Carson lied again. NO WEST POINT SCHOLARSHIP.

[sr71plt]

Let's not get off the reservation on what can get you into West Point and what can happen before an acceptance. I'm not saying it all happened for Ben Carson, but I'm seeing a lot of misunderstanding about admissions here.

Members of Congress have quotas they can fill--and they can offer anything they like up front. And when congressmen fill their quotas (which they are encouraged to do), they often are working with high-ranking military officers. So, Ben Carson could have been offered the world on going to West Point by General Westmoreland, as he writes in his book. And if he didn't accept, it wouldn't have gone to the point of West Point knowing he'd been offered a position (and anything on top of that).

So, where this has been taken requires more than what is written in the book.

http://www.west-point.org/academy/malo-wa/educators/noms.html

I'm a bit more concerned about taking a hammer to mother in his teens.

 

[Hard_Rom]

I read it as a child. I'll admit as a 10 year old black kid it was inspirational. He (even with the various lies that seem to be showing up) a damn good example of the American Dream in action. Nobody is debating the following points. He was a young poor kid born going to school RIGHT as desegregation was happening went to Harvard, became the first man to separate coinjoined twins at the skull with both surviving and went on to be the director of pedatric neurosurgery at John Hopkins (and I'm guessing the first black in that rank but I'm not looking that up and will admit my folly if proven wrong.)

You almost have to question why lie when the reality of your story is already sufficiently awesome.

You're right. Why lie.

Because he is a nutbar. Accomplished, educated, raised himself up out of poverty, is worth millions now. But still a raving nutbar. And the Republicans best choice. Only slightly less nutty than Trump. Sad, sad, sad.

Benjamin Solomon "Ben" Carson, Sr. (born September 18, 1951) is a retired American neurosurgeon who is a candidate for President of the United States in the 2016 presidential election. He was the Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Maryland from 1984 until his retirement in 2013. Among his achievements as a surgeon were separation of conjoined twins and a technique for controlling brain seizures. Both achievements were recognized in 2008 with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Born into poverty in Detroit, Michigan and a graduate of Yale University and the University of Michigan Medical School, Carson is the author of numerous books on his medical career and political stances, and was the subject of a television drama series about his life story in 2009.

Upon delivering a widely publicized speech at the 2013 National Prayer Breakfast, Carson became a popular conservative figure in political media for his views on social and political issues.[2] On May 4, 2015, Carson announced he was running for the Republican nomination in the 2016 presidential election at a rally in his hometown of Detroit.[

 

[VeraBad]

Unemployment number is 5%.

Pretty good.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

You haven't "ran" doodley.

you are not the sharpest tool in the shed huh?

 

[Sean Renaud]

You do get that a Gen. offered to get him in and he decided not to pursue right?

I mean, sure the Gen. didnt have a scholship in his back pocket but he certainly but his word was certainly as good as...

Dr Carson was the top ROTC student in the City of Detroit. In that role he was invited to meet General Westmoreland. He believes it was at a banquet. He can’t remember with specificity their brief conversation but it centered around Dr. Carson’s performance as ROTC City Executive Officer.


He was introduced to folks from West Point by his ROTC Supervisors. They told him they could help him get an appointment based on his grades and performance in ROTC. He considered it but in the end did not seek admission. There are “Service Connected” nominations for stellar High School ROTC appointments. Again he was the top ROTC student in Detroit. I would argue strongly that an Appointment is indeed an amazing full scholarship. Having ran several Congressional Offices I am very familiar with the Nomination process.

^^^ See this is where you can see that people on Lit (mostly Litcons but we all do it occasionally) are so eager to fight they don't read. I support Carson and VatAss comes at ME like I'm not on his side.

What are your views on pyramids? I've crawled through a pyramid. They're not for grain.

They don't matter to the conversation at hand.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

^^^ See this is where you can see that people on Lit (mostly Litcons but we all do it occasionally) are so eager to fight they don't read. I support Carson and VatAss comes at ME like I'm not on his side.



They don't matter to the conversation at hand.

Not coming after you at all.More so the thread starting tard. I personally don't support Carson. But to see idiots to try to spin this the way they are is amusing....

 

[Sean Renaud]

You quoted me, forgive me for thinking that quoting me and asking if I realize something sounds confrontational. Because the gist of my statement was if a General says he'll get me in and I remember twenty years down the line him saying he'd get me a scholarship that I'm not lying. I simply forgot the exact wording.

 

[Wrong Element]

You do get that a Gen. offered to get him in and he decided not to pursue right?

I mean, sure the Gen. didnt have a scholship in his back pocket but he certainly but his word was certainly as good as...

Dr Carson was the top ROTC student in the City of Detroit. In that role he was invited to meet General Westmoreland. He believes it was at a banquet. He can’t remember with specificity their brief conversation but it centered around Dr. Carson’s performance as ROTC City Executive Officer.


He was introduced to folks from West Point by his ROTC Supervisors. They told him they could help him get an appointment based on his grades and performance in ROTC. He considered it but in the end did not seek admission. There are “Service Connected” nominations for stellar High School ROTC appointments. Again he was the top ROTC student in Detroit. I would argue strongly that an Appointment is indeed an amazing full scholarship. Having ran several Congressional Offices I am very familiar with the Nomination process.

Did Westmoreland have the pull to get someone admitted to West Point without going through the usual channels?

The most charitable reading of this story goes something like this:

1. Carson receives some sort of honor based on his ROTC status.
2. In the process, he gets to meet Westmoreland at an award ceremony.
3. Carson has a brief chat with the general, at which point Westmoreland starts talking up West Point.
4. During this conversation, Westmoreland makes sure to tell Carson that if you're admitted to West Point, Uncle Sam pays for your education.
5. Carson somehow confuses this with being told he was all but admitted right then and there.


But that is NOT the same thing as "being offered a full scholarship," which could not have happened to someone who wasn't first admitted, and isn't even something that the Academy offers above and beyond what any admitted cadet would receive. Also, the language in the book seems to imply that the scholarship offer was a signal that Carson was an especially prized catch, rather than being the exact same deal any potential admittee would get.

I agree with Sean: why does Carson have this need to embellish what was already a very interesting and accomplished life story?

 

[CNYCarol]

Actually from what I read, General Westmoreland did encourage Dr Carson to apply for West Point. Dr Carson declined the invitation, as he was looking forward to a career in medicine.

This story is obviously BS in that there are NO scholarships to West Point, Annapolis or the Air Farce Academy.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Did Westmoreland have the pull to get someone admitted to West Point without going through the usual channels?

The most charitable reading of this story goes something like this:

1. Carson receives some sort of honor based on his ROTC status.
2. In the process, he gets to meet Westmoreland at an award ceremony.
3. Carson has a brief chat with the general, at which point Westmoreland starts talking up West Point.
4. During this conversation, Westmoreland makes sure to tell Carson that if you're admitted to West Point, Uncle Sam pays for your education.
5. Carson somehow confuses this with being told he was all but admitted right then and there.


But that is NOT the same thing as "being offered a full scholarship," which could not have happened to someone who wasn't first admitted, and isn't even something that the Academy offers above and beyond what any admitted cadet would receive. Also, the language in the book seems to imply that the scholarship offer was a signal that Carson was an especially prized catch, rather than being the exact same deal any potential admittee would get.

I agree with Sean: why does Carson have this need to embellish what was already a very interesting and accomplished life story?

Bottom line is Carson never said he was admitted or applied....and yes that particular Gen. would have the authority to offer a full ride....

If you can not admit this whole story is lies and bullshit from Politioco you are as useless as you C&P commentaries.....

 

[Sean Renaud]

Except I am easily able to accept that a 17/18 year old boy had a Viet Nam general telling him "Come to West Point and don't worry about the money" could morph into "I got a full scholarship" over twenty one years. Is anybody really going to pretend that they don't have a single thing that happened to them in High School that didn't go down exactly how you remember it?

I'm not a Carson supporter at all, this just seems like a silly thing to focus on. Maybe that part where he tried to stab a friend or went after his mother with a hammer? Cus I don't have anger issues (I have not backing down issues. They are different!) but the reason I haven't gotten into any fights as an adult has more to do with adults just don't start shit like kids do. I have no doubt that if someone shoved me today I might very well throw down. I'm not sure I want someone who once went after blood with a weapon near nukes and a military.

Putin: Look at you, silly pussy American. I wrestle bears for fun!
Carson: I think you should wrestle a SEAL!

 

[RobDownSouth]

NOW we go to school.....

You do get that a Gen. offered to get him in and he decided not to pursue right?

I mean, sure the Gen. didnt have a scholship in his back pocket but he certainly but his word was certainly as good as...

Dr Carson was the top ROTC student in the City of Detroit. In that role he was invited to meet General Westmoreland. He believes it was at a banquet. He can’t remember with specificity their brief conversation but it centered around Dr. Carson’s performance as ROTC City Executive Officer.


He was introduced to folks from West Point by his ROTC Supervisors. They told him they could help him get an appointment based on his grades and performance in ROTC. He considered it but in the end did not seek admission. There are “Service Connected” nominations for stellar High School ROTC appointments. Again he was the top ROTC student in Detroit. I would argue strongly that an Appointment is indeed an amazing full scholarship. Having ran several Congressional Offices I am very familiar with the Nomination process.

Wrong again, you stupid son of a whore.

To get into West Point, you need a nomination (unless you come from a military family or are active duty enlisted, neither of which applies to "Doctor" Carlson)

Nominations are doled out on an annual basis to Congressmen, the Vice President, a couple of Puerto Rican muckety-mucks, and the Secretary of the Army. Each of the above gets ten, count 'em ten nominations to make.

All the recommendations from four star Generals and ROTC supervisors don't mean shit. West Point nominations are huge perks, mainly for Congressmen to dole out as patronage.

Here's the link to educate your ignorant ass.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Bottom line is Carson never said he was admitted or applied....and yes that particular Gen. would have the authority to offer a full ride....

If you can not admit this whole story is lies and bullshit from Politioco you are as useless as you C&P commentaries.....

It's not lies and bullshit. I quoted the line in his story. I think its an easy mistake to have made on Carson's part (as you seem to back up earlier) but none of this points to Politico lying. Now is this something beyond stupid to bring up? YES. YES IT IS. But I also know what church Obama went to, the name of his preacher for years, that he was raised by his grandmother and spent some of his formative years in Indonesia. I know he didn't know his father (neither did Carson but I know that from his book not the media coverage) and the exactly location of his birth. So. . . lets not pretend the media is picking on Carson either.

Why is Doctor in quotes. There is no debate that the man is a brilliant surgeon with all the qualifications and respect that should come with it.

 

[sr71plt]

Did Westmoreland have the pull to get someone admitted to West Point without going through the usual channels?

Where do you get the "without going through the usual channels" crap? (See, this is how people start going off the rails.)

As I've posted, congressmen have quotas (they can have up to five nominated students at West Point at any given time and are encouraged to fill their quota--that's 2,675 slots at any given moment). They consult with military folks at Westmoreland's level in doing this. Where do you get that Westmoreland was outside usual channels in endorsing--or even offering--someone a nomination to West Point?

Go after Carson for his nutty positions. Don't muddy the waters with mud.

 

[phrodeau]

Benny probably knew that he couldn't stick to the Cadet Honor Code. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadet_Honor_Code

"A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do."

 

[Adre]

Wrong again, you stupid son of a whore.

To get into West Point, you need a nomination (unless you come from a military family or are active duty enlisted, neither of which applies to "Doctor" Carlson)

Nominations are doled out on an annual basis to Congressmen, the Vice President, a couple of Puerto Rican muckety-mucks, and the Secretary of the Army. Each of the above gets ten, count 'em ten nominations to make.

All the recommendations from four star Generals and ROTC supervisors don't mean shit. West Point nominations are huge perks, mainly for Congressmen to dole out as patronage.

Here's the link to educate your ignorant ass.

Rob comes back from sabbatical and is already demanding facts, correct statements, and general adherence to something resembling truth. You're going to ruin it for everybody, man.

 

[Wrong Element]

Except I am easily able to accept that a 17/18 year old boy had a Viet Nam general telling him "Come to West Point and don't worry about the money" could morph into "I got a full scholarship" over twenty one years. Is anybody really going to pretend that they don't have a single thing that happened to them in High School that didn't go down exactly how you remember it?

You'd have to be a truly amazing student with multiple lucrative offers to not have a firm memory of every school that offered you a scholarship.

I got a letter from West Point based on some good standardized test scores -- nothing special, the same letter they sent to tens of thousands, I am sure. But I was never under the impression that meant I was a sure thing to be admitted. The main things that separate Carson's experience from mine is he was in ROTC and he met one of the worst generals in American history. But neither of us were all that close to getting into West Point.

 

[Wrong Element]

Where do you get the "without going through the usual channels" crap? (See, this is how people start going off the rails.)

As I've posted, congressmen have quotas (they can have up to five nominated students at West Point at any given time and are encouraged to fill their quota--that's 535 slots). They consult with military folks at Westmoreland's level in doing this. Where do you get that Westmoreland was outside usual channels in endorsing--or even offering--someone a nomination to West Point?

Go after Carson for his nutty positions. Don't muddy the waters with mud.

Next time you quote me, you might want to also read the relevant part of the post that I quoted:

You do get that a Gen. offered to get him in and he decided not to pursue right?

I mean, sure the Gen. didnt have a scholship in his back pocket but he certainly but his word was certainly as good as...

 

[sr71plt]

He seems oblivious to the fact that congressmen do not make up their appointments out of thin air. They consult with experienced recruiters, just like they do in professional sports. People like General Westmoreland. Sometimes they let their consultants carry the water bucket for them.

For all the yammering that goes on on this porn board political forum about the workings of the U.S. government, there seem to be damn few posters who have an inkling how the government actually works.

Again, go after Carson on his nutty positions, not on maybes (because you don't know how the system works).

 

[sr71plt]

Next time you quote me, you might want to also read the relevant part of the post that I quoted:

What makes you think that someone with Westmoreland's pull doesn't have a scholarship to West Point (which isn't a big deal; West Point covers most of the bill for everyone going to West Point) in his back pocket?

Repeating that there are a whole lot of folks thinking that they know how the U.S. government works a whole lot better than they actually do.

 

[The_Trouvere]

West Point said he never applied.

If Bernie Sanders made a claim like that the Republican Hate Machine would be in high dudgeon.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Wrong again, you stupid son of a whore.

To get into West Point, you need a nomination (unless you come from a military family or are active duty enlisted, neither of which applies to "Doctor" Carlson)

Nominations are doled out on an annual basis to Congressmen, the Vice President, a couple of Puerto Rican muckety-mucks, and the Secretary of the Army. Each of the above gets ten, count 'em ten nominations to make.

All the recommendations from four star Generals and ROTC supervisors don't mean shit. West Point nominations are huge perks, mainly for Congressmen to dole out as patronage.

Here's the link to educate your ignorant ass.

Look the racist shit stain is back. Welcome back fat boy!!!!!

Get the restraining order taking care of? Allowed to see your kids again?

Are you suggesting congressmen do not often "give" their nominations to high ranking military personal to dole out???

It is ok...I will wait

 

[phrodeau]

I can sleep better knowing that if anyone wants a career as a military officer, all they have to do is kiss a few asses.

Hoo-ah!

 

[VaticanAssassin]

I can sleep better knowing that if anyone wants a career as a military officer, all they have to do is kiss a few asses.

Hoo-ah!

Yep that's it.

Being a top ROTC cadet in the state with superior grades means nothing....

Are you seriously that stupid?

 

[RobDownSouth]

Look the racist shit stain is back. Welcome back fat boy!!!!!

Get the restraining order taking care of? Allowed to see your kids again?

Are you suggesting congressmen do not often "give" their nominations to high ranking military personal to dole out???

It is ok...I will wait

I'm not "suggesting" it, I am telling you that.

The military doesn't give a single shit about congressional nominations. Period.
Why? Because they have their own fast-track for their own kids, and certain active duty enlisted folks. That's their playground, and they don't venture outside of it. Why should they? None of them are going to venture "outside the lines" and go to bat for some insufferable civilian like Carson.

I hope this lessens your ignorance somewhat, but I doubt it will.