Arousal vs emotion

[AG31]

warm messy pleasure of being a living creature.

And thanks for this, too!

 

[AG31]

A lot of stories on here rely on the idea that sexual arousal is possible without emotional desire.

I wish there were a tag for this.

 

[AG31]

It has to be something that triggers an attraction.

A muscular, slightly hirsute thigh?

 

[AG31]

There can be no physical response without signals and chemicals sent out from the brain...
Vaginas will not moisten without a trigger... No Dopamine.... No lubrication.....

Right. But hormones and the brain can trigger purely physical, rather than emotional, responses

 

[AG31]

Sure, you might get aroused by a purely mechanical action, but it's going to pretty forgettable. Tab A into slot B. Meh.

1 - He inserted tab A into slot A.

2 - The cardboard was not flimsy. It would hold firm even when he worked to get it started in the slot. Both pieces were glossy red, with a small black "A" which would be hidden when they were joined, leaving an almost smooth surface. Even so, one corner threatened to bend a little, but it was easily flattened. He slid the cardboard about gently until it just caught in the slot. It made a soft almost scratchy sound, the only sound in the room. Then he gently rocked the tab from side to side, causing it to move deeper into the slot until the wide part came in contact with the edges with a saisfying tiny <x<Dear Lit Readers, here I need help. I need a word that describes the physical feeling in the hand that is analagous to the auditory "plunk." or "thunk." Can anyone help me?>x>

 

[AG31]

It took a while, but finally it dawned on me that it's absolutely essential, for me, anyay, for the arousal to be accompanied by a particular kind of scene. For instance, though I recognize the potential of @pink_silk_glove's bordering-on-famous-description of a woman's orgasm, it doesn't move me. I'm talking here about fantasy arousal, not real life arousal. I suppose one could hypothesize that the scene I require is associated with an emotion. But I struggle to name the emotion.

What about the rest of you who have defended arousal without emotion? Does context matter?

 

[Easyvirtue]

I am emotionally aroused!!

 

[AG31]

I'm pretty sure several of my stories are about arousal without emotion. Or at least without emotional feelings for another person.

Exhibitionist & Voyeur lends itself very well to those kinds of stories (Flesh for Fantasy for the voyeur's perspective, for instance, and By Voice and By Candle for the exhibitionist's). Not necessarily all E&V, though - it's equally easy to write a voyeur story that's brimming with emotion.

But it works with other types of stories, particularly ones that involve situations between strangers or near-strangers. In Fun with Fingers, the narrator doesn't even know who the fingers belong to. The Code is about nothing but physical attraction and giving in to desire. Bound to the Blade has two sex scenes without any emotion, and one where the principal emotions are fear and urgency.

In fact, I could go on and list a dozen more scenes from my stories. Whether or not there's an emotional connection between the participants depends on the kind of story I'm telling. Sometimes it makes it hotter if there isn't any connection at all.

These are excellent, if imperfect, examples. (Didn't read all of bound to the Blade). I may have hit upon a reason why there are no perfect examples in my post in this thread about context. Your settings are so evocative, I think they are essential. Are there emotions tied to them???? And then there's this "She'd felt vulnerable, helpless, and that made her angry." in By Voice. But, yes, good examples.

 

[StillStunned]

I suppose one could hypothesize that the scene I require is associated with an emotion. But I struggle to name the emotion.

What about the rest of you who have defended arousal without emotion? Does context matter?

These are excellent, if imperfect, examples. (Didn't read all of bound to the Blade). I may have hit upon a reason why there are no perfect examples in my post in this thread about context. Your settings are so evocative, I think they are essential. Are there emotions tied to them???? And then there's this "She'd felt vulnerable, helpless, and that made her angry." in By Voice. But, yes, good examples.

I have stories where arousal is accompanied by anger, by fear, by relief, by guilt, by frustration, by shame, by jealousy, and probably half a dozen more, and various combinations of them. Just like in real life: we're not always overwhelmed feelings of love or infatuation when we're having sex. There are plenty of other things going on, and other situations where we might be aroused.

In that sense, yes, there's always an accompanying emotion, but that's probably because people are always feeling things. I've read quite a few stories here where the sex is described along the lines of "and then she undressed and my cock went stiff and I fucked her." They feel flat, because the description doesn't draw the reader in. I don't need to read about how the character feels a close connection, or how in love they are, but there's got to be something going on inside.

That said, now I'm curious whether it's possible to write a scene of arousal that's entirely detached from any emotion, and to make it work. I'll ponder it while I'm working tonight. But I suspect the character would come across as a psychopath.

(And thank you for the very kind words about my stories, by the way!)

 

[AlexBailey]

A bit of thought salad on this….

(I’m currently trying stimulant medication for ADHD so I’m gaining new perspective of my inner workings. Constant racing thoughts are slowing down and waiting in line much more politely for the first time in my life.)

Emotion can definitely be separate from arousal - the simplest example is a healthy parental relationship. I can also get non-sexual crushes on people I connect with musically, and I know it’s a common thing for many people - you can see it when a tight group finishes a piece they’re all connecting on when they catch eyes and smile at each other meaningfully before turning back to the audience or moving on to the next piece. It can also produce oxytocin and promote a deep feeling of emotional connection.

Arousal can definitely be separate from emotion. It’s my current theory that part of my hyper sexuality is a form of self-medicating with dopamine. A self produced orgasm briefly grabs 100% of my attention, providing a moment of peace and inner calm. With ADHD, masturbation comes with a chorus of unwelcome thoughts, often requiring effort to quiet the doubts and inner immolation until at some point enough dopamine takes over that everything else falls away.

This is my fifth day of taking stimulant meds. I’ve noticed that while my gender identity and sexuality are still not conventional, I’m no longer being internally bombarded by all of the voices of hate and lack of empathy so many people have for someone like me.

I can now dress and present as I want and since my mind isn’t beating me down from within I’m not filled with the projections of shame and I don’t feel so compelled to get an orgasmic dopamine release.

 

[AG31]

That said, now I'm curious whether it's possible to write a scene of arousal that's entirely detached from any emotion, and to make it work. I'll ponder it while I'm working tonight. But I suspect the character would come across as a psychopath.

I've wondered if men or Lesbians find @pink_silk_glove's post on female orgasm arousing. I think I would if I were male/Lesbian, and I don't think there's emotion there. But I may be misremembering. Here's the link.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I've wondered if men find @pink_silk_glove's post on female orgasm arousing. I think I would if I were male, and I don't think there's emotion there. But I may be misremembering. Here's the link.

@pink_silk_glove's post was very intimate, she exposed herself willingly before an audience in a forum that she knows is mostly male, and she was body positive about herself. There's a lot to like, but there was also an emotional distance. The piece was sexual but not sexy. I don't think it was written to arouse, but it was something more than clinical. I thought it a very honest piece of writing, very generous. But was the piece arousing? Not for me - because of that emotional distance. Her body was available for us to see, but she wasn't giving us herself.

Intimate but not emotional, thus for me, not arousing. I need a connection.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Right. But hormones and the brain can trigger purely physical, rather than emotional, responses

Hormones....
A chemical produced by the brain... (I think) Not trying to be clever. I'm no expert...
My personal belief is. There can be no purely physical reaction. Without the brain engaging. Our bodies are useless...
It's why comatose patients require life support.

If we have an accident, hurt ourselves. The brain is what tells us it hurts.

If we see somebody who arouses or excites us. It's the brain that creates a boost of the required chemical to get us to react... Lubricate... blush... flutter our eyes...

This is me hypothesising... not stating facts... It's just what I think.

There's no such thing as a purely physical reaction.

Cagivagurl

 

[Cagivagurl]

Arousal...
It isn't always sexual. Our senses can be aroused, excited by purely sensory driven experiences. I personally like the analogy @AlexBailey used regarding musicians.
I am also a musician, and play in several bands. The feeling of euphoria after playing a piece and every member of the band was in the zone. We all nailed our different parts. The feeling of total elation. All the senses are in overload. The dopamine hit is huge. Far better than any drug ever produced...

Those reactions though, are driven by the brain. Hearing, feeling, seeing, touching. It's non sexual, but oh my god. It is so aroiusing and exciting... Pure heaven.

I imagine sports teams feel similar things when everything goes perfectly for them....

So... me doing some more hypothesising... You can be aroused in a non sexual way, but not without emotions...

What you can't be is aroused sexually without the aid of the brain and emotions... The same sesnses the musicians feel must be in play to be aroused....

So my thoughts. "No sexual arousal without emotion (Of some kind)"

Cagivagurl

 

[AG31]

I've wondered if men or Lesbians find @pink_silk_glove's post on female orgasm arousing. I think I would if I were male/Lesbian, and I don't think there's emotion there. But I may be misremembering. Here's the link.

EDIT: On reflection, why not ask straight women as well? Just because I no longer respond to descriptions of female arousal doesn't mean that others don't. So I'm adding you folks to my question.

 

[AG31]

There can be no purely physical reaction. Without the brain engaging.

Of course not. But "brain" doesn't equal "emotion." You seem to be making that equivalence.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Of course not. But "brain" doesn't equal "emotion." You seem to be making that equivalence.

yes, I guess I am, because that is what I believe...
Emotional response to a stimuli...
Emotion is feeling... So equally. Feeling is emotional... (Overly simplified I know)

So, if we feel something. We have developed an emotional response. Maybe it's hate. We just tasted (A sensory response) A wonderful new curry. We enjoyed it so much, we loved it. (An emotion)...
Conversely, perhaps we hated it... Still an emotion...
It's just my view of the world. An opinion. I'm not trying to change your mind. Your views may be completely different to mine. This is me giving you another opinion. There have been lots offered in this thread, as in all.

Cagivagurl

 

[AlexBailey]

So my thoughts. "No sexual arousal without emotion (Of some kind)"

(I love hearing how other musicians share that unique experience. It’s a true feeling of shared euphoria. )

There is a studied and proven method of male sexual stimulation that involves no emotion - it’s used to harvest sperm from people with spinal cord injuries and in some cases brain dead donors, but it could probably also work on conscious people.



https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/23997-electroejaculation

What is electroejaculation?​

Electroejaculation is a way to obtain sperm when a person can’t ejaculate on their own due to a spine injury, nerve problem or other condition. A healthcare provider inserts an electrical stimulator device into your rectum to reach the prostate gland. Mild electrical currents stimulate the gland, causing ejaculation to occur. A healthcare provider stores any released fluid. Your provider may also place a catheter (thin, flexible tube) in your penis to collect sperm.

​

 

[Cagivagurl]

(I love hearing how other musicians share that unique experience. It’s a true feeling of shared euphoria. )

There is a studied and proven method of male sexual stimulation that involves no emotion - it’s used to harvest sperm from people with spinal cord injuries and in some cases brain dead donors, but it could probably also work on conscious people.



https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/23997-electroejaculation

What is electroejaculation?​

Electroejaculation is a way to obtain sperm when a person can’t ejaculate on their own due to a spine injury, nerve problem or other condition. A healthcare provider inserts an electrical stimulator device into your rectum to reach the prostate gland. Mild electrical currents stimulate the gland, causing ejaculation to occur. A healthcare provider stores any released fluid. Your provider may also place a catheter (thin, flexible tube) in your penis to collect sperm.

​

True...
A machine generating a signal. Replacing the brains required input. With today's technology. Nothing surprises me... Still, it requires a signal from a source to stimulate the nerves that create the ejaculation... So essentially creating a feeling...

LOL. I'm just throwing out my ideas. Trying to explain my thoughts. Not change anybody elses.

A shared musical moment.
Yes, that moment of sheer joy when it all comes together.... You're onstage and playing... The foldback is perfect. You can hear everybody. Everywhere you look, the other group members are smiling... Their feet tapping, swaying. Totally in the groove.
Your eyes meet, you smile a little... Yeah... They're feeling exactly what you're feeling...
So much better than any orgasm I've ever had... Pure euphoria, and shared...

It gets better when you look out into the sea of faces in the crowd. Everybody's dancing. Jumping up and down, waving their arms in the air. Singing along. Everybody's feeling it. That is the moment....

I love those moments. They're hard to come by... Often the stage sound isn't that good... Somebody in the band is having a bad day... Things just don't click... But when they do. It is incomparable.

Cagivagurl

 

[Britva415]

I wish there were a tag for this.

There are quite a few tags which I feel imply it.

one night stand
casual
pick up
zipless
no strings
stranger
random

 

[AG31]

There are quite a few tags which I feel imply it.

one night stand
casual
pick up
zipless
no strings
stranger
random

Thanks. I'll give them a look.

 

[Living_in_a_lewd_world]

I think, arousal isn't an emotion as such, but is closely connected to emotions.

Arousal is a body reaction on certain stimuli, some may be natural like the reaction on stimulation of the clitoris or glans penis. Some may be completely learned or have at least learned aspects to it (like getting aroused from reading certain texts). Some may be very complex like getting aroused from experiencing something 'surprising'.

I think a very important aspect of arousal is that it can amplify (m)any emotion one feels in the situation of arousal, both good and bad. That can make it as well the source of big joy but also big fear and anger.

 

[StillStunned]

Alright, challenge accepted. Arousal that engages the reader without emotion. What do you think?

*
He’d never paid much attention to Marigold before. But today she was wearing soft woollen trousers that revealed her firm, round arse cheeks and then hung loosely down her legs.

Even then he probably wouldn’t have noticed, except she was walking right in front of him and he saw the slightest jiggle of flesh inside that soft wool.

And just like that an image appeared in his mind. Marigold’s arse without the trousers. He picture it: two round globes, the crack dividing them, a glimpse of her pussy below with a hint of hair.

The image went straight to his cock. The first surge of blood – not enough to swell more than a little, but so full of pleasure, and full of the promise of more pleasure.

The rest of the day dragged on. Everywhere he looked, he saw naked flesh. An inch of cleavage down Brandi’s blouse, Claudine’s soft red lips wettened by her softer, redder tongue. The intimate moment when Ellie ran her hands through her hair and for an instant exposed the back of her neck.

And all that time he maintained the same state. That single surge of arousal along his shaft, not so much that he betrayed himself, just enough so he felt himself. Felt that warmth that was ready to become heat, and then fire, and then the all-consuming lightning of relief.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Alright, challenge accepted. Arousal that engages the reader without emotion. What do you think?

There's a number of emotional words or concepts here. It's not completely dispassionate.

He’d never paid much attention to Marigold before.

Why not? Disdain, disinterest, dislike? Something is implied. They're emotions.

But today she was wearing soft

Soft is a tactile word: soft cloth, soft fur, soft voice. Again, there's an implied feeling (to me, at least, because I often use "soft" to conjure feeling - okay, so that's a personal bias).

woollen trousers that revealed her firm, round arse cheeks and then hung loosely down her legs.

Even then he probably wouldn’t have noticed, except she was walking right in front of him and he saw the slightest jiggle of flesh inside that soft wool.

And just like that an image appeared in his mind. Marigold’s arse without the trousers. He picture it: two round globes, the crack dividing them, a glimpse of her pussy below with a hint of hair.

Glimpse, hint. They're conjuring something teasing, flirtatious.

The image went straight to his cock. The first surge of blood – not enough to swell more than a little, but so full of pleasure, and full of the promise of more pleasure.

"So full of pleasure, and full of the promise of more pleasure". If that's not an emotionally charged sentence, I don't know what is. You've even used the literary ploy of repetition to reinforce the response.

The rest of the day dragged on.

Dragged = tedious, boring, going on forever - that's a full of feeling response.

Everywhere he looked, he saw naked flesh. An inch of cleavage down Brandi’s blouse, Claudine’s soft red lips wettened by her softer, redder tongue. The intimate moment when Ellie ran her hands through her hair and for an instant exposed the back of her neck.

This whole section is full of emotional conjuring.

And all that time he maintained the same state. That single surge of arousal along his shaft, not so much that he betrayed himself, just enough so he felt himself. Felt that warmth that was ready to become heat, and then fire, and then the all-consuming lightning of relief.

Betrayed is an emotional reaction, as is all-consuming.

It's harder than you think, I reckon, to write something completely dispassionate, emotionless. Your example doesn't do it. If it did, you'd be describing a plank of wood, which wouldn't be arousing at all.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Alright, challenge accepted. Arousal that engages the reader without emotion. What do you think?

*
He’d never paid much attention to Marigold before. But today she was wearing soft woollen trousers that revealed her firm, round arse cheeks and then hung loosely down her legs.

Even then he probably wouldn’t have noticed, except she was walking right in front of him and he saw the slightest jiggle of flesh inside that soft wool.

And just like that an image appeared in his mind. Marigold’s arse without the trousers. He picture it: two round globes, the crack dividing them, a glimpse of her pussy below with a hint of hair.

The image went straight to his cock. The first surge of blood – not enough to swell more than a little, but so full of pleasure, and full of the promise of more pleasure.

The rest of the day dragged on. Everywhere he looked, he saw naked flesh. An inch of cleavage down Brandi’s blouse, Claudine’s soft red lips wettened by her softer, redder tongue. The intimate moment when Ellie ran her hands through her hair and for an instant exposed the back of her neck.

And all that time he maintained the same state. That single surge of arousal along his shaft, not so much that he betrayed himself, just enough so he felt himself. Felt that warmth that was ready to become heat, and then fire, and then the all-consuming lightning of relief.

You see, for me that still includes emotion...
A visual sense, in this case visual. Created a feeling within the viewer... His eyes saw, his brain connected the dots.
He felt an emotion... Arousal. endorphins, Dopamine were released by the brain causing his reaction to the visual stimuli. Excitement... Arousal... They are both an emotional response...
His heart rate increased. His blood pressure increased. The physical reaction caused by the brain doing what it does. Controlling our body.

I said earlier. I'm no expert.. Just an opinion. In my mind, every physical action is linked to an emotion. In the above case. Excitement.

Cagivagurl