Being autistic, adhd and random stuff

[stickygirl]

Got a quick author question

I am writing a long story that includes a 23yr old, level 1 autistic woman. Early on she is 'targeted' by an older married man, who hides the fact he is married in order to take advantage of her sexually.
When she is told the truth by a trusted friend, she has shutdown for some hours ( like you would ).

The next day she decides to confront the man in a public space in front of other people.

1. I've assumed she will confront him ( would she though? )
2. Would she be icy cold or super verbal/angry
3. Could it trigger a meltdown?
4. Some other reaction I've not thought of.

What I think I ought to write is that she confronts him ( on a Sunday outside church ) and shouts at him loud enough for others to hear. A woman who overhears, admonishers her for 'leading on a married man' because wtf - other women do stuff like that!

Anyhowsie. What would you do? I'd get angry then burst into tears.

 

[Noor]

Got a quick author question

I am writing a long story that includes a 23yr old, level 1 autistic woman. Early on she is 'targeted' by an older married man, who hides the fact he is married in order to take advantage of her sexually.
When she is told the truth by a trusted friend, she has shutdown for some hours ( like you would ).

The next day she decides to confront the man in a public space in front of other people.

1. I've assumed she will confront him ( would she though? )
2. Would she be icy cold or super verbal/angry
3. Could it trigger a meltdown?
4. Some other reaction I've not thought of.

What I think I ought to write is that she confronts him ( on a Sunday outside church ) and shouts at him loud enough for others to hear. A woman who overhears, admonishers her for 'leading on a married man' because wtf - other women do stuff like that!

Anyhowsie. What would you do? I'd get angry then burst into tears.

I wouldn’t bother confronting.

 

[stickygirl]

I wouldn’t bother confronting.

Thanks, that's interesting. The problem is I suspect I can't see wood for trees atm.

 

[Strixaluco]

Got a quick author question

I am writing a long story that includes a 23yr old, level 1 autistic woman. Early on she is 'targeted' by an older married man, who hides the fact he is married in order to take advantage of her sexually.
When she is told the truth by a trusted friend, she has shutdown for some hours ( like you would ).

The next day she decides to confront the man in a public space in front of other people.

1. I've assumed she will confront him ( would she though? )
2. Would she be icy cold or super verbal/angry
3. Could it trigger a meltdown?
4. Some other reaction I've not thought of.

What I think I ought to write is that she confronts him ( on a Sunday outside church ) and shouts at him loud enough for others to hear. A woman who overhears, admonishers her for 'leading on a married man' because wtf - other women do stuff like that!

Anyhowsie. What would you do? I'd get angry then burst into tears.

I wouldn't confront anyone in a public space, I'd be absolutely too self-conscious.

And in such a case I'd probably just block them. But when I confront someone, I tend to get angry, and there's risk of a meltdown.

However, whether she'd be icy cold or angry depends on what kind of personality you make them.

 

[stickygirl]

I wouldn't confront anyone in a public space, I'd be absolutely too self-conscious.

And in such a case I'd probably just block them. But when I confront someone, I tend to get angry, and there's risk of a meltdown.

However, whether she'd be icy cold or angry depends on what kind of personality you make them.

Yups .... like when I confronted my neighbour about their noisy cockerels ( and I lost it a bit )

This scene from my story was always some way off so I didn't need to give it much thought. Now that I've caught up, I think I might let my subconscious mull it over for a couple of days.

 

[PMarky2]

I wouldn’t bother confronting

Got a quick author question

I am writing a long story that includes a 23yr old, level 1 autistic woman. Early on she is 'targeted' by an older married man, who hides the fact he is married in order to take advantage of her sexually.
When she is told the truth by a trusted friend, she has shutdown for some hours ( like you would ).

The next day she decides to confront the man in a public space in front of other people.

1. I've assumed she will confront him ( would she though? )
2. Would she be icy cold or super verbal/angry
3. Could it trigger a meltdown?
4. Some other reaction I've not thought of.

What I think I ought to write is that she confronts him ( on a Sunday outside church ) and shouts at him loud enough for others to hear. A woman who overhears, admonishers her for 'leading on a married man' because wtf - other women do stuff like that!

Anyhowsie. What would you do? I'd get angry then burst into tears.

I suspect I would be in the angry and start crying camp. After that probably rigidly avoid that person because they had really hurt me.

 

[stickygirl]

I'm thinking that her trusted female friend ( who will be a love interest ) will suggest the two of them confront him. This also helps the plot to push the two women together.
I'm not sure I would have the courage to face him so...

 

[anthrodisiac]

Hey, soooo...

Recently realized I might be agender or non-binary I was going to say agender with a feminine lean, but that's inherently contradictory, so maybe NB with a feminine lean? It's a slight lean, most of the time not even really that to be honest, hence why I'm waffling between the two. But it still feels weird to consider myself this way, but it's only been a week since I really took it seriously. I mean, I've been myself for 37 years, in this body I was born with (for all the good's it's done me ), with the gender and sex I was assigned at birth this whole time. So why stop being that now? I don't think I'd present differently, but it's still gnawing at me.

Thinking back, I've never really had super gendered thoughts. Didn't fit in with girls, boys, or anybody, really. Weirdo who got along with misfits and naught else. First and foremost, I consider myself a collection of thoughts trapped in a meatsack. Not one I particularly like, or really ever have; made worse by severe illness, PTSD, and twenty years' worth of chronic pain. It's highly possible that it's less I'm agender/NB than it's that I feel incredibly dissociative from my body as a result of the discomfort and my body trying to kill me a couple times (and very nearly succeeding, the scamp). Probably some combo, but I don't know which is causing it more.

I know this kind of thing is a lot more prevalent among neurospicy people than ents (aka NTs aka neurotypicals), but does anyone else experience anything like this? Feeling dissociated from your physical self, and having struggled to fit in with gender norms and expectations, never really feeling like one of the girls/guys, not liking the things girls/guys are supposed to like, etc., to the point that it made/makes you feel like neither gender or nothing at all?

I both like the idea of being AG/NB and dislike it, as well as feel like maybe I'm reading too much into it or it's not "fair" to call myself one of those because people who very clearly are know what they are, and I just... don't...

Anyway, curious if anyone else has felt like this. Is the non-gendered thinking more a product of being ND or physical ailments? I feel like the latter exaserbated the dissociation, but I also feel like it kinda existed beforehand. So if you've experienced it, to what extent did you experience it and how has it affected your sense of identity?

Lots going on there, sorry

 

[Strixaluco]

does anyone else experience anything like this? Feeling dissociated from your physical self

This part at times, yes. Kind of just living in my brain, and then even doing physical things is a bit hard. Especially when I'm exhausted or otherwise unwell.
But I feel very much a woman when I'm associating with my body.

 

[stickygirl]

Hey, soooo...

~snip~

Anyway, curious if anyone else has felt like this. Is the non-gendered thinking more a product of being ND or physical ailments? I feel like the latter exaserbated the dissociation, but I also feel like it kinda existed beforehand. So if you've experienced it, to what extent did you experience it and how has it affected your sense of identity?

Lots going on there, sorry

I'm mildly surprised to learn that you think your physical challenges have increased the dissociation... that got me thinking.

Reading your words I reflected on a pet theory of mine: that the reason men are generally such a-holes is because they can live in a bubble, insulated from the real world, because they exist in a body that never changes - never has hormonal shifts or periods. Men never have to deal with the messy reality of their bodies, whereas women have no choice and it keeps women grounded.

So maybe your ptsd and physical problems have pushed you beyond what most people experience and made you weary of your body and wishing for a neutral position? Sorry - does that sounds simplistic?

You're correct that many NDs view the conventions of societal gender roles with scepticism, and may present as AG or NB. After I discovered I was ND I re-examined my rationale for transitioning. I don't conform to the frippery of female role playing - I don't need to wear camouflage to be me, but delight in wearing cute outfits as much as seeing the necessity of dungarees and muck-boots. Underpinning everything else, is my unshakable sense that I am a woman with autism.

 

[anthrodisiac]

I'm mildly surprised to learn that you think your physical challenges have increased the dissociation... that got me thinking.

Reading your words I reflected on a pet theory of mine: that the reason men are generally such a-holes is because they can live in a bubble, insulated from the real world, because they exist in a body that never changes - never has hormonal shifts or periods. Men never have to deal with the messy reality of their bodies, whereas women have no choice and it keeps women grounded.

So maybe your ptsd and physical problems have pushed you beyond what most people experience and made you weary of your body and wishing for a neutral position? Sorry - does that sounds simplistic?

You're correct that many NDs view the conventions of societal gender roles with scepticism, and may present as AG or NB. After I discovered I was ND I re-examined my rationale for transitioning. I don't conform to the frippery of female role playing - I don't need to wear camouflage to be me, but delight in wearing cute outfits as much as seeing the necessity of dungarees and muck-boots. Underpinning everything else, is my unshakable sense that I am a woman with autism.

Doesn't sound simplistic at all, it's more or less my theory. I also had a medication severe a lot of memory from emotion (accident, taking a migraine medication, turns out it's also used for PTSD if you do in it a controlled way when exposed to your fear, but I was taking it a couple times a day for three years, so... oops Propranolol, fun stuff). So I imagine that definitely instigated a lot of it as well and probably made me further dissociate.

I just feel bad because I don't really feel... I dunno, like I am agendered or NB? I mean, I do, and I don't. I don't in the sense that I'm not feeling like my sex and gender don't match, it's higher level than that. It's more that my mind and body don't match, and never really did, and my mind never fully conditioned to the proper gender norms despite lots of attempts to get me to conform. It's like that part of what was supposed to be imprinted never got imprinted. So to say I'm NB when people who feel that way have a lot more gender dysphoria, as opposed to just, you know, physical existence dysphoria?

I have no idea if any of this makes even the slightest bit of sense. Like I said, I'm still trying to come to grips with it. Always been a bit of a big concept person, probably doesn't help for figuring this out

 

[Strixaluco]

and my mind never fully conditioned to the proper gender norms despite lots of attempts to get me to conform. It's like that part of what was supposed to be imprinted never got imprinted.

This sounds like part of a phenomena called "autigender". Autism can affect how we experience gender, even if it's the gender assigned at birth. We often don't conform to other norms, either, nor feel like belonging in mostly neurotypical groups.

 

[Strixaluco]

My niece is autistic, and for some time even rejected her assigned gender. It took her a couple of years before coming back to it (Im happy for her that she felt like that after all, makes life so much easier), and I suspect she's still not quite binary. Her experience is definitely something that goes to the autigender category, I suspect even PDA played into it by rejecting norms and expectations.

 

[anthrodisiac]

This sounds like part of a phenomena called "autigender". Autism can affect how we experience gender, even if it's the gender assigned at birth. We often don't conform to other norms, either, nor feel like belonging in mostly neurotypical groups.

That's interesting. I feel like I remember hearing about it at some point, but it seemed kind of strange at the time. Not sure how I feel about it now, to be honest. I'm struggling to reconcile the concept of gender, a social construct, with a neurological/developmental condition, autism. Not saying it's not valid, anyone can label themselves however they want, that's fine by me, none of my business. But for me, it feels like a mixing of two different classifications of being, whereas gender ought to be distinct.

I like neat categorizations, which, you know, sucks for these kinds of things where it's all subjective based on lived experience Brain doesn't really much care for my neat categorizations, damn thing

I'll be honest, I wasn't sure what PDA was. Was trying to figure out how public displays of affection played into it Whoops. Pathological Demand Avoidance, I think is what you're talking about. I could see how that might impact one's sense of gender, everyone telling you to be a girl this way, when you just want to make sure your crayon drawer is color-coded, and the blue pants fit much nicer than some silly dress.

Probably will be one of those things I sit with for a bit, let it percolate. But I appreciate everyone's feedback. Just wanted a bit of a gut check, poke around some anecdata, small survey, reactions, etc.

 

[stickygirl]

That's interesting. I feel like I remember hearing about it at some point, but it seemed kind of strange at the time. Not sure how I feel about it now, to be honest. I'm struggling to reconcile the concept of gender, a social construct, with a neurological/developmental condition, autism. Not saying it's not valid, anyone can label themselves however they want, that's fine by me, none of my business. But for me, it feels like a mixing of two different classifications of being, whereas gender ought to be distinct.

I like neat categorizations, which, you know, sucks for these kinds of things where it's all subjective based on lived experience Brain doesn't really much care for my neat categorizations, damn thing

But you're stuck with one measuring tool ( your brain ) for different categorisations - like using a ruler to measure pH or salinity! The social con of gender can only be measured by other people in any case: we have to learn the rules and fashion changes the rules constantly. My fucked up sense of gender is reinforced by society but my mother tells me I was girly from the get-go: I made the blue toy trains have tea-parties.

I'll be honest, I wasn't sure what PDA was. Was trying to figure out how public displays of affection played into it Whoops. Pathological Demand Avoidance, I think is what you're talking about. I could see how that might impact one's sense of gender, everyone telling you to be a girl this way, when you just want to make sure your crayon drawer is color-coded, and the blue pants fit much nicer than some silly dress.

My hand up too - didn't know PDA, but now I wish I didn't because I'm going to have to think about it and how stubborn I get if someone asks me to do something. Quick answer is that I think I was more 'reflex-stubborn' as a kid.

Probably will be one of those things I sit with for a bit, let it percolate. But I appreciate everyone's feedback. Just wanted a bit of a gut check, poke around some anecdata, small survey, reactions, etc.

Aha! Isn't everyone yapping about gut-brain these days?! Maybe it's a UK thing? ( Our gut is now regarded as a simple brain and can carry on working without the brain ) I suspect it's research sponsored by Yakult.

 

[Strixaluco]

I'm going to have to think about it and how stubborn I get if someone asks me to do something.

It's not always pathologica/extreme (EDA is also used). Some level of demand avoidance is common among us. The extreme affects even things you want to do, not just what you're told or asked to do.

 

[anthrodisiac]

But you're stuck with one measuring tool ( your brain ) for different categorisations - like using a ruler to measure pH or salinity! The social con of gender can only be measured by other people in any case: we have to learn the rules and fashion changes the rules constantly. My fucked up sense of gender is reinforced by society but my mother tells me I was girly from the get-go: I made the blue toy trains have tea-parties.

My hand up too - didn't know PDA, but now I wish I didn't because I'm going to have to think about it and how stubborn I get if someone asks me to do something. Quick answer is that I think I was more 'reflex-stubborn' as a kid.

Aha! Isn't everyone yapping about gut-brain these days?! Maybe it's a UK thing? ( Our gut is now regarded as a simple brain and can carry on working without the brain ) I suspect it's research sponsored by Yakult.

You can use a ruler to measure pH. Stick the ruler in a vat of liquids, if it disintegrates, it's acid! Salinity, you scoop up water, lick it, and see how salty it is. Probably better tools, though

I get what you mean. But I'm an extrapolator, I use benchmarks of known human quantities to measure myself against. Now that I'm in, "Well, you can call yourself what you want based on nothing more than preferences," land, it's irksome to not have reliable benchmarks so I can classify it. Is it because of gender, because of autism, because of all my physical issues? Some combo of that, most likely, but disentangling if it's more general dissociation vs. an actual gender thing is probably impossible. Really, I should stop focusing on why, and start focusing on what it means, if anything. But I'm sure most of you know that telling a spectrumite not to focus on "why" is like telling black hole to stop distorting spacetime. Ain't happening.

I guess I'll see where it takes me. Mentally consider myself agendered or NB, see how it feels. Go from there.

Gut has 100mil+ neurons and is connected to the brain via the vagus nerve, so it can have a pretty big effect on the neurochemicals in your actual brain. Connections between gut, microbiome, mental health are really interesting. I know there is some research that points to autism being at least partly related to microbiome/gut health, although whether the gut is that way because of the autism or the autism is that way because of the gut isn't fully established... which of course led to a bunch of scammers claiming they could cure autism if only you gave them your money for some magic pill that will fix your gut and make you stop talking to everyone within a thirty-foot radius about space the first chance you get.

But I like talking about space...

 

[Strixaluco]

But you're stuck with one measuring tool ( your brain ) for different categorisations - like using a ruler to measure pH or salinity! The social con of gender can only be measured by other people in any case: we have to learn the rules and fashion changes the rules constantly. My fucked up sense of gender is reinforced by society but my mother tells me I was girly from the get-go: I made the blue toy trains have tea-parties.

Not just measuring but experiencing tool. Autism can affect basically anything we experience.

Social gender norms are heavily affected by patriarchy (probably much more in the US than here in the Nordic countries.) And autistic people often reject big parts of patriarchy because it doesn't make sense. So that's already one part of gender norms that just doesn't make sense to us.

Also the way our brains functions cross gender norms. I've often played better with the boys, and many autistic men prefer women's company.

And then, like with you putting toy trains on a tea party, our brain makes more and unexpected connections. (Which can also lead to fetishes sometimes.)

 

[PMarky2]

Not just measuring but experiencing tool. Autism can affect basically anything we experience.

Social gender norms are heavily affected by patriarchy (probably much more in the US than here in the Nordic countries.) And autistic people often reject big parts of patriarchy because it doesn't make sense. So that's already one part of gender norms that just doesn't make sense to us.

Also the way our brains functions cross gender norms. I've often played better with the boys, and many autistic men prefer women's company.

And then, like with you putting toy trains on a tea party, our brain makes more and unexpected connections. (Which can also lead to fetishes sometimes.)

I want to park the Patriarchy word somewhere, as that is a deconstructionist concept, and deal with the much more straightforward idea male stereotyping. The U.S. has a very particular male stereotype which tends to exalt some of the less desirable aspects of maleness including a toxic form of competitiveness that manifests in all sorts of ways such as 'How many girls have you laid?' Etc., etc. I call it the He-Man culture, and I want nothing to do with it.

In my mind I have no problem identifying as a straight man, but that's more or less a function of who I want to go to bed with. That said, there is quite a bit about straight guy behaviour that can come off as crude or "gamey" to me, so although I am happy identifying as a straight man, it is with the understanding that I:

loathe sport,
am uninterested in cars,
arrange flowers,
like to cook,
prefer female company,
like nice clothes,
am interested in historical women's fashion,
detest computer games,
don't always fit the stereotype

The women I tend to be attracted to tend to be either very feminine, but not bimbo-ish, or else a wee bit masculine in their interests.

 

[Strixaluco]

I want to park the Patriarchy word somewhere, as that is a deconstructionist concept, and deal with the much more straightforward idea male stereotyping.

But male stereotype model is only about men. Patriarchy affects both gender models.

 

[PMarky2]

But male stereotype model is only about men. Patriarchy affects both gender models.

I want to argue that a little. The male stereotype, when men buy into it, does affect both sexes because it validate certain behaviours which invalidate women.

 

[stickygirl]

You do stereotype!
My understanding of 'patriarchy' includes social and political behaviours as they impact the lives of women. It's the authorities of economics, justice and morality wielded in the best interests of men over women.

 

[Strixaluco]

I want to argue that a little. The male stereotype, when men buy into it, does affect both sexes because it validate certain behaviours which invalidate women.

That is too simplistic. It is much more than just behaviour of men that affect women. Most women have at least some part of the system ingrained, too. Basically self-policing themselves and orhers.

 

[stickygirl]

New Lee jeans
Like a mobile weighed blanket
Feeling squeezed happy

 

[Sounding22]

Just curious, when all is said and done. Just what has anyone physically done to help/change
Autism or any other brain related abnormalities?
I hear and read lots of bs from people that claim they have autism. yet I wonder if they even met someone with it?