Code of Conduct ?

[Bamagan]

I'm waiting for someone to write some non-consensual pickle counting porn

Suggested title: "How Many Gherkins Can Fit in My Hole?"

 

[cw5523729]

Suggested title: "How Many Gherkins Can Fit in My Hole?"

It's NC. So it'd have to be "how many gherkins can you fit in my hole against my will?"

 

[Kelliezgirl]

It's NC. So it'd have to be "how many gherkins can you fit in my hole against my will?"

Unless it's the gherkins who aren't consenting...

 

[EmilyMiller]

Google's AI suggests you shouldn't masturbate with a pickle

View attachment 2575204

Imagine 50 years ago if you told someone that one day, we'll all have access to the sum knowledge on all human existence and people will instead ask questions like that.

Zucchini

 

[cw5523729]

Zucchini

Unless it's the gherkins who aren't consenting...

Did you get the zucchini's consent first @EmilyMiller?

 

[EmilyMiller]

Did you get the zucchini's consent first @EmilyMiller?

I’m actually kinda allergic to zucchini. I wear disposable gloves when preparing them (for cooking, people ).

 

[cw5523729]

I’m actually kinda allergic to zucchini. I wear disposable gloves when preparing them (for cooking, people ).

Safety first, that's very sensible and proactive.

 

[cw5523729]

I’m actually kinda allergic to zucchini. I wear disposable gloves when preparing them (for cooking, people ).

On a serious note - I've never heard of a zucchini allergy. Is it only zucchini or other veggies in the family like squash?

 

[EmilyMiller]

Safety first, that's very sensible and proactive.

I am generally atopic (asthma, eczema, allergies etc.)

 

[EmilyMiller]

On a serious note - I've never heard of a zucchini allergy. Is it only zucchini or other veggies in the family like squash?

Pumpkins as well. It’s not uncommon.

According to Google:

Squash dermatitis is a skin irritation caused by contact with certain types of squash, such as butternut squash, pumpkin, and zucchini. It is a type of contact dermatitis, an allergic reaction that occurs when the skin comes into contact with an irritant.

 

[Bramblethorn]

You know, I've always had a problem with the phrasing in that line. "Sexual assault is a-ok just so long as she enjoys it."

To my ear, that comes across as way worse than just allowing NC and not passing judgement on it.

Some history.

Back in the 1990s, Usenet was the place to go for written smut. Eventually it got swamped by spammers and sites like Literotica emerged to replace it.

One of the reasons Usenet got swamped was because it was mostly unmoderated. Also, governments hadn't yet taken an interest in restricting online content the way they do today. People posted everything, and I mean EVERYTHING there. Stuff that today would get a website taken down and its owner jailed for obscenity. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.

There was a LOT of NC erotica. Very little of it was a thoughtful attempt to explore the realities of sexual assault. Mostly it was flat-out rape porn written by and for guys who got off on the idea of fucking women up.

Some of the kinds of stories one could encounter in those days:
Famous named celebrity slowly hanged for infidelity
Teacher gang-raped by her class
Women raped by animals
Brother and sister fuck, have kids, fuck the kids before they're old enough to walk
Rape and murder of children
Woman tortured to death with power tools
Women kidnapped and tortured into sex slavery
Women placed in predicaments that forced them to choose between different forms of mutilation

(It wasn't always women/girls being victimised, but usually it was.)

If one's thinking about content moderation in terms of "ravishment fantasy where woman comes to love it" vs. "feminist take that treats rape in a realistic manner that acknowledges the trauma rape causes", then yeah, the Lit rule is worse than nothing.

But back in the day, it was more about "ravishment fantasy where woman comes to love it" vs. "misogynist take that acknowledges and delights in the trauma rape causes". In that context the "woman must enjoy it" rule isn't about perpetuating "rape's not that bad" myths, it's about restricting "how bad can we make it?" torture-snuff-porn.

Early Lit reflected the norms of Usenet. If you look at site archives, in the very early days of Lit there was a link to "extreme stories" hosted on a separate site, which AFAICT was content similar to what I described above. But it was pretty soon deleted - for whatever reason, L&M decided not to have Lit associated with that kind of content - and I would interpret the "victim must enjoy it" rule as being directed against that kind of content.

Yes, if taken literally it would seem to say that you can't write a story from the POV of a survivor who did not "learn to enjoy it". But I'm not sure that was ever the intent of that rule, nor whether it's been enforced that way.

 

[cw5523729]

Yes, if taken literally it would seem to say that you can't write a story from the POV of a survivor who did not "learn to enjoy it". But I'm not sure that was ever the intent of that rule, nor whether it's been enforced that way.

I'd like to think it wasn't intended that way - somewhere in here I said I give them the benefit of the doubt that it's just a poor choice of wording. But it still doesn't change the fact that - at least according to the TOS - the rape porn story is suddenly acceptable if the girl enjoys it later. Which is just: wow

 

[MillieDynamite]

No, I Spit on Your Grave, type of revenge allowed. Man, when she came, he went all over the place.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I think she has to get off during the rape (which does actually happen, but it isn't a pleasant thing for the woman; it heaps shame on top of humiliation)

I'd like to think it wasn't intended that way - somewhere in here I said I give them the benefit of the doubt that it's just a poor choice of wording. But it still doesn't change the fact that - at least according to the TOS - the rape porn story is suddenly acceptable if the girl enjoys it later. Which is just: wow

 

[cw5523729]

I think she has to get off during the rape (which does actually happen, but it isn't a pleasant thing for the woman; it heaps shame on top of humiliation)

@EmilyMiller addressed that earlier in this thread

 

[MillieDynamite]

I'm a late cummer to the thread (and sometimes jus' a late cummer, ask Jo, no don't).

@EmilyMiller addressed that earlier in this thread

 

[cw5523729]

I'm a late cummer to the thread (and sometimes jus' a late cummer, ask Jo, no don't).

It was easy to miss - just follow Emily's zucchini masturbation story and take a hard left.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Fixed the above for you.

I chose my words and I stand by the words I chose.

Specifically, I chose language that characterises the story, not its author. If you want to opine that everybody who writes/reads ravishment fantasy is a non-decent person, and that everybody who writes "rape is bad" stories is a decent person, please post that as your own opinion instead of attaching it to mine.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I think she has to get off during the rape (which does actually happen, but it isn't a pleasant thing for the woman; it heaps shame on top of humiliation)

‘Get off’ here is a loaded term. It’s perfectly possible for a woman to orgasm during a rape, but ‘get off’ might be taken as someone enjoying what is happening. Some women experience shame that they orgasmed during a traumatic experience. But it’s an autonomic thing. It’s just one more element of how sexual assault destroys lives.

 

[cw5523729]

‘Get off’ here is a loaded term. It’s perfectly possible for a woman to orgasm during a rape, but ‘get off’ might be taken as someone enjoying what is happening. Some women experience shame that they orgasmed during a traumatic experience. But it’s an autonomic thing. It’s just one more element of how sexual assault destroys lives.

Technically the TOS specify "enjoyment" so I guess an orgasm doesn't qualify by itself

 

[MillieDynamite]

Well, yes, I believe the rule of "getting something out of the rape" does mean she must enjoy it or get revenge.

‘Get off’ here is a loaded term. It’s perfectly possible for a woman to orgasm during a rape, but ‘get off’ might be taken as someone enjoying what is happening. Some women experience shame that they orgasmed during a traumatic experience. But it’s an autonomic thing. It’s just one more element of how sexual assault destroys lives.

 

[FrancesScott]

I chose my words and I stand by the words I chose.

Specifically, I chose language that characterises the story, not its author. If you want to opine that everybody who writes/reads ravishment fantasy is a non-decent person, and that everybody who writes "rape is bad" stories is a decent person, please post that as your own opinion instead of attaching it to mine.

I deleted my post at your request.

I maintain characterizing rape as leading to trauma as a feminist approach to writing is a very strange thing to say. I’d say realist.

 

[MillieDynamite]

So, I'm completely lost as to what either of you are saying. To be honest and humble (one out of two ain't bad), I'm against censorship.

 

[StillStunned]

I maintain characterizing rape as leading to trauma as a feminist approach to writing is a very strange thing to say. I’d say realist.

I'd say it should be the default. With everything that we know about PTSD - even someone as far removed from it as me - it seems that ignoring or denying rape trauma should require some active handwaving by the writer. You might as well describe a character having their hand cut off, but still being able to play the guitar.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I deleted my post at your request.

I maintain characterizing rape as leading to trauma as a feminist approach to writing is a very strange thing to say.

Okay, but that's not what I said.

If I refer to "brown dogs", do you interpret that as an assertion that all dogs are brown?

I’d say realist.

Plenty of the torture-porn stories I referred to also strove for realism.