Demonizing sex workers

[MelissaBaby]

Speaking for myself, I thought we were talking about prostitution specifically. I don't think foot modeling is likely to have the same level of negative reaction. A stripper is somewhere in the middle. But sex with other people seems like a bright line many spouses would not accept, even if they were fine with stripping or phone sex or whatever. But I think all levels have potential for interesting effects on relationships and emotions of partners.

To be blunt, there are a lot of men out there who drop any objection to their women turning tricks when the money starts paying for their booze and dope.

 

[EmilyMiller]

But I'm sure the story will be an insightful and nuanced look at such a situation in action!

That or a random stroker. Or both .

Em

 

[AchtungNight]

At least two of the Earp brothers married practicing prostitutes. I think the common law wife that Wyatt Earp lived with at the time of OK Coral was, at the very least, a former prostitute. But that was then, and this is now. First, prostitution wasn't illegal at that time. Second, it isn't the glamorous life portrayed in movies. Most women in the profession are controlled by a pimp. It isn't a high-paying job in this country.

Let’s not forget their buddy Doc Holliday was also with a prostitute. Big Nose Kate, if I recall.

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

Let’s not forget their buddy Doc Holliday was also with a prostitute. Big Nose Kate, if I recall.

You recall correctly. She was also the name sack of the unseen woman in the title of John Wayne movie The Sons of Katie Elder.

 

[Djmac1031]

@EmilyMiller
Let's be honest: the only reason readers are demonizing YOUR sex worker is because of your reveal at the ending that she's married and has a child.

My latest story, One Night Of Sindi, is also about a sex worker.

Just published today and is doing quite well in views, ratings and comments.

And not ONE reader has complained she's a sex worker.

Unlike you, I revealed next to nothing about her back story other than that she's not a drug addict or poor, unfortunate soul forced into a life of prostitution because of *insert trope negative experience here.*

So why the negativity towards yours while mine gets a pass?

Because God forbid a sex worker can also have a normal, happy, healthy relationship.

God forbid you made her a human being with feelings and emotions and...holy shit, a family that loves her???

 

[gunhilltrain]

Bottom line, this happens even outside of LW. Even in Romance A Half-Decent Performance - "Never marry a stripper." I also had a memorable rant about His Sister in his Lap, though it seems to have gone now - basically incest good, lap-dancing sisters bad.


I saw this earlier today, didn't have time to read it, but my brain just did not process the title - 'Surely Gunhill means College Hooking Up Memories, boy is his face going to be red when he realizes he screwed up in the title' - nope, the other type of hooking.

Part 2 is almost completed and should be posted in a couple of weeks.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

I did not write about that particular situation, but I covered similar issues in The Gold Dollar Girls. (Strippers, not prostitutes).

You did, and it's one of the reasons I loved those stories! Was it Rhonda/Roxy with the guy in her apartment complex?

I don't want to make assumptions about where anyone is coming from, but I have some sense of different class perspectives in this discussion. I've known a fair number of sex workers, dancers, prostitutes, sugar babies, etc. It's not unusual for sex workers to be married to a spouse who has full knowledge and approval of their occupation. Generally, in my experience, they were people from disadvantaged backgrounds, who set aside any moral objections they might have held in order to take advantage of one of the few economic opportunities that were available to them.

Another salient difference is how long you've been in the country. I'm second-generation, so we were pretty poor growing up. We shared a two-bedroom with another family, my father slept in a supply closet between shifts because he was working doubles five days a week, we kids did piece-work at the kitchen table, etc. You've heard this story before.

But they wouldn't have let us into the country without marketable skills (and typically a job offer). So however arduous our opportunities may be, it's not the case that we don't have them.

I think in the minds of people like me, the stereotypical prostitute is someone who does it for a few years while saving the money or sending it home. It's not typical for these people to date and marry here because the plan is always to go back home. Or because, frankly, they've been trafficked and they're not allowed to talk to anyone. That happens too, sometimes. Maybe a lot. I don't know.

To be blunt, there are a lot of men out there who drop any objection to their women turning tricks when the money starts paying for their booze and dope.

I can't tell if this is a addiction situation or just like, "Well, I don't approve, but, hey, free beer!"

Because...in the "I like beer!" case....we can agree these are bad people, right?

 

[AchtungNight]

You recall correctly. She was also the name sack of the unseen woman in the title of John Wayne movie The Sons of Katie Elder.

Elder. Nice name.

 

[CyranoJ]

Men who degrade strippers, porn stars, escorts, Only fan women etc...seem to overlook a very important fact

Those women wouldn't be making money selling sex if there weren't MEN paying for it.

See, here's your problem. You're just an idiot. You don't know anything and you're too fucking arrogant to learn.

You've heard people say things like this and you vaguely know that they sound good -- like, we could all agree with these above two statements, for the most part -- but you don't actually know anything about why people say them. And when you have to reach into your own non-thoughts, what results is a slurry of word salad like this:

There are bad in both genders, problem is its always accepted for the men to be bad, but when a woman is reeeeeeeeeeee . . . When a female teacher is caught with a male student she should be crucified, when a male teacher is caught, well the little slut was leading him on . . . I occasionally watch a YT channel about [slurry of incoherent commentary follows] . . . Amber Heard's career is over . . . only the women are bad . . .

And all of this is just the incoherent spew of a non-thinker who is striking a posture, because they're not intelligent or informed enough to have actual politics. It's all wrong from multiple angles because you're just serving up random shit you've heard with no idea how anything ties into anything else, and with no knowledge at all about whether anything you're saying is actually true. Even people who should "support" you are confused, because you're completely incompetent at any form of social commentary, which requires actual research and knowing something instead of just adopting a schtick and striking a posture.

Your problem is not "your gender." You don't fucking know anything about gender, or gender studies, or anything else even vaguely related to either one. Your problem is you. You just don't know anything, and you always try to pretend that you do, and it always goes horribly wrong b/c you refuse to learn anything about anything at all. It's like I told you: you should have started learning from Teller a long, long time ago.

 

[alohadave]

No, that movie is about him pulling her out of her sex work job, not marrying her while she continues to see clients...

The original script was much different and wasn't the HAE ending that the movie was.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Let’s not forget their buddy Doc Holliday was also with a prostitute. Big Nose Kate, if I recall.

Great pub quiz question...

The prostitute companion of Doc Holliday was known as Big What Kate?

 

[Djmac1031]

I just realized who started this thread...now its even more hilarious

Really? Why so, @lovecraft68 ?

Please, explain to us simple folk what you find so humorous?

 

[Rollinbones]

Please don’t put a creative work about sex workers in lw. It deserves reading by people with emotive function and intellectual reasoning. Scores be damned, people should read that and no one goes to the dark place for reads

 

[Bramblethorn]

I think it's easy for us, inside this odd kinky space, to forget that much of the outside world thinks what WE do here is perverted and wrong. In the USA, sex is still a very weird subject for people to talk about rationally. Somewhat surprisingly (to me), there still doesn't seem to be any appreciable political pressure to ease up legal restrictions on prostitution. It's still generally illegal and it looks like it will continue to be. I've always been in favor of decriminalization, but I don't know many people who advocate that position.

Here in Australia, my state is about to change from legalisation (permitted but only under specific conditions with a lot of special regulations) to decrim (most or all SW-specific regs repealed, sex work subject to the same rules as any other business). I've been pleasantly surprised by how little fuss there's been about it.

Granted, our neighbours to the north went decrim decades ago, and the world didn't end, but that wouldn't have stopped the opposition party here from campaigning hard on it if they thought there were votes in opposing it.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Personally? My hat is off to all sex workers of whatever gender or non-gender they choose. Most of the folks I've met in that line of work are the most giving and accepting people I know. In my world, they deserve more rights and respect than charlatans who call themselves life coaches. I could probably list a half dozen other pseudo-professions, too. (Chiropractors, anyone?) At least most prostitutes provide a release for your simoleons.

Their willingness to provide that level of intimacy and access to their bodies to most customers is a remarkable trait. Are they assuming a certain level of personal risk? Of course, but how does it compare to working in a high-risk job where you're literally risking your life every day? #1 most dangerous job in America? Being a logger - and they only average less than $50k per year.

 

[AchtungNight]

Personally? My hat is off to all sex workers of whatever gender or non-gender they choose. Most of the folks I've met in that line of work are the most giving and accepting people I know. In my world, they deserve more rights and respect than charlatans who call themselves life coaches. I could probably list a half dozen other pseudo-professions, too. (Chiropractors, anyone?) At least most prostitutes provide a release for your simoleons.

Their willingness to provide that level of intimacy and access to their bodies to most customers is a remarkable trait. Are they assuming a certain level of personal risk? Of course, but how does it compare to working in a high-risk job where you're literally risking your life every day? #1 most dangerous job in America? Being a logger - and they only average less than $50k per year.

I work with numerous high health risk chemicals in my work. Silane is one of them. Imagine a real life odorless colorless poisonous gas. Various acids are also in play. I make less than $60k a year and write sex stories I put out for free as anxiety therapy. If I knew any safe skilled sex workers in my area I’d love to visit them.

 

[EroticCupcake]

I had a moment when I found some hidden gender bias in myself. I was out with someone whose significant other was incredibly attractive and also cool as shit. We were at a gas station together, and she started chatting up the miserable attendant as if she saw him as real person.

Something about that felt off. I found out later she was a sex worker and it "made sense." Part of her profession was finding empathy with people who were less attractive than she is.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Personally? My hat is off to all sex workers of whatever gender or non-gender they choose. Most of the folks I've met in that line of work are the most giving and accepting people I know. In my world, they deserve more rights and respect than charlatans who call themselves life coaches. I could probably list a half dozen other pseudo-professions, too. (Chiropractors, anyone?) At least most prostitutes provide a release for your simoleons.

Their willingness to provide that level of intimacy and access to their bodies to most customers is a remarkable trait. Are they assuming a certain level of personal risk? Of course, but how does it compare to working in a high-risk job where you're literally risking your life every day? #1 most dangerous job in America? Being a logger - and they only average less than $50k per year.

Every time this subject comes up, I share this passage from The Gold Dollar Girls. It'd definitely a case of the character expressing the opinion of the author.

Clover (Charlene) and her lawyer, after her child custody hearing:

"You don't have a very good opinion of sex workers, do you?" Charlene asked.

"Well, my job would be easier if you were a waitress or a secretary," Bridget said.

"I get that. But you, personally. I kind of feel like you look down on me."

Bridget shook her head. "Honestly, I don't. You do what you have to do. But in a general sense, yes, I have a problem with women selling their bodies for money."

"Uh huh. Well, you know what? My Dad worked his whole life down at the old stamping plant. Eight hours a day, punching holes in sheets of metal. I remember, when I was just a little girl, asking him why he only had eight fingers. So, you know, maybe we have different ideas of what it means for a person to sell their bodies."

 

[MelissaBaby]

You did, and it's one of the reasons I loved those stories! Was it Rhonda/Roxy with the guy in her apartment complex?

Yes, and as she explains it, when she would date someone new, she would tell them right up front that she was a stripper, to save time and trouble. In her mind, there were three ways they react; by dumping you as fast as they could, by treating you entirely as a sex object, or by trying to white knight you and save you from your unsavory lifestyle. But she still hoped she'd find for that one right guy.

That's not entirely my own opinion. Sex workers can have successful relationships. It's difficult, but aren't they all?

 

[AchtungNight]

Yes, and as she explains it, when she would date someone new, she would tell them right up front that she was a stripper, to save time and trouble. In her mind, there were three ways they react; by dumping you as fast as they could, by treating you entirely as a sex object, or by trying to white knight you and save you from your unsavory lifestyle. But she still hoped she'd find for that one right guy.

That's not entirely my own opinion. Sex workers can have successful relationships. It's difficult, but aren't they all?

I dated a girl in college who told men up from that she was a promiscuous bisexual and intended to stay that way. If they responded with any of the negative attitudes you mention, she would gladly leave them asap. I ended up adopting the same attitude as a straight swinger. It’s served me well thus far.

 

[MrPixel]

I dated a girl in college who told men up front that she was a promiscuous bisexual and intended to stay that way. ...

A/k/a "unicorn".

 

[lovecraft68]

Sex workers are often more than sex. Many escorts will tell you that they have regulars who come over and spend a good part of the time just talking about life in general. They're lonely and want company and not just to get off.

I'm no fan of real life adultery, but once heard a former escort say that over the years a few of her clients were married, and the wife couldn't perform for physical reasons or there were other serious issues. Rather than an affair, rather than a chancy one nighter they'd come see her once every so often just to get rid of the need. Still not ethical in my opinion, but when she spun it that way and said she felt in a way they helped some toubled marriages it made a weird form of sense.

Back to my first some ways escorts are like bartenders, they lend an ear, give advice, and are a form of therapist just by listening to someone who needs to talk.

But I'm straying away from pure sex talk and whatever else and getting into humanizing them and their clients.

Boo you, LC, this is a porn site full of closet, and some not so closet misogynists. Keep your white knight bs to yourself simp.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

I share this passage from The Gold Dollar Girls. It'd definitely a case of the character expressing the opinion of the author.

I really liked that passage.

My father is on disability now. RSI from a machine he cranked by hand for thirty years. They motorized the machine a while ago, but using the motor was (or at least was perceived to be) much riskier because most people instinctively stop cranking when their hands get stuck in there and the motor has no such reflex. So he kept cranking it and now he's lost part of the use of his hand anyway. Can't win sometimes.

Oh, and he had an HIV scare too. Needle stick with an HIV+ sample. Spent a while lying in bed with his skin flaking off. Apparently that was a side effect of the PEP they used back then.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

I had a moment when I found some hidden gender bias in myself. I was out with someone whose significant other was incredibly attractive and also cool as shit. We were at a gas station together, and she started chatting up the miserable attendant as if she saw him as real person.

Something about that felt off. I found out later she was a sex worker and it "made sense." Part of her profession was finding empathy with people who were less attractive than she is.

I've heard from different sex workers (in real life and in various interviews) that the secret is to find something hot or interesting about the individual and focus on that. It's true that many of your clients might not have your preferred body shape, eye color, or hairstyle - but they might have a great smile, nice hands, or a wickedly fun sense of humor. That way of thinking works in lots of different ways, too.

While buying some edibles the other day, my budtender was far from what I would normally consider to be attractive. However, she was wearing a t-shirt that read: “Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to get through this thing called Life." It's a great Prince reference, but a wonderful reminder, too. That's when I noticed that she had a pretty smile, nice tits, and I walked thinking, "Yeah, I'd do her." (Not that she had any interest in doing me, mind you, but that wasn't the point of the anecdote.) But, yeah - let's stop demonizing sex workers for doing something you can't or wouldn't do. Most of them are magical people who deserve our respect. The same with some gas station attendants and budtenders, LOL.

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

Elder. Nice name.

They were going to call it, The Son of Katie Olderwoman, but it just didn't have the right zing to it. Katie Elder was her sometime nom de plume, her full name was Mary Katherine Horony Cummings. Yeah, you can have a field day with her last name. and Horony what the fuck is that about?