America can do better than Capitalism

[Sean Renaud]

Popping Tom --- If I watched MSNBC & Al Jazeera instead for my news, I guess that would make me more fearful & respectful of Allah and of the Islamic religion?

And I'd probably be a member of that shrinking minority of Americans who votes for Democrats, as well?

"I'm not on the ballot... but my policies are... every single one of them!" --- Barack Obama

Funny, his policies did get passed. We have some odd twenty states raising the minimum wage, I'm pretty sure gay marriage passed somewhere. This election was one of those times when you have to groan and American stupidity honestly.

Shrinking minority? LOL.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Capitalism is a failed economic model or more accurately an outdated one. That part isn't really up for debate. What is up for debate is what precisely we should be aspiring to accomplish in the modern era.

capitalism failed you because you failed it. your a lazy welfare fucktard

get off your ass and get a job

 

[Dumpington]

Sean Renaud wrote: "Shrinking minority? LOL"

I found that amusing, as well! Nancy Pelosi was already the minority leader in the House of Representatives, yet thanks to President Obama's disastrous second-term her minority got smaller still!

And Harry Reid LOST his U.S. Senate Majority as Obama's bumbling cost his party no fewer than NINE senate seats! It was great!

LOL

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Sean Renaud wrote: "Shrinking minority? LOL"

I found that amusing, as well! Nancy Pelosi was already the minority leader in the House of Representatives, yet thanks to President Obama's disastrous second-term her minority got smaller still!

And Harry Reid LOST his U.S. Senate Majority as Obama's bumbling cost his party no fewer than NINE senate seats! It was great!

LOL

SeanR is the classic mental defective living in the land of obama welfare. he's truly unfit to make it on his own

 

[Sean Renaud]

So we're basing the amount of Democrats and Republicans or Conservatives and Liberals based on the 2014 election entirely? Even though we predicted the outcome a full year in advance and most of us saw it coming in 2012. Come 2016 will you be singing a different tune?

 

[NeverEndingMe]

So we're basing the amount of Democrats and Republicans or Conservatives and Liberals based on the 2014 election entirely? Even though we predicted the outcome a full year in advance and most of us saw it coming in 2012. Come 2016 will you be singing a different tune?

idiot. get a job and join the world. get off your ass and stop collecting welfare

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Stalinist Communism creates capital. Whether it does so as well as capitalism is a complex question, but it does create capital. The world is full of industrialized Communist and ex-Communist countries that were not industrialized before they were Communist.

I would say that Communism as I understand it has never been tried. State-Capitalism has (Mao, Stalin, etc..) and the lesson of history is that the market and private Capitalism is a more efficient and powerful economic system than State-Capitalism and a planned economy. Just as the market and private Capitalism is a more efficient and powerful economic system than Slavery.

 

[KingOrfeo]

I would say that Communism as I understand it has never been tried.

Well, how would it work? How would it differ from what we have come to know as "Communism"?

 

[NeverEndingMe]

how the fuck could anyone want the "state" to own anything?


hello you fucking dipshit asshats, the reason why capitalism works is because people (not you obama kind) want to get off their ass and make something. there is incentive to become successful and make a better life.


where as you obama assholes only want welfare, sit on your ass, drink budwiser, and smoke pot

 

[rosco rathbone]

I can think of a number of possible futures in which what we currently think of as "capitalism" (in itself a moving target) changes to something different, but none of them are arrived at by politics and will for moral change. All change happens from "the outside" in my opinion, via technology, environment, war and catastrophe and politics reflect the external reality and enhance its effects. At best you can prepare the ground.

 

[KingOrfeo]

I can think of a number of possible futures in which what we currently think of as "capitalism" (in itself a moving target) changes to something different, but none of them are arrived at by politics and will for moral change. All change happens from "the outside" in my opinion, via technology, environment, war and catastrophe and politics reflect the external reality and enhance its effects. At best you can prepare the ground.

But, can "preparing the ground" perhaps channel the inevitable changes in one direction or another out of several possible futures? Or is it that the direction as well as the fact of change is pretty much predestined, and all we can do is try to forecast it and prepare to deal with the consequences?

 

[NeverEndingMe]

We need to take America back from the obama terrorists

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Well, how would it work? How would it differ from what we have come to know as "Communism"?

They way I learned about Marx, and the Theories of Surplus Value and the Labor Theory of Value, basically states that you have communism as the fundamental class process in a society when the producers of surplus value are also the appropriators and distributors of that surplus value.

My view is that in what we have come to know as "Communism" the appropriation and distribution of surplus value was not at the direction of those that created it. The State replaced the Board of Directors, but the fundamental class process remained unchanged.

 

[KingOrfeo]

They way I learned about Marx, and the Theories of Surplus Value and the Labor Theory of Value, basically states that you have communism as the fundamental class process in a society when the producers of surplus value are also the appropriators and distributors of that surplus value.

My view is that in what we have come to know as "Communism" the appropriation and distribution of surplus value was not at the direction of those that created it. The State replaced the Board of Directors, but the fundamental class process remained unchanged.

Well, who would be making those decisions in your version of Communism, if not the Party? Independent workers' soviets/cooperatives, or who?

 

[PoppingTom]

I would say that Communism as I understand it has never been tried. State-Capitalism has (Mao, Stalin, etc..) and the lesson of history is that the market and private Capitalism is a more efficient and powerful economic system than State-Capitalism and a planned economy. Just as the market and private Capitalism is a more efficient and powerful economic system than Slavery.

I think that capitalism is the best economic system on earth today, as it uses the synergies of free acting people.

It wouldn't be same good if you had to establish it on a spaceship with maybe millions of people. Keep in mind that you have to regulate nearly everything, and everybody has to obey to keep the ship running, but everybody has demands that have to be supplied in some way. On such a space ship, communism might not only be better. It will be a necessity.

The bad thing about capitalism is that freedom includes the freedom of moral choices, too. Moral became a thing of personal mind. As good as this was for progress, it becomes more and more a problem of society, and every attempt to establish the old moral again leads to more problems of exactly that kind people tried to condemn that moral.

I don't know if it's possible to establish a new moral that aims to solve today's growing problems instead of enhancing them as "necessary evil you have to live with"........

 

[KingOrfeo]

It wouldn't be same good if you had to establish it on a spaceship with maybe millions of people. Keep in mind that you have to regulate nearly everything, and everybody has to obey to keep the ship running, but everybody has demands that have to be supplied in some way. On such a space ship, communism might not only be better. It will be a necessity.

Of course, that's the kind of "communism" you'll find in a military unit, or a prison. It works because it gets economic inputs from outside the system, i.e., tax dollars.

 

[PoppingTom]

Of course, that's the kind of "communism" you'll find in a military unit, or a prison. It works because it gets economic inputs from outside the system, i.e., tax dollars.

Ah, no.

The tax dollars are just a connection to the economic system of the outside world. The military isn't that independent from the system it's in. It's part of the society. Same with prisons.

In a space ship, you won't find that connection. It's a microcosm on his own, an own society with its own rules.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Ah, no.

The tax dollars are just a connection to the economic system of the outside world. The military isn't that independent from the system it's in. It's part of the society. Same with prisons.

In a space ship, you won't find that connection. It's a microcosm on his own, an own society with its own rules.

Which means all those economic inputs need to be front-loaded, i.e., paid for and put on board before the ship launches.

 

[PoppingTom]

Which means all those economic inputs need to be front-loaded, i.e., paid for and put on board before the ship launches.

You aren't able to think there is no payment, are you?

See the space ship as an own economy. Food is produced there, waste is recycled to the max, energy is pigeonholed, you can't become the millionaire, as you face necessary limitations wherever you go. Nobody can be fired, you have to deal with anybody on the ship.

It's even hard to tell if you can still call this "economy", as it has nothing to do with any economy you know so far. It's more organisation, and money would distort that.

 

[KingOrfeo]

You aren't able to think there is no payment, are you?

A spaceship is expensive to build and supply, even a Communist government would have to pay for it somehow.

 

[PoppingTom]

A spaceship is expensive to build and supply, even a Communist government would have to pay for it somehow.

Really?

How much did we paid for the earth?

 

[KingOrfeo]

Really?

How much did we paid for the earth?

Nothing; the Earth just happened. Spaceships don't, and God won't make them for us.

Yes, of course a deep-space ship is a completely autonomous economic unit -- after it launches -- but it is a product of the economy of the society that made it.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

maybe if you obama kind were not so lazy, you could get a job and dicscover how capitalism works?


yeah, i understand that's kind of a fantasy as you monkeys love the welfare

 

[PoppingTom]

Yes, of course a deep-space ship is a completely autonomous economic unit -- after it launches --

But that what it is about. I never said that communism could happen before it launched.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Really?

How much did we paid for the earth?

We didn't build the Earth dip shit, your argument is invalid.