and respect, there can be no dominance or submission.

What does this have to do with a guy's weight? And why might his weight have prompted the following reaction when you first met him?

I do like this guy, but every time I think about the possibility of him dominating me, I just can't picture it. I can't put myself there, if that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense to me, and I'll tell you why.

Look at the list of character traits you consider essential to dominance.

Confidence. Integrity.

Posting a misleading photograph on his profile is an action that demonstrates a lack of confidence in himself and a lack of integrity as well.

Control. Attitude.

If the guy has let himself put on 75 extra pounds, the reasons could be: (a) medical (which you have not mentioned, so I assume it does not apply); (b) related to attitude & values (i.e., personal health just isn't all that important to him); or (c) related to issues of self-control.

I absolutely agree with your comment about trust and respect being essential in D/s. And for the reasons I just stated, I can understand why this guy is starting out from a position behind the eight ball in this regard.

The good news, though, is that he has a chance to prove himself worthy of your submission by behaving in a way that reflects self-respect, honesty, and self-discipline in the future.

 

[RJMasters]

Shifting now from the subject of physical attractiveness to D/s, this thread reminds me of one of RJ's, entitled Physique and Dominance. From post 54:

Holy crap that is old school.

Chuckles and goes gets some coffee.

 

[Hisbabydoll26]

no but its at least 50%.

50% doesn't that qualify as a failing grade?

 

[JMohegan]

Holy crap that is old school.

Chuckles and goes gets some coffee.

*grins*

It's an old thread, no doubt.

However, the quote from BeachGurl's post 54 was written in August of this year.

 

[BeachGurl2]

Well was he being dishonest though? Some people simply don't have a lot of pictures of themselves. Maybe he told her outright it's old, I've gained some weight?

I agree with number two though. One is into what one is into and usually that won't be changed. I do find people I care about become progressively more attractive to me though.

Fury

He wasn't being completely dishonest about it. He mentioned that the pics weren't real recent but he didn't add that he had gained weight since they were taken. I've found that different people view the profile terms differently. I used the term 'curvy' until it was pointed out to me on more than one occasion that people read that as being overweight and that I was what they would consider as having an 'average' sized body. So I don't always trust what they put there anyway. The pictures he had loaded looked like he was carrying around a little extra weight, maybe 30 pounds or so. So I don't really consider it as dishonest as much as the fact that he'd changed a bit since those pics were taken. And two of the pics, which were more recent, were ones that were very small and I couldn't see them any larger because I wasn't a paying member. Had I seen them, I would not have been mislead about his size as much. But that isn't his fault. So he really wasn't being dishonest. It just never came up in conversation, really.

 

[BeachGurl2]

Shifting now from the subject of physical attractiveness to D/s, this thread reminds me of one of RJ's, entitled Physique and Dominance. From post 54:

Originally Posted by BeachGurl2
I don't believe that size makes a man more or less dominant, though. I believe it's the whole package - confidence, intelligence, control, integrity, attitude. And ultimately, it's not about what's on the outside. It's about what's inside. No matter what someone looks like, unless you have trust and respect, there can be no dominance or submission.

What does this have to do with a guy's weight? And why might his weight have prompted the following reaction when you first met him?

Don't ya just love it when your own words come back to haunt you?

And I stand by my statement because it's as true today as when I originally posted it.

It makes perfect sense to me, and I'll tell you why.

Look at the list of character traits you consider essential to dominance.

Confidence. Integrity.

Posting a misleading photograph on his profile is an action that demonstrates a lack of confidence in himself and a lack of integrity as well.

Control. Attitude.

If the guy has let himself put on 75 extra pounds, the reasons could be: (a) medical (which you have not mentioned, so I assume it does not apply); (b) related to attitude & values (i.e., personal health just isn't all that important to him); or (c) related to issues of self-control.

I absolutely agree with your comment about trust and respect being essential in D/s. And for the reasons I just stated, I can understand why this guy is starting out from a position behind the eight ball in this regard.

The good news, though, is that he has a chance to prove himself worthy of your submission by behaving in a way that reflects self-respect, honesty, and self-discipline in the future.

I think that in many ways, you've hit on part of what I'm reacting to. In my mind, for one to fall under my definition of dominant, you do have to be in control of yourself first and foremost. There are things that I personally associate with dominance and when they aren't present, it does take a bit more to see if that quality is there for me. And yes, the more I think about it, the more I realize that some of my own definitions would qualify as shallow. I am intelligent and educated, therefore, it is hard for me to picture myself submitting to someone who isn't educated. By that, I don't necessarily mean some prissy piece of paper that says they have a college degree. Self-education can work, too. So I don't mean that I limit myself to someone who has a degree, but someone who is well-read, can converse in an educated manner, express opinions that are educated, etc. It's hard to respect someone you feel is inferior to you in some way. (I'm really just using education as an example here, so don't start the flames about how you can be educated without a degree. I agree with you.) I also wouldn't submit to someone who used drugs or drank excessively, no matter how much I might like him. Nor would I submit to someone who wasn't successful in his chosen profession. All of those things suggest a lack of true dominance, in my mind at least. For me, dominance isn't just about sex, it's about a persona, for lack of a better term. It's the whole man, not just one part of him.

And as you've pointed out in your last statement, he has responded to my concerns in a very positive way. He did not get upset or defensive in any way, but was very open and honest in his response to me. That has made me much more comfortable in going forward on friendly terms and seeing where things go from here.

 

[JazzManJim]

I would like to hear from anyone who has had a similar experience, if anyone has.

Hon, you like what you like.

I'm a big guy and have had truckloads of women who have decided that though they liked me just fine otherwise, my physical appearance wasn't something they particularly liked. That's life. It happens.

On the whole, women don't tend to like overweight guys. That's the life guys like me live and we all know it. It doesn't make me angry...I've had too many years of it for it to make me angry anymore and, besides, it seems to me to be pretty normal.

It's good that you guys are still talking and working on something in the future, though. Who knows what a couple months maybring?

 

[Netzach]

Okay, here's the story. I prefer honest discourse rather than flames, but if you have to, flame away.

I met this guy through alt.com. We emailed for a couple of weeks and found that we had quite a lot in common. His profile had pictures on it, but I've come to realize that they weren't really that recent, but they weren't that old, either. We really clicked so decided to meet. We had a great time, he's a great guy and we have a lot of things in common. But he's quite large - not just 20-30 pounds overweight, but probably 50-75. I've never in my life dated someone very overweight, not because I've specifically avoided it or anything, it's just never come up before. I've gone out with plenty of guys carrying a bit of extra weight, hey I'm carrying a few extra pounds myself, so it's not like I'm some beauty queen, either. I do like this guy, but every time I think about the possibility of him dominating me, I just can't picture it. I can't put myself there, if that makes sense. There's a part of me that wants to give this a chance because we do have a lot in common and we get along great, but there's this other part of me that cringes when I think about sex with him.

So on to the question. Do I cut it off now because I'm pretty certain that I'll never be able to go there? Or do I give it a chance? And if I do give it a chance and realize that I was right, I can't ever go there, am I a bitch for hurting him? Because if I do that, it is likely to hurt him. And that's the last thing I'd want to do.

Honest responses please. I realize that there probably are people here who just think I'm a shallow bitch. I'm already thinking that about myself, so you don't really need to tell me that. I'd prefer constructive responses only, please.

You're entitled to want to be physically attracted to someone. If you don't feel yourself able to warm to the notion, it's probably not going to happen.

Better shallow and honest than full of crap with yourself and having to tell him he doesn't do it for you.

That said, I've warmed to people, physically. But never when I felt I could just no way envision it happening, always "you know, she's a little rough faced, but she's really sexy" not just "I can't see it."

 

[FurryFury]

Ok, i'm on the other end of the scale... but here are my two cents....

I met a Dominant (my ex-Master) 4 years ago... We hit it off, in every way but sexually, which he told me would be part of our commitment ceremony. Well.. the ceremony happened 2 years ago, but the sex did not.

Long story short, He is/was not attracted to me in a sexual way, and it's made me extremely bitter that I was told something for the past 4 years that was not true. (I consider omission to be a lie, as he never told me he wasn't attracted to me).

Physical appearance has never been important to me, but I realize now, after 4 years that I would have preferred someone been upfront with me from the beginning.

He and I make great friends, but play partners or lovers, no..........

*sigh*

That's pretty horrible.

I'm so sorry that happened.

*HUGS*

Fury

 

[FurryFury]

In times past marriages were arranged and there was less divorce % then than there is now.

I am sure that the pressure of society had a lot to do with that back then, however I just want to point out that beauty is fleeting. How else could two old wrinkly skinned people who have shared their life together still see the most beautiful/handsome person in the world laying next to them.

I hope they don't see the most beautiful/handsome person next to them. I'd rather they could see clearly and yet appreciate each other for so much more than simply appearence.

One thing that scares me about my husband is how unrealistically I believe he sees me btw.

How attractive I see people is colored by many things.

There have been people I loved as a friend but never considered attractive or for a love affair because society told me they weren't the kind I should have or want. That was when I was much younger though. Now I wish I'd had a much more open mind way back then.


There have been people I found physically attractive from the get go but who I later found extremely and horribly unattractive due to their behavior and attitude to others.

There have been people I found unattractiveand attractive both, who reinforced my view with their attitudes toward themselves and/or treatment of others.

There has been a person who because I was married at the time, I didn't consider at all for romance. A person who for that reason and others was not particularly attractive to me. A person who I thought might be gay because I'd never seen him date. Today, to me, he is the best and, at times the sexist person in the world to me. He is MUCH more attractive to me now than at first blush.

I assume there are some that have found me unattractive and some that have. I once spent ten years with someone who apparently loved to hate my guts.

*shrugs*

So yes, I have had some experience in these things too.

Fury

 

[SierraMoon]

I sorry this happened to you SM. There is wrong and then there is what happened to you. I just can't imagine someone doing something like this to another person, let alone someone who a person claims to have feelings for or care about.

It made me mad when I read it and also sad. I hope you are doing ok and have moved on from this.

Thank you RJ.

I didn't want to hijack Beachgurl's thread, but only wanted to show how people can get hurt (pretty badly) if the other person isn't totally honest about what they are looking for, and what they are attracted to.

I haven't really "moved on" from this, because we are roommates, and unfortunately, we need each other financially right now....... oh well.

Beachgurl, it sounds like you are being honest with him, and that he in turn is accepting of what you have to say. If nothing else, you will end up with a great friend!

Take care!

 

[SierraMoon]

That's pretty horrible.

I'm so sorry that happened.

*HUGS*

Fury

Thank you

 

[RJMasters]

Thank you RJ.

I didn't want to hijack Beachgurl's thread, but only wanted to show how people can get hurt (pretty badly) if the other person isn't totally honest about what they are looking for, and what they are attracted to.

I haven't really "moved on" from this, because we are roommates, and unfortunately, we need each other financially right now....... oh well.

Beachgurl, it sounds like you are being honest with him, and that he in turn is accepting of what you have to say. If nothing else, you will end up with a great friend!

Take care!

Well I will take the opportunity then to wish you change in the coming new year where financhialy you will be able to change the situation, and that also that you on a personal level take back things of yourself that where given under the guise of decpetion.

You had the power to give it, and you also have the power to take it back, I wish that you find the desire to do so and the self-confidence to make it a personal reality.